Here's the thing. I just don't think Hillary gets the issues facing most Americans.

[TDale313]

I admire her for a lot of things, but does she understand or truly care about the middle class squeeze? My sense is no. And wealth inequality is, quite frankly, destroying this country.

She'd certainly be better than Trump or any Republican, but will she do anything to reverse course on 30+ years of Reaganomics? Will she really start to rein in the monied interests that are robbing the vast majority blind? I wish I could say yes. I suspect and fear not.

[monicaangela]

1. Who's to say if she will be better than Trump or any Republican

The things she did as Secretary of State puts her right there in good company with them. Foreign policy is important and you can tell a lot about a person by the way they treat others. She is a corporatist, so are most of the republicans, she won't be any different IMHO.

This is how she reined in the monied interest in Honduras:

teleSUR talked to feminists in Honduras, where the U.S. State Department backed a military coup in 2009, about Hillary Clinton’s so-called feminism.


U.S. Democratic Party presidential hopeful Hillary Clinton has built her campaign around her self-proclaimed dedication to fighting for women’s rights, as well as her superior experience in the realm of foreign policy.

Many feminists have disputed that, and the women on the receiving end of her foreign policy, in particular Latin America, are even less likely to see the former Secretary of State as a champion of their rights.

For Honduran feminist artist Melissa Cardoza, Clinton’s policy in Central America has shown her true colors as an instrument of empire representing patriarchal, not feminist, ideology.

“As is well known, she supported the coup d’etat in my country, which has sunk a very worthy and bleeding land further into abject poverty, violence, and militarism,” Cardoza said of Clinton’s legacy in Honduras. “She is part of those who consider only some lives to be legitimate, obviously not rebel women and women of color that live here and who do not, at least not all, fit in with imperial interests.”

ANALYSIS: Hillary Clinton's Dubious Views on Latin America

Cardoza agreed that Honduran women have suffered gravely from U.S. policies, including those pursued by the State Department under Clnton's watch.

“The current dictatorship under Hernandez is part of her creation,” said Cardoza. “The misery doesn’t just affect women with more brutality, but also our bodies are exposed to the militarist ideology with which they uphold poverty and kill us; to the conservative fundamentalism with which they deny the exercise of our sexual autonomy; and to the possibility of being creative people and not just workers for their factories and way of life.”

Cardoza added that the actions of “Clinton and her white, rich, neoliberal and patriarchal friends” has created a situation in Honduras that has pushed movements to be more radical in their struggles to resist oppression.

http://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/Do-Feminists-Support-Coups-Honduran-Women-on-Hillary-Clinton-20160225-0050.html

[Cheese Sandwich]

5. In some ways she is closer to a Republican

[monicaangela]

7. In many ways

[BernieforPres2016]

12. Other than on a handful of social issues

Like being pro choice, she is a Republican.

[magical thyme]

17. re: pro choice, she's already said she'd be willing to compromise

so she's not really even pro-choice any more.

[onecaliberal]

2. She has NO idea how bad it is. She will never lose her home, her employment, her retirement.

She will never know what it's like for a mother who cannot feed her child, or watch her child die because they didn't have adequate healthcare. It's just beyond the pale what passes for compassion in this country. We've just become a fuck you, I've got mine, kind of place. No one cares that the level of need and suffering is growing exponentially. I'm shocked that we are willing to protect the monied interests rather than care for people. I thought we were democrats, the ones who care about people, but I am learning that a lot of us have much more in common with republicans who want ever more money and power and everything else be damned.

[BernieforPres2016]

15. There isn't a nickel's worth of difference between the 2 parties

other than on a few social issues. On economic issues and foreign policy they've become the same party, because the same 0.1% owns them both.

Let me give you an example. Remember Dick Gephardt, who used to be one of the strongest Democratic politicians with regard to unions and being against trade agreements, was in the House leadership and made a couple of runs for President? Here's a link to what has become of Dick Gephardt since he left the Congress:

http://www.thenation.com/article/dick-gephardts-spectacular-sellout/

<While Gephardt spent most of his twenty-eight years in national Democratic politics quietly promoting and voting with establishment interests, he is best known for his friendship with labor and advocacy for universal healthcare during two presidential runs. In 2003 he harshly condemned corporate crime, which he said “ruined people’s lives for selfishness and greed,” and launched his candidacy claiming, “Every proposal I’m making, every idea I’m advancing has a single, central purpose: to revive a failing economy and give working Americans the help and security they need.” So why, six years later, was he on Capitol Hill representing one of the biggest players in the largest economic crisis since the Great Depression? And further, why was he recently working for Visa to kill credit card reform, helping Peabody Energy stymie climate change legislation and consulting for UnitedHealth Group alongside Tom Daschle to block meaningful healthcare reform?>

Note that Tom Daschle is in there too. And sometimes they lobby side by side with people like Dick Armey.

[onecaliberal]

25. Sad and true. I know both of them are "superdelegates" too.

[Cheese Sandwich]

3. Hillary supported permanent trade with China just to help Walmart

Now all our jobs suck: low pay and no benefits. Thanks Hillary.

[Hoyt]

4. Yet most appear to think she does get their issues. I guess they are all just "dumber" than you.

[Cheese Sandwich]

6. I guess Clinton supporters think they are smarter than everyone else

That's the vibe you're sending off

[Hoyt]

19. No, I think the ultimate arbiters -- voters -- are pulling levers more often for Clinton

and Sanders supporters can't accept it. Reminds me of McGovern, felt the same way at the time -- but I grew up.

[Cheese Sandwich]

22. That's incredibly condescending

"I grew up"

As if disagreeing with Hoyt of DU means you must need to grow up and you haven't thought things through.

People can have different opinions without someone being immature or whatever.

What do you mean by "can't accept it"? You mean we're still campaigning until the election is over? Then you've got a problem with democracy. In fact I'm sure we'll keep campaigning around these same issues even after the election is over. This doesn't end with the election. The movement spilled into this campaign for a minute. The Sanders campaign will end one way or another the movement continues. We disagree with you on some issues.

[renate]

32. very well said

[monicaangela]

9. That sentence doesn't make sense

Are you saying the author of this post is dumb, if not, be careful what you write saying a person is dumber than another person implies the person they are dumber than has to be dumb. I don't think that is what you meant, or was it?

[Hoyt]

20. Nope, I am saying more people have voted for Clinton. If they didn't vote for her because

they think Clinton understands and will address their issues, then they must just be dumb in Sanders's supporters view. Try reading in chunks of information, rather than pointing at each word.

[monicaangela]

31. Uninformed and dumb are two different things

I mostly see Sanders supports say Clinton supporters appear to be uninformed, not dumb. There is a difference.

[TCJ70]

10. You don't have to be dumb to be wrong...

...it's a common misunderstanding people on this board have, though.

[Arazi]

13. It's a common and silly re-frame on this board

[Fumesucker]

14. The first principle is not to fool yourself, and you are the easiest one to fool -Richard Feynman

Smarter people are just better at fooling themselves, they can be soooo convincing.

[Hoyt]

21. The voters are the ultimate arbiters -- and right now more of them think Clinton is the best

candidate. You and I can argue over it, but the one truth is that she has more votes and people will decide who the best candidate is. I thought Sanders was all into "the people" deciding. They are deciding, it's just not going your way so far.

I thought McGovern was the best candidate, but the people of the USA decided the other guy was better. That is called a Democracy.

[TCJ70]

23. That's fine, but what does it have to do...

...with your insinuation that the OP thinks people who disagree with them are "dumb"?

[Cheese Sandwich]

24. The voters are the arbiters of the election, not of what's best for my neighborhood.

NAFTA and TPP and Walmart are not good for my neighborhood and neither is Hillary Clinton.

Everyone decides for themselves.

[Hoyt]

28. I think the majority probably do know better what is best for your neighborhood. Maybe not

better for you. But that is a different matter.

[Cheese Sandwich]

29. All your doing is saying if someone gets more votes then they must be right about issues

Patently ridiculous. Republicans get elected all over the place and they're awful.

[Armstead]

18. Good salesmanship and media silence on issues can work wonders....

.....Including causing smart people to do things with implications they do not realize because they have not been given information.

[Hoyt]

27. I guess in your world, everyone else is uninformed.

[noiretextatique]

26. just snowed by rhertoric, not dumb

and hoping for the prosperity they experienced with clinton 1, when in reality, staying course will provide that. TPP won't either.

[nichomachus]

8. Oh, please

She is one of us. She was dead broke, but then got into the speech making business and was soon able to bank hundreds of millions of dollars and give her daughter a $5,000,000 wedding. Anyone can do it.

So all the rest of us need to do is get some speechifying done, set up a foundation, shake foreign leaders down, and we too can be on Easy Street.

[monicaangela]

11. And like we would do,

she conveniently waited until President Obama helped pay off her campaign debts and made her secretary of state, of course all this happened after she was First Lady. Wow, poor Hillary.

[Smarmie Doofus]

16. Either she doesn't get it, or she doesn't care.

I'm not sure it matters much.

That noted: I don't really know why she would be *expected* to 'get it'.

She's the product of a privileged upbringing in an upper- middle-calss virtually all white suburb.

She spent a few years as first lady of Arkansas. NOT being part of the solution and sidelining --- despite the now famous ligament rupture she endured while climbing the state house flagpole to pull down the Confederate flag in Little Rock. (Or was it to put it UP? Memory betrays me here, I confess.)

And sidelining here and there and here and there as a corporate lawyer, legal tool... and board member... for the most evil of evil.

And, alas. Things have come circle. She's back in an upper middle class , 95 % white, suburban enclave. 20 to 40 million dollars richer for her lifelong efforts. ( I trust even her most demented fans won't mistake this for "growth".)

Where *hopefully* she will live out the rest of her years. Buddah bless her: she's done enough.

Here's the thing: people don't like Clinton. They --- SOME of them, anyway; a lot of them ON THIS BOARD--- like the FANTASY they have about Clinton.

Forgive me for leaving out the racist wars she championed; and the hundreds of thousands dead, wounded, mutilated, displaced and orphaned as a consequence.

Point: it doesn't matter if she "gets it" it not. It matters a WHOLE BUNCH if we can keep her away from the levers of power.

[Arugula Latte]

30. Hillary cares about Hillary, gaining power, gaining money, and pleasing her

Wall St. string pullers.