2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumEsquire: Hillary Questioned Bernie's Record on Health Care and The Internet Made an Epic Correction
"As Clinton has discovered recently, the Internet age means instant fact checking. Whether she is talking about Bernie's record or Nancy Reagan's efforts (or lack thereof) to help those with HIV, the Internet fact checkers have their fingers poised over the keyboard ready to correct any claim.
And this time, Bernie Sanders' rapid response director Mike Casca struck gold. Because where was Bernie? He was standing right behind her in December 1993 when she gave a speech about health care reform at Dartmouth College"
Ouch!
http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/news/a42965/hillary-questions-bernies-record-on-healthcare/
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)reformist2
(9,841 posts)Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)can ya smell the triangle turning ?
kennetha
(3,666 posts)too busy tilting at the single payer wind mill -- picking daisies in left field, instead of having his head in the game.
That's our Bernie. Too good for the real world.
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)Oh I know: "no we can't"
DhhD
(4,695 posts)above the poverty line. The poor were and are written off by Clinton, as far as HMO ACA healthcare and welfare reform.
http://www.nytimes.com/1988/06/23/us/jackson-calls-for-a-national-health-care-plan.html
Response to cyberswede (Reply #4)
cyberpj This message was self-deleted by its author.
Response to kennetha (Reply #3)
Lodestar This message was self-deleted by its author.
Else You Are Mad
(3,040 posts)He isn't the one rewriting history out of whole cloth. Hillary has been caught twice in as many days rewriting history. And, Sanders has been fighting for years for what he believes in and will continue to do so for as long as he has too. Not many politicians can say that. Contrary to popular belief, there isn't any honor in compromising just to get something done because it would be too hard (but not impossible) to get the results that would benefit everyone. Movements take time.
cui bono
(19,926 posts).
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Hillary Clintons sudden attack on Bernie Sanders single-payer health care plan is a dramatic break with Democratic Party doctrine that the problem with single-payer is that it is politically implausible not that it is a bad idea.
Single-payer, the Canadian-style system in which the government pays for universal health care, takes the health insurance industry out of the picture, saving huge amounts of money. But the health insurance industry has become so rich and powerful that it would never let it happen.
That was certainly Clintons position back in the early 1990s, when she was developing her doomed universal coverage proposal for her husband, Bill.
But in the ensuing years, both Clintons have taken millions of dollars in speaking fees from the health care industry. According to public disclosures, Hillary Clinton alone, from 2013 to 2015, made $2,847,000 from 13 paid speeches to the industry.
Source: Public federal disclosures, Clinton campaign
https://theintercept.com/2016/01/13/hillary-clinton-single-payer/
In 2008, Clinton was the among the three biggest recipients of campaign cash from pharmaceutical-related companies, according to data compiled by the Center for Responsive Politics. In all, the watchdog group reports that she raised $738,000 from employees of pharmaceutical manufacturers and companies classified as Pharmaceuticals /Health Products. The center reports that Clinton also raised more than $1.2 million from the insurance industry -- which includes health insurers.
On top of those campaign contributions, the Clintons and their family foundation have benefited from their ties to the pharmaceutical and insurance industries.
In 2011, the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America (PhRMA) -- the primary trade association representing drug companies -- paid Bill Clinton $200,000 for a speech, as the organization was lobbying the Hillary Clinton-led State Department. Last year, the Drug Chemical and Associated Technologies Association, a trade group whose members include major pharmaceutical companies, paid her a $250,000 speaking fee.
Meanwhile, the Clinton Foundation has received between $1 million and $5 million worth of donations separately from drug manufacturers Pfizer and Procter & Gamble, and from health insurers Humana and Blue Cross Blue Shield of North Carolina. Some of those companies made donations as recently as this year, according to the foundations website.
That largesse was part of a friendship forged after those industries opposed her 1993 health care initiative -- and which continued after she won reelection to the Senate in 2006.
http://www.ibtimes.com/political-capital/democratic-debate-2015-hillary-clintons-enemies-pharmaceutical-insurance
kennetha
(3,666 posts)"His legislative record was to state the ideological position he took on the left, but with the exception of a few small things, he never got anything done," said Frank, who has endorsed Clinton. Senators are not impotent."
Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2016/03/bernies-record-220508#ixzz42jaSb0hM
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook
too good for the real world.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)What kind of experience does Bernie Sanders have? Let's take a look.
By Zaid Jilani / AlterNet
October 17, 2015
Once Sanders made it to the Senate in 2006, his ability to use amendments to advance a progressive agenda was empowered. Here are some of the amendments he passed in the Senate:
Greening the U.S. Government (June 2007): A Sanders amendment made a change to the law so at least 30 percent of the hot water demand in newer federal buildings is provided through solar water heaters.
Protecting Our Troops (October 2007): Sanders used an amendment to win $10 million for operation and maintenance of the Army National Guard, which had been stretched thin and overextended by the war in Iraq.
Restricting the Bailout to Protect U.S. Workers (Feburary 2009): A Sanders amendment required the banking bailout to utilize stricter H-1B hiring standards to ensure bailout funds weren't used to displace American workers.
Helping Veterans' Kids (July 2009): A Sanders amendment required the Comptroller General to put together comprehensive reporting on financial assistance for child care available to parents in the Armed Forces.
Exposing Corruption in the Military-Industrial Complex (November 2012): A Sanders amendment required public availability of the database of senior Department officials seeking employment with defense contractors an important step toward transparency that revealed the corruption of the revolving door in action.
...
Using the Power of a Senator
While Sanders was an amendment king who was able to bring bipartisan coalitions together to make serious changes to laws, he also knew how to be a thorn in the side of the establishment until it offered up something in return. Sanders was able to get the first-ever audit of funds given out by the Federal Reserve, which made transparent over $2 trillion of funds handed out by the secretive organization. This was a cause that Republican congressman Ron Paul (TX) had been pursuing for decades, but Sanders was able to get the votes to do it by forging a compromise that required an audit for the bailout period alone.
When the Affordable Care Act was in danger of not having the votes to pass, Sanders used his leverage to win enough funding for free health treatment for 10 million Americans through Community Health Centers. This gutsy moveholding out until the funds were put into the billhas even Republican members of Congress requesting the funds, which have helped millions of Americans who otherwise would not have access.
Another moment came when Sanders, who was then chair of the Veterans committee, worked with Sen. John McCain (R-AZ), to overhaul the Veterans Administration. McCain praised Sanders' work on the bill in an interview with National Journal. Sen. Jack Reed (D-RI) even went so far as to say the bill would never have passed without Sanders' ability to bring the parties to a deal.
http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/bernie-gets-it-done-sanders-record-pushing-through-major-reforms-will-surprise-you
And he did it all without taking millions from special interests.
What did Hillary do again, I mean besides help get us into the Iraq war?
kennetha
(3,666 posts)more than his self-promotional clap trap.
Hardly any of them are endorsing him. Reminds me kind of Ted Cruz -- except they do seem to like Bernie personally. But he's no lion on the legislature that's for sure.
too good for the real world. that's my new tagline whenever I mention Bernie.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I'll take the guy who's been fighting for me for decades, not the corporate sellout millionaire.
kennetha
(3,666 posts)really? mostly standing on the sidelines, tilting at windmills
"His legislative record was to state the ideological position he took on the left, but with the exception of a few small things, he never got anything done," said Frank, who has endorsed Clinton. Senators are not impotent."
Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2016/03/bernies-record-220508#ixzz42jaSb0hM
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook
too good for the real world.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)This isn't Oz so clicking your heels together won't work either.
kennetha
(3,666 posts)an almost completely pure and completely inconsequential legislator.
Now Ted Kennedy, that was a guy who knew how to get legislation passed.
Bernie -- an inconsequential, purist piker, a legend in his own mind.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)roguevalley
(40,656 posts)Hill for her many iiotic lies.
kennetha
(3,666 posts)But the the delegate count is going to make you want to cry I think. No republicans and independents to help him in Florida, where he probably lost all credibility anyway by refusing to disavow his praise of Castro and Ortega.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/fl/florida_democratic_presidential_primary-3556.html
That's gotta hurt.
This one too:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/nc/north_carolina_democratic_presidential_primary-5175.html
The south rises again, I guess.
Elmer S. E. Dump
(5,751 posts)It's OK. We all have bad days!
stupidicus
(2,570 posts)based on the other responses, it looks like you got spanked again
UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)multiple gaffes by Hillary these last few days some are losing their cool.....
stupidicus
(2,570 posts)I'd almost feel sorry for her if she wasn't in so much karmic debt
Elmer S. E. Dump
(5,751 posts)So either we are both very astute, or we are both nuts. Which do you prefer?
stupidicus
(2,570 posts)lol
nichomachus
(12,754 posts)Mrs. Clinton's plan was bogus and died the death it deserved.
If Mrs. Clinton's world is the "real world," we are truly screwed. She is a dangerous dangerous woman.
kennetha
(3,666 posts)"His legislative record was to state the ideological position he took on the left, but with the exception of a few small things, he never got anything done," said Frank, who has endorsed Clinton. Senators are not impotent."
Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2016/03/bernies-record-220508#ixzz42jaSb0hM
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook
too good for the real world.
TM99
(8,352 posts)but I guess I have to do so again.
Your candidate stuck her tail between her legs and did not do shit about health care for the next 24 years until this election.
Sanders kept pushing for single payer BUT also got the community health rider attached to the ACA and led the overhaul of the VA system.
That is not titling at wind-mills. That is getting shit done, unlike your lying insurance mandate loving candidate.
Got it this time?!
farleftlib
(2,125 posts)She is a train wreck in the making. I just hope the crash comes before she comes any closer to winning the nomination because if her past experience is any example - and it is - she will run this country into the ground with her ham-handed ineptitude.
Hydra
(14,459 posts)Have her lies gotten too large to float?
NWCorona
(8,541 posts)I haven't seen much defense of this here.
Hydra
(14,459 posts)It was pretty bad before NV. This has to be worse, even with them ahead.
AzDar
(14,023 posts)BernieforPres2016
(3,017 posts)I guess he's been around long enough to know how the Clintons play the game. He is running a brilliant campaign.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)His twitter is right on top of things.
slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)Helen Borg
(3,963 posts)TxGrandpa
(124 posts)Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)rpannier
(24,350 posts)Dad: If only your.... [sniffling] older sister Dee-Dee were here to see this...
Dee-Dee: I'm right here, Dad!
Dad: Oh, Dee-Dee..! Dee-Dee, where have you been all these years?!
Dee-Dee: Right behind you.
Dad: Oh, you know I never look back there, ha-ha!
Maybe that was the problem, she never looks behind her
on edit: Season2 Episode 25 Mock 5
Happens at the end, for the Dexter's Lab Fans
JGug1
(320 posts)I heard a really good comment on this episode on NPR the other night. Hillary handled that assertion badly, according to one of the people speaking. She should have said that She and Bernie had indeed, voted FOR the car bail out but then that was blocked and the bail out was included in a bill that also bailed out some Wall Streeters. Bernie chose to vote against that bill but she took a more pragmatic view and sucked it up in order to save the car companies. Much better presentation. But, she was NOT lying, in spite of the ramble and the roar. Bernie DID, in fact vote against the bill that saved the auto companies. His vote was Bernie, all the way, but if he had prevailed the nation would have gone to 25% unemployment. She's right. He was wrong. Sorry. I love him.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)plan, that had even less chance to pass then. Had he gotten behind Clinton's plan, it might have done better and we'd be farther along.
So Clinton was correct when she said she did not know what Sanders was doing. But, she should have put it straight -- I tried to get his support, but he was dreaming about single payer which had no chance then. So here we are.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)NWCorona
(8,541 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)his support, but he was stuck on his highly untenable single payer at the time and DID NOT support her plan.
Sanders was essentially just another lobbyist promoting his plan, not hers.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)that it was Clinton's plan or the highway?
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)area to get by those who would never consider outright control if healthcare. Sanders' single payer had no chance and no support. If he had gotten behind Clinton's plan, and perhaps offered some compromise like a public option, who knows where we'd be today.
But, he failed to support her plan. Heck, Obama had to beg him for help to get something passed in 2009.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)If you really cared, you'd search under "Sanders single payer plan 1993."
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/06/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-119082
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Bernie didnt introduce a plan in 1993.
Try again.
RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)Once again, do you feel that it was Clinton's way or the highway?
me b zola
(19,053 posts)Hillary wanted into the political mix. Many people are accomplished and worked hard but never have access to take a leadership role like Hillary did.
All Bernie had was a set of principles, a strong moral compass, and the dedication to pursue better policy for the American people.
NWCorona
(8,541 posts)Along with that letter Clinton wrote to Bernie for all the hard work speaks otherwise. Can't spin this gaffe
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Last edited Sat Mar 12, 2016, 10:03 PM - Edit history (1)
Because Sanders and others did not get behind her plan, it was 15 years before anyone would touchbit.
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/06/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-119082
You gotta read it and think. Sanders was pushing his plan, not hers. At best it devided support. At worse, right wingers just used it as proof liberals would not be satisfied until the federal government ran healthcare.
Back then, that was death knell of any advancement. Sanders' irrational inflexibility struck again.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Stop posting falsehoods.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)"As Karen Tumulty noted in The Washington Post, Bernie Sanders has long been a champion of a single-payer health care system as the only way to assure that all Americans receive medical coverage. Rather than strip millions and millions of people of their health insurance, he wants to be sure millions and millions of people actually get health insurance.
"This was Sanders position as far back as 1993 . . . . . ."
http://billmoyers.com/story/tell-the-truth-about-bernies-health-care-stand/
Then read the article below and try to put the two articles together if you can. Sanders had a single-payer plan/proposal and did not support Clinton's plan. When it came time to supporting Clinton's plan, he was absent, hence her comment "I don't know" where Sanders was. Admittedly, she should of just said, "Sanders was too stubborn and stuck on single payer, and he we are still trying to come up with some health plan to build upon."
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/01/hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-health-care-217789
So, yes, Sanders had a plan and he did not support Clinton's plan. He might have helped move the discussion along, as Clinton said in her note, but when it came down to it, Sanders was absent in his fantasy land.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)And heres an ironic note: During that 1993 quest for a health care plan, Secretary Clinton sent Sanders an autographed picture of the two of them, wishing him the best and thanking the senator for your commitment to real health care access for all Americans.
Where's his plan?
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)it's him acting like a lobbyist. For all we know, he leaned over and said "Mrs. Clinton, I appreciate your commitment to real health care access for all, but if it's not single payer I'll let people go without for 25 years until I have a chance to push single payer again on the national stage, assuming I can snow enough people."
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)And an incredibly active and smarmy imagination at that.
Either find proof to back up your assertion or stop claiming that it's the truth.
Because someone looks really dishonest here and it's not Bernie.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)I guess you want to parse whether "position" means "plan" or not.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Where is this 1993 plan you keep posting about?
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)And obviously neither one of those claims is true.
Face it, you're busted, admit you made it all up and move on.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)You refused to provide one in the other thread and here you are making the same claim.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)reformist2
(9,841 posts)Response to Hoyt (Reply #30)
DUbeornot2be This message was self-deleted by its author.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)again, did I repeat myself, deja vu, one more time, ad nauseum
Skwmom
(12,685 posts)Uncle Joe
(58,524 posts)Thanks for the thread, NWCorona.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)Lie after lie after lie.
And her supporters not are not only fine with the complete lack of ethics, they fucking cheer lead the lies. Nauseating
Skwmom
(12,685 posts)Zorra
(27,670 posts)and the campaign based in fact and truth knows the dirty tricks the deceitful campaign is going to pull before the deceitful campaign knows they are going engage in them.
It's not rocket science.
A scorpion and a frog meet on the bank of a stream and the
scorpion asks the frog to carry him across on its back. The
frog asks, "How do I know you won't sting me?" The scorpion
says, "Because if I do, I will die too."
The frog is satisfied, and they set out, but in midstream,
the scorpion stings the frog. The frog feels the onset of
paralysis and starts to sink, knowing they both will drown,
but has just enough time to gasp "Why?"
Replies the scorpion: "Its my nature..."
~ Aesop