As a woman who fought for gender equality in the 1970s let me define sexist for you....

[jillan]

A sexist is when someone does not think that men and women are equal.

Let me explain it in other words...

When Hillary and Bernie are up on that debate stage, there are 2 candidates running for President of the United States.
It is irrelevant that one is a man and one is a woman.

So when Bernie says "excuse me let me finish, you'll have your turn to tell your story" - that is not sexist.

What IS sexist is when people say - oh my gosh! can you believe he said that to her.

Bernie would have said the same exact thing to Joe Biden if it was Biden standing next to him and kept trying to interrupt him.
The rules are not different just because Hillary is a woman.

And for those of you that say Hillary should be treated differently than Joe Biden would've been treated if it was him on the stage instead of her - that is the most sexist thing you could possibly say.

We fought for equality & not special treatment for women.

[elleng]

1. THANK YOU for saying it.

Too bad it had to be said, REALLY too bad that 'informed' people don't understand it.

[jillan]

7. I am really really tired of this discussion. I had to say it.

[elleng]

8. So am I tired of it.

And the way he 'waves his hands,' and 'points his finger at her!' WTF!!!

[Matariki]

53. Truth is, it's not *really* about sexism

It's just the Sanders has given them so few things to really latch on and spin negatively the they're grabbing any and everyting they can.

[RufusTFirefly]

77. Bingo! It's very hard to attack him on the issues.

Au contraire. In many cases, they've been parroting him on the issues.
Clinton's calling for the Michigan governor's resignation is just the latest in a long string of "evolutions." People who doubt her sincerity can be pretty confident that they are awake and paying attention.

[Baobab]

154. Hillary and Bill's trade deal will effectively replace laws forbidding discrimination against women

and minorities in employment with a massive international bidding for contracts in a soon to be privatized public sector with international laws that forbid discriminating against foreign corporations many of which likely hire few if any women (and they are all from other countries) The changes are likely to push wages down substantially in the allegedly overpaid service sectors targeted, by suddenly changing the quasi-public work place to require an incremental privatization and globalization.. (called progressive liberalisation, google that term)

[Mira]

115. Those are my thoughts as well.

In the German language there is an expression for it: "it's like pulling worms out of your nose"

[RufusTFirefly]

159. It's a despicable demonstration of misdirection

Remember in the debate between Dubya and Kerry, how Kerry quoted Dubya verbatim about not being concerned about Bin Laden?

"I don't know where he is. I really just don't spend that much time on him, to be honest with you." -- George W. Bush, referring to OBL

It was an extremely damaging admission from someone who supposedly started a war in retaliation. And Kerry quoted him exactly

Yet the next day, instead of being the top story from the debate, nearly all the focus was on whether Kerry was wrong to mention Cheney's daughter in his defense of gay rights.

"The table has tilted folks. The game is rigged. And nobody seems to notice. Nobody seems to care." -- George Carlin

[appalachiablue]

190. Righto.

[LeFleur1]

219. UM

I don't think he would have said it to a man. But maybe he would have. It was rude no matter who he said it to. As is the seeming self importance in waving his hand around instead of waiting his turn to speak. That's what people are commenting on, I think. His rudeness.

[elleng]

221. Trying to get cooper's attention so he can speak is NOT rude,

but such complaints are similar to when Martin O'Malley tried to insert himself into DEBATES. Failing to get attention is untenable, in these circumstances.

[LeFleur1]

234. Since There Were Only Two of Them...

...on the stage, I'm pretty sure Cooper knew he would want a turn to talk. Sanders actions were off putting and rude. Clinton waited quietly while he gave his speeches about what is wrong and why he voted to shut down the auto manufacturing plants. He could have waited until she finished telling what plans she has laid forth to help move America forward.
Interrupting once in awhile is understandable. Constantly waving his hand when his opponent was talking was rude.

[TDale313]

2. Thank you and I agree completely.

I think it's really offensive that people are making it out like Bernie was being sexist for not letting her interrupt. And yes, I'm a woman and a feminist. And that kind of shit does not help.

[PyaarRevolution]

172. I'm not a woman.

But I consider myself a dyed in the wool feminist and Hillary was getting way too much of a pass for foul shit because she was a woman. It seemed like she trailed on for far longer in the debate when Anderson was trying to get her to stop as she had long passed the time allotted.

[noretreatnosurrender]

3. Thank you!

I too worked for gender equality in the 70s all the way through to today. It is insulting for the Hillary campaign to use women like this. It's damaging to women and it pisses me off to no end. Shame on you! You owe all the women in this country an apology.

Signed,

Angry feminist

[Jenny_92808]

213. I feel the same way you do.

I have worked in male dominated fields since the 70's and know what real sexism is.

I have to admit that I am enjoying some satisfaction by doing the full-ignore on all those who flood this thread to say otherwise.

[flor-de-jasmim]

4. [phone]!

[Mufaddal]

5. You and your appeals to reason and logic

Clearly you are just a self-hating woman. Every man knows that it is only inappropriate to say that when a man is interrupting you, and not when a woman is interrupting you, because all women are delicate flowers and cannot withstand being told to adhere to debate rules without coming down with a case of the vapors and fainting.

[Jenny_92808]

214. Thank you for bringing sanity to

this discussion. Loved it when you said "because (hillary voters think) all women are delicate flowers and cannot withstand being told to adhere to debate rules without coming down with a case of the vapors and fainting."

[silvershadow]

6. Oh, they have to pretend to have something to be outraged about. Poutrage. nt

[BernieforPres2016]

18. Particularly when Hillary got trounced in the debate

If she had a good night, they wouldn't need to go to this nonsense. It is Plan B.

[merrily]

9. Overuse of the woman card is, IMO, potentially very detrimental to women, esp those who need jobs.

No one wants to put up with "unless you allow me to interrupt you, you're sexist" And no employer wants to be taken to the EEOC over that kind of thing, either.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1069362

[Armstead]

10. "I'm as tough as any man but I am a fragile flower who must be treated gently"

That's the message her campaign seems to be sending, ---- at least that's how this confused male interprets it

[elleng]

13. I 'wish' it were just her campaign,

but I see it here @ DU too. Are DUers catching it from HRC>, or got it on their own???

[Cassiopeia]

41. Well her campaign is consistent at least.

Flip flopping between different states and beliefs is what HRC and her supporters do best.

[treestar]

132. NO, it is not being a fragile flower to fight sexism

It's appalling how people are losing any feminist credentials over Bernie!

[Armstead]

144. My idea of feminism is that civility and manners apply equally to both genders

And bad manners are bad manners regardless if the offender is male of female.

Clinton was attempting to interrupt and talk over Sanders while he was speaking in his allotted time. I suppose he could have let her control the debate that way, lose his points in one of those simultaneous speaking dialogues where neither is heard. Or he could have ceded and let her silence him just because she is a female. ............Naw don't think so.

Sorry, being female does not excuse a natural response to that.

[liberalnarb]

199. Losing feminist crudentials BECAUSE OF BERNIE?????

How? Feminists are fighting to make sure men and women are equal, that no woman is treated unfairly because of her gender. Bernie didn't take that away, your living in a fantasy land if you think he did.

[Bubzer]

208. +1

[PyaarRevolution]

174. Yeah, fragile flower my ass.

Hillary is anything but a wilting Lily, she's tough as nails and if you think otherwise you've been fooled.

[noretreatnosurrender]

11. Feeling a Double Bern/Burn Tonight

I am so over their divisive campaign tactics. I"m feeling the bern tonight but I'm also feeling the BURN towards the despicable tactics of the Hillary campaign.

[jillan]

12. Especially this one because it is everything we fought against and it is so sad

that it has come to the surface when we have a woman running for President.

[noretreatnosurrender]

21. Yes

Her campaign is throwing us and our hard work under the bus. We mean nothing to them except something to use to cash in at the ballot box. Disgusting.

[angstlessk]

14. Hell, I had to see if this was the Bernie forum, since no Hillary supporters

checked in.

[oasis]

15. So what if we all agree on DU?

Bernie's abruptness is likely to be compared to Obama's "you're likeable enough Hillary" remark in 2008. That exchange seems to still linger in the minds of many debate fans.

Just sayin'.

[jillan]

22. Standing up for yourself while being interrupted is not the same as a snarky comment.

[oasis]

29. We'll see how it plays out. nt

[Ed Suspicious]

107. Is that to be read "we'll wail and gnash our teeth hoping to influence the way it plays out?"

[Armstead]

146. Maybe but look at who is president today

Not saying then outcome will be the same....but fair is fair.

Personally I thought she was being rude and overly aggressive, and Bernie was simply responding in kind.

[BernieforPres2016]

16. Thank you thank you thank you

I am really sick of this kind of crap. Hillary had already talked right through Anderson Cooper telling her that time was up on multiple occasions, once for probably 30 seconds through 2 or 3 attempts to stop her. Then she gives a full answer to a question. It's Bernie's turn and she jumps in and tries to cut him off after one sentence. It was a bullying debating tactic, playing on her status as the front runner, former Secretary of State, etc. So Bernie can either let her run over him or do what he did, which is to say excuse me, you got your turn now it's my turn. And here come the Clintonistas crying sexism. I knew it would happen the minute Bernie said "Excuse me!" It is nauseating.

[6chars]

61. it might bother people more than usual bc of his accent and voice

it is not like Michael York, "'scuse me old chap, but I happen to have been talking just then"

[Bluenorthwest]

109. Folks who are 'bothered' by a regional accent are bigots.

I think the contrasting of Bernie to an Englishman sort of highlights that fact.

[retrowire]

17. Absolutely!

THANK YOU.

To anyone that thinks the woman that is Hillary Clinton needs to be catered to and treated nicely, you are inferring that a woman cannot be dealt with in equal footing to a man.

I'm sorry, but women are much more than that and Hillary does not need special treatment. You think other world leaders are going to extend special courtesies to her because she's a woman if she's president? Nope.

[A Simple Game]

100. It just seems hypocritical of a woman looking down from a pedestal of her own making

to be demanding special treatment because she is only treated as an equal.

[Political_Junkie]

106. This! n/t

[jwirr]

164. Special treatment implies inequality. What we fought for in

the 60-70s was equality for both men and women. It is still what we want.

[kcr]

167. Plenty of inequality existed in the 60s and 70s

I think there are plenty of people who went through the 60s and 70s who would disagree with you. Plenty of it still does. I'm shaking my head at the OP and the responses. Feminism isn't about demanding special treatment.

Maybe Bernie is helping to move the party to the left, but he sure isn't doing much for social causes. It's sad we feel like we have to choose.

[jwirr]

171. I didn't say we won the fight for equality but that it was what

we were fighting for. And yes it is still what we are fighting for. As to Bernie not doing much for social causes I think you are wrong. His campaign is winning just by getting the word out. I do not see that coming from Hillary.

[kcr]

173. Whatever "we" are fighting for, it apparently goes right out the door during primary season

for some people. It's too bad. Feminism means feminists want special treatment? Anyone who thinks so doesn't understand what feminism is and has ever been about. Sorry.

[jwirr]

176. That is exactly what to OP said about Hillary speaking over

everyone.

[kcr]

177. And guess what?

No one is demanding any special treatment. I don't care if anyone thinks Bernie's treatment of Hillary was sexist. That's beside the point. Feminism is not about demanding special treatment. It's just not. There is such a thing as inequality and sexism. It's okay to think that isn't what happened last night. But claiming feminism is demanding special treatment by thinking it was sexism is ridiculous.

[Bubzer]

211. How is it okay to think Bernie was being sexist?

We all know that hilly is trying to use sexism against Bernie as a bludgeon. That's NOT okay. It's not okay to allow a false notion to be applied to anyone innocent of that notion... we call that defamation, and it's illegal for good reason.

[kcr]

229. What?

How is it okay to twist people's words?

Edit, okay, I think you meant this? "t's okay to think that isn't what happened last night." I meant I thought it was okay to think he wasn't being sexist. I actually happen to agree, in fact. I don't think he was being sexist. I realize that wasn't clear. I'm sorry.

[Bubzer]

233. Thank you for clarifying that! I certainly prefere it being a misunderstanding than the alternative.

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. Yup, yup, yup

[Kalidurga]

20. If Hillary can't handle this kind of treatment in a debate

How is she going to handle outright hostility from male heads of states from countries where women aren't allowed to drive or vote and are truly treated as if they aren't fully human?

[Herman4747]

111. Putin would eat her for lunch! n/t

[VulgarPoet]

168. Reminiscent of Claire Underwood and Viktor Petrov, in a way

Apologies, I've been watching a LOT of House of Cards as of late.

[JRLeft]

23. I'm a man I have no say in this manner.

[Travis_0004]

83. Im a man and I agree with the original post 100%

[Jenny_92808]

215. I am a woman and I

couldn't agree with you more!

[ecstatic]

24. I didn't think he was sexist, just grumpy as usual.

"Get off my lawn" type vibe.

[jillan]

26. I get grumpy too when people interrupt me right in the middle of a sentence.

[elleng]

27. I don't get this 'grumpy' charge, either,

when what he's doing is trying to be heard, and usually in a polite and civilized manner.

Is it that many don't 'get' his New York accent, and interpret it as 'grumpy?'

[ecstatic]

30. Maybe

I'm from Brooklyn, NY, btw. New York accents coupled with aggression or bluntness sound more harsh than generic American accents.

At the same time, Bernie does have a grumpy dismissive tone when he's taken off message.

[elleng]

34. So am I from Brooklyn.

Haven't noticed a grumpy, dismissive tone, but maybe that's just my 'ear.'

[madokie]

68. If you think that is bad

you should be around this 67 year old man when I'm treated the way she/they treat Bernie. I'll let whoever know right up front that I won't put up with the shit and it won't take me very many words to get my point across either.

This is not directed at you personally rather at some of the responses I'm reading here in this thread and this just happened to be where I jumped in.

Bullshit is bullshit and Bernie has been very nice to everyone he has had to deal with in this quest to right many years of wrongs by the very people who are questioning him or his motives today. I fully understand him.
I fully understand that Hillary wants to be the first woman President and thats the jest of her candidacy. Other than that she has nothing. Oh she was a one and a part term senator, a first lady to a state and to the United States of America and took a conciliation prize of SoS offered to her by the person who beat her at the last election she was in. At that job she never accomplished much in the way of making the world a better place for either us or them anywhere in the world but yet all she has is a 'I'm more qualified' argument. Fuck that noise I want a leader with a vision leading my country, thank you very much.
She was given pretty much a free hand to do as she seen fit in that job as Secretary of State, some guidance but mostly left to her own path. I'm aware that the President had/has a vision for what he wants done but he didn't sit over her making demands of how to do that job. She'll be the first one to tell you that too, that is long before it became to her advantage to say that 'I was only doing what he wanted me to do' crap. Yes Hillary wants it both ways and always has.

[Lizzie Poppet]

25. This!

Expecting to be cut slack for graceless, insufferable behavior (like constantly interrupting someone) just because you come equipped with a vagina is what's sexist.

[AhhMass]

116. +1 to that

[noretreatnosurrender]

28. Going to Bed

If I post anything else I may get myself banned from the site. I know one thing I will definitely have discussions with the women I worked with at NOW in the 70s. We all worked too hard to let this Horse shit stand. Good night all. Sorry I'm so angry.

[Jenny_92808]

216. Good night to you.

I will not go to bed yet because I am kind of enjoying doing the full-ignore on so many who have flooded this thread with wrong thinking. After a few more full-removals, I might go to bed too.

[noretreatnosurrender]

220. Thank you

Didn't see your good night until tonight but thank you. The false charge of sexism in the debate last night was despicable. I'm glad so many Sanders supporters and a few honorable Hillary supporters exposed it for what it was.

[Blue_In_AK]

31. Absolutely!

Equality is equality.

[haikugal]

32. Thank you. Very sad that it had to be said here on a supposedly liberal website. Disgusting.

[slipslidingaway]

33. knr ...Those who seek to divide, will never find unity...

some people just do not get it.

Back in the 80's the campaign was that women earned .69 cents ... now where is that button of mine

[AzDar]

35. Thank you!

[BainsBane]

36. Regardless, it's rude

That is the take away.

Some women perceived it as sexist. I myself saw it as ill-mannered. Perhaps he behaves like that with everyone, not just women. Either way, it reflects poorly on him.

[cui bono]

40. So I can assume you made the same complaint when Hillary pointed in the faces of BLM activists

and lectured them while they were supposed to be having a conversation?

I'd love to see your post on that, can you give me a link? And while you're at it can you provide the links where you yourself have set back feminism by playing the gender card in an effort to defend Hillary? I know they're out there.

And what do you think about Hillary's habit of filibustering in all the debates? Rude, right?

.

[BainsBane]

46. "playing the gender card."

Discussing gender or race as "cards" is reactionary and not befitting anyone who claims to be a liberal or a Democrat.

I object to the notion that subjectivity or bigotry are excuses used to oppress white men. Take your concerns with someone who shares your values. That will NEVER be me.

[cui bono]

207. You cannot take the high road on this because you have played the gender card.

If you don't like people saying it then don't do it. You go around lecturing people about feminism and then make a mockery of it by claiming sexism when there is none.

.

[John Poet]

45. It's "rude" to ask her to stop interrupting him?

That's pretty funny.

[BainsBane]

50. He was interrupting her

He did it constantly, wagging his finger the whole time. Then when she interjected, he shouted at her. Watch that debate back and count the interruptions. It wasn't even close. And she didn't spend the night wagging her finger at him.

[CdnExtraNational]

62. Finger wagging is not an interruption

It is the polite way to ask a moderator for a chance to speak.

[Rebkeh]

67. Agreed nt

[bklyncowgirl]

101. Or to summon the waiter...actually I love this little tick of his.

You are right, instead of interrupting her he was asking the moderator to intervene.

[beedle]

91. In this specific exchange

Sanders was answering a question directed at him. Clinton interrupted him.

If you don't like his animated style, that's fine, but stop pretending that when he said "excuse me", it was an interruption of Clinton ... It was not ... It was in response to Clinton interrupting Sanders.

[arikara]

175. He never interrupted her at all

She kept trying to talk over him and all he did was tell her to wait her turn, because the moderator sure didn't.

[Perogie]

188. Please provide the number of interruptions.

[jillan]

49. What's rude is when someone keeps trying to interrupt

Especially mid sentence. She was also doing that to AC. At one point he was trying to go to commercial break and she wouldn't hear of it!

[BainsBane]

54. It is indeed rude

and Sanders did it continually, wagging his finger throughout.

No undecided voter will watch that debate and think it was Clinton who was rude.

[Cowpunk]

103. So the only acceptable response to Clinton's constant attempts to hog airtime is to wait quietly?

Got it.

I hope you do not expect our nominee to behave like that when debating Donald Trump.

[Gary 50]

108. Actually, that is what he was doing most of the night. Waiting quietly, waving his finger at the

moderators trying to get them to give him a chance to speak as she droned on and on and on......... And then when she finally shut up and he started speaking she would jump in before he could complete one sentence. Yes, very rude of him.

[redruddyred]

110. i wanted to hear sanders finish his point and was glad when he did

i guess your interpretation of this moment depends on where you throw your support.

[noiretextatique]

85. No...it is not rude

To tell someone to shut up who keeps interupting you.

[cherokeeprogressive]

97. Damn right! Who the hell is he to interrupt the interruption?

[backscatter712]

148. No, Hillary's constant interrupting was rude.

Bernie was just asserting his turn to speak.

[Matariki]

186. What's rude is constantly interrupting in order to dominate the debate

How the hell would you handle being interrupted?

[Perogie]

187. why don't you find it rude

that Hillary interrupted Bernie during his time. Each candidate has time to make a statement and then the other candidate is allowed a rebuttal.

You're ok with her interrupting and not allowing the other candidate their time per the rules of the debate?

[Kelvin Mace]

202. What is rude

is to interrupt someone when they are talking. It is not rude to assert you right to finish your thought before yielding the floor.

[Arugula Latte]

203. She was the rude one. Didn't she ever learn it was crass and unkind to interrupt someone

when it was their turn to talk?

She's ill-mannered.

[jalan48]

37. It's obvious to everyone that when Hillary can't win on the issues she plays this gender card.

Where are those transcripts? I think what she said to Wall Street in private is much more important than Bernie's supposed interruptions. Besides, this strategy reminds me too much of Gore's "smirk" when George Jr. was speaking in their debates. It's not a real issue, sorry.

[cui bono]

38. Yes!

I have said this same idea to the so-called staunch feminists on this board when they have played the gender card. Playing the gender card makes a mockery of feminism and diminishes the real issue we have.

The petty things brought up in an effort to paint Bernie as sexist are ridiculous and set back feminism. So while they are trying to so hard to have the first woman president thinking that would be great for the women's movement, they are selling women out with their disingenuous tactics to get her there.

Plus, Hillary has a considerably worse record/stance on women's rights since she's willing to compromise on a woman's right to decide what to do with her own body.

Despicable. Anything to win. Rah, rah, sis boom bah.

.

[Major Hogwash]

39. As a feminist who fought for sexual equality in the 70s let me thank you for your great . .

. . . definition of sexism!!

And I agree, it doesn't matter that the 2 people who were debating tonight are of different sexes.

What galls me, is that Bernie is supposed to just shut up and let her ramble over everything he says every time he tries to answer a question of the moderator.

That ain't right.

[Kittycat]

42. Thank you!

[John Poet]

43. Indeed. "Sexist" is to demand that Bernie must defer to Hillary

in every instance, simply because she is a woman.

"Sexist" is to demand that Bernie walk on eggshells around Hillary,
to try to avoid saying something that Hillary&co. can portray as "sexist".

[Gwhittey]

44. Bah you just a

BernieBro

[Jenny_92808]

218. I am enjoying

purging the wrong-thinkers who have posted here. Buh bye.

[Rebkeh]

47. They confuse me with their feminism sometimes

Is she a badass that can take on anybody and anything thrown at her - or is she a damsel? Which is it?

I get that unfair attacks do happen but come on, Bernie is not the one doing them here. Her surrogates are setting us all back with this stupidity.

[ebayfool]

48. Kicked and frigging rec'd! You got it, and them that don't ... don't because they refuse to get it!

I raised two daughters by myself, and went toe-to-toe in a traditionally male field with many an asshole, and I never expected to be treated like a delicate flower! If I had, they would STILL be male only occupations. You ain't seen a fight 'til you see a female xray hand throw out a male welders work! Everything from physical confrontation to weenie-wagging (although that stopped pretty fast when I announced "That's real nice ... does it come in men's sizes?" in front of the crew!).

Bernie was firmly standing his ground - nothing to get worked up about.

I guarantee the GOP will not sit back and let her pull this crap, and they won't be as nice about it as Bernie.

I raised my girls to be strong and assertive. They wouldn't dream of expecting to be treated differently than any man they were competing with - they know that's how we get shut out the game.

[Matariki]

51. Thank you.

You are so absolutely right.

[Uncle Joe]

52. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, jillan.

[Beartracks]

55. Pushing the "story" to ensure that women are aware...

.... of this "sexist" incident is indeed the sexist behavior that really deserves the attention.

=======================

[jillan]

56. Oh the irony! Lol

[PoliticalMalcontent]

57. Thank you.

[Fairgo]

58. Mic drop

so good. so right.

[Cleita]

59. Yes, I agree.

We seem to have a new breed of feminists though who seem to think men are not equal to them. We are all human beings and to treat a man as if he doesn't have the same right to tell an obnoxious person to shut up, just because that obnoxious person is a woman, is just as sexist as the other way around.

[Major Nikon]

138. Many have argued right here on DU that sexism only works one way

...which usually leads into a lengthy explanation of why this isn't really a double standard.

[Cleita]

141. Yeah, I know. Those same are the ones who think women

should cover themselves with baggy clothes so they don't attract rapists. If you read the nonsense in their group, one even suggested wearing a hijab for modesty. I don't consider those people real feminists. Actually they set back achieving gender equality with their views.

[Quixote1818]

60. Nicely put! K and R

[840high]

63. Exactly. Thank you.

[colorado_ufo]

64. Which is why a desire to finally see the first woman president

is NOT a valid reason to vote for a candidate!

[zentrum]

65. Woman for Bernie Here.

Totally agree.

She also just talked over and again, over, Anderson Cooper. Where were the "rules" then?

A feminist BTW does not vote for a a phony War purely for political gain.

[Hatchling]

66. K&R!

You are amazing!

[dchill]

69. Eloquent.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

70. Sounds like Hillary is playing the victim again too.

[noiretextatique]

86. Bingo...as I woman

I find her tendency to do that disgusting. Her supporters do the same thing...also disgusting.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

139. I don't know if you remember but Bill and the rest of his DLC Dems used to do that too....

Drove me crazy. They were (and still are) obsessed with the idea of a vast middle. Republicans would attack and rather than fight back they would go to the media and whine about how mean they were.

[noiretextatique]

149. I do remember

Disgusting and manipulative then too.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

157. Boils down to, "I'm gonna tell on you!" to a non-existent parent.

[noiretextatique]

163. LOL...it garners sympathy from some

But ultimately, it is manipulative. Just look at all the whining here...it is a distraction. And some people buy into it. I guess it is more interesting to claim Sanders' supporters are stalking you than to face the reality that your candidate sucks

[KT2000]

71. thank you!

I was surprised that Bernie was criticized for that.

[Duppers]

72. Preach it, sister!

You are so right! Why is this lost on some people?

[Bassomar]

73. Completely agree.

I can't believe it has come to this point that others used fake-outrage sexism to silence the opposition.
Enough of it, hillary doesn't need your protection, and if she does perhaps she ain't ready to lead.

[senz]

74. Thank you for saying what needed to be said, jillan!

Women who cry "sexism" at every little interaction between Bernie and Hillary are like the boy who cried "wolf" so many times he lost all credibility.

They cheapen the word.

[Blue_In_AK]

75. I just need to say again how much I love your post

and this thread after going round and round with a Hillaryite FB friend this evening. I am TIRED of the trumped-up (did I just say that?) outrage.

[RufusTFirefly]

76. Good post! And you'll have to excuse them...

... There's very little sincerity in the accusation. It's just the latest meme, and they're trying to see if it will gain traction. There's been a lot of wheel-spinning going on.

[PatrickforO]

78. Nice post. It IS the new trope though.

[TalkingDog]

79. Logged in just to Rec. and OH SNAP this.

Thank you.

[ms liberty]

80. Well said; I agree 100%. K&R. n/t

[Cobalt Violet]

81. It's amazing that they want it both ways.

[NCTraveler]

82. You should read some of Sanders writings in the seventies. Nt

[tazkcmo]

104. And some of Clinton's videos

in the 90's or 2000's. Really, just about any year. She evolves a lot so there's plenty of her "old " positions to see and hear. Sniper fire, welfare reform, three strikes and your out, TPP.

[EffieBlack]

84. It's not sexist to treat a woman disrespectfully, but it IS sexist to call someone out for doing it?

Poor Bernie - now he's the victim of sexism, too.

Wow.

As a woman who also has fought for gender equality since the 1970s, I find your analysis bizarre, to say the least.

You sound like those people who never seem to notice racism, even when it's blatant and right in their face, but are very quick to accuse anyone who points it out of being "the real racists."

Since you've taken it upon yourself to "define sexism" for us, you might want to go a little deeper than the superficial, "sexism means that someone thinks that one sex is superior to the other" and consider the various nuanced ways that sexism plays itself out in this society, including the microaggresssive behaviors that impact women every day yet allow men (and other women) to pretend that all's fair because they didn't mean any harm.

[noiretextatique]

87. Hillary is supposedly sooo experienced

But she can't handle herself against big, bad Bernie. She is very adept at playing the victim, and her supporters are too. She managed to handle two black women, and not in the most respectful manner. Any comment on those incidents?

[EffieBlack]

94. Who says she can't handle herself? I haven't heard her complain about this - it's an observation

that's being discussed online. She hasn't said a word about it. She just handled her sh*t and moved on, as she always does.

It's interesting that when anyone anywhere says anything about Bernie that's less fawning than "Bernie's so dreamy!" his supporters swarm to stand up for him, criticize the critique and usually, attack rather pointedly (and often, viciously) whoever made it, and I never hear any of them claim that he is playing the victim. Yet when people across the spectrum object to the manner in which Bernie dealt with Hillary, not only do his supporters line up to defend him, try to shout down the criticism, and fervently attack those who have the nerve to question Sanders' approach, they also, true to form, go after Hillary for supposedly (wait for it . . .) "playing the gender card" and "playing the victim."

I call bullshit.

[NurseJackie]

92. Thank you very much!

[Starry Messenger]

119. +1

[TM99]

179. How is it disrespectful for him

to stop someone from talking over him when it was his turn and it not be disrespectful for her to talk over someone & interrupt them when it was not her turn?

Pretzel logic in order to justify your support of Clinton, I imagine.

[kgnu_fan]

88. Very well spoken, Jillan!!!!!! Kick!!!!

[magical thyme]

89. THANK YOU A MILLION TIMES OVER!!!!!!!! nt

[marions ghost]

90. EXACTLY

I was going to say this but you said it better.

[lostnfound]

93. As a feminist who is nonetheless fond of chivalry..

I thought it was ever so slightly rude in tone, more than in content, and absolutely understandable given the passion Bernie has for these issues which are of such tremendous importance.

I don't expect him to be perfect, just president.

On edit I think she was being more rude trying to interrupt at that particular point.

[restorefreedom]

95. major snap. thank you jillian!! nt

[Vinca]

96. I think you've hit on a very important point.

Rude is rude and asserting your right to finish an answer isn't sexist. If a woman is going to run for the most powerful position in the world, I would hope she considers herself an equal. In all fairness, it seems to be her supporters and not Hillary who have a need to cry sexism every time someone looks at Hillary the wrong way. That's a pathetic way to treat a woman running for POTUS.

[Enthusiast]

98. K&R! This post should have hundreds of recommendations!

[Zorra]

185. 430 as of right now.

[Enthusiast]

192. That sounds like a record!

[Zorra]

99. Thanks, jillan. Regressives just can't seem to grasp what Benevolent Sexism is.

Even the regressive women don't seem to get it any better than the regressive men.

I'll try again, but it is generally an exercise in frustration:

Benevolent sexism is a chivalrous attitude toward women that feels favorable but is actually sexist because it casts women as weak creatures in need of men's protection.
snip---
Benevolent Sexism Items:

"Women should be cherished and protected by men."
"Many women have a quality of purity that few men possess."
"A good woman ought to be set on a pedestal by her man."

http://www.understandingprejudice.org/asi/faq

Simple enough, right? Nope. They'll just continue to drone on and on about how they expect men to treat Hillary like a "Lady".

[Hell Hath No Fury]

162. "Benevolent sexism"...

Run into it ALL THE TIME and yet I had no idea there was a term for it! As a woman who does home renovations and repairs on her own, I get that constantly at places where I pick up building supplies.

I brought along a male friend to one shopping trip because I needed an extra set of hands to load sheet rock. I had a question about something technical and I asked a sales associate if he had the information. He proceeded to give a long answer -- to my male friend standing next to me. When I asked a follow-up, he continued to speak solely to my friend. Finally Peter said, "Tell her, don't tell me, she's the one doing the work!"

I also get asked if I need help a lot, which is actually fine and, if I need it, greatly appreciated. What bugs me is when I tell they, "No, I am good but thank you" and yet they persist. I had one guy ask if I needed help maneuvering a fully loaded flat-bed cart. I gave him my "No, I am good but thank you" bit and he said, "Are you sure? 'Cause the aisles are awfully tight?" His tone told me he thought me totally incapable of handling the cart. In answer, I did some fancy wheel turning around a corner and disappeared down the aisle.

"Benevolent sexism"... yup, very familiar with it.

[Jenny_92808]

226. Thank you for your post!

Exactly right!

[deutsey]

102. K&R

[Punkingal]

112. K&R

[islandmkl]

113. adage from my youth: "You interrupt, you will be reprimanded...it is not good or proper manners."

it is not surprising that no one 'attacking the sexism of Bernie', not one of them, has addressed the constant Hillary interruptions...

it's physics: for every action is an equal and opposite reaction....

oh what? her freaking interruptions were polite?...GMAFB....

[Mira]

114. Excellent and spot on

Now let's let it rest, and live it!

[dana_b]

117. "that is the most sexist thing you could possibly say"

exactly!! I do not want to be treated as if I need special handling. Don't treat me different than you would a guy. Women who act like that, as if ANYTIME a man speaks up to her that it's because of sexism, make me sick.

[snort]

118. This coming from the HRC campaign?

Flipping sexism. Who could have guessed such a thing?

[kcr]

121. It's about time someone put that myth to rest. Feminism is for special treatment

for women! Thank you so much, OP. Those feminists have been getting away with that for too long. Think what would happen if they got a woman president. It would really get to their heads! Special treatment all over the place. You've set them on the right path for sure. What a relief. Edited to put the in here just in case. Sad it has to be done.

[pangaia]

122. THANK YOU FOR THAT...

I was so glad he put her in her place. And boy did she shut up.

And you are so right. If it had been ANYBODY up there behaving like that, he would have done the same thing.

[CoffeeCat]

123. They've been trying to paint Sanders as a sexist since the onset of this campaign

They'll twist anything and everything into a rallying cry that Bernie is sexist.

They've been doing this since Iowa and they have no credibility.

When her camp cries 'wolf' on sexism so many times, they make HRC look really weak.

[SoapBox]

152. ^^^ This! ^^^

If she and the Hillarians can't handle someone saying, Excuse me, then she's not ready to be President of the United States of America.

It's a big wide world out there Hill...and it will be tougher than than someone saying Excuse me!

She's not Presidential material...No More Clintons.

[malthaussen]

124. Preach it, sister.

The same, of course, applies to other oppressed groups. If the ideal is to judge an individual on their character's content, then everything else is irrelevant.

-- Mal

[HeartoftheMidwest]

125. The real problem:

moderator /ˈmɑːdəˌreɪtɚ/ noun
plural moderators
Learner's definition of MODERATOR
[count]
: someone who leads a discussion in a group and tells each person when to speak : someone who moderates a meeting or discussion

The moderator allowed audience members to ask the governor questions.

* * * * *

The "journalists" who moderate debates don't use their power or authority to MODERATE. There's a reason questions are preselected, but also a reason there are flashing colored lights to signal start and stop and timing of answers, and there's a reason the moderator has control of the question sequencing.

Mrs. Clinton engaged in the Republican style of debate, which is to talk over your opponent, don't let him or her get in a word edgewise, and basically dominate the debate by sucking all the air out of the room.

Mr. Sanders was right to call her out on it. Anderson Cooper never had control of the discussion, as he should have.

[w0nderer]

201. That's kind of the strange thing

in radio there at least used to be the saying 'don't argue with the dj, he has the killswitch for your mic'

why don't moderators?


blah blah *kill mic* sorry you were over time..now on to....

[HeartoftheMidwest]

228. Agreed.

I like the way you think.
I suspect the networks prefer the chaos, as they're more concerned with "the noise" than they are with shedding "light."

[w0nderer]

231. was discussing this after posting with a buddy

when i came up with another idea

chess timer...seen them?

except that this one would be set to activate the mic for speaker one, kill it for speaker two, time the countdown (speech length for person one), then kill speaker one's mic and activate speaker two's

simple enough tech today

no moderator influence at all thus no complaints about 'biased kill switch'

[UglyGreed]

126. kick

[Octafish]

127. Thank you, jillan!

"Man, if you gotta ask, you'll never know." -- Louis Armstrong, when questioned, "What is jazz?"

[earthside]

128. This is what Hillarians live for ...

I really think that they are never happier than when they can find the slightest provocation to proclaim "sexism" or "mysogny".

For 90 percent of Americans on this ... nobody cares.

[Jefferson23]

129. Her supporters and surrogates have nothing else, their candidate has been a sell out

on many levels. So they use dumb bullshit like this..that bothers them,
not her disgusting hawking for war and WS.

[Avalux]

130. I wish I could rec this 100000000000 times!! Bravo!!

You have very clearly defined sexism, and how it can be used to play victim as we're seeing with Hillary's campaign.

Thank you from one person (who just happens to be a woman), to another!

[treestar]

131. sorry I just loathe men saying let me finish

when they've already been droning on and have gone from one issue to another so I don't get a chance to have my say on the first one.

The height of sexism as a practical matter.

[islandmkl]

135. mirror your comment...sub 'women' in your headline...

and you have the exact same situational comment...which is merely a sexist comment by its very nature...

on edit: 'droning on and on'...THAT was Hillary...

[whatchamacallit]

155. Consistency is not their strong suit

Ethics and rules are always malleable and conditional with this bunch.

[treestar]

230. he was the one insisting he gets to finish

it just reminds me of when I've been subjected to that. Can't stand men saying let me finish when you have something to say to a point.

[avaistheone1]

134. As a woman and a feminist, I 100% support the OP.

Bernie should Not allow Hillary to take his time during debates or interviews,
or otherwise allow Hillary to continue being rude and talking over him

[sammythecat]

136. K&R! This is just common sense

It's a real shame it must be pointed out. Thanks for saying this.

[annabanana]

137. from another veteran of the '70's gender fight

THANK YOU!

[closeupready]

140. According to her supporters, she's running for Victim-In-Chief, essentially.

So the fact that they would run to use the sexism card as a first means of defense should not surprise anyone. K&R

[BainsBane]

142. And which side is constantly talking about how they are the victims of a conspiracy

media blackout, despite his being on the Sunday news shows every week and God knows how many debates?

Some women perceived those comments to be sexist. As much as you think they have no right to express their views, they did so anyway.

That Victim in Chief comment is offensive and entirely without basis, particularly given the CT that is perpetuated not only by supporters but by Jeff Weaver.

[closeupready]

145. I'm not saying there is NO sexism at base of any criticisms leveled at her.

Nor that neither she nor her supporters have any right to express their views. Gosh, I hope you're familiar enough with my views to know that I'd never argue dissidents have no rights to expression of that dissent.

On the Victim-In-Chief statement, I have never heard of Jeff Weaver. It's a bit of hyperbole on my part; if others see the same thing, then that fact reinforces my conviction that she's gotten intellectually lazy and defensive - NOT a good look in someone who will be asked to settle deadly skirmishes all over the world.

On edit, I see Jeff Weaver is managing Bernie's campaign - so you see how uninformed I am? I had not heard that name before today.

[ellennelle]

143. THANK YOU!!

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

147. Yes, this is exactly what I was trying to say in another thread.

Sanders is just treating Hillary like his opponent in a presidential debate. There's a certain amount of interrupting behavior that happens in these debates. It has always been that way. He did not say anything to attack her based on gender, so I don't see it as sexist behavior.

I should say that I am a Hillary supporter and a woman. I voted her in Maine caucus. I'm not for trashing Bernie for no reason though. I have seen Hillary interrupt him before too. So what? Isn't that just what these candidates do?

[jillan]

156. Thank you! It is so nice to hear this from a Hillary supporter. Let them bicker all they want -

that's what the primary and GE campaigns are all about.

It just upsets me when people say she should be treated different because she is a woman.
I know Hillary is tough as nails.

[elleng]

170. Thanks for this.

You are right, of course. FB friends of mine, hrc supporters and women, are really getting 'attutides' about this and against us others, suggesting we 'other than hrc supporters are rude/wrong, etc, and unjustifiably defending Sanders. I tried to close the 'discussion,' with 'why can't we agree,' but they're still stuck on the negative attacks.

[SoapBox]

150. A perfect Tweet...

Squirmishes McPalin
Squirmishes McPalin‏ @McSquirmishes

I never knew I could interrupt men as much as I want and they're sexist if they tell me to stop!

My life is changed forever. #DemDebate

Mar 7, 2016, 12:03:36 AM from Los Angeles, CA

[Hell Hath No Fury]

151. A-fucking-men!!!

I have been experiencing something very bizarre here in SF. Many of my gay friends have been seriously chastising me, a woman and a feminist, for not supporting Clinton. The most consistent argument they make to me is that it is time for this country to elect a woman President and that I should be supporting her.

Every time I hear that I want to scream at them, "Do you not know how revolting it is that YOU, a MAN, are trying to dictate to ME, a woman, how I should be voting and using gender to do it?????"

That is the antithesis of feminism and, in fact, sexist.

Equally galling to me is when gender is used by Clinton as a reason to vote for her (which she has been banging like a gong). Fuck that shit. "Vote for me because I am a woman" is ALSO the antithesis of feminism and I reject it.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

153. A+

Funny how many MALE Hillary supporters think they get to define sexism. Same with WHITE upper middle class Hillary supporters defining racism.

[salinsky]

158. Y'all seem to think that Hillary is too bossy and shrill ...

... how unladylike by that shriveled old shrew.

[Lorien]

160. Thank you! What Hillary and her fans are doing is setting Feminism back 40 years

You've explained this better than I have. I've certainly faced sexism in my male dominated field, and I've fought for the right to be evaluated on the basis of my WORK, without my gender being a factor at all. That's what feminism is about: unbiased equal treatment at work and under the law. This is also what civil rights is about; a person's race, sex, and sexual orientation have no bearing on how well they can perform a job, unless that ob somehow requires egg or sperm donation, giving birth, or extraordinary upper body strength. For decades anti-feminists have been countering with "Feminism is about hating men and giving women special treatment under affirmative action!" I even had many conservative men I knew grumbling about my position at my job, saying "she wouldn't be here if it weren't for affirmative action." Hell, I had to make my resume and everything else as gender neutral as possible just to get a foot in the door. The idea that it was affirmative action that got me to that position is laughable! But Hillary supporters seem to be saying that anything less than kid gloves and special treatment is "sexist", which is bloody sexist!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

161. Voting for a woman because she's a woman is the same as voting for a man because he's a man.

[aidbo]

225. Though, calling someone..

..a 'penis voter' implies a whole different - and totally creepy - scenario than calling some one a 'vagina voter'.









For the jury, this is a joke.

[grntuscarora]

165. K&R!

[SDJay]

166. GREAT Post

My wife is someone who I really admire for many reasons, but one of them is that she really broke a proverbial glass ceiling in her career by forcing her way based on merit into a very closely-knit good ol' boys network. She's as feminist/ardent for women's rights as anyone you'll ever meet.

We were watching the debate last night and before Bernie even said excuse me to HRC, my wife said, "She's really being rude and needs to shut her mouth. It's really off-putting."

As soon as Bernie rightfully and, in my own opinion, civilly told her to let him finish his point, I turned to her and said, "Oh boy, here it comes - the Clinton Victim Card is going to be played cynically again all day tomorrow."

She didn't believe me. She didn't think anyone would do such a thing. Instead of trying to debate with her, I asked her why she thought that.

She said that anyone who would do such a thing is a worse sexist than what most people think of when that term is used. She thinks that this type of crap does as much if not more to set women back than the male pigs who have mistreated them for decades.

I agree with her. The fact that this is being done solely to score cheap political points and that so many people are swallowing this bullshit is really disheartening.

If you truly want to be treated as an equal, then if you're acting like an ass you should be OK with being called on it. If not, you really don't give a shit about equality when it matters most.

Although it bothers me to see so many people take this bait, it's also encouraging to see so many people, even female HRC supporters, reject this outright. That's exactly what this deserves.

[SammyWinstonJack]

169. With everything that's at stake, this is pure horseshit. Maybe Hillary should let

her opponent finish what he was saying and then Bernie would not have had to say what he said.

Seriously, this whole thing is childish.

[wildeyed]

178. So first Bernie gets to interrupt

and then you will "define" sexism for me Thanks, but no thanks.

[Phlem]

182. Sooooo when did Bernie Interrupt?

Please do tell.

[DocMac]

181. K & R

[Paper Roses]

183. Spot on, thanks for this valid post! n/t

[leftcoastmountains]

184. K&R

Just my .02.

[Akicita]

189. Well I guess that means we should all vote for Bernie because we all know now that a woman president

would wilt like a delicate flower in front of a blowtorch if Putin ever objected to being interrupted by her. Where is that sarcasm thingy?

How demeaning to women are those who think Bernie should not object to being interrupted by his rival because she happens to be a woman.

[ybbor]

191. Amen to that!

Well said!

[vanboggie]

193. Exactly. THAT is feminism!

I, too, was 70's woman and said the same thing to my husband last night. To coddle Hillary would be sexism. Bernie had every right to shut her down.

[Ferd Berfel]

194. K&R

Spot on!

[elljay]

195. Dog Whistle

Hillary's campaign is resorting to a very obvious anti-Jewish dog whistle. Bernie is a rude, in-your-face, hand-waving, loud Brooklynite, aka JEW, to be contrasted with the Christian who prays daily. Who is this directed at? Very possibly the African-American and Latino communities, who several studies have shown tend to be more religious and hold higher levels of antisemitic beliefs than the white community.

http://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/racial-and-ethnic-composition/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/02/19/entrenched-anti-semitic-views-very-rare-among-whites-and-asian-americans-common-among-blacks-and-latinos/

[jillan]

198. That one question about religion when Hillary said she prayed at the same church as the

woman asking that question made me say wtf?!?

Yes I believe that is part of the reason why Bernie did not do good in the south.

[Raster]

196. BRAVA!

[Dont call me Shirley]

197. Sexist is when gender is used to gain advantage.

[w0nderer]

200. K&R n/t

[Arugula Latte]

204. Wow, jillan. Congrats on your post. I rarely see so many recs!

[ozone_man]

205. Excellent!

Dont let them distract us from real issues. Bernie is a feminist, and will stand up for the right to talk when it is his turn.

[KauaiK]

206. THANK YOU! I too was on the front lines in the 1970s

Young feminists don't get it. Well stated. Thank you.

[MrMickeysMom]

209. HERE! HERE!

[brewens]

210. Oh my GOD! He shushed Joe Biden! How dare he! Can you even freakin' imagine that? LOL n/t

[Jenny_92808]

212. I know what real sexism is...

I have worked in a male dominated field since the 70's. I worked as a machinist starting back in the 1970's when it was acceptable for men to hang pictures of naked women on their tool boxes in the work place. The goldwater girl group has no idea what real sexism is!!!

[PatrynXX]

217. Bit ironic

a couple I've known close to 30 yrs. My Confirmation Pastor , naturally anti abortion Republican. Husband and wife and those two treat each other totally equally. She's for the Packers he's for the Vikings , yes she's Republican. Not a Sexist Bone in their body. Republicans!!!! I'll let that sink in for a bit. Same thing goes for my Principal from 5-8th grade and teacher 6-8th grade (same school/church) and his wife. Really weird where the actual Sexists show up. I treat equally and expect a prompt spanking when I'm not perfect (nobody is) and slip. Usually the B word is implied and I don't like the word. ....

[Babel_17]

222. K&R

Something for the next moderator(s) to consider. Anderson Cooper seemed unwilling to mean it when he repeated to Clinton her time was up. And that happened several times.

Off topic, but I wonder if anyone tabulated the speaking time each candidate took.

[Jenny_92808]

223. Well said.

As a woman working in a male dominated field for decades, I know what sexist discrimination is and this is not it.

[aidbo]

224. Proud to be rec number 512.

That's 2⁹ by the way.

[passiveporcupine]

227. You said what I've been thinking

And I'm a woman too. We want equality, not special treatment.

[myrna minx]

232. Thank you K&R