2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumNightSide – Voter Fraud In Massachusetts?
BOSTON (CBS) Last night, you may have heard a caller talking about a disturbing incident at the polls yesterday. The NightSide team has done some digging, and you might be shocked at what weve found! Tonight well give you an update and talk about the fine line between assisting a disabled voter and committing voter fraud. Do you think there should be stricter voting laws?
Originally broadcast March 2nd, 2016.
Note: Click on the player on the screen
From Reddit:
Mentally ill coerced into voting for in Mass? CBS Local Radio.
I'm concerned after listening to this story of mentally ill people possibly being coerced into voting. Staff apparently registered everyone to vote. Then residents taken to the polls "to vote for Hillary." McDonalds was the reward.
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2016/03/02/nightside-voter-fraud-in-massachusetts/
You have to click on the play button in the box below the text. This was on the radio last night. At about 2:45 in, you hear the interview with a woman who says her brother was coerced into voting.
I know with all of the problems people had at the polls in MA, Bernie may have lost some votes. But this issue goes beyond lost votes.
Xipe Totec
(43,890 posts)LiberalArkie
(15,715 posts)INdemo
(6,994 posts)No voting restrictions in Mass. just laws and Bill Clinton broke 3 of them. Blocking access to a polling place,campaigning within the restricted area of a polling place,entering a polling place to campaign and blocking Disabled access. But the AG will not do a thing because he is a Hillary supporter..Is this fair. Karl Rove techniques in the Democratic Party Right Bill?
Im going back to the sight to see if it is still there Any bets?
It lasted about 45 seconds.
XRubicon
(2,212 posts)Bernie lost Mortimer. Get over it.
NWCorona
(8,541 posts)If so I loved that scene!
Merryland
(1,134 posts)Dem2
(8,168 posts)Source for your claim?
mythology
(9,527 posts)stranger81
(2,345 posts)I wouldn't place any bets on that remaining true for very long.
Dem2
(8,168 posts)These people shouldn't be coercing lower functioning people to vote for a particular candidate. Apparently there is a law that the Attorney General can use to deal with this potential coercion issue.
HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)Loss of voting rights for mentally disordered persons can be an exception to that global right. But it generally requires impairment of function that requires the person to be under guardianship. Not all persons institutionalized with mental illness are considered under guardianship, and even those that are can petition for the right to vote.
here is a bit of information on how things go in Massachusetts from https://www.naela.org/Public/Library/Publications/Publications_Main/NAELA_Journal_Archive/NAELA_Journal_2014/Fall_2014/Feinstein_Webber.aspx
In 1975, Massachusetts highest court considered the scope of the guardianship exclusion in Boyd v. Board of Registrars of Voters of Belchertown.14 In Boyd, several individuals who were committed to a state-run residential facility for individuals with developmental disabilities, but who were not under guardianship, sued when the local registrar refused to allow them to register to vote.15 At that time, the Massachusetts voter registration form required a sworn affirmative statement that voters were not under guardianship.16 The Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court narrowly construed the state constitution and voter registration statute, holding that the residents were not under guardianship and so were entitled to vote as a basic right of citizenship.17
A decade later, the disenfranchised plaintiff in a second case, Guardianship of Hurley, was under full guardianship at election time, but a petition to limit his guardianship and allow him to vote was pending.18 The local election commissioner refused Mr. Hurleys affidavit of voter registration, because Mr. Hurley could not swear that he was not under guardianship.19 With his full guardianship still in place, Mr. Hurley successfully obtained a probate court order declaring that he was capable of making informed voting decisions and therefore was not under guardianship as the term was used in the constitution and voting statute.20 The Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court upheld the probate courts order and remanded the case for an award of Mr. Hurleys reasonable attorneys fees, holding that because he was sufficiently competent to warrant a limited guardianship any derogation of his right to vote under [const. amend.] art. 3 and G.L. c. 51, § 1 may have deprived him under color of law of secured rights.21
Relying on the Boyd and Hurley decisions, the Massachusetts Elections Division in 1991 issued an opinion with the self-explanatory title Persons Subject to Guardianships That Do Not Specifically Forbid Voting Are Eligible Voters.22 In issuing the opinion, the Elections Division consulted with the states departments of Mental Health and Mental Retardation and the Attorney General.23 The Opinion directs local election officials not to deny registration based on guardianship, unless the guardianship decree contains specific findings that prohibit voting.24
In 2008, the Massachusetts legislature overhauled the guardianship statute and adopted the Massachusetts Uniform Probate Code (MUPC), embodying a legislative intent to limit guardianships wherever possible.25 The MUPC does not address voting rights specifically, but under the MUPC, as with the Uniform Probate Code generally, courts must limit the scope of guardianships to encourage the development of maximum self-reliance and independence of the person under guardianship.26 The MUPC goes on to say that, once appointed, guardians should encourage the person under guardianship to participate in decisions, to act on his own behalf, and to develop or regain the capacity to manage personal affairs. A guardian, to the extent known, shall consider the expressed desires and personal values of the person under guardianship when making decisions.27 These aspects of the MUPC are consistent with the Boyd and Hurley decisions and with the opinion of the Elections Division.
With respect to guardianship, the current version of the Massachusetts Official Mail-In Voter Registration Form also reflects the position of the Elections Division. Unlike the 1985 registration form that Mr. Hurley encountered, the current form requires only that the voter swear I am not a person under a guardianship which prohibits my registering to vote.28 And the current guardianship order promulgated by the Massachusetts Probate and Family Court includes an enumerated list of limitations on guardianship, among them the right to vote.29 While the Massachusetts constitution and voter qualification statute still expressly prohibit voting by persons under guardianship, agency rules and guardianship procedures provide some protection for persons under guardianship who want to vote. Where does this place Massachusetts in the federal voting scheme and in relation to other states?
Dem2
(8,168 posts)I think it's awesome that they are getting these people to the polling station. The issue is of coercion, which if proven (unlikely in this case) is prosecutable by the attorney general under a law forbidding coercion of lower functioning persons.
Old Codger
(4,205 posts)If mentally ill people can run for office(as proven by the current R's) the they should be able to vote also.
HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Blind Ambition and no moral compass.
UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)I'm just floored........
Hazelrah
(150 posts)FYI
BTW, when did we decide that possible voter fraud was not worthy of discussion?
****************************
On Thu Mar 3, 2016, 08:19 PM an alert was sent on the following post:
NightSide Voter Fraud In Massachusetts?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511407704
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Can we stop with the silly conspiracy theories are ready. The Sanders campaign is not alleging any shenanigans so it would be nice if his supporters followed their candidates lead
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Mar 3, 2016, 08:23 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: CBS is alleging a conspiracy theory? I doubt it. HRC supporters can make all the denials they want, but they have to deal with CBS first before getting this post hidden.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I thought voter fraud was something we all cared about, you know, as being that we are d-e-m-o-c-r-a-t-s. Putting that aside nothing in this post is "disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate". Really getting tired of people using the alert system to silence discussion.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: People need to quit alerting posts for every little perceived slight. It's primary season folks, and folks need to chill out.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
JudyM
(29,233 posts)WTH? Partisan-blindness much?
Here's to the alerter and those jurors:
noamnety
(20,234 posts)"The Sanders campaign is not alleging any shenanigans so it would be nice if his supporters followed their candidates lead "
If the situation was reversed and the Sanders campaign put this out and it wasn't on CBS, then we'd be hearing that it wasn't in the mainstream media so it didn't happen.
This thread and my thread about blocking access for the disabled was alerted on........amazing
stranger81
(2,345 posts)ReallyIAmAnOptimist
(357 posts)...that the Hillary campaign,
after losing to Obama in '08,
has planned for every contingency on how to make sure she "wins".
Voters are just a pesky annoyance...