2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumA disabled Bernie Sanders Supporter raised a good point
on Reddit
The Bill Clinton rally that blocked polls also violated the Americans with Disabilities Act and the mayor authorized it.
To me, this rally violated voting law as I understand it in three ways, but I haven't seen any attention given to my third point here. Can my fellow Sanders supporters help raise awareness for this issue?
There was electioneering inside and outside the poll. This is clear from the videos we've all seen and discussed, no matter what the officials say today. There is video and photographic evidence.
Access to the poll was blocked for voters who wished to enter. This was an inappropriate place for an ex-president to appear on election day. It caused traffic jams and blocked access to the polls and parking lot. This likely disproportionately affected working class voters who could only vote on their lunch hour.
The FEDERAL Americans with Disabilities Act has very strict guidelines for access to the polls. This rally was apparently authorized by Mayor Marty Walsh and he needs to be held accountable for not following federal law for DISABLED access to the polls. People who were there said they had to walk quite a ways past the crowds to get to the polls. The videos fairly clearly show a barricaded parking lot and I believe the anecdotal accounts about voters having to walk past that huge crowd.
I wonder if single-payer healthcare is more important to the elderly and disabled? This is why we have these laws. No class of voter should be unfairly suppressed through such shameful tactics.
I remember when growing up in Republican Orange County, rent-a-cops were posted outside of polling places, intentionally dressed to resemble immigration officials to help scare off the Latino vote. Laws were passed to prevent that. This is the same thing, whether it's suppressing the votes of those who live in this area, or the elderly and disabled. Mayor Walsh should be ashamed.
I reported this ADA violation to the feds and hope they take action before anyone tries this again. I do not know what the penalties are for a mayor who willfully disregards federal ADA guidelines, but that $20 law all y'all like to cite doesn't apply to actually physically blocking access to the polls. This is federal law, not state.
Here are the rather extensive guidelines for access to polls.
http://www.ada.gov/votingprt.pdf
merrily
(45,251 posts)UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)Clinton was just hanging out and not campaigning so I've been told.
merrily
(45,251 posts)had nothing to do with Massachusetts being so close. Obviously, he traveled all the way here NOT to campaign. Anyone with a brain should be able to figure out that much. Right?
Right?
UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)act like I'm not intelligent enough to see through this farce. Be it the Hillary Clinton campaign or their supporters. I'm no rocket scientist or a lawyer, but one does not have to be one to understand what has happened here.
I used to say to our audiences: "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!"
I, Candidate for Governor: And How I Got Licked (1935), ISBN 0-520-08198-6; repr. University of California Press, 1994, p. 109
UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)Nyan
(1,192 posts)But they're willfully blind, as opposed to, say, Trump supporters who are just blind -they don't know any better and never will.
UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)it does no good to avoid the obvious.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)As long as it helps their idol who they have no idea why they support. They have no moral compass. No ethics. AT least the most vocal ones, DU has convinced me of that.
.
Harcourdt Fenton Mud
(29 posts)I have no problem with people using the word blind but I do object to it being used as a synonym for ignorant.
Kokonoe
(2,485 posts)Oilwellian
(12,647 posts)Didn't you know he carries a bullhorn everywhere he goes??? Sheesh. Get with it!. LOL
merrily
(45,251 posts)AzDar
(14,023 posts)JudyM
(29,236 posts)BigBearJohn
(11,410 posts)Dustlawyer
(10,495 posts)This is how Hillary will be as POTUS, she will advance her interests at our expense. We are a necessary evil to have to put up with when she needs our votes, but what we need matters not one whit!
merrily
(45,251 posts)At a minimum, he violated the spirit of it.
Phlem
(6,323 posts)Hope your having a great day merrily.
merrily
(45,251 posts)dlwickham
(3,316 posts)You shouldn't call him sleazy
He had every right to contact the Feds even though the Massachusetts election said that President Clinton didn't violate squat
Goblinmonger
(22,340 posts)FWIW, I was #2
He's handicapped
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1407903
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
This poster knew DAMN WELL That the response was talking about Bill not the disabled person and this childish redirect at the victim here is insulting and gross.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Mar 3, 2016, 08:29 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: What the alerter said.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Oh, lord. I'm a Sanders' supporter, but this is just a ridiculous alert.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: So what?
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
dlwickham
(3,316 posts)As soon as my check from the Clinton campaign clears I'll send a few bucks your way
merrily
(45,251 posts)dlwickham
(3,316 posts)If that makes sense
merrily
(45,251 posts)Generally, if you've posted on the thread, you don't get called to jury.
dlwickham
(3,316 posts)My bad
jillan
(39,451 posts)why I started following Bernie years ago was because he never failed to mention people with disabilities (he has changed it now on the campaign trail to disabled vets) but as a mom of a special needs girl, it always meant so much to me that he remembered people like my daughter.
It should be reported but it needs to be by someone that was there & I bet the ADA would take a look at it.
BigBearJohn
(11,410 posts)Rebkeh
(2,450 posts)Somewhat, but medicaid/medicare expansion is much more important. Especially if they live in a conservative state that turned down Obamacare or are otherwise trying to cut medicare and medicaid. My state flatly refuses to expand medicaid. They rejected the ACA outright and will not budge, even though with Obamacare they could get the expansion essentially free for, I think, ten years or something like that.
appalachiablue
(41,131 posts)Sorry to hear that about Orange Co. Conservative lawyer and later SCOTUS Chief William Rehnquist used to stand out side Arizona polling places to intimidate Latinos. He was in private practice in Phoenix, 1953-1969.
Jopin Klobe
(779 posts)... those of us less disabled always need to be made aware of the many levels of obstacles ...
.. Thanks, again ...
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)Every time I see your user name, I think "Joplin Globe" (newspaper of Joplin, Missouri)
Phlem
(6,323 posts)asuhornets
(2,405 posts)AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)But y'know... the Hillary Campaign: ethics schmethics!
UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)He's not blocking anything at all..........
Loudestlib
(980 posts)Don't be so defensive.
merrily
(45,251 posts)UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)on you. Being disabled I got my hair up when some people just decide matters like this are unimportant and trivial. Constant unrelenting pain makes one very defensive and at times it is hard to control my emotions. I hope you can understand
UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)and should of never been there..... BTW I myself have a few of disabilities some of which was caused by when my neck collapsed and I suffered Hydrocephalus. So now my headaches have not stopped since that time. That said thank you for your little because that is how my head has felt since 2012.
FailureToCommunicate
(14,014 posts)asuhornets
(2,405 posts)FailureToCommunicate
(14,014 posts)"People who were there said they had to walk quite a ways past the crowds to get to the polls. The videos fairly clearly show a barricaded parking lot and I believe the anecdotal accounts about voters having to walk past that huge crowd."
asuhornets
(2,405 posts)maindawg
(1,151 posts)Monica Lewinski. So gross.
left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)Let me count the ways
artislife
(9,497 posts)ellennelle
(614 posts)fwiw, i'm in in MA, on the north shore, and was appalled to hear about clinton's shenanigans. everyone here was utterly disgusted; it was blatant and brazen, not to mention highly illegal.
for other posts, i'm mentioned the following points, but to reiterate:
i was asked to remove my bernie button and my buddy was asked to remove his bernie cap. because they are political symbols. i have to doubt there is a more international known political symbol on the planet that bill clinton; i daresay i needn't say more.
so yesterday i contacted the following offices:
mayor walsh, by phone and email (thru online contact page)
MA AG office of maura healey, also by phone and online email
also thru the AG office, i filed a consumer complaint against the 2016 hillary campaign/bill clinton. not at all sure what will happen with that, but - so you'll know - it asks for monetary demands, should they take up the complaint; i asked for $27.
i have no doubt there is a similar complaint form you can file thru the ADA, so i would certainly look into that, and asap. it appears this story has already left headline status.
thx again.
artislife
(9,497 posts)It helps if it comes from someone from the state!
dlwickham
(3,316 posts)Where did you get your degree and election law because the Massachusetts election officials said what Clinton was doing wasn't illegal
merrily
(45,251 posts)nothing to do with their statements, I'm sure. They are partisan, they weren't there and they spoke without an investigation Not credible.
It's also adorable you think there is a degree that tells you if someone, with his secret service, media and entourage, is blocking access.
dlwickham
(3,316 posts)FFS
merrily
(45,251 posts)been cited by a number of Democratic office holders. I'll stick to that.
I doubt that those who endorsed her are entirely objective. In any event, they declared no wrong had been done without investigating, which says a lot.
senz
(11,945 posts)by Jane Austen.
wormhog
(5 posts)I am the original sleazebag poster on Reddit. ADA requirements are set by the FEDS and they are in charge of enforcement, not the state. So what the state says doesn't really matter. The statements made by officials conflicted. Earlier in the day, Clinton was warned he couldn't enter the polls, but was with a mayor to ease his passage and did it anyway. My complaint was specific to the ADA requirements because I saw no discussion of that. But I the whole thing left a bad taste in my mouth.
Here are quotes from the earlier in the day before the later shitstorm:
We had to remind some of our poll workers that even a president cant go inside and work a polling place, William F. Galvin, the Massachusetts secretary of state, said in an interview.
We had to remind everybody what the rules are, that there is no campaigning within 150 feet of the voting booths because people are entitled to their privacy, Mr. Galvin said. And its not just him but his media entourage.
He can go in, but he cant approach voters, Mr. Galvin said. We just took the extra precaution of telling them because this is not a usual occurrence. You dont usually get a president doing this.
In a 1 March 2016 Boston.com piece, Brian McNiff, a spokesman for the Massachusetts secretary of state, reiterated that the Clinton campaign was "reminded" of election rules during the Massachusetts primary:
McNiff was asked if Clintons presence would, on its own, constitute a solicitation. Hes a well known person. And hes a spouse of a candidate, McNiff said. That should answer the question. He declined to further elaborate.
They sure changed their tune. Have they really cleared him of doing any wrong? The mayor's office told me yesterday the SOS is still investigating. The quotes I saw only cleared him of electioneering on the *inside* of polls. And you see that the Secretary of State has said he can't approach voters. Photos show that he did. These officials hope Hillary will do them favors when elected so they are looking the other way, but the feds have to support the ADA act. I just don't want to see a rally block me or my precinct's votes, whether it's Trump, Clinton, or even Bernie.
UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)sharing your experience with us and with the authorities. I hope Hillary honors your request of $27 BTW I believe Ashley Williams should ask for her 500 bucks back since she was not allowed to stay at the fundraiser.
wormhog
(5 posts)I'm the OP of the Reddit post, but not a resident of this area. I don't think we need to bomb the DOJ with complaints, but a local complaint might hold more weight than mine. I like the idea of a $27 fine. Below is the link to file the complaint. Thanks!
http://www.ada.gov/complaint/
dchill
(38,484 posts)ConsiderThis_2016
(274 posts)While I was canvassing NH for Bernie, I think it was this guy... "Mayor Marty Walsh" who was busing people into NH for the Clinton's and his benefit. Scum
redruddyred
(1,615 posts)i was not able to vote this cycle due to extremely unclear instructions on the application for the absentee ballot. looking at the application it's my guess that anyone without brainfog might also struggle to understand what exactly was required. the instructions on the website aren't much better.
I've written to both the voting clerk and department of justice, if you guys think a phonecall would help i'll do that too. i did speak to some poor, clearly distressed receptionist human buffer with zero power to change anything; I guess I could harrass her too.
SHRED
(28,136 posts)They care only for the elite.
We get the crumbs...the scraps...the trickled on.
This was interest tidbit I stumbled upon.....
http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/las-vegas/high-fashion-expense-hillary-travel
LiberalArkie
(15,715 posts)On Thu Mar 3, 2016, 07:14 PM an alert was sent on the following post:
A disabled Bernie Sanders Supporter raised a good point
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511407040
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
This is 100% false. The state officials have already denied any wrong doing. We have an election to win this year and continually pushing this sort of propaganda is not only counterproductive, but like the TOS says, if you are bashing, trashing and undermining our candidates during election season, we'll take it that you're rooting for the other side.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Mar 3, 2016, 07:23 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: "The state officials have already denied any wrong doing." State officials can be mistaken, and are guided by their interpretation of law, not morality. The post writer presents interesting points.
"the TOS says, if you are bashing, trashing and undermining our candidates during election season, we'll take it that you're rooting for the other side." Yes, but this is primary season. You're not "working for the other side," if you are endeavoring to have us select our best, most moral candidate.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It is probably bs but not worth hiding. Rebut it.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: So post a reply. Wimpy alert.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I've had to play juror to some bullshit posts before, but this one tops them all.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Alert is accurate, this is against the TOS. But until Skinner does something about the constant Clinton slander we will have to endure for the sake of freedom of opinion.
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
dana_b
(11,546 posts)but to whomever alerted on this:
I am disabled. I have had three back surgeries in 3.5 years and I'm worse off than when I was prior to the surgeries. If i was in that precinct and had to wait in line for much longer than I had planned (even just 10-15 minutes), I would not have been able to vote due to pain. I know that is NOT what you would have wanted, right?? Bill was in the wrong for taking over this precinct with his Secret Service and delaying people from voting.
"if you are bashing, trashing and undermining our candidates" - Bill is not a candidate (or is he?) - I thought that Hillary was!
merrily
(45,251 posts)Like everything else, it's a moving target, depending what is perceived to help Hillary and diss Bernie and his supporters most.
RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)d_legendary1
(2,586 posts)UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)in a hundred years this post would be alerted on................... Corruption does happen on both sides. No one is pure and if we can not speak about it then I am at a loss. Thank you for letting me know about this alert and I thank those who voted against hiding this post.
Kittycat
(10,493 posts)AzDar
(14,023 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)Arrogant, entitled wealth finally holds sway
The poor, handicapped, and minorities are steamrolled
The Queen herself doth preen and pose
decked out for the camera while her fans ooh and ahhh
as commoners do when royalty glides by
and in millions of garages throughout the land
a slow scraping sound
pitchforks being sharpened
Land of Enchantment
(1,217 posts)and cannot stop laughing. Thanks, we all needed that!
BigBearJohn
(11,410 posts)UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)I found this post on Reddit and I did not report this violation. Being disabled myself I felt it was important to spread the word. I'm so sorry if I did not make that clear and I deserve no credit at all.
Hi, I was the original poster on Reddit and I have no issue with you sharing this post or even if people thought you wrote it. Just want to see the issue get some attention so this does not happen again. Thanks for the visibility.
UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)that I found this on Reddit. I was in no way trying to take credit for your post. As you can see there are no edits at all to the post. I wanted your story to get as many views as possible. If I had a Reddit account I would of contacted you before posting. I will delete the post if you like. BTW you guys in the Sanders For President subreddit are doing a wonderful job and an old cripple like me appreciate your efforts 100%
wormhog
(5 posts)Your post title makes it clear. As I said, I appreciate the repost and I'm happy you gave it some play. I don't want a Trump or Clinton brigade blocking me from my poll (which is fortunately about 20 feet from my door -- plenty of seats if I need to wait, which I never have). I'm not a complete disaster, but I can't go far and I'm prone to wipeouts. Situations like making my way through a crowd dodging obstacles are more likely to be an issue if my weight isn't balanced over my good leg. And there are plenty of people worse off than me....
UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)to DU
Yeah, just found this site thanks to your post.
Babel_17
(5,400 posts)In 2012 I had to struggle to get to the polls. We were doing hurricane cleanup and got back to the company yard at a late hour (after starting extremely early for the long ride), and then still had to do "this and that", and wait for the owner to come over and talk about work assignments.
The owner is a great employer. Full stop. But he is a Republican and I think he was heeding Romney's advice for owners to reach out to their employees. I'm speaking about a union company, so I started thinking he was trying to keep us there until the polls closed.
Long story short, I spoke up, "I have to go vote". His reply was none too subtle, "Well, who you going to vote for?".
I replied "I'm voting for jobs". That's a topic for another rant, Republican business people who don't admit how they benefit from Democrats voting to expand our infrastructure.
My point is this. Do not hinder people trying to get to the polling booths. People often work difficult hours and have tight schedules. They have family and health related obligations.
Bloviate in an area that people can choose to visit.
ChiciB1
(15,435 posts)Lokijohn
(46 posts)while allowing the big ones to go through, to poorly paraphrase some wise person whose name escapes me atm. It sure seems to apply to the Clintons.
Uncle Joe
(58,355 posts)Thanks for the thread, UglyGreed.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)on Hardball just now someone said poor Bill was just hobnobbing................