Hillary is outsmarting Bernie.

[kstewart33]

Her campaign is swifter and smarter. She's evidently learned from her mistakes in 2008. Washington Post:

-- Michigan should have been fertile territory for Bernie Sanders’s populist and protectionist message, but he’s expected to lose the Democratic primary there today by double digits.

What happened?

Hillary Clinton made the race in Michigan all about the lead in Flint’s water, her opposition to the state’s controversial emergency manager law and her opponent’s vote against a bailout for the auto industry.

The crisis in Flint had been going on for some time before the former Secretary of State sent emissaries to visit, secured the endorsement of the city’s mayor and then insisted on having a debate in the city, 70 miles northwest of Detroit.

It is part of a pattern for Clinton. She’s approached every primary more like it was a Senate race than a presidential election by identifying a local issue that would play to her advantage and then championing it.

Clinton is also overwhelmingly favored to win today’s Democratic primary in Mississippi, where she’s been speaking extensively about the levels of lead in Jackson’s water. The city is predominantly African American, and Jackson’s mayor cited her attentiveness to the issue as the reason he chose to endorse her.

It’s not just infrastructure. Clinton has campaigned against voter ID laws in Alabama and Missouri, a religious freedom bill in Arkansas, as well as right to work legislation in Illinois, Missouri and West Virginia. She supported a settlement that New Orleans's Democratic mayor negotiated with FEMA and lauded a student loan refinancing program unveiled by Minnesota's Democratic governor.

The former First Lady has also, in recent weeks, decried state-level efforts to limit access to abortion or defund Planned Parenthood in Florida, North Carolina, Arizona, Texas and Oklahoma.

[link:https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/paloma/daily-202/2016/03/08/daily-202-hillary-clinton-is-winning-with-a-hyper-local-strategy/56de2040981b92a22d7612d7/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_powerpost-930am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory|

[bobbobbins01]

1. Swift and smart enough to blow a 60 point lead.

If she gets any swifter or smarter, we can look forward to calling Trump president.

[DCBob]

25. Bernie is a strong candidate but doesn't know how to play the game.

Running for office in Vermont does not prepare one for running for President.

[bobbobbins01]

42. Yet Hillary blowing a 60 point lead shows she is prepared?

You have a weird way of measuring preparedness.

[AtomicKitten]

50. She's prepared to fight dirty.

Keith Olbermann noted she ran against Obama as if she were the Republican and he the Democrat. She's gping with that strategy again.

[DCBob]

51. This is the year of the insurgent.. so Bernie clearly had that edge.

Its actually quite remarkable how well she has done given all the crap about the bogus email scandal and relentless RW attacks and being seen as the "boring" "status quo" candidate. She is an amazing campaigner!

[bobbobbins01]

53. Yup, everything he does right is discounted.

And everything she does wrong is explained away. Got it.

[DCBob]

57. No.. he has done much better than I had ever anticipated. I will admit that.

He is a good guy with a good message but he is simply not our best candidate at this time.

[Jitter65]

62. She's not blowing the lead, Sanders low information voters are climbing on his attack bandwagon.

[2pooped2pop]

66. Is that where one learns lying, cheating, and manipulating?

[DCBob]

73. Its called hardball bigleague campaigning.

One doesnt learn from running for office in Vermont.

[2pooped2pop]

78. Wow

I can't believe that people hated learned to accept this kind bof shit as perfectly normal. Fucking sad

[DCBob]

79. When your opponent is the GOP you have to be ready to play rough at times.

You are completely naive if you dont understand that.

Wow back to you.

[6chars]

71. She pivots like a shortstop while he just stands there

pounding home the same points again and again.

[ladjf]

2. She lied her ass off about the auto bailout. nt

[redstateblues]

5. Bernie voted against the final bill that saved the auto industry

You BSS need to own that. That is the truth.

[Armstead]

12. You need to own that Clinton is helping the process of Dirty Politics

No context at how fucked up the situation was at the time...And it's the Clinton Catch 22.

When Bernie fights for principles, he's depicted as being too ideological or on the wrong side.

But if he works within the system. He's a hypocrite.

She apparently doesn't believe in accurately discussing the complications of treality.

[redstateblues]

16. So it was dirty politics that made Bernie vote against the bill

that saved the auto industry? Bernie stumbled badly on that one.

[Armstead]

17. see my reply below /nt

[ladjf]

37. Check this article. It describes exactly what happened and who supported what.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/mar/07/hillary-clinton/michigan-hillary-clinton-says-bernie-sanders-was-a/

[randome]

18. How would someone as pure as the driven snow like Sanders be able to stand against the GOP?

This is a primary contest, not a pool party of BFFs. Clinton has used pretty mild rhetorical weaponry against Sanders and he's melting away.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]A 90% chance of rain means the same as a 10% chance:
It might rain and it might not.[/center][/font][hr]

[Armstead]

20. You don't seem to care about the larger principle, so I won't bother explaining

I'll just say politics is a means to an end -- it is just a vehicle.

[ladjf]

39. Bernie is honest. The Republican Party is as crooked as political parties get.

But, I believe Bernie would prevail against the Republicans. It's not a disadvantage to be honest.

[randome]

58. You ever hear of 'Nice guys finish last.'?

I'm not saying we need a monster to fight the monsters but Clinton at least has political smarts to outmaneuver the GOP. Sanders doesn't appear to have that same skill.

Voting for TARP is an example of that. It happens all the time when an important bill is attached to something else. A skilled politician weighs the pros and cons and votes accordingly. It sounds like Sanders would be a one-man army of 'No.'
[hr][font color="blue"][center]A 90% chance of rain means the same as a 10% chance:
It might rain and it might not.[/center][/font][hr]

[ladjf]

60. Of course. There are millions of "sayings". Just find one that suits your point and use it.

Your points have some merit. I don't deny that. However, Bernie has a style that might work better in the long run.

[ladjf]

36. There are articles all over the INTERNET that

confirm that Hillary made false statements about Bernei's auto bailout position and votes.

Here's one. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/3/6/1497180/-Hillary-lied-about-Bernie-voting-against-the-auto-bailout

Bernie's statement: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/bernie-sanders-i-voted-for-the-auto-bailout/

Another: http://general.mtstars.com/435193.html

Dozens of other INTERNET pieces confirm that Bernie voted for the bailout.

Sec. Clinton intentionally tried to mislead the Michiganders right prior to the election.

This article describes exactly what happened regarding Sanders position about the bail out. It's a fairly complicated ins and outs
but it is clear. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/mar/07/hillary-clinton/michigan-hillary-clinton-says-bernie-sanders-was-a/

It does confirm that 1. He voted for the auto bailout. 2. He opposed one of the payments because it mainly went to the big banks.
3. He voted for a separate action that would give the 14 billion that was earmarked in the 2nd payment mainly to the banks, with 14 billion to auto. That bill failed to pass.

[gcomeau]

63. Which is like saying

...someone voted against a final bill that was in favor of puppies and kittens when they actually voted against a bill that authorized destructive medical testing on baby pandas that had an amendment tacked onto it expressing the nations support for puppies and kittens while arguing that they should pass the puppies and kittens legislation independently.


Shady dishonest bullshit like this is WHY people don't trust Clinton. You know perfectly fucking well Sanders supported the auto industry bailout just like Clinton knows perfectly fucking well he did. But as long as she can twist some Senate action to make it look like the opposite is true she'll do it even if it means smearing the most progressive Senator in the United States.


And then you people act all shocked and outraged that by the tens of thousands voters are stating that if Clinton is the nominee they're walking. YOU'RE DRIVING THEM AWAY WITH THIS SHIT.

[kstewart33]

13. Let's not relitigate Bernie's auto votes.

This issue will be irrelevant two weeks from now once Michigan and Ohio have voted.

[ladjf]

41. You are correct. But, Michiganders are voting today. This misrepresentation of what happened

needs to be clarified immediately. That's why Bernie's campaign is running radio ads to present his side.

[kstewart33]

45. Glad that he's telling his side of the story.

But the point remains that Bernie voted no on the final vote that counted. But let's move on, really. Tomorrow Michigan will be in the rear view mirror. So much more ahead.

[ladjf]

54. This INTERNET article actually gives a blow by blow account of who

was in favor of what and when.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/mar/07/hillary-clinton/michigan-hillary-clinton-says-bernie-sanders-was-a/

Bernie supported a bill that would give the auto industry the 14 billion that was in the proposed second tranche while freezing out the big banks. Unfortunately, that attempt failed.

Its dull reading but accurate. Hillary recognized the complications involved and calculated that she could hang the meme on Bernie that he was apposed to the bailout. By in large, her stunt seems to be working.

[NurseJackie]

21. Being "inflexible" is not a virtue ... and it's costing him.

One's inability or unwillingness to be realistic and make hard decisions and take difficult choices is not what makes for an effective president.

[kstewart33]

26. Bingo.

Inflexibility results in occasionally biting your nose off to spite your face. Latest and most costly example: Bernie's auto vote.

[DCBob]

29. Bernie blew it.

If that was a lie he should have corrected her during the debate. He didn't. He went off on a tirade about bailing out Wall Street.. which most viewers didnt get the connection at all.

[VulgarPoet]

3. To be fair, she's blown a lot more 20 and 30 point leads than the Dallas Cowboys since Romo. nt

[kstewart33]

27. You bet. nt

But now, when it really counts, she's performing very well. Experience does count.

[VulgarPoet]

76. That's what's got me unsettled. nt

[NurseJackie]

4. At every turn! Bernie is in her rearview mirror.

[redstateblues]

7. I wonder who they will blame the MI loss on?

[NurseJackie]

77. Undoubtedly it will be offensive, demeaning and insulting to individual voters.

Or maybe it will be a "conspiracy" of some sort. It's hard to predict what people will do, but those two options have been very popular recently. It's probably best not to underestimate their creativity.

[Armstead]

6. I have to admit -- She pulled a brilliant Rovian move

Just what we want in our politics. More sleazy GOP style lies and distortions to win at any cost.

No wonder so many people are turned off to politics.

[redstateblues]

10. Bernie stumbled badly when he voted against the bill that bailed out the auto industry

[Armstead]

15. You call it stumbling. I call it doing his job. as he should have been doing

He was not the only person in Congress at the time. It was a very complicated time, and a lot of maneuvering going on in different directions.

He was trying to separate the auto bailout from the Wall St. bailout.

Rather than planning a presidential run, he was doing what he thought was best.

[redstateblues]

55. Perhaps but to call using his vote against the bailout

Against him sleazy Rovian politics? If Bernie's campaign had been smart they would have tried to defuse it before the debate. Being a Senator that long will always make it hard to run for President. Like you said a lot of those things are complicated. Presidential campaigns are generally reduced to bumper sticker slogans

[Armstead]

61. Bumper stickers that are accurate are okay

But should Democrats be engaging and perpetuating politics of distortion? Or should we at least try to be better than the GOP in the primaries?

That's why so many people are turned off on politics. They are sick of being lied to.

As for Rovian, well, did John Kerry or the democrats see the Swiftboaters coming? Does that make Rove's plotting right?

[Protalker]

74. by the sword die by the sword

Bernie makes judgment his number one campaign issue. Hilary's vote on the Iraq vote is the cornerstone of his campaign. Giving him a pass by explanation does a diservice to him and his campaign.

[SidDithers]

8. DU rec...

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/election-2016/delegate-targets/democrats/

Clinton 677 delegates
Sanders 478 delegates (-199)

Sid

[Scootaloo]

9. I'm not sure even David Brock spits 'em out as fast and furious as WaPo has lately

Jeff Bezos must be scared shitless of Sanders or something.

[Matariki]

70. Jeff Bezos is a creepy weasle

I used to work for him when his company was small. He gave me the creeps. I remember one company meeting where he nearly had a public orgasm over the idea of data mining, a new concept at the time.

[kstewart33]

11. Campaign experience counts a whole lot.

The old saying 'politics ain't bean bag' is true, for better or worse. It's tough, hard-nosed strategizing and finding a way to win. She's learned from her mistakes.

One of the smartest things she's doing is campaigning almost entirely on local issues that local voters are concerned about. Clinton has a large press staff that is filled with regional press people who know local areas very well. Bernie's press staff is small and entirely national-issue focused.

IMHO, that's how she's beating him. Bernie has no experience in national campaigns, and it's hurting him. If he ever ran again, I'd wager he would be much better at this, just as Clinton is, after a mistake-ridden 2008 campaign.

[itsrobert]

14. This is the problem with one note Bernie

He doesn't seem to be invested in other issues besides free healthcare and free education

[PassingFair]

22. He hits ALL the notes.

I saw him speak last nite, this is a snip from MLive's report on his speech.

"The theme of political revolution wove throughout Sanders' speech, which lasted about 50 minutes. It included a long list of core Democratic issues including LGBT rights, abortion, increased minimum wage and income inequality."

A LONG LIST OF CORE DEMOCRATIC ISSUES.

This "one note" theme is bullshit.l

[Smarmie Doofus]

19. Oh.... she's real smart.

Her supporters? Not so much.

But you knew that already.

[kstewart33]

23. Let's not get nasty.

Clinton's smarter than both of us. That's one reason why she's winning.

Let's see how Michigan goes. I'd bet that she'll win but by a smaller margin than the polls predict.

[dchill]

30. There's a big difference between smart and cunning.

Bernie is smart.

[kstewart33]

33. DC, cunning is a prized talent in politics.

On both sides. Politics is dirty business.

[dchill]

38. Hopefully, that will soon be a historical reference.

[Smarmie Doofus]

48. Yes. In the sense of "wise".

I agree totally and it is this distinction that seems to confound people; mostly people on the other side, in my estimation; but it's a common human foible.

[dchill]

59. Exactly. Perhaps "intelligent" would be a better word.

Many animals are cunning.

[earthside]

24. Hillary is a very typical ambitious politician.

That's all.

I've seen a whole lot better in my lifetime.

Sen. Sanders is not a typical "do anything, say anything" politician.

If you want same-old, same-old ... then Clinton's the One.

[notadmblnd]

28. It is not smarter and swifter. It's more devious and dishonest.

nothing more, nothing less.

[kstewart33]

40. Name me one national-level politician who is not devious and dishonest.

At some point, they all are. It's only a matter of degree.

And please don't say Bernie isn't. You don't know him, I don't know him. But I do know one thing: Bernie is not a saint, as he's portrayed on this forum.

[notadmblnd]

46. The only ones that portrays him as a saint is Hillary supporters- and IMO is due to their insecurity

And yes, his 50 year record does indicate that he is honest.

But even if I were to agree with you about all politicians being dishonest- it still doesnt' make it right.

HRC and her supporters are devious and dishonest

[EndElectoral]

31. Lying is not outsmarting. It's lying.

[bkkyosemite]

32. I believe there is a rigging of the system like in other years.

[whatchamacallit]

34. I think you mean swift-boatier

[PowerToThePeople]

35. Maybe she wins.

Maybe I turn in my passport offshore somewhere.

I hope it does not come to that.

[kstewart33]

43. Now you know you won't do that.

During her time in the Senate, Hillary voted the same way as Bernie 93% of the time.

She is not the Satan and Bernie is not the Saint.

[PowerToThePeople]

44. TPP.

Yes, I would.

[kstewart33]

49. Well then, good luck to you if you do.

[PowerToThePeople]

52. Thanks.

[Logical]

47. Lol, scanning for anti bernie stories! Nt

[UglyGreed]

56. Deception

is a honorable trait I guess......

[azurnoir]

64. yep she is 'outsmarting' Bernie in the same manner Bush2 'outsmarted' John Kerry

only she's done it repeatedly

[GreatGazoo]

65. Key word is "then" -- "identifying a local issue that would play to her advantage and THEN

championing it."

Why wasn't she for these things all along?

[DefenseLawyer]

67. The Post is becoming Clinton's version of the Washington Times

I miss Ben Bradlee

[beachbum bob]

68. little or no connection between sanders, majority of his supporters with black communities

and other minorities....we see it in all the voting patterns so far and will continue to see it....hillary is a skilled leader and has been the subject of intense personal attacks for decades....nothing really phases her

[Matariki]

69. So ironic given which candidate is more likely to do anything about infrastructure

and which candidate is likely to allow privatization and fracking.

[rateyes]

72. Nah. She's just lying through her teeth.

[LeFleur1]

75. Experience Counts

Hillary has the experience to run a government, and the courage to do it. She has always worked very hard for women's rights all over the world. She has tried to right wrongs that bubble up in our country and in the world. Many of her works have paid off and made dents in barriers put up to stop women and minorities from rising. It's not that she's 'outsmarting Bernie' as much as that she plans what she wants to happen and carries out those plans. She's not just talking loud and waving her arms around, she's also planning how these things can be made to happen in a practical way.

I'm not quite sure what Bernie has done that has made a big difference. He seems to want to do something, but so far has not been that successful. He wants to give people more that they won't have to pay for. That's a good thing, but exactly how is it done short of dictatorship? He speaks about billionaires paying for his plans, but how would that come about? He reminds me a bit of those old movies where the covered wagon selling healing elixor came to town and took the money of people hoping for an easy cure. There is no easy cure. It requires real medicine, not make believe stuff. Changes require real plans that will work through negotiation and explanation.

Sanders talks about what is wrong in THIS country. So does Hillary and she has exact plans to change it. The plans look as if they might work, so when she goes to these states and tells them what she'd like to do, she also tells them HOW she'd like to do it. She talks about global problems and her plans to try to limit them. Good Planning is valuable. There is a possibility of actually being able to carry the plans if they are clear and reasonable and she can get the support of the House and Senate.

I'm with Hillary. Bernie might be a valuable partner in the Senate to help her carry out her plans. I hope that's how it turns out for the sake of America.

[FBaggins]

80. You were saying?

"What happened?" indeed.