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nationalize the fed

(2,169 posts)
Thu Mar 3, 2016, 08:29 PM Mar 2016

Finally! A Democrat in Congress Calls Out Hillary Clinton's Hawkishness



Iraq veteran Rep. Tulsi Gabbard (D-HI) quits DNC leadership to protest Hillary Clinton's foreign policy failures.

Anthony L. Fisher|Mar. 2, 2016

Hillary Clinton's Super Tuesday thumping her only rival for the 2016 Democratic presidential nomination has revivied the perception of inevitability that she will be the party's nominee. However, one sitting Democratic member of Congress decided to put her career on the line, days before the slew of primaries, to raise awareness of Clinton's career-long track record of supporting failed military interventions and general unrepentant hawkishness.

Rep. Tulsi Gabbard (D-Hawaii) resigned her leadership post on the Democratic National Committee this past weekend, saying she had tired of the requirement to maintain "neutral ground" during the primary process, and endorsed Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.)

Unlike the conscientious objector she supports for president, Gabbard can't be painted as a naive peacenik. She is an Iraq War veteran and still serves as a major in the Hawaii Army National Guard. It is her familiarity with the horrors of war, as well as the big government-gobbling waste produced by it, that informed her decision to split from the party leadership.

During an appearance on MSNBC's "Morning Joe" this past Monday, Gabbard said, "There has not been a clear conversation about the contrast between our two candidates when it comes to questions of war and peace. So this is why I resigned from the DNC."

Speaking with Rachel Maddow on MSNBC last night, Gabbard added, "Secretary Clinton has a record and positions that will take us into a future that will include more interventionist wars of regime change."...snip
Read More: http://reason.com/blog/2016/03/02/democrat-congress-hillary-clinton-hawk



Official House Page: http://gabbard.house.gov/
110 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Finally! A Democrat in Congress Calls Out Hillary Clinton's Hawkishness (Original Post) nationalize the fed Mar 2016 OP
A veteran, no less. Someone who served during a war. Punkingal Mar 2016 #1
This message was self-deleted by its author Chasstev365 Mar 2016 #17
Just in time. We cannot afford to nominate the Trojan Horse that could well lose us Betty Karlson Mar 2016 #82
But, but, Love Trumps War! Hillary said so! Xipe Totec Mar 2016 #2
Don't be fooled. She's a hawk herself. She just wants to be Bernie's VP pick. brush Mar 2016 #3
Watch her question "Defense" secretary Ashton Goldman Sachs Carter nationalize the fed Mar 2016 #8
She's good. Very good. delrem Mar 2016 #20
Really? tazkcmo Mar 2016 #53
Liked it on youtube Babel_17 Mar 2016 #4
Bernie only needs the truth to be known in order to win. Vattel Mar 2016 #5
But truth, getting out in America . . . good luck with that. pdsimdars Mar 2016 #69
good point Vattel Mar 2016 #77
+1, truth isn't really "in" right now harun Mar 2016 #103
You DO realize that Gabbard is one of the GOP's favorite Dems, not only because he's very hawkish EffieBlack Mar 2016 #6
Yep! Sometimes the enemy of your enemy is not your friend. brush Mar 2016 #14
I see Hillary as an economic conservative and a neocon war hawk. kristopher Mar 2016 #22
She should. She's a hawk herself. brush Mar 2016 #43
You really don't understand, do you? kristopher Mar 2016 #44
Hahahahahaha! brush Mar 2016 #45
You've never served in the military. kristopher Mar 2016 #46
Again tazkcmo Mar 2016 #57
Google. brush Mar 2016 #85
Get to it then. tazkcmo Mar 2016 #107
Really? That's all you've got. brush Mar 2016 #109
It's just slime to try and marginalize a critic of Clinton kristopher Mar 2016 #99
And she bashed Obama for not being hawkish enough EffieBlack Mar 2016 #23
Definitely showing her true colors BlueMTexpat Mar 2016 #87
There's are things to beat up Obama about if you're paying attention. pdsimdars Mar 2016 #70
Correct. But that's not what we're talking about. brush Mar 2016 #86
Post removed Post removed Mar 2016 #30
Instant ratfuck post. Wow, that's fast. delrem Mar 2016 #42
well debbie wasserman schultz sure doesnt like her, and DWS never hangs out with Republicans, right? Warren DeMontague Mar 2016 #50
If DWS doesn't like her than she's good in my book. pdsimdars Mar 2016 #71
And working for the DNC, she objected to being neutral. randome Mar 2016 #54
Neutral tazkcmo Mar 2016 #59
Sure, they lean a little toward the ACTUAL Democrat, not the Pretender. randome Mar 2016 #62
Because she didn't like the double standard. tazkcmo Mar 2016 #64
Ha~! pdsimdars Mar 2016 #73
That may well be so but it doesn't change the fact that Gabbard is a poor poster girl for liberals. randome Mar 2016 #76
Please share some more of your learned observations FlatBaroque Mar 2016 #61
"Hillary Clinton's Super Tuesday thumping her only rival..."??? Peace Patriot Mar 2016 #7
Bingo! And Bernie brought in more $$ then Hillary in Jan. he raised even MORE than Jan in Feb! peacebird Mar 2016 #55
Article has several things wrong, starting with Bernie is not a conscientious objector. stevenleser Mar 2016 #9
Please explain your second point. If one looks at the webpage of the US Senate, one sees that... xocet Mar 2016 #102
Didn't he get CO status during the draft? nt. druidity33 Mar 2016 #108
Hillary's war lust is what turns me off most about her. That and the "tweaks" valerief Mar 2016 #10
"Tweaks" means cuts for us, and Bernie is clear about removing the cap pdsimdars Mar 2016 #74
That's why I voted for Bernie!!! nt valerief Mar 2016 #98
Wall Street still wants to get their hands onto Social Security. Ikonoklast Mar 2016 #97
K & R AzDar Mar 2016 #11
Thank you Tulsi! She knows what these wars so cavalierly supported by Hillary do the victims sabrina 1 Mar 2016 #12
No thanks to her Islamophia Nonhlanhla Mar 2016 #13
Dig a little deeper. nt Jitter65 Mar 2016 #19
Ah, so you're fine with the total destruction of Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen,.... delrem Mar 2016 #21
What a bizarre response Nonhlanhla Mar 2016 #28
Post removed Post removed Mar 2016 #36
So being against Islamophobia Nonhlanhla Mar 2016 #38
Post removed Post removed Mar 2016 #39
Kudos to Tulsi Gabbard. Uncle Joe Mar 2016 #15
While Admiral Tulsi was serving in Iraq Geronimoe Mar 2016 #16
+ a few million nationalize the fed Mar 2016 #81
Margaret Thatcher Syndrome Chasstev365 Mar 2016 #18
Really? EffieBlack Mar 2016 #24
I Knew It! Chasstev365 Mar 2016 #25
I get your point dflprincess Mar 2016 #29
Thatcher's political career was heading down the toilet The Traveler Mar 2016 #35
Amazing, brilliant post!!!!! Arazi Mar 2016 #49
Most excellent!!! Raster Mar 2016 #88
Yah, I agree it's totally sexist. delrem Mar 2016 #37
"unrepentant hawkishness" is a bit too mild of a description. Ivan Kaputski Mar 2016 #26
Her media appearances have put a huge smile on my face dreamnightwind Mar 2016 #27
"destabilization of both Libya and Syria..." delrem Mar 2016 #41
They have their eyes on Iran - eom dreamnightwind Mar 2016 #47
I've heard it said that she represents the opinion of the rank and file members of the US military CJCRANE Mar 2016 #91
Hillary Clinton is textbook NeoCon... just different packaging. Raster Mar 2016 #95
Go Tulsi. I am so proud KauaiK Mar 2016 #31
Where's Hillary's photo Plucketeer Mar 2016 #32
Sent Rep. Gabbard Thespian2 Mar 2016 #33
it's weird, I was in Kaua'i when I heard this dana_b Mar 2016 #34
From reason.com... SidDithers Mar 2016 #40
Always attacking somebody. Never adding to the discussion. Octafish Mar 2016 #52
Hey, if progressives wouldn't rely on such non-progressive sources... SidDithers Mar 2016 #56
So show that. Octafish Mar 2016 #63
Show that reason.com is a libertarian site?... SidDithers Mar 2016 #66
I thought something was a bit off. Thanks for digging deeper. NurseJackie Mar 2016 #58
The Rand Paul loving libertarians at reason.com don't like Hillary.. SidDithers Mar 2016 #60
Now THERE is a woman who will someday be POTUS BigBearJohn Mar 2016 #48
A warrior who thinks Islam is to blame for ISIS? I don't think so. randome Mar 2016 #65
JFK: Conscientious Objector = War Hero Octafish Mar 2016 #51
But wait, will any of Hillary's supporters listen these facts?? pdsimdars Mar 2016 #67
And do you bother to read the entire thread before posting? randome Mar 2016 #72
Here's the best idea I had about her . . .how about Tulsi for Bernie's VP? pdsimdars Mar 2016 #68
I thought that too. Svafa Mar 2016 #101
I don't know which is worse... Orsino Mar 2016 #75
A little background on Tulsi if anyone's interested..... PragmaticLiberal Mar 2016 #78
Aren't we all told repeatedly that no politician is perfect? nationalize the fed Mar 2016 #80
"Aren't we all told repeatedly that no politician is perfect?" PragmaticLiberal Mar 2016 #83
I disagree with both of them. CJCRANE Mar 2016 #93
In large part you're correct. PragmaticLiberal Mar 2016 #94
Nothing but the best for the oppressed, huh? DinahMoeHum Mar 2016 #96
I agree with you actually. PragmaticLiberal Mar 2016 #100
When someone has no substantive response they attack the messanger Lorien Mar 2016 #79
I like her and I hope Bernie does too. erlewyne Mar 2016 #84
Thumping? snort Mar 2016 #89
This is a legitimate issue between our candidates. Gamecock Lefty Mar 2016 #90
A rare sane voice in Washington. nt CJCRANE Mar 2016 #92
Is this also a sane voice in Washington? SCantiGOP Mar 2016 #104
A lot more things have happened and more information has come out since then. CJCRANE Mar 2016 #110
So "PragmaticLiberal" thinks it's just fine to try to FairWinds Mar 2016 #105
K&R! nt Duval Mar 2016 #106

Response to Punkingal (Reply #1)

 

Betty Karlson

(7,231 posts)
82. Just in time. We cannot afford to nominate the Trojan Horse that could well lose us
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 11:26 AM
Mar 2016

House, Senate and White House (even if she manages to win the presidency).

nationalize the fed

(2,169 posts)
8. Watch her question "Defense" secretary Ashton Goldman Sachs Carter
Thu Mar 3, 2016, 09:20 PM
Mar 2016

She is an extremely impressive woman.



If she's a hawk, why is she the only one asking the tough questions?

She cares about the now gutted 4th amendment as well



TULSI 2020!

Babel_17

(5,400 posts)
4. Liked it on youtube
Thu Mar 3, 2016, 09:09 PM
Mar 2016

If you have a youtube account, hover your mouse over the bottom, near the right, of the video, while it is playing or paused, until you see "Watch on www.youtube.com". Click on that, and then you can like it (You may be asked to log in. That only takes a second, and you don't leave the page).

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
6. You DO realize that Gabbard is one of the GOP's favorite Dems, not only because he's very hawkish
Thu Mar 3, 2016, 09:16 PM
Mar 2016

but she also loves to beat up on President Obama.

Funny how that got lost in the "She's going after Hillary so she's WONDERFUL!!!" afterglow.

brush

(53,719 posts)
14. Yep! Sometimes the enemy of your enemy is not your friend.
Thu Mar 3, 2016, 09:40 PM
Mar 2016

Sounds almost Machiavellian but it's from Sun Tzu, and well worth considering when you think about what's her agenda (she's bashed Clinton, and Obama, the president and leader of her own party quite often).

kristopher

(29,798 posts)
22. I see Hillary as an economic conservative and a neocon war hawk.
Thu Mar 3, 2016, 10:14 PM
Mar 2016

At least Tulsi knows the cost of war.

brush

(53,719 posts)
43. She should. She's a hawk herself.
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 04:52 AM
Mar 2016

Bernie is not, so it makes one question her agenda/ambition even more.

kristopher

(29,798 posts)
44. You really don't understand, do you?
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 05:02 AM
Mar 2016

There is a Bush/Cheny style of hawk and an Eisenhower style of "hawk". If you don't understand the distinction, I don't know how to educate you except to suggest that additional experience in some areas of life might bring greater wisdom.

brush

(53,719 posts)
45. Hahahahahaha!
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 05:27 AM
Mar 2016

Now you're parsing what kind of hawk she is to defend this nakedly ambitious move.

You guys bash Clinton 24/7 for being a hawk but try to "educate" someone who points out that this attention-seeking, VP nod-seeking endorser is the right kind of hawk.

Give me a fu_king break from that pretentious bullsh_t.

Hahahahahaha!

tazkcmo

(7,298 posts)
57. Again
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 09:35 AM
Mar 2016

Please provide support for your "hawkishness" claim. Enlighten us please. Maybe it's just easier to say stuff than it is to provide support for your claim? I just want to compare and contrast her position with Sec Clinton's history.

tazkcmo

(7,298 posts)
107. Get to it then.
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 07:56 PM
Mar 2016

You make the claim, you provide the evidence and documentation. The ball's in your court and in fact, it never left your court because all you've got is hot air. Buh and Bye.

brush

(53,719 posts)
109. Really? That's all you've got.
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 09:49 PM
Mar 2016

I already googled it which is why I posted what I did.

Are your fingers not cable of anything but snark? If you can't google for yourself I don't know what to tell you.

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
23. And she bashed Obama for not being hawkish enough
Thu Mar 3, 2016, 10:15 PM
Mar 2016

But she came out against Hillary (big surprise - she was the Secretary of State to the President she's been trashing), so that's all that matters . . .

BlueMTexpat

(15,365 posts)
87. Definitely showing her true colors
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 12:02 PM
Mar 2016

and they're not at all pretty. She's more hawkish than Hillary is.

A recent article nails it: http://www.civilbeat.com/2016/02/what-is-tulsi-gabbard-really-up-to/

So given that:

Whoever becomes the Democratic presidential nominee in 2016 will doubtless carry Hawaii against any Republican; and
Tulsi’s rightist and pro-military politics and Bernie’s progressive positions make exceedingly strange bedfellows

The only conclusion can be that Tulsi either:

A. Has seen the light and has suddenly become a progressive; or

B. She’s the opportunist many of her detractors think she is.

Take your pick.
 

pdsimdars

(6,007 posts)
70. There's are things to beat up Obama about if you're paying attention.
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 10:22 AM
Mar 2016

Start with the biggest -- TPP

Response to EffieBlack (Reply #6)

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
50. well debbie wasserman schultz sure doesnt like her, and DWS never hangs out with Republicans, right?
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 09:27 AM
Mar 2016

Debbie Wasserman Schultz who teamed up with Sheldon Adelson to send sick people to prison for using medical marijuana.

Debbie Wasserman Schultz whose position on the drug war aligns with Chris Christie's.

Funny how that gets lost in the "she's on team Hillary so she's so WONDERFUL!" Afterglow.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
54. And working for the DNC, she objected to being neutral.
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 09:32 AM
Mar 2016

[hr][font color="blue"][center]No squirrels were harmed in the making of this post. Yet.[/center][/font][hr]
 

randome

(34,845 posts)
62. Sure, they lean a little toward the ACTUAL Democrat, not the Pretender.
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 09:45 AM
Mar 2016

And even that should be called out for what it is. But still...that was her stated objection -she didn't want to be neutral. In addition to wanting to blame Islam for ISIS and for trashing Obama, I don't give this last-second conversion much credence.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]No squirrels were harmed in the making of this post. Yet.[/center][/font][hr]

tazkcmo

(7,298 posts)
64. Because she didn't like the double standard.
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 09:51 AM
Mar 2016

Now if the DNC was truly neutral and the head of the DNC wasn't aslso the former head of the Clinton campaign then you'd have a valid point but this reeks of hypocrisy. And your remark about "real Democrat not the Pretender" shows where today's Democratic Party has changed. Today's Democratic Party views single payer healthcare as a Pony, SS a Wall ST opportunity and income inequality as a feature, not a bug.

I'll take the "Pretender" over your "Real Democrat" any day as the Pretender reflects the Democratic Party I was brought up in.

 

pdsimdars

(6,007 posts)
73. Ha~!
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 10:28 AM
Mar 2016

As someone pointed out, how did you become a Democrat? By writing it on a card and registering it. Duh! That's all it takes to be a Democrat for anyone.

But if you want to go deeper (which most Hillary supporters seem incapable of doing) look at the positions on issues. . . with that perspective, Bernie is the true progressive and Hillary is a hard core Conservative.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
76. That may well be so but it doesn't change the fact that Gabbard is a poor poster girl for liberals.
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 10:39 AM
Mar 2016

She thinks Islam is to blame for ISIS and thought Obama was about to start a nuclear war with Russia. She is something of a loose cannon.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]No squirrels were harmed in the making of this post. Yet.[/center][/font][hr]

Peace Patriot

(24,010 posts)
7. "Hillary Clinton's Super Tuesday thumping her only rival..."???
Thu Mar 3, 2016, 09:18 PM
Mar 2016

Not so fast!

Sanders was supposed to win only one state, his own. He won four. He won his own, VT, by such a big majority that Clinton gets NO delegates, not one, from that state. And Vermonters know him best. He won representative, bell-weather Dem states, MN and CO, by huge margins, 18% and 20%! These numbers included big numbers of young voters and new voters, Independents and Latinos.

Wherever he won, turnout went up. Wherever Clinton won, turnout went down. He also won a near tie in MA, and he won OK ( a "red" state). And all this is after he demolished Clinton in NH and earned a virtual tie in IA. He lost NV but not by much, and he earned the majority of Latino votes. Clinton won mostly low-population, right-wing, southern states, which will go Republican in November. Turnout of Dem voters in SC, an alleged Clinton "stronghold," was 12.5%--a disgraceful number and a Debbie Wasserman Shultz specialty: turn off the voters.

Also, Sanders fundraising has been phenomenal, all in small donations. He brought in $6 Million dollars in small donations on one day alone this week!

And now the campaign moves into far more Sanders-friendly country!

MSNBC are goddamned liars for not telling people all of this in a balanced report. And I do hope viewers will "thump" MSNBC off the air for crap like this.

Just listened to the interview of Rep. Tulsi Gabbard (D-Hawaii). Lordy, these Corporate media people are such jerks! Gabbard is perhaps the bravest, most intelligent public office holder in the country, besides the man she just endorsed. And her message is awesome: No more U.S. interventionist wars! Bring some of those resources home to help our people! I love her this. She has nailed Clinton on this terribly important issue. She spoke very well about it, very sincere and very convincing. (She served in Iraq and lost friends there.)

But she didn't answer the political strategy question very well. Maddow of course knifed Sanders, but Gabbard should have come back with "He won four states!" (--plus some of the other things above--the margins, the turnout, etc.). She didn't spark to this question. I won't blame her for not being glib. We have too much of that. But she should've stated facts that MSNBC is suppressing. She did say, in so many words, that this contest is not over. But it kind of fell away in her verbiage. And, to me, an opportunity to state the main, simple facts of Sanders' true position was lost.

Her amazing gesture of solidarity with Bernie's more peaceful foreign policy was there, though. And we cannot thank her enough for it. She will bring veterans into the campaign, for sure, and will bring them out to vote. And her peace message will absolutely resonate through the country.

peacebird

(14,195 posts)
55. Bingo! And Bernie brought in more $$ then Hillary in Jan. he raised even MORE than Jan in Feb!
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 09:33 AM
Mar 2016

His donations are swinging ever higher, as more people hear his message!

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
9. Article has several things wrong, starting with Bernie is not a conscientious objector.
Thu Mar 3, 2016, 09:21 PM
Mar 2016

A conscientious objector is someone against all war for any reason. That's not Sanders and he would be the first one to say so.

Second, the article lists sanders as (I-Vt) but he is running as a Democrat not as an Independent, so that is also not correct.

Gabbbards action in quitting the DNC leadership isn't that interesting. People resign from county DEC's and state parties and the DNC all the time to take roles in campaigns. It's not uncommon at all. Much ado about nothing.

xocet

(3,871 posts)
102. Please explain your second point. If one looks at the webpage of the US Senate, one sees that...
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 03:29 PM
Mar 2016

the reference to Sen. Sanders includes (I-VT) which presumably means that he was elected as an Independent by the state of Vermont.


Sanders, Bernard - (I - VT) Class I
332 Dirksen Senate Office Building Washington DC 20510
(202) 224-5141
Contact: www.sanders.senate.gov/contact/

http://www.senate.gov/senators/contact/


The article refers to Sanders twice - once with the title Sen., once without that title.

Are you claiming that (I-VT) is not a proper extension to his title of Senator?

I don't know about the quality of the rest of the article, but your point seems clearly incorrect. Did you mean something else?

valerief

(53,235 posts)
10. Hillary's war lust is what turns me off most about her. That and the "tweaks"
Thu Mar 3, 2016, 09:24 PM
Mar 2016

to Social Security and Medicare. Tweaks always means big cuts.

 

pdsimdars

(6,007 posts)
74. "Tweaks" means cuts for us, and Bernie is clear about removing the cap
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 10:33 AM
Mar 2016

which will mean MORE for us and SS will be good forever.

Ikonoklast

(23,973 posts)
97. Wall Street still wants to get their hands onto Social Security.
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 02:13 PM
Mar 2016

Hillary is the tool they will use to steal this country blind, yet again.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
12. Thank you Tulsi! She knows what these wars so cavalierly supported by Hillary do the victims
Thu Mar 3, 2016, 09:26 PM
Mar 2016

of her Hawkish policies.

Nonhlanhla

(2,074 posts)
13. No thanks to her Islamophia
Thu Mar 3, 2016, 09:30 PM
Mar 2016

She seemed interesting until I learned about her take on ISIS as rooted in Islamic theology. That is so absurd and dangerous. She may be progressive in other areas, but when it comes to terrorism and Islam, she's very, very wrong, in a deeply problematic way.

http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties/curious-islamophobic-politics-dem-congressmember-tulsi-gabbard

delrem

(9,688 posts)
21. Ah, so you're fine with the total destruction of Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen,....
Thu Mar 3, 2016, 10:12 PM
Mar 2016

Because you're not an "islamophobe" whereas, you say, someone who wants to call a halt to the slaughter is.

Cool.

Or did you have another point to make? If so, it got lost in your pretense.

Nonhlanhla

(2,074 posts)
28. What a bizarre response
Thu Mar 3, 2016, 10:46 PM
Mar 2016

I'm NOT OK with war but I'm also not OK with people who fan the fires of Islamophobia which in turn contribute to the public's acquiescence in these wars.

Response to Nonhlanhla (Reply #28)

Nonhlanhla

(2,074 posts)
38. So being against Islamophobia
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 12:44 AM
Mar 2016

makes me a ratfucker, eh? Wow.

You have no manners. Placing you on ignore.

Response to Nonhlanhla (Reply #38)

 

Geronimoe

(1,539 posts)
16. While Admiral Tulsi was serving in Iraq
Thu Mar 3, 2016, 09:50 PM
Mar 2016

Chelsea Clinton was attending Stamford and then Oxford. She was receiving $600,000 per year over many years for a 3 month consulting contract with NBC (as a student). Chelsea went on to do PR work for a hedge fund (also as a student), and charges $100,000 on speaker's circuit. On the campaign trail Chelsea claims to worry about Bernie working to provide Medicare for all. ANd she worries that Bernie wants to be King.

Anyway, Congress women, Admiral Tulsi is integrity. She gets what the Ivy Leaguer's never will, like President Eisenhower, the futility and stupidly of war. Hillary is a neocon, willing to send other people's family to war without even bothering to read the NIE.

nationalize the fed

(2,169 posts)
81. + a few million
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 11:23 AM
Mar 2016
Chelsea Clinton was attending Stamford and then Oxford. She was receiving $600,000 per year over many years for a 3 month consulting contract with NBC (as a student). Chelsea went on to do PR work for a hedge fund (also as a student), and charges $100,000 on speaker's circuit. On the campaign trail Chelsea claims to worry about Bernie working to provide Medicare for all. ANd she worries that Bernie wants to be King.


Spot on. I remember when "reporters" used to present things like this. Before they grabbed pom pom's and donned cheerleading skirts.

Excellent post. Enough nepotism.

Chasstev365

(5,191 posts)
18. Margaret Thatcher Syndrome
Thu Mar 3, 2016, 09:58 PM
Mar 2016

She will be so eager to show that she is as tough as any man that she will be extra aggressive. I just hope too many innocent people don't pay the price as a result.

Chasstev365

(5,191 posts)
25. I Knew It!
Thu Mar 3, 2016, 10:23 PM
Mar 2016

Margaret Thatcher was awful person, who prided herself on treating others, particularly the Catholics in Northern Ireland, cruelly and like shit, but I knew some would not get the point and only see sexism.

dflprincess

(28,068 posts)
29. I get your point
Thu Mar 3, 2016, 10:49 PM
Mar 2016

and agree completely.

Hillary already proved she was willing to send other people's kids to die for the sake of her career when she voted for the IWR.

 

The Traveler

(5,632 posts)
35. Thatcher's political career was heading down the toilet
Thu Mar 3, 2016, 11:49 PM
Mar 2016

The Argentinians blessed her by invading the Falklands. (Or Malvinas depending on whose side you are on.) At that moment, Thatcher was arranging the sale of one of Britain's last 3 Air Craft Carriers, the Hermes.

The Brits thumped the Falklands and the Argentinian Navy and she cancelled the sale shortly after the cessation of hostilities, defense spending then being much more popular on the British isles than it had been a short time previous.

But Thatcher's political career was saved, and in a very real sense that paved the road to perdition for both the UK and the US.

I think it wrong to suggest that Thatcher did the Falklands so that, as a female head of state, she could establish her toughness. She did that because her political career was sinking fast and it would have been political suicide in Britain to have done anything else. But her military victory sated British outage ... and she banked enormous political capital as a result. And, historically, struggling political leaders have often turned military adventure into political capital, just like Thatcher.

No, Thatcher did not do this to establish that she was one tough lady. But it DID establish those credentials ... and that did not go unnoticed. Anywhere. And I doubt the super aware, super alert young Hillary Clinton was one of the very few who did not notice.

Ms. Thatcher was, like Ms. Clinton is today, an advocate of the use of military power to achieve political ends both domestic and international. She just didn't want her budget to pay for it. And Ronald Reagan was delighted to stick us with the bill. That played out in several ways, but the First Gulf War is probably the most dramatic example.

Consider the first Gulf War. Kuwait had been slant drilling into Iraqi oil fields for years, and with Britain's help had been stalling international court proceedings. (Why was Britain helping? Because Kuwait was giving 'em a sweet heart deal on oil.) Saddam Hussein repeatedly warned that if the court case did not proceed, he would have no choice to invade and put a stop to it. Iraq asked our government if we would strongly object. Our government (under the leadership of Poppy Bush) basically responded along the lines of "We'd really rather you wouldn't but we do understand." The situation really was intolerable, and everyone knew it. It was one of the few times Saddam was in the right.

Now, shortly after Iraq invades the press is filled with news of widespread atrocities committed by an undisciplined Iraqi Army.

There are always atrocities in war, and our own soldiers do not have a spotless regard in this regard. But at that time the Iraqi Army was highly trained, experienced, and very well ordered. (Especially their combat engineers, which we regarded as the best in the world. Seriously. Those guys were amazing.) So the scope of atrocity suggested by (principally British) news media was kinda surprising, but I believed it. But years later many of those reports seem to be, uh, exaggerated or falsified. (Propaganda is a tool of war. Former colleagues of mine had shared their doubts with me by the mid 90s ... it is possible, but uncertain, that the Brits manipulated the news and spoofed us all. I can't be certain. So I draw question marks all over that subject.) But in any case, with those stories in the air, President Bush was primed to be spanked by Ms. Thatcher, who had resigned as Prime Minister a short time before (but still held a seat in the House of Commons) and was still most revered by the American right wing.

And Poppy folded. 200,000 or so Iraqi lives and god only knows how much money later ... yeah. The rest is history. We've been becoming increasingly tangled up in Middle Eastern military adventures ever since. But ... US military might was successfully deployed to serve British interests at minimum costs to the British treasury. Maggie wins again.

So what's the point of all this?

Ms. Clinton's campaign and record as Secretary of State show a willingness to engage in regime change and the tactics of destabilization. (Check out what's going on in Honduras right now. And Libya and Syria are SO MUCH BETTER after our actions. Yeah.) Early in the campaign she criticized President Obama for being too hesitant to engage military power. (Now, of course, it is anathema to criticize Obama on ANYTHING. But in her book and before Sanders' rise in the polls, sure. Why not?) In her debates, she has said she is willing to "engage over 1/3 of the planet". (Paraphrasing. She might have said "use military power" or "wage war". But you get the gist. I was too busy weeping to take exact note.)

I don't think this is because she wants to establish she is tough. I think this is because she believes that America must project its power and bring the world under the umbrella of the "Washington Consensus", the current economic order of the West. I think she believes this is the right thing to do.

Me, I think it is arrogant and foolish ... and gives players around the world just too many opportunities for manipulating America into a deployment of military power to fulfill THEIR interests. Just like Maggie Thatcher did. And that exiled Iraqi asshole who pandered to George W. Bush (aka "Shrub&quot and convinced him to make the most significant strategic blunder in American military history. And the so-called "moderate rebels" that hobnobbed with John McCain (and later went on to lead ISIL).

I want an orderly retreat from empire. Empire is expensive and corrosive to civil liberties. Empire leads to war. It's hard on women, children, and puppies ... well, on everything. And so, I cannot support Ms. Clinton. But I recognize I may have to hold my nose in order to deny the Presidency to Der Trumpenfuhrer or some other Republican whackjob.

At some point, after the General Election, I am going to have to seriously consider if the Democratic Party really, really represents my values on these matters of war, the environment, social and economic justice, and other important topics.

But let's get through the 2016 Shit Show first. We must not ... can not ... allow Republicans access to the missile codes.

Trav


Raster

(20,997 posts)
88. Most excellent!!!
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 12:52 PM
Mar 2016

Although she was not an original signatory for the PNAC, Hillary Clinton is a NeoConservative in every sense of the word:

neoconservative noun
relating to or denoting a return to a modified form of a traditional viewpoint, in particular a political ideology characterized by an emphasis on free-market capitalism and an interventionist foreign policy.

An updated, freshened for the 21st century NeoCon. As I have stated in a previous posting, it is no big surprise that the old neocon guard are now moving to stand with Clinton. The centurions of New Rome have found themselves a new Caesar...and she wears a pantsuit. And primarily for this reason, I also cannot support Mrs. Clinton. However, also like you I recognize there are worse alternatives waiting in the wings. Clinton is what she is. At least HRC is not bat-shit crazy. The Republicans - almost to a man - truly are bat-shit crazy. It is absolutely beyond belief: (1) that Donald Trump will most likely be the Republican nominee for the POTUS; and (2) he's the sanest one of the bunch.

delrem

(9,688 posts)
37. Yah, I agree it's totally sexist.
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 12:07 AM
Mar 2016

There is no difference between a female and a male warmonger, war profiteer.
None.

There's a similarity in that Maggie Thatcher and Hillary Clinton both like some Kissinger, they both like a similar Reaganesque opera.

But shit, all of them do.

dreamnightwind

(4,775 posts)
27. Her media appearances have put a huge smile on my face
Thu Mar 3, 2016, 10:44 PM
Mar 2016

I was extremely pleased to see someone on the MSM bringing up Hillary's role in the destabilization of both Libya and Syrai. This is the real scandal behind Benghazi, not the fake Republican one.

It takes a lot of guts to go on MSM and say these things, nobody else is doing it. For that I am extremely grateful to her.

I see some posts in this thread saying negative things about Gabbard. They entirely miss the point. It isn't about Gabbart, at all, it's about the presumptive Democratic nominee being a foreign policy hawk with neocon connections.

delrem

(9,688 posts)
41. "destabilization of both Libya and Syria..."
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 01:02 AM
Mar 2016

destabilization, after Afghanistan, Iraq, and what do we have now???

Holy shit. Time to bring in the inventors. Someone who can invent a likely story. Make it safe to vote for Hillary Rodham Clinton.

CJCRANE

(18,184 posts)
91. I've heard it said that she represents the opinion of the rank and file members of the US military
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 01:25 PM
Mar 2016

who are tired of the neocon and neolib wars of choice which are actually making the world less safe for us.

 

Plucketeer

(12,882 posts)
32. Where's Hillary's photo
Thu Mar 3, 2016, 11:11 PM
Mar 2016

of getting her dress uniform tended? Of the medals she earned while running with her head down to receive flowers from some waiting dignitaries? Aren't there any medals for phoniness under fire?

dana_b

(11,546 posts)
34. it's weird, I was in Kaua'i when I heard this
Thu Mar 3, 2016, 11:28 PM
Mar 2016

and although I'm from California, I felt proud. Good going, Tulsi!!

SidDithers

(44,228 posts)
56. Hey, if progressives wouldn't rely on such non-progressive sources...
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 09:34 AM
Mar 2016

then I wouldn't complain.

Similarly, I don't think that progressives should promote writers that are racists, homophobes or anti-Semites.

I would think that all DUers would agree that writers who are homophobes, racists or anti-Semites don't belong at DU.

Right?

Sid

SidDithers

(44,228 posts)
66. Show that reason.com is a libertarian site?...
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 09:59 AM
Mar 2016

I thought that was pretty common knowledge. I'm surprised nobody else had spoken up about it.

Reason is an American libertarian monthly magazine published by the Reason Foundation.[1] The magazine has a circulation of around 50,000[2] and was named one of the 50 best magazines in 2003 and 2004 by the Chicago Tribune.[3][4]




Sid

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
65. A warrior who thinks Islam is to blame for ISIS? I don't think so.
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 09:52 AM
Mar 2016

[hr][font color="blue"][center]No squirrels were harmed in the making of this post. Yet.[/center][/font][hr]

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
51. JFK: Conscientious Objector = War Hero
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 09:29 AM
Mar 2016

"War will exist until that distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige that the warrior does today." -- President John F. Kennedy

 

pdsimdars

(6,007 posts)
67. But wait, will any of Hillary's supporters listen these facts??
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 10:05 AM
Mar 2016

They have shown no ability in the past to absorb information that doesn't agree with their "Clinton belief system" Kind of like the Trump supporters. . . nothing matters but their adoration of their cult leader.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
72. And do you bother to read the entire thread before posting?
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 10:27 AM
Mar 2016

Gabbard thinks Islam is to blame for ISIS. She objected to being neutral at the DNC, which, I'm given to understand, is actually a desirable trait to maintain...when it benefits Sanders.

She thinks actions against ISIS will lead to nuclear war with Russia: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/tulsi-gabbard-nuclear-war_us_56607e73e4b08e945fee6015

U.S. Rep. Tulsi Gabbard (D-Hawaii) continued her harsh criticisms of the Obama administration's foreign policy, saying actions against the Islamic State group could lead the U.S. into a "devastating nuclear war" with Russia.

Gabbard's warning on Tuesday was directed at Defense Secretary Ashton Carter, who testified during a House Armed Services Committee hearing about America's strategy to defeat ISIS in Iraq.

Gabbard, a vice chairwoman of the Democratic National Committee, said she could "only presume" that President Barack Obama’s recent decision to deploy American fighter jets to the border between Turkey and Syria was to "target Russian planes." The two countries' "diametrically opposed objectives" with air strikes in Syria, she said, create a "strong potential" for a head-to-head military conflict.

Apparently she missed out on the part where Russia and the U.S. are cooperating to target ISIS and thinks Obama really wants to bomb Russia.

She is a bit of a loose cannon, not a strategic thinker.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]No squirrels were harmed in the making of this post. Yet.[/center][/font][hr]

Svafa

(594 posts)
101. I thought that too.
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 03:05 PM
Mar 2016

Two things that people criticize about Sanders are his age and foreign policy experience. Gabbard would round out the ticket. Sad as it is though, I'm sure the Republican smear machine would have a field day with a Jewish/Hindu ticket.

Orsino

(37,428 posts)
75. I don't know which is worse...
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 10:38 AM
Mar 2016

...that she felt she had to go hawk to compensate for all the sexism, or that she probably did have to.

PragmaticLiberal

(904 posts)
78. A little background on Tulsi if anyone's interested.....
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 10:44 AM
Mar 2016
http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties/curious-islamophobic-politics-dem-congressmember-tulsi-gabbard


“Meet the Democrat Who’s Not Afraid to Criticize President Obama on ISIS,” intones a recent ABC News headline. The story describes remarks by Hawaii Rep. Tulsi Gabbard (D), who has for the past month been all over the media slamming Obama's refusal to directly associate ISIS and other terrorists with the Islamic faith.

She's particularly a favorite of right-wing media. Appearing with Fox's Neil Cavuto last week, she lashed out at the White House for holding an extremism summit with Muslim Americans, saying it's a “diversion from what our real focus needs to be. And that focus is on that Islamic extremist threat.” She criticized Obama for saying that “poverty, lack of access to jobs, lack of access to education” is contributing to radicalization. “They are not fueled by materialistic motivation, it's actually a theological, this radical Islamic ideology,” she said, throwing red meat to Fox viewers.

nationalize the fed

(2,169 posts)
80. Aren't we all told repeatedly that no politician is perfect?
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 11:18 AM
Mar 2016

Of course we are. Tulsi has demonstrated a willingness to change her positions when she reflects upon new information- i.e. Gay marriage.

Meanwhile, she can't be too much of a favorite of the right wing with positions like this:



More videos https://www.youtube.com/user/tulsipress

Additionally, who else on the Democratic side is standing up for the 4th Amendment, as posted above?

PragmaticLiberal

(904 posts)
83. "Aren't we all told repeatedly that no politician is perfect?"
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 11:42 AM
Mar 2016

I agree with you but I don't see PBO getting that kind of leeway from many DUers...so I'm not giving it to Tulsi.

Just not a fan.

Lorien

(31,935 posts)
79. When someone has no substantive response they attack the messanger
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 11:15 AM
Mar 2016

and there a LOT of substance free replies to this thread!

Sorry Hillary fans; your hero is as bloodthirsty as they come.

snort

(2,334 posts)
89. Thumping?
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 01:00 PM
Mar 2016

Who are these 'journalists'? The media in this country is one twisted up and sold out mess operated by sycophants and idiots.

Gamecock Lefty

(700 posts)
90. This is a legitimate issue between our candidates.
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 01:07 PM
Mar 2016

I’ll admit my candidate, Hillary, is more hawkish than Bernie, but I’m cool with that. I don’t look at hawkish as being pro-war, but I do look at Hillary as being a stronger national leader and a stronger world leader. So the fact she is labeled as being more hawkish than Bernie is pretty much an attempt by the anti-Hillary crowd to slam her, but I look at it differently and am not bother by it at all.

SCantiGOP

(13,862 posts)
104. Is this also a sane voice in Washington?
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 03:57 PM
Mar 2016

”All of the women — Democratic women I should say — of the Senate urged Hillary Clinton to run, and I hope she does. Hillary is terrific."

Senator Elizabeth Warren in a 2014 interview. (and since she has not endorsed anyone in the race I assume her sentiment remains the same.)

CJCRANE

(18,184 posts)
110. A lot more things have happened and more information has come out since then.
Mon Mar 14, 2016, 09:39 AM
Mar 2016

2014 is a world away.

The world has turned upside down since then.

 

FairWinds

(1,717 posts)
105. So "PragmaticLiberal" thinks it's just fine to try to
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 05:11 PM
Mar 2016

knock Ms. Gabbard down for her associations, and ignore

completely the issues she raises.

So that means it's fair for me to focus in on Ms. Clinton's
associations with Henry (War Criminal) Kissinger, the neo-con
Kagan's, the Walton's, and etc.

Many of HRC's associations smell to high heaven.

Right?

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