"The American people are bitter. They are angry, and they are confused."

[ucrdem]

That's what Senator Sanders wrote in his statement explaining why he voted in 2009 against the TARP legislation which, we now know, included funding for the highly successful auto industry bailout:

http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2008/10/01/wall-street-bailout

Secretary Clinton was right about that last night and that's the way the cookie crumbles. And for the record, I disagree with Sanders' vote and with his characterization of the electorate, or at least the part that I identify with.

[Press Virginia]

1. If the TARP bill had worked, GM wouldn't have declared bankruptcy 8mos later

TARP made loans to GM, which failed to actuall save GM, and bailed out Wall Street.

[Ned_Devine]

3. You can't argue with zombie logic

[ucrdem]

2. H.R. 1424, October 1, 2008, 09:22 PM:

Question: On Passage of the Bill (H. R. 1424 As Amended )

Vote Number: 213 Vote Date: October 1, 2008, 09:22 PM

H.R. 1424 -Sanders: Nay

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=2&vote=00213

Hillary simply told the truth last night. Sanders voted against the auto bailout. Yes he had his reasons, but that doesn't change the fact.

[pat_k]

6. It's blackmail.

Hey buster, if you want to see your 20 billion dollar automotive industry rescue package, you gotta pay $700 billion to the Wall Street crooks that brought down the economy.

It's blackmail, plain and simple.

If enough Senators had done EXACTLY what Bernie did, and said no to the blackmail demand, they could have gone back to the drawing board on a stand-alone automotive industry rescue package.

In other instances, the consequences of voting against an omnibus bill with poison pills in it -- like the negative consequences of a government shutdown -- are worse than the poison pills. When you vote for such a bill, you are NOT voting for the poison pills. You are voting against the more horrible alternative. Any child can see that.

Characterizing such votes as SUPPORTING the poison pill, or OPPOSING the good part of an intolerable piece of legislation is utterly deceitful and disingenuous.

The blackmail victim is NOT the "bad guy," the blackmailer is.

[ucrdem]

7. Yes, and Obama was roundly criticized by Bernie among others for supporting it.

Remember? Well he took a political risk and it paid off. Bernie opted out and wound up with the losing hand. It could have worked out badly but in the event, it didn't. The TARP funds have been repaid with interest and in fact the USG made a tidy profit on the deal:

U.S. ends TARP with $15.3 billion profit
http://money.cnn.com/2014/12/19/news/companies/government-bailouts-end/

Was Sanders wrong? Not necessarily, but the fact is that he voted against the auto bailout in its final form, and that's what Hillary nailed him on.

[pat_k]

8. Partial truths are often sneaky falsehoods. That's the case here. (nt)

[ucrdem]

9. What's partial about it?

And when did Bernie ever give Democrats partial credit for anything? Never, that's when. And so the chickens come home to roost.

[pat_k]

12. "Chickens come home to roost" ??

So, you acknowledge that she did something crappy, but it's fine, because it's just "chickens come home to roost"?

Re: What's partial about it? See post 6 again.

And, if Bernie has mischaracterized Clinton's positions in a similar way, I'd like to hear about it.

[ucrdem]

14. I've been hearing about it since 1992.

Where have you been?

[pat_k]

22. No examples?

[ucrdem]

24. She didn't mischaracterize his position. He was milquetoast at best and ducked when he got a chance.

All in the interest of the "taxpayer." Doesn't sound very progressive does it? But if you want a mischaracterization let's start with superpredators:

"If we’re going to argue about the nineties, let’s try to get the facts straight,” Hillary Clinton said, on Sunday night, during the CNN Democratic Presidential debate, with Senator Bernie Sanders, in Flint, Michigan, two days before that state’s primary. One of the facts that needs straightening is why the nineties came up so often—at least half a dozen times—and as part of the debate’s most highly charged exchanges, on race and free trade. The decade was practically the third character onstage. At this particular juncture, Don Lemon, one of the moderators, had asked Clinton whether her use of the term “superpredators” in a January, 1996, speech praising Bill Clinton’s 1994 crime bill was “racial code.” She said that it was just a “poor choice of words,” which she had used just that once and never would again—a nineties thing. It was when Sanders tried to append a critique of the 1996 welfare-reform bill that she deployed her straight-fact conclusion. “If we are going to talk about the nineties, let’s talk about twenty-three million new jobs, incomes went up for everybody,” she said.

http://www.newyorker.com/news/amy-davidson/hillary-clintons-nineties-dance-at-the-flint-debate

[pat_k]

25. Moderator question is an example of Bernie mischaracterizing a Hillary position?? (nt)

[litlbilly]

4. 5000 jobs left of 80000 in michigan. the bailout saved mostly the ceo's of those companies

in the car industry. Bernie voted for the first car bailout bill, it was blocked by the senate, he voted against tarp. You guys are absoluutely fucking amazing how much bullshit you spread. How the fuck do you sleep at night?

[BreakfastClub]

5. I'm not bitter or angry, and I'm certainly not confused. nt

[AtomicKitten]

10. Bernie voted for the auto bailout in a stand-alone bill & against the TARP omnibus bill.

The disingenuous crap coming from Camp Weathervane is repugnant but expected; we remember her 2008 campaign of lies and personal destruction. She's doubling down on that strategy.

[ucrdem]

13. It's not disingenuous. Barack made a deal and got the job done.

Bernie and the rest of sneerers sneered. And then sneered again and again and again and again. Fine, they got to wag their fingers and garner votes and brag about their purity for years. All Hillary did was score a debate point and the rewrite department goes nuts. What next, Bernie was for TPP before he was against it?

[AtomicKitten]

15. "scored a debate point" ? No, she straightup lied.

[ucrdem]

16. She said:

So when I talk about Senator Sanders being a one-issue candidate, I mean very clearly – you have to make hard choices when you're in positions of responsibility. The two senators from Michigan stood on the floor and said, "we have to get this money released." I went with them, and I went with Barack Obama. You did not. If everybody had voted the way he did, I believe the auto industry would have collapsed, taking four million jobs with it.

Where's the lie?

[AtomicKitten]

18. She said he opposed the auto bailout & voted against it.

She is a bald-faced liar.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidkiley5/2016/03/07/clintons-charges-that-sanders-did-not-support-auto-rescue-is-wrong/?utm_campaign=Forbes&utm_source=TWITTER&utm_medium=social&utm_channel=Business&linkId=22014106#c99eb7e582b8

[ucrdem]

19. Detroit Free Press: "Sen. Clinton voted yes. Sen. Sanders voted no."

http://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/general-motors/2016/03/06/explaining-hillary-clintons-bernie-sanders-votes-auto-bailout/81419564/

[AtomicKitten]

21. He voted no on TARP, yes on the auto bailout as a stand-alone bill.

She said he opposed the auto bailout. and she is a liar. You can spin this and mince words til the cows come home, but it doesn't change the fact that this is another lie from her and, frankly, it's pathetic that her supporters are willing to promote pretzel logic to defend her bullshit.

[Broward]

11. Hillary said Bernie was against the auto bailout, she lied.

It's no surprise that her dutiful supporters continue to spread this falsehood.

[ucrdem]

17. His final answer was Nay. She didn't lie. nt

[Broward]

20. She lied and she'll lie again. Whatever it takes to win.

Bernie was not "against the auto bailout." You're supporting a dishonest politician. To each their own I guess.

[auntpurl]

23. Are they?

I think that characterisation of the American people is inaccurate. SOME of the American people are bitter and angry. Those are the people voting for Trump, and Bernie (note: I am in no way comparing the two groups in any other respect besides this one! Trump voters are idiots, while Bernie voters are generally good Democrats/liberals who are angry at the system). But most of the Democratic electorate when polled state they are happy with their leaders and the country is generally going in a good direction.

I am happy with the progress Obama has made. I would like for Hillary to continue that progress. I don't want to tear the system down. I'm not angry, or bitter. I'm a realist. How much progress can be made in the reality of our political system? Is it better to stand on your ideals and damn the consequences (as Bernie did when he would not vote for the auto bailout once it was tied to the bank bailout)? Or is it better to compromise, make real progress, and risk being ostracised by members of your own party (as Hillary did when she voted for the bailout, thereby saving the auto industry and the American economy)? I know which I think is better, ergo I'm voting for Hillary.

[islandmkl]

27. "Or is it better to compromise, make real progress..."

I acknowledge that America, in general if you want to only look at selected segments, is in a better place than in 2006-2008, and that's great...for what it is...

but anyone thinking we are out of the woods from that debacle are taking the ostrich view...

what progress...?

the shit from the near-collapse used to be up to our chins but now is just chest-high and doesn't appear to be going down...

quite an improvement...

[auntpurl]

28. Well, this thread is talking about a specific issue.

The bailout ended up making money for the government and saved the auto industry and the American economy. When I said "progress", I was referring to that specific piece of progress.

I think Obama has made progress in the right direction. It has taken, and will take a long time to dig the country out from the debacle of the Bush administration. But we're moving. I believe Hillary will continue that progress. This is why we all have a vote.

[CdnExtraNational]

30. When the too big to fail FAIL again...

... it will be another Iraq style vote for the TARP.

And President Sanders will again be proven right.

[BeyondGeography]

26. This is a classic example of when you're explaining, you're losing

And I'm talking about Sanders. He is a good man, but there is vanity in his approach to politics, starting with the needless song-and-dance over his party ID (you vote 98 percent with the Democrats, how about joining the party?) There is a too-cool-for-school aspect to Bernie which has kept his colleagues in Congress at arm's length during this campaign and which explains this vote, which is biting him in the ass right now. He didn't want to dirty his hands with TARP (which worked, btw, in that it stabilized the financial system and helped set the stage for the recovery, so he was wrong about that) so he tossed the auto bailout down with it.

[CdnExtraNational]

29. Some can't understand someone who will not compromise their values...

... for a sound bite.

[NCTraveler]

31. It's well known.

The attempts at distortion by the Sanders campaign are clear. The people have listened. Votes are taking place today. I think they now see how Sanders will negotiate. From a stance of you don't get yours if someone else tries to get anything. Same can be seen with immigration in '07. Just look at the IT industry today. He protected it over the most vulnerable in society. How did that work out?