Why Sanders should embrace conflict with Trump

[Meldread]

In politics you should never punch down and always try and punch up. Hillary is in the lead to win the nomination, and Trump is punching down past her to Sanders. This legitimizes Sanders as the natural ideological opponent to Trump. If Sanders were a smart politician he'd embrace this gift and go whole hog at Trump. Politically, as neocons jump ship and say they'll vote for Hillary, he should be highlighting that to the party. It's unfair to Hillary, in the sense that their support hurts her and she isn't asking for them to endorse her, but it is beneficial to Bernie.

By going after Trump, this puts Bernie in the news cycle which is all Trump all the time. It also taunts Trump into attacking him more, which only makes Bernie look good to the base. Every time Donald Trump opens his mouth and says his name, it's like a political gift. Every time some neocon from #NeverTrump embraces Hillary over Trump, it is also like a political gift.

So, if I were Sanders, I would be singing, "Hillary Clinton and the Neocons sitting in a tree, k-i-s-s-i-n-g, first comes love, then comes marriage, then comes the bombing of a baby carriage."

I would also be shouting from the rooftops, "My supporters know a demagogic authoritarian when they see one! Everywhere Trump goes, they should follow, and make their voices heard over his racist rhetoric. I encourage my supporters to spit in the face of this short fingered vulgarian, this sub-human waste that slithered out from Americas sweaty couch potato ass crack."

Okay, well maybe none of this in those exact words. However, very much that sentiment. I would love nothing more than some Trump supporters to come disrupt my rallies if I were Bernie Sanders, the more he looks like he is in conflict with Trump, the better it helps him in his primary fight.

However, I don't anticipate Bernie Sanders will do any of this--he has constantly squandered political opportunity after political opportunity to advance himself and actually win the nomination. He is practically a walking and talking example of political malpractice--as there is no real reason that he should be losing this nomination, save for his own incompetence as a politician.

Really, every second that Trump spends attacking Bernie Sanders is a good moment for Sanders.

[bvf]

1. The trouble is that Sanders prefers to talk about issues.

I personally don't want to see him in a mudfight with someone for whom mud is a natural habitat.

Sanders has already smacked him good a few times, by telling the truth. He's doing just fine, IMO.

Your second-to-last paragraph came out of nowhere, btw, and is way off-base, again IMO.

[Meldread]

3. That's why he is losing. He does not like to fight.

He called for a revolution, but he has refused to fight like a revolutionary. He is too nice for his own damn good. If he were prepared to fight, and fight really aggressively and hard, he would have defeated Hillary Clinton. Now he's behind.

This endless rah-rah-rah for Sanders, as if every decision he makes is just right, obscures the fact that he is a horrible politician. The Democratic Party as a whole was clearly ready to nominate someone other than Hillary Clinton. Sanders has failed to close the sale, because he has refused to get down in the mud and actually fight.

Sanders has always suffered from a lack of media attention, and no--it's not some corporate conspiracy, put away the tinfoil hat--it's because he does poorly in ratings. He is boring. The corporate media is all about infotainment, and that is why Donald Trump sucks up the airwaves.

I am not saying Bernie Sanders should be like Trump, of course, I am saying he benefits from publicly fighting with Trump. This shuts Hillary out of the media cycle, and keeps the attention and focus on him and his campaign.

[liberal_at_heart]

16. He is the only one fighting the 1%. If you have seen any of his speeches on the Congressional floor

or in the debates and rallies, you see him fighting. He is the only one willing to take on the 1%. I don't see any of the other politicians doing that. He is a fighter, and so are we his supporters.

[Meldread]

18. Words are wind. Speeches do not equal fighting. Speeches do not win political victories.

[liberal_at_heart]

22. I'm done arguing with you. You can wish he would go negative all you want. I don't care.

The fact is he has come from a 3-5% national support to almost tied nationally and the race is far from over. He doesn't have to go negative to gain support. His policy positions get him all the support he needs. Good bye.

[Meldread]

24. If his policy positions got him all the support he needs, he'd be winning. He's not.

Goodbye.

Sorry to hit you with a strong dose of reality.

[bvf]

28. Once I got to

"This endless rah-rah-rah for Sanders...,"

it became clear where you're coming from.

Want a blowhard in the White House? Vote Clinton.

Later.

[Meldread]

31. Bye.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

35. There was too much rah-rah "Bernie is perfect. "Anyone who disagrees is evil" thing going on for a

while. I saw the same thing here with Dean and Obama (I always felt uneasy and had doubts about them). I think Bernie is pretty much the real deal. It still is bothersome to me that there are those who are so enamored with him. He is human and humans will make mistakes.

[bvf]

36. Sounds like enthusiasm envy to me.

Last edited Mon Mar 14, 2016, 04:34 AM - Edit history (1)

Good luck with that.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

38. I admittedly have a hard time getting too excited about any politician.

I used to get pretty excited about Bernie but now I feel he's just another politician. Sorry for the cynicism.

[bvf]

39. No need to apologize.

No one could think any less of you for your lack of interest in the country's future, certainly.

[Skwmom]

2. Oh please. That would only benefit Clinton. n/t

[Meldread]

6. How?

It would provide approximately zero benefit to Hillary. As long as Sanders plays it smart and doesn't try to act over-the-top or dangerously with it it works in his favor.

The media is all about infotainment. They care about ratings. Trump drives ratings. Publicly fighting Trump puts Bernie Sanders and his campaign in the news. This shuts Hillary Clinton out of the news. Having a public fight with the Republican front runner is also good for Bernie, as it makes him look like the leader of the Democratic opposition. It will draw people to vote for and support him that might otherwise support Clinton.

[Skwmom]

13. The media is not all about infotainment. The CORP media is all about electing a CORP puppet.

[Meldread]

21. Put away the tinfoil hat. The corporate media is about ratings which means money.

There is no grand secret corporate conspiracy. They care only about money, and for newspapers and cable news that means they want eyeballs. Infotainment brings eyeballs.

This is why the corporate media is shit. However, this is where most Americans get their news.

[Skwmom]

37. If you seriously believe that, I have a bridge to sell you...

[beam me up scottie]

4. You guys still don't get Bernie.

He doesn't do negative, he doesn't like the dog and pony show, he was elected to do a job and he takes it seriously.

And frankly if he loses because he's not enough of an asshole to out-asshole Trump and the others then I can live with that.

You call that incompetence, I call it integrity.

[Meldread]

7. I don't deny he has lots of integrity.

However, I think winning matters more. Integrity is useless in politics. It's not going to get a law passed through Congress. It is not going to win an election. It is not going to help in the oval office.

There are no prizes for nice guys and gals. There is no gold metal for integrity.

I don't disagree with your assessment of Bernie. I think you're 100% right. I just think that is why he is losing. It's better to just accept that he is losing because he is a poor politician, rather than because "his ideas were too liberal" (which is what many will claim).

[liberal_at_heart]

8. No. Then we continue to fight to get more like him into Congress. You don't fight corruption by

becoming corrupt. Winning isn't always winning if you lose your soul in the process.

[Meldread]

11. It's not about becoming corrupt.

Corruption involves selling out your core values. We're not talking about values here, we're talking about tactics and strategy.

To become corrupt you actually have to be in power first.

[liberal_at_heart]

15. That's just it. He is not power hungry. He wants us to have the power, not himself.

Hey if he loses, he loses. I myself and I presume millions of others will continue the Revolution and continue to fight to put people like him in political office. We the people are sick of how politicians win elections. We're sick of Super Pacs. We're sick of negative campaigning. We're sick of suppressing the vote. We don't want that from our politicians. We want politicians who represent and serve us the people, not themselves and not the super rich. The two parties are both dying. 40% of Americans are now Independents because of how sick we are of politics as usual.

[Meldread]

17. That is delusional thinking.

This is why we as liberals continue to lose. We flee from power as if it were some awful thing.

As Alexander Hamilton said in the Federalist Papers, "What is a power, but the ability or faculty of doing a thing? What is the ability to do a thing, but the power of employing the means necessary to its execution?"

We dream of a just world, but we are afraid of employing the means to make it so, thus forever letting it remain a dream.

As Pascal said, "Justice without power is impotent; power without justice is tyranny."

We who are liberals are the standard bearers of justice, but we CHOOSE to be impotent. In choosing this, we allow the corrupt and the tyrannical to take power instead. After all, it would be a shame for us to dirty our beautiful golden halos in fighting for it.

[liberal_at_heart]

19. Centrists have been winning for over 30 years and our middle class is almost non existent.

Like it or not liberals are starting to fight back against centrist policies, and the country is starting to fight back too. Millions have lost jobs due to NAFTA and to the 2008 collapse. Millions have lost jobs, homes, retirement, education, all their savings. Our time is coming. Centrists, pragmatists, incrementalists, negative campaignists, have all had their time. That time is over. We will fight and we will win.

[Meldread]

23. Of course they are winning. It is because liberals are afraid of power.

I am unsure when liberalism went off the rails. You really should read something like Rules for Radicals by Saul Alinsky.

This is from back when liberals were actually successful and winning.

We are basically having this very same conversation:

[liberal_at_heart]

5. Sanders is not afraid to address Trump, but the really great thing about Bernie is he tries to stick

to the issues as much as possible unlike Trump. I don't want to see Bernie avoiding Trump but at the same time he needs to stick to the issues that affect working people such as trade policies, living wages, education, SS, and single payer healthcare.

[Meldread]

9. He's done that. He's not winning.

It's like watching a captain aboard a sinking ship in the middle of the ocean. Everyone wants to go to the lifeboats, but the Captain demands that they stay the course and start bailing out the water with buckets. Eventually, the water overtakes the ship and everyone drowns.

My big concern is that when Bernie Sanders loses people will say it was "because his ideas were too liberal" rather than because he was a poor politician, who couldn't capitalize on political opportunities that would advance his campaign and the liberal movement.

[liberal_at_heart]

14. You're wrong. He started his national campaign with like 3-5%. Something like that.

He has been 20 to 30 points behind in the polls everywhere he goes. But when it comes down to election day, those margins are greatly reduced if not completely eliminated and he is nearly tied with her in the national polls. from 3-5% to nearly tied nationally. That is amazing. I don't have a crystal ball. I don't know if he will win, but the support he does have comes from the fact that so many Americans are sick and freaking tired of the way politicians run campaigns and run the country. He is doing exactly what he needs to be doing.

[Meldread]

25. Wonderful. Let's give him the silver for second place. It still means he lost.

The reality is that there are no rewards for second place. You either win or you lose. If you are not winning, then you are doing something wrong.

[KelleyKramer]

29. Yeah, he got his ass kicked by 20+ points in Michigan ...

Just like the captain of a sinking ship. And then ... oh wait! He won Michigan


.

[Meldread]

30. Winning Michigan does not a President make.

[KelleyKramer]

33. You said he's not winning, now you say ...

Oh forget it

Buh bye

[ScreamingMeemie]

10. This. It's how he finally won me over.

[Rebkeh]

12. I trust my candidate to make that decision. eom

[Person 2713]

20. this sub-human waste that slithered out from Americas sweaty couch potato ass crack

You had me at short fingered vulgarian. I remember when I first heard that,
but the America's SCPAC is perfect

[CentralMass]

26. This (incident) smells like a turd meant to derail Sanders campaign.

[Sunlei]

27. Let the Republicans deal with their Republican primary frontrunner.

[JI7]

32. no, Sanders doesn't need Trump to legitimize him. and the reason he got support is because of his

talking about issues. if that changes to focus on Trump then it will hurt him more than anything else since it would be less time to talk about what has been getting him support.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

34. If you lie down with dogs, you catch fleas. Bernie is above that - as should any decent pol. be.

It's honestly hard to want to support him when his supporters act immaturely. The only thing that helps me from feeling like he's some wild-eyed crazy (after seeing/hearing some nonsense) is to see him speak and to read articles. As an older female who does really appreciate him, I want to see an adult, not someone who is going to adopt Trump-like antics. Much as I want to cheer and chuckle when I see the protesters at the Trump rallies - I don't like it when it looks like Sanders is being dragged down to Trumps level.

Of course, this all goes out the window if Bernie (or Hillary) is the nominee and ends up being screwed over by the media and Trump starts beating him by sucking all the oxygen out of the room - much like what he did to his fellow Republicans. We may have to resort to some

[GreatGazoo]

40. Sanders is running a phenomenal campaign. Literally phenomenal.

The best ads of all
http://www.campaignlive.com/article/bernie-sanders-effective-political-ads-2016-presidential-race/1379312

And he has called out Trump repeatedly for months now. The problem has been that the MSM covers Trump and excludes Bernie as is shown in the coverage of the outbreak of non-violence at the Chicago college Trump event.

But to be sure, Sanders has called Trump out (2/22):
https://berniesanders.com/press-release/sanders-on-trump-bring-him-on/

And Sanders is winning this thing


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jonathan-greenberg/polldefying-pattern-predi_b_9434118.html

While Clinton is trying to keep her alleged base from walking away:

[bvf]

41. Wish we could rec posts. Excellent. n/t