So, do red states count, or not?

[lunamagica]

I'm confused

[redstateblues]

1. Only when Bernie wins one

[JonLeibowitz]

9. Please see Post #6. Thanks! n/t

[RobertEarl]

12. Kansas is a well known socialist state

It is no surprise Kansas put Bernie over the top: 68 to 32.

Seriously tho, after seeing what Kansas did, red state blue has taken on a whole new meaning. Seems Bernie has done the impossible - turning a red state blue.

[LonePirate]

16. Bernie is not turning KS blue. KS totals from today: Bernie = 26,450 Cruz = 35,207.

[RobertEarl]

17. Turning is activity

Who knew that our fellow Democrats in Kansas were so gung-ho for socialism? I am very proud of them tonight.

[LonePirate]

18. Yes, there is plenty for Bernie to be proud of w/respect to KS. It's still a red state come the GE.

[firebrand80]

2. Depends nt

[JonLeibowitz]

8. Please see Post #6. Thank you.

[morningfog]

3. Democrats in red states count in the delegate based nomination process.

But do not mean much for the general election performance consideration.

[bravenak]

4. Today they do.

[JonLeibowitz]

6. Nebraska assigns delegates partly by congressional district.

Obama won one in 2008, and a democrat represents one of the districts in congress currently.

Not wise to count that out. Of course, foolhardy to rely on it as part of general election strategy.

[Cali_Democrat]

19. What about Oklahoma and Kansas? nt

[JonLeibowitz]

20. My remarks did not address those states.

[Cali_Democrat]

25. But they do count, right? nt

[JonLeibowitz]

26. They do send pledged and unpledged delegates to the convention, yes.

[Cali_Democrat]

28. Cool.

Bernie supporters tried to write off some of Clinton's victories in the South because they were red states.

Well, Bernie just won two red states today.

Good to know that all states count.

[JonLeibowitz]

29. Some may have. Not me.

I continue to maintain however, that they represent a conservative Democrat firewall of ideology, designed by the DLC to protect against just such a situation as now.

The map ahead is more favorable to Bernie, but perhaps not favorable enough to overtake her.

Of course, their voices matter. I am not however naiive enough to think that the primary calendar is a complete coincidence to be more conservative.

And perhaps you missed my point earlier: Despite being a generally red state, Nebraska actually has one electoral vote that Democrats could win. And Bernie won that state.

[Garrett78]

31. I'll be *shocked* if Sanders wins...

...a majority of the remaining pledged delegates. That would be a monumental upset. He can't just win Maine, Idaho, Wyoming, etc. He has to win the likes of Michigan, Illinois, Florida, Maryland, North Carolina, California, etc. States with 100+ delegates and a Democratic electorate that is more representative of the overall Democratic electorate. Without doing so, this race will become more of a blowout, not less of one.

[Garrett78]

30. And when all is said and done...

...it will be Sanders who accumulated more of his delegates in "red" states. That's almost for certain. The fact is not many blue states have held their primaries yet, particularly not the ones with a large number of delegates/people.

[NurseJackie]

5. I guess it depends on one's mood and which particular shade of red you're talking about.

Red, crimson, maroon, wine, burgundy, scarlet, cherry. So many choices. (Does this go with my shoes? Does this color make me look fat?)

:-D

[JonLeibowitz]

7. Please see Post #6.

[Beacool]

10. They don't count only if they're in the South.

The other red states are OK.

[JDPriestly]

34. None of them will count in November.

http://www.270towin.com/historical-presidential-elections/

[Beacool]

40. I was being facetious.

Some of Sanders' supporters have been dismissive of Hillary's wins in Southern states, but cheering Sanders when he won in other red states. They can't have it both ways, if in their eyes the Southern red states don't count, then his wins in other red states shouldn't count either.

[lumberjack_jeff]

11. Yes... but sadly, only for Republicans. n/t

[ConsiderThis_2016]

13. Winning the red states...

Is like Winning a Rolls Royce without an engine, like winning a computer without an operating system... Like spending $10 buck for a grab bag worth $5. Winning a red state is good if your a republican though.

[Rebkeh]

14. It depends. In the primary, they matter

For electability, meaning the general, not much. Even more so if the dem nominee is part of the establishment. Tipping the scale is unlikely as it is, for a beltway insider, it's even less likely.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

21. This election is going to be weird anyhow so

anything can happen Bernie is likely to beat the Republicans because he appeals across the spectrum. Trump will probably be out.

[Rebkeh]

22. Agreed nt

[Qutzupalotl]

15. All states matter.

Even the west coast.

[Gwhittey]

23. I never saw anyone saw Red States did not matter

Mostly I saw people reacting to HRC supporters following the talking points that HRC camp had M$M put out that Sanders should quit Right after SC. Then right after that we started seeing the race baiting by HRC camp about POC and many posts on here calling people racist when they said SC will not matter in the GE. Why are people so freaking upset about that? I live in SC and I know my vote does not matter for POTUS, I come from NY so I am used to it.

Funny how the media used the Super delegates to fool people into thinking that she had more than she actually did. But also sad many on the forum fell for it. You would think people who have more access than cable news TV who are owned by mostly GOP people and are going to push a narrative to ensure a POTUS who will help them make more money would know better.

[Garrett78]

24. They all count, of course, but some do count for more.

Some red states have far more Democrats than do other red states. And since we're talking about Democratic primaries, it doesn't matter much where the delegates are accumulated. Obama dominated the Deep South in '08 and then won the general election with ease. Clinton and Sanders aren't competing for the Republican vote in Alabama or Oklahoma or anywhere else. They're competing for the Democratic vote.

MI, IL, FL, NC and OH are the next 5 states that will have a major impact on the outcome.

[JDPriestly]

35. Obama won only Virginia and swing state Florida in November 2008 according to this map.

He won only Florida in November 2012.

http://www.270towin.com/historical-presidential-elections/

Southern states count for the convention, but are irrelevant to the outcome of the general presidential election.

Same for Kansas, Nebraska and Oklahoma pretty much if past results predict what will happen this year.

Of course, this year could be an outlier.

[Garrett78]

37. I was referring to the '08 primary...

...when I said Obama dominated the Deep South. Some seem to be suggesting that winning primaries in the Deep South somehow means Clinton won't do well in the general election, but that's fallacious (to put it mildly).

Louisiana's Democratic electorate is more representative of the overall/national Democratic electorate than is the Democratic electorate of Nebraska, Vermont, Kansas, Oklahoma, Maine, Idaho, Wyoming, Utah, etc.

It isn't that Clinton can only win "red" or southern states. It's that Clinton wins states with more diversity and more delegates/people. You can't win the nomination by winning a bunch of small states that lack diversity.

[consciouslocs]

38. He won NC in 2008 GE

I lived in NC at the time. It would be hell of a lift to repeat with new voting restrictions in place and the shortening of the early voting period.

[msanthrope]

27. It depends. The more racially homogenous they are, the more they seem to count. nt

[JDPriestly]

36. Here are maps that give you an idea of what will count in November.

http://www.270towin.com/historical-presidential-elections/

Liberal states that have not yet voted will count as will swing states.

Democrats in Southern states, Kansas, Oklahoma and Nebraska among others need to get their acts together if a Democrat is to win them in November.

It's going to take a lot of activism to make any progress in those states.

[JDPriestly]

33. They count for the Democratic convention, but they don't count in November.

Louisiana, Nebraska (hasn't voted for a Democrat for president since 1964) and Kansas are not likely to vote for either Hillary or Bernie in November, but they still count toward delegats in the convention.

The liberal states like California, Oregon and Washington will vote later. California with 546 delegates is likely to vote Democratic in November, but we don't vote until June 7.

That's why Hillary's early lead should not be taken too seriously. The primary season is front-loaded with ultra conservative states. The South which Hillary won -- very conservative and probably will not vote for Hillary in the majority in November.

Those delegates are misleading. This system rewards states that are conservative by having them vote first in the primaries. That tends to move our presidential candidates to the right.

We need a complete overhaul of the primary system.

[RunInCircles]

39. Oh please lets face facts

Bernie supporter here. Bernie is being crushed (so far) by the AA vote. He has not connected certainly in the deep south.
We need to not marginalize this in a trivial fashion it is a fact and the AA vote has real power within the Democratic party.
I wish we could win over more AA's but we are not going to do that on a message board. If the AA community in states such as Michigan, Ohio, and elsewhere maintain the same voting pattern as AA's in SC, GA , etc. we are unlikely to make up our current deficit. So their votes matter a lot and how we treat and show respect for their choices matters a lot. So yes, red states count, AA votes count. Based upon the overwhelming ~80% voting for Hillary they see something we don't. It would be nice if we could see it too so we could work on mending some bridges but that is a slow process and would require outreach during times when we are not asking them for their vote. If we are building a movement than remember we need to listen, support and respect AA's Latino's etc. and we need to do this outside of the primary season.
That being said I believe in Bernie's message and and I believe in his record and I will not stop fighting to make him the next POTUS. I will not stop donating to his campaign so that he has the resources to get his message out there. Some times you need to take a leap of faith that the good decent person can win. It will not be over for me until I cast my vote on June 7. And I will not stop raising the serious concerns I have with Hillary's record, judgment, and honesty.
So I question Hillary supporters votes and their reasons but I still respect your right to choose differently from me. (Ok I'll be honest I am still working on this because I want my better angels to win but the dark side seems so easy.)
The revolution will continue. So I read your question as do AA votes matter. They matter very much and they will probably decide who wins the Democratic primary. Will AA's vote in the same pattern in northern states as they have voted in southern states is the real question. This answer is still to be determined.

[Lizzie Poppet]

41. Not in November, regardless of whether they went for Hillary or Bernie in the primary.

That's just a fact of American political life, at least until we finally get rid of the Electoral College and actually democratically elect presidents.