2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumI PROUDLY STAND WITH BULLHORN BILL
Reality: Bill Clinton created 25 million jobs. Longest stretch of peacetime in US history. Lowest black unemployment rate in US history. Nominated the 2 most liberal justices in US history. Raised taxes on the rich. And handed over a budget surplus.
Seriously guys, if everyone must pass a purity test, no one will. He was a southern Democrat in the 90s who had to claw back power from 12 years of Republican rule during the height of the conservative revolution. What were ya'll expecting, an ultra progressive warrior?
Its 2016.
TM99
(8,352 posts)haikugal
(6,476 posts)roguevalley
(40,656 posts)when bill was excelling in the bubble and I was there when it burst. Now we have NAFTA and the rest. Enjoy your diminished life, youngsters.
haikugal
(6,476 posts)The end justifies the means.
AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)It's no secret that they cheated in the Iowa and Nevada caucuses this year. There is video of Hillary people buzzing registration and going straight into the caucuses to vote without registering. And Massachusetts also fell of the back of a truck. In all three states, exit polling predicted Bernie the winner but close enough that they dared steal it. Their desperation is palpable.
I don't know if you recall, but Keith Olbermann in one of his special reports accused Hillary of running against Obama as if she were the Republican and he the Democrat. She is repeating that performance in precisely the same way. And her fans are FINE with it. By any means necessary. If she snatches the nomination, she will lose guaranteed. Both my kids (20s, 30s) have declared it's Bernie over Trump, Trump over Clinton. Young people don't feel an allegiance to any party, they feel an allegiance to truth.
bkkyosemite
(5,792 posts)TM99
(8,352 posts)if what he did was unethical or borderline illegal.
That has been made quite apparent.
bkkyosemite
(5,792 posts)distraction....what was happening in that polling place or places for hours while voters waiting outside....maybe we will find out some time in the future.....maybe.
CajunBlazer
(5,648 posts)Let's assume the worst for just a moment - how many potential Sanders voters suddenly decided to vote for Hillary Clinton because Bill shook their hands in a voting center? Would the presence of Bill Clinton make you abandon Bernie? You're sure not giving Bernie voters much credit.
But let's a few of them got all weak kneed in the presence of the "great man". How many did affect 2, 3, 10...? How much did the votes of those few people affect the state results? Easy answer: None, zero, zip, nada....
Surely you folks have greater concerns that this.
Omaha Steve
(99,630 posts)CajunBlazer
(5,648 posts)So if a former President of the United States causes a traffic jam, he's violating the Americans with Disabilities Act.
And oh, by the way, Hillary just happened to win that precinct - so I guess Bill just blocked Bernie's voters. That's one heck of a trick; Bill's better than I thought.
Kittycat
(10,493 posts)That protects people with disabilities. Okay Trump. Fuck off!
CajunBlazer
(5,648 posts)What's funny is that someone would post stuff like this.
dchill
(38,489 posts)Knowingly. With a bullhorn.
Can you point to another incident in history where a guy with a bullhorn caused a traffic jam and got himself arrested for violating the Americans with Disabilities Act. If so, could you point me to the Article and Section of the law that the guy was supposed to have violated.
Do you realize how silly this is?
dchill
(38,489 posts)And it's only (snicker) one of a handful (guffaw) of laws he broke (snicker) that day. One wonders why (haw, haw) we even have them (hyperventilate) on the books. (Wheeze)
Oh, that's right - they DO apply to the rest of us.
CajunBlazer
(5,648 posts)Nah,...okay, then maybe the FBI... or some federal agency. They probably could use a good laugh too.
dchill
(38,489 posts)Besides, I'm not from Massachusetts. Are you?
CajunBlazer
(5,648 posts)dchill
(38,489 posts)I feel greedy being the only person replying to you so, goodbye!
Omaha Steve
(99,630 posts)CajunBlazer
(5,648 posts)I'm amused that someone would actually post this stuff. That not just funny, that's hilarious.
Thanks, it's not been the best of days and I needed a good laugh. Thanks again!
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)It is however a despicable comment which should never appear on a Democratic discussion board.
I respectfully disagree.
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)On Thu Mar 3, 2016, 09:03 PM an alert was sent on the following post:
Whoa, let's back up here
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1409089
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Making fun of the disabled and ADA. Hide it!
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Mar 3, 2016, 09:12 PM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Tacky response but not OTT
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Um, no. Not making fun of Americans with disabilities.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The poster is an ass and mockingly dismissing blatant voter suppression and, yes, an ADA violation. I highly doubt this poster shares liberal values, but then several Democrats do not (many in Leadership).
However, this is not a post mocking the disabled personally or the ADA. It is just a crass ignorant post, and from a poster from whom I have come to expect exactly this. Vote to leave it alone.
(this is an example of a juror being disgusted with the comment but voting to leave because the highly objectionable comment does not quite violate community standards)
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No the person is not!
monmouth4
(9,705 posts)JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)bkkyosemite
(5,792 posts)MaggieD
(7,393 posts)JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)Well played.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)JeaneRaye
(402 posts)Apparently not when it comes to election law violations.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)Then we can discuss. In the meantime, facts.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/01/politics/bill-clinton-campaigning-polling-place-super-tuesday/index.html
jillan
(39,451 posts)JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Love to see BC out having fun on the campaign trail. Thankie for the thread!
noamnety
(20,234 posts)"An oft-repeated myth about the Clinton administration is that although it was overly tough on crime back in the 1990s, at least its policies were good for the economy and for black unemployment rates. The truth is more troubling. As unemployment rates sank to historically low levels for white Americans in the 1990s, the jobless rate among black men in their 20s who didnt have a college degree rose to its highest level ever. This increase in joblessness was propelled by the skyrocketing incarceration rate.
Why is this not common knowledge? Because government statistics like poverty and unemployment rates do not include incarcerated people. As Harvard sociologist Bruce Western explains: Much of the optimism about declines in racial inequality and the power of the US model of economic growth is misplaced once we account for the invisible poor, behind the walls of Americas prisons and jails. When Clinton left office in 2001, the true jobless rate for young, non-college-educated black men (including those behind bars) was 42 percent. This figure was never reported. Instead, the media claimed that unemployment rates for African Americans had fallen to record lows, neglecting to mention that this miracle was possible only because incarceration rates were now at record highs. Young black men werent looking for work at high rates during the Clinton era because they were now behind barsout of sight, out of mind, and no longer counted in poverty and unemployment statistics."
http://www.thenation.com/article/hillary-clinton-does-not-deserve-black-peoples-votes/
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)It actually started decreasing on his watch.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)who is clawing their way back to power after 12 years of Republican rule.
The pendulum swings and right now it is swinging in our direction. Now is not the time to try to stop it. We need someone who sets progressive goals even if they are out of reach in the short term.
We need Bernie Sanders.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)So, if that is your metric I think you are indeed going to have to "settle."
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)MaggieD
(7,393 posts)Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)Remember?
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)He added Democratic when he started running
bigtree
(85,996 posts)...it's reality-based politics.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)Or when she spent 19 minutes echoing Shrub so others would vote for the IRW along with her?
Or when she claimed Marriage was a SACRED union between a man and a woman, then flipping on it when the polls went in the other direction.
Or when she claimed repeatedly to have run from sniper fire in Bosnia?
Or when she claimed some black children were super predators who needed to be brought to heel?
Or when she worked to elect a segregationist President?
The list goes on and on... Isn't all of it just reality based politics?
bigtree
(85,996 posts)...critics on the left still haven't clued in to how much that petty politics galls most Democrats.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)Double standards are only used by those who need them.
bigtree
(85,996 posts)...no one here had to make that up.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)bigtree
(85,996 posts)...I do know he's said it's based on a European model of economic socialism and called himself 'a 'socialist' countless times in his career without including the Democratic part.
It's a nonsense label meant to opportunistically keep the Democratic party at a distance; a Democrat when it suits his politics, like in this election.
JeaneRaye
(402 posts)That Bernie Sanders stands for the very principles that the Democratic Party was founded on, right? You can throw around terms like 'socialist", like its dirty, but people were doing the same thing with the term "liberal" just a few years back. If you enjoy the benefits of"socialism" such as fire protection, police protection, infrastructure, Social Security or Medicare than you are a socialist too. So stop acting like it a bad thing.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)Is that seriously your position?
bigtree
(85,996 posts)...for his brand of 'revolution.'
Either that, or stand aside as our coalition of Democrats continues the progress Obama has made.
^snip^
Dems vs Trump:
Clinton 52 - Trump 44
Sanders 55- Trump 43
Dems vs Rubio:
Clinton 47 - Rubio 50
Sanders 53- Rubio 45
Dems vs Cruz:
Clinton 48 - Cruz 49
Sanders 57- Cruz 40
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)They will not unload on his socialism, love for Russia and other communistic countries, his weird, almost Todd Akin style essays from his 30's, his foreign policy faux pas.
And be real - he can't get nominated by the party so far. He's looking bad. Nothing is looking up in the near future. If you can't get through a primary it is silly to think you'd get through a GE. She's being NICE to him in comparison.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)I sure hope that bubble is comfortable. It seems that you will never be able to escape it.
CajunBlazer
(5,648 posts)Marr
(20,317 posts)They literally have nothing but adolescent insults. Confronted with polling data, the former 'electability is everything' crowd just sticks out their tongue and starts tossing out silly insults. There's nothing consistent in their arguments, apart from the constant theme of 'it's Hillary's turn'.
Gore1FL
(21,132 posts)rather than run around with their hair on fire knowing only that it sounds scary when some people say it.
bigtree
(85,996 posts)...actually enabling Sanders with unaccountable right-wing money in our primary against Hillary.
The kneecapping would come later for this presidential election neophyte.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)They have already run some ads against him.
More importantly, Hillary's numbers never go up. As pointed out by Lawrence O'Donnell, on air after a (D) debate. Hillary starts out at a peak and her numbers just go down from there.
Look at those numbers. They will be remembered as the good old days.
bigtree
(85,996 posts)...which outstrips the smaller number of voters who have bothered to show up for Bernie at the polls which count.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)To mischaracterize the entire country based on those results is dishonest.
bigtree
(85,996 posts)...Louisiana, Mississippi, Illinois, Missouri, North Carolina, and Ohio, all polling with Clinton leading comfortably.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)that meme has disappeared
CajunBlazer
(5,648 posts)MaggieD
(7,393 posts)I have personal experience with extremism standing in the way of actual progress. And that is exactly what I see Bernie proposing. Obstacles - not viable solutions. And that is his history. It is precisely why he has so few actual legislative achievements over the course of 25 years in congress.
bigtree
(85,996 posts)...despite his agreement to coordinate with the DNC.
Fine, if he doesn't want to work with the party organization, but there's no apparent alternative in place or even considered by Sanders and his campaign. We've already seen and lived the results of politicians who do little more than just say 'no' or offer viable, supportable alternatives; not just throwing up pie-in-the-sky proposals which don't have a chance in hell of being enacted.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)It couldn't be more clear. And it's also clear he has no interest in helping the Dems elect down ticket candidates that could help enact progressive proposals. THAT is what makes his proposals even more pie in the sky than they already seem. IMO.
CajunBlazer
(5,648 posts)noretreatnosurrender
(1,890 posts)I worked on Bill Clinton's campaign in 1992. I did not work on it 4 years later because of what he did in the first 4 years. I think the image of Bill Clinton with that bullhorn outside of a polling place is pathetic. Hopefully one day you will see why.
AzDar
(14,023 posts)SheenaR
(2,052 posts)While terror organizations grew
And the .com era was responsible for a lot more of the prosperity than Clinton.
Not going to get into anything he did to minority communities because according to DU since I am not one I am not allowed to provide analysis
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)MaggieD
(7,393 posts)Thanks. K&R!
Logical
(22,457 posts)Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)Last edited Fri Mar 4, 2016, 10:09 AM - Edit history (1)
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Up to now it's only been implied. So good on you for actually making it overt.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)MaggieD
(7,393 posts)You think Bill doesn't know the laws? You and Bernie supporters know better? Bill is just stupid? Face it - you're pissed that a Dem rock star happens to be your opposition's spouse, and you want an excuse for why Bernie lost.
Whatever.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)But hey, which should I believe? Video of what he did, or your beliefs?
LOL!
jeff47
(26,549 posts)So it's abundantly clear you really don't care.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)marions ghost
(19,841 posts)there absolutely are laws in every state to prevent what Bullhorn Billy did.
It was arrogant and crass, but it was also illegal.
tularetom
(23,664 posts)He was handing the entire country over to the bankers, the 1% and Wall Street. The results of his disastrous presidency are only now becoming apparent. He was only marginally less of a nightmare than Bush Jr. He might actually be worse because unlike Bush, he lacks the good grace and common decency to just go away and count his money.
The country as a whole is fed up with his white trash drama.
bigtree
(85,996 posts)...and blending it into their politics against our former Democratic president.
tularetom
(23,664 posts)Particularly those who got the most things done like Roosevelt, Kennedy and Johnson. And they were smart enough to keep a lid on it.
Maybe if Obama and Carter would have had something going on, they could have accomplished more.
But Bill Clinton was the only one stupid enough to get caught repeatedly and have it blow up in his face. Monica Lewinsky wasn't the only one ya know.
bigtree
(85,996 posts)...people harping on it just believe it will hurt the Clintons.
Not much evidence of that.
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)Newton went to Hillary 61%-37%! By 4,000 votes. Wow, Bill's bullhorn must have been amazing to block up 4,000 Sanders voters in an area that went heavily for Clinton, in just a little over an hour. He sure picked the right hour!
What about New Bedford? Huh? Huh? Went to Clinton 55-44, again by more than a thousand votes
Honestly, people will latch on to anything when they're losing.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)That's just a fact. He knows it. MA voters know it. Even GOP voters know it. Dog forbid he show up and shake hands. The fact that he does that is why they effin love him.
Bernie should try a bit of that. It would probably help.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)It's indicative of Clinton sleaze...and it is illegal.
But the ethically challenged don't see any problem
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)It's What's For Dinner.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)that because he's done good stuff in the past, it's OK for him to do bad, or at least careless and ill-advised, stuff in the present.
Ooooooookaaaaaay....
me b zola
(19,053 posts)great white snark
(2,646 posts)Hekate
(90,683 posts)I wonder if anyone remembers? Or has Clinton Derangement Syndrome spread that far into the Democratic Party?
Vattel
(9,289 posts)He didn't create 25 million jobs. Just because something happens during a president's term doesn't mean he caused it to happen.
He didn't preside over the longest stretch of peacetime in US history. There was a 33 year stretch between the Civil War and the Spanish-American war.
Ginsberg and Breyer are not the most liberal justices in US history. Ginsberg is very liberal, God bless her, but Breyer, besides being kind of second rate, is less liberal than many other supreme court justices in US history. He is even less liberal than Stevens and Souter were, and they were both appointed by Republicans..
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)Ain't you special.
Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)d_legendary1
(2,586 posts)then more power to you! Peacetime is great if you ignore Kosovo, the Iraq bombings, and the WTC bombing. He raised taxes on the wealthy and also raised taxes on Social Security income (from 50% to 80%), which oddly enough contributed to the surplus.
He also created the DLC and the third way Dems. So stand proud and say it loud: Long live the Clintons!
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)And yes he still continues to be respected. He speaks and many listen.
R B Garr
(16,953 posts)because he's so popular. Hillary has two Presidents in her corner. They would take that in a heartbeat if they could, so this is all sour grapes.
elmac
(4,642 posts)and if I were a republican I would vote for him today.
Gorgatron
(95 posts)BeatleBoot
(7,111 posts)Did my best when he was President.
valerief
(53,235 posts)cer7711
(502 posts)Last edited Fri Mar 4, 2016, 01:39 AM - Edit history (1)
Thus, time for not-a-Clinton to capture the presidency--
a once-in-a-lifetime, FDR-like figure to reverse the ever-rightward drift of this plutocratic oligarchy.
CajunBlazer
(5,648 posts)Read your history, there is absolutely no comparison between FDR and Bernie starting with, but certainly not limited to the fact that FDR won the Presidency four times and Bernie can't even win "his" party's nomination.
zentrum
(9,865 posts)
.lost by Americans and shipped overseas because of NAFTA. But it took a while. These were relatively high paying jobs with benefits. The jobs that increased (in large numbers) were low paying service jobs. Not sure where you get the stat of 25 Millionwhere can I see it?
Tremendous increase in growth of Prison Industry. Criminalization of poverty and the results of poverty.
Great increase in poverty of families on welfare, which is still playing out.
Deregulation of banking which is still playing out.
Creation of the DLC and the massive corporatization of our Party, which we may never recover from.
MisterP
(23,730 posts)people don't count as unemployed in jail
Telecom Bill, Glass-Steagall, DMCA
he spent three years giving the GOP fodder because he pulled a Piterberg
and he broke the law six times in Massachusetts
Loudestlib
(980 posts)A white guy that is seeing the way black folk are treated and he does something about it. The clubs came out, he was manhandled and chained up. Yet he kept fighting. Now over 40 years later people are telling him that it doesn't matter. What have you done for me lately?
I love the Clinton's for what they did, but the 90's were a different time. We now have income equality that's higher than during the Great Depression. Unarmed black folks are getting gunned down in the streets by COPS. The bankers get away with doing what ever they want and buying whoever they need.
Now is the time we need that Jewish guy from the Bronx. We need that guy that would risk chains and clubs to fight us.
CajunBlazer
(5,648 posts)If that were a qualification, a whole lot of people would be lined up in front of a guy who got arrested once during a protest at the university he was attending. Thousands of people took far more risks with their lives multiple times in the battle for civil rights. Many were beaten, had dogs set on them, endured countless humiliations, and some died for the cause. Let's not act like we have some kind of civil rights icon here.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)Nyan
(1,192 posts)Is this for real?
jillan
(39,451 posts)LS_Editor
(893 posts)For trying to sell Americans a Democratic Party that is simply Republican-lite.
CajunBlazer
(5,648 posts)Thanks for your concern though.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)Bernie is going to lose, but Hillary is not going to lose.
JeaneRaye
(402 posts)The fact remains that he broke election laws and he should know better. I wonder if you would be standing behind Republicans when they flip votes. What he did is called voter intimidation. Also, the fact that some of those polls were closed down for a while may have kept people who only had a narrow window in which to vote, from doing doing just that.
Armymedic88
(251 posts)It's more of a center center country... with a young generation of Liberals! Get over the 90's it's 2016! BTW the rust belt is still suffering because of BULLSHIT BILL!!
basselope
(2,565 posts)More liberal than Thurgood Marshall, Earl Warren or William Brennan??
Sorry, but... no.
And what stretch of peacetime are you talking about? We were dropping bombs all over the damn place under Clinton.
And sorry to burst your Clinton bubble, but the dot com BUBBLE created 25 million jobs. The de-regulation he continued from the Reagan administration led to the crash in 2008.
He was, as Michael Moore said.. the best Republican President of our lifetimes.. that is until Obama came along.
longship
(40,416 posts)In none of those states was anybody allowed to campaign within a certain distance from the polling entrance and certainly not within the building! It was illegal in all three states! With good fucking reason!
Why? Because voting is one of those sacred things of a democracy of the people, by the people, and for the people.
There are very good reasons for these laws. If campaigning were allowed near the polling places it may interfere with people's access to the polls! Which is precisely what happened with Bullhorn Bill. (Love him, but he was very wrong to do that.)
The campaign ends on election morning when the polls open. PERIOD! If one is in trouble then, it's too late to turn a victory.
If you campaign in or near the polls you've probably violated voting restrictions in every state of the country.
It is that simple. And anybody who has worked the polls knows that because one is not allowed to work the polls unless one takes training to understand the law and the requirements.
Big Dawg screwed up. I don't think he changed the outcome, but it did not look good. It looked smarmy!
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Everything they do and say is calculated to the "meaning of "is" is" level....
Which means I guess that we disagree on semantics.
longship
(40,416 posts)Which is some kind of fucked up.
And BTW totally unnecessary!
The fucking campaign is over when the polls open and, as you say, Big Dawg knew it.
It's the optics on this very strange thing which is bad. I don't blame Bernie supporters (of which I call myself) for claiming attempted voter cheating. I don't go that far because I don't think Bill swayed the election. But this is precisely the kind of fucking dirty trick that Nixon's ratfuckers would try.
That is why those regulations are in place in the first fucking place! To eliminate even a hint of attempting to cheat.
It gives truth to the ongoing narrative that Hillary will try anything to gain power, just like fucking Tricky Dick Nixon.
Now is this where Hillary wants to be a few weeks into the primary season? If so, I recommend that that Bernie's staff keep their fucking eyes open. And Hillary supporters wonder why some Bernie supporters claim that they can never vote for her. With overtly unethical stunts like this, sometimes I don't blame them.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Enough with the sour grapes "send him to prison" crowd.
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)you're standing in illegally in a protected zone of the highest order.
desmiller
(747 posts)CBGLuthier
(12,723 posts)Rules are for others. Laws are for others. Principled behavior is for others.
Contrary1
(12,629 posts)And, if you are expecting an 8 year re-run of the pre-multi-millionaire Bill and Hillary years, you're in for a big disappointment.