Chicago Tribune: "Hillary can't win. She's the establishment candidate in year of insurgency."

[Attorney in Texas]

link to Hillary can't win. She's the establishment candidate in year of insurgency; excerpt:

Hillary Clinton, with her massive fundraising, her Democratic Party insider status, the Wall Street speeches bringing more cash, the Clinton Foundation clout, the connections foreign and domestic... is the political embodiment of the establishment. And that spells serious trouble for her, because the American people are in an insurgent mood, fueled by the holes in their bank accounts, all those jobs Bill Clinton sent overseas with his support of NAFTA, and the rifts in what we once called the common culture. It spreads across class lines like fire in a dry riverbed. It won't stop until the weeds are gone.... But the Democrat... turnout in primaries is low. ... She has other problems, including the consensus from primary exit polls that she's considered to be a liar. Young women don't like her much, perhaps because Clinton's old feminist allies tried to shame them into submission. Now Hillary is thought of as some angry grandmother.

She seems overly scripted, stuffy, tired, as if every word she speaks has been poll-tested and run past criminal lawyers. ... Even Democrats who aren't excited by Clinton say that she deserves the nomination.... But Clint Eastwood explained all you need to know about the deserving to a dying Gene Hackman in the Oscar-winning western "Unforgiven." Hackman, shot and on the ground, said he didn't deserve to go that way.

"Deserve's got nothin' to do with it," Eastwood told him.... Deserves have nothing to do with power politics. Timing is everything. And I don't see Hillary winning, because she's the wrong candidate at the wrong time.

Not a fan, but I cannot pass up a good quote from "Unforgiven."

[saltpoint]

1. I'm hearing Tina Turner, doing

"What's Deserve, got to do, got to do with it..."

[Betty Karlson]

3. And I'm hearing Nina Turner.

Love that woman. (Tina is great too.)

[saltpoint]

6. May they thrive.

On that Tina Turner tune, I find it "playing" in my head fairly often. In the grocery counter line, at the post office, here and there and the other place.

I don't think it's the best composition ever. But she sings it like it was.

[Baobab]

31. lying to the whole country about health care is unforgivable.. for 20 years -

figure 100,000 excess deaths a year, (excess deaths amenable to improved health care) thats the cost of letting scammers in high places delay resolution of the problem with solutions KNOWN TO WORK with lies for 20 years while they tried to negotiate GATS - and repeatedly failed because countries refused to dump their beloved public services even as the small print in trade deals sealed their fates.

[saltpoint]

42. My take is that Tina Turner was

not involved in any of that.

I could be wrong.

[Aerows]

64. I agree

That the state of health care it is not Tina Turner's fault!

[Samantha]

95. You are NEVER wrong, Saltpoint

I can back you up on that.

Sam

[saltpoint]

96. Hey there.

Thanks, Sam. I hope people realize I'm not disparaging Tina Turner. She strikes me as a notably self-directed soul.

I just don't think she's all that complicit in world political scandals.

I hope all's well your way. 'Am hoping for some good news indeed this evening in some of these primary states. Go, Bernie!

[peacebird]

2. #WhichHillary is running? Which would she be if elected? No one knows.

She is clearly unelectable.

[Betty Karlson]

4. Most Hillary-s are unelectable.

I guess her campaign is frantically trying to find one that is still palatable to the 2016 voter.

[peacebird]

9. The SNL Hillary ad was hysterical last weekend, where she morphed into Bernie

[C Moon]

57. Just saw it for the first time just now. THAT WAS HILLARYARIOUS!!

[senz]

34. Precisely what they're doing.

[Cavallo]

39. We know exactly what she will be if elected. When the campaign is over she goes back to being the

warhawk and excepting funding from private prisons. She'll also help with regulation to get people locked up easier and more often which is what the private prison lobby she was taking money from is lobbying for.

[sorechasm]

74. MSM calls that 'recallibrating' her message to win the general election.

As if the voters were mere cogs in Hillary's war machine that needed adjustment. They must think we're imbeciles to fall for it.

[hobbit709]

5. About time us insurgents got somewhere.

[Baobab]

33. Actually we're just staying with American values even as the neoliberals have tried to get rid of th

using trade deals which are basically lawyers tricks.

Bernie's platform, pretending GATS and WTO don't exist, is brilliant.

[Cavallo]

45. Bernie is against WTO.

Bernie Sanders: Withdraw from the WTO Now! (6/8/2005)

He's spoken about the latest trade agreement. For his relatively little time in the news, I don't think he should be digging out all trade agreements but sticking on topic about what people are focusing on right now.

There's plenty on Gats and Bernie too:
https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search;_ylt=AwrT6VrjQudWlIEAPYQnnIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTEyaDMwbTNqBGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDQjE1OTJfMQRzZWMDc2M-?p=Bernie+Sanders+Gats+Walmart&fr=yhs-mozilla-005&hspart=mozilla&hsimp=yhs-005

Unlike Hillary, Bernie sanders is against these things when it's not Campaign season.

[Baobab]

55. if the new FTAs pass, Bernie's entire platform is moot

if the FTAs pass, elections can't matter.

they are designed to take everything of economic value off the table.

Look what happened in Slovakia

What would be the point of putting all these billions of man hours into trade deals if their binding requirements could be nullified by a piddly election and 'politics'.

Its not like that any more. Corporate rule means corporations rule.

[Cavallo]

65. Then why is Obama trying to sell it to us and congress?

[hedda_foil]

69. Well he could pull us out of all the FTAs, WTO, etc. Dubya abrogated treaties I believe.

[Baobab]

83. the FTAs are the reason he was nominated - he was an expert at sweet-talking

poor people out of their homes.

[MADem]

7. The Tribune?

They lean well right-the only reason they endorsed BHO is because he was a local and they thought it was good for the city/state. They were great fans of George W. Bush. I've got to laugh at some of the definitions in the piece, certainly.

Someone who has been collecting a government paycheck for 33 years is now classified as an "insurgent?"

And quoting Clint "Talk to the Chair" Eastwood?

Sounds like creative writing to me....

See--Hillary CAN win. And here's why:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/03/14/why-hillary-clintons-delegate-lead-over-bernie-sanders-is-bigger-than-it-looks/

[ChairmanAgnostic]

8. Yet the Suntimes endorsed her.

Funny, they refused to endorse anyone from several state wide offices or local offices from the GOP.

[MADem]

12. They probably endorsed her for the same reason the Trib endorsed Obama.

All politics is local, and that is her birthplace.

The IL connection trumps party lines. Pardon the use of the word "trump" -- that jerk is ruining a perfectly good word, I'm afraid.

[Ferd Berfel]

22. Suntimes and trib are owned by the same people now

[Baobab]

36. So, she's a Republican.

She is their candidate.

[Attorney in Texas]

11. You understand that it was Clint Eastwood's character in "The Unforgiven" who was quoted, not Clint

himself who's personally a bit of an ass, right?

I said I'm not a fan of Chicago Tribune editorials, but it is a thoughtful commentary and the analysis was spot-on.

[MADem]

14. Using Clint Eastwood, regardless of whether it is a character or himself, to make a point is

a dumbass move in most Democratic circles.

He demonstrated to all that he is a right wing lunatic with his Chair Dissertation at the GOP convention.

He's not a hero--he's an old BUFFOON.

smh!

I mean, come on--Hitler loved dogs, but we don't make him the spokesmodel for the ASPCA....

Sorry for the Godwin reference, but that's how dumb it is to use "Clint Eastwood" on a Democratic board for ANY reason.

You're new, though. Maybe you don't remember this...but many of your fellow DUers do.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021240187

[Attorney in Texas]

15. Have you seen "The Unforgiven"? Morgan Freeman, Frances Fisher, Richard Harris, Gene Hackman?

It's a good movie. The movie was being quoted.

Do you also think that only creepy men like Woody Allen movies or Roman Polanski movies? I hope not because I love their movies notwithstanding the fact that I won't defend their personal life choices and conduct. Likewise, I am not prohibited from enjoying "The Unforgiven" simply because Clint Eastwood turned nasty in his senility.

[MADem]

16. Using Clint Eastwood on a Democratic message board to "prove" any assertion is a strong error

in judgment.

How many times do I have to repeat this?

And bringing in Woody "Child Molester" Allen or his partner in crime Polanski to bolster your point?

Keep digging.

"Enjoy" all you want, but don't go dragging that asshole up in here and holding him out to be some kind of icon. And don't think you can call what he said at the RNC convention a product of "senility." It was utter LOATHING that drove him, loathing of one of the best Presidents we've ever had, who has operated under constant assault during his two terms.

So screw Clint Eastwood--he is no example to us, for ANY reason.

smh.

[Attorney in Texas]

20. OK. I quoted a newspaper editorial, which quoted a movie, in which Clint Eastwood was an actor

playing a fictional character by reading lines he did not even write, and you think that Eastwood's right-wing senility taints, the movie in which he appeared, and thus taints the editorial which quotes the movie, and thus taints me because I quoted the editorial, and this all taints DU.

Who else is on the list of people so villainous that we cannot quote newspapers who quote movies in which they appear as fictional characters reading lines which they did not write?

[stupidicus]

23. hilarious ain't they?

by those standards, HC should be toast based on her relationships with the BUsh's, Kissinger, etc, etc, etc...

[Attorney in Texas]

25. It does have a Twilight Zone feel to it. NOTE: I checked to confirm that Rod Serling was a suitable

role model before posting a reference to the Twilight Zone: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_Serling

[stupidicus]

27. are you sure he's "clean" though

you know how they just make it up over there at wiki...lol

[Attorney in Texas]

29. I took a risk on Rod. I hope he doesn't let me down.

[m-lekktor]

28. that was bizarre. it's not like he was playing himself in the movie!

[Attorney in Texas]

30. Very. I think it may have to do with the high stress of the campaign. That's understandable.

[m-lekktor]

38. I think you are being kind! I will just smh and move on! nt

[MADem]

47. LOL!! This isn't an obscure reference...to anyone who has been around for awhile.

Keep pushing, though! Double down on your right wing editorial, written by a right-wing journalist, "lionizing" an addled actor who is, owing to his tough guy, gun nut movie persona, adored by the right wing!











Who else? Why....Sea lions!


Don't quote obvious right wing sources, at least without explaining why you're using them (like, perhaps, to illustrate what idiots the right wing can be)--there's a start.

Most Democrats know this already.

[Marr]

51. Let me get this straight.

A writer who references a line from a Clint Eastwood cowboy movie is betraying their true conservative stripes... but a Secretary of State who cites Henry Kissinger as a personal mentor is fine?

You might want to re-read these things before you hit 'post'.

[MADem]

59. He's not "betraying his conservative stripes...."

He's drumming up support for the guy that HE believes--rightly or wrongly--is the easiest for his conservative favorite to defeat.

It's not rocket science!

And, to quote YOU:

You might want to re-read these things before you hit 'post'.

[Marr]

77. Um... yeah, that's what 'betraying' would mean in this context.

Definition number five here:
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/betray?o=O

So again, you think quoting a cowboy movie means something, but openly describing Kissinger as a personal mentor means nothing.

[MADem]

81. No, he's touting Sanders so his conservative favorite will presumably face a weaker candidate.

Not sure why you're having a tough time with this concept. It's as old as ancient fables.

[Marr]

82. I give up. You have a nice evening. /nt

[Vote2016]

78. this whole discussion is HILARIOUS! I want to believe it's a subtle self parody too nuanced for me

to fully appreciate but I'm scared it's not.

[A Simple Game]

50. Some on DU aren't worth "communicating with" if you know what I mean.

But that being said I still get into an infrequent "discussion" with that one when I am having a moment of weakness.

there is no winning, only frustration.

[MADem]

60. //////

A Simple Game (8,929 posts)
50. Some on DU aren't worth "communicating with" if you know what I mean.

But that being said I still get into an infrequent "discussion" with that one when I am having a moment of weakness.

there is no winning, only frustration.

That's a keeper.

[A Simple Game]

66. Thanks for the compliment. n/t

[MADem]

72. You are more than welcome. nt

[JonLeibowitz]

58. Utterly bizarre exchange

I will say that it is encouraging to me that it is not merely a difference of opinion that separates the two factions on DU, but a vast chasm on how to view the world, evaluate evidence, and inspect biases.

It is personally heartening to me that many Bernie supporters are on the right side of this divide.

[MADem]

61. I never welcomed you to DU. Welcome to DU.

JonLeibowitz (3,787 posts)
58. Utterly bizarre exchange

I will say that it is encouraging to me that it is not merely a difference of opinion that separates the two factions on DU, but a vast chasm on how to view the world, evaluate evidence, and inspect biases.

It is personally heartening to me that many Bernie supporters are on the right side of this divide.

[JonLeibowitz]

76. Why thank you! And thanks for quoting me too (though I'm sure you have your reasons...)

[nadinbrzezinski]

62. Book recomendation

Marc J. Hetherington;Jonathan D. Weiler. Authoritarianism and Polarization in American Politics

It will be a critical read as the two parties realign, or one of them finally goes away. Not an easy slog... but easier than city budgets... so there is that.

[JonLeibowitz]

84. Thanks! ...

The Pasadena public library does not have it, but i was able to request it at no cost through my university library. The perks of being in school!

[nadinbrzezinski]

85. I bought on Kindle last night

started to go though it. I have a few others that if you want i can recommend. Anything by Ornstein and polarization is a must imho.

[JonLeibowitz]

86. I may take you up on that. I can recommend Twilight of the Elites.

It is one of the few political books which seems most prescient this cycle. Chris Hayes has been talking it up recently because I don't even think he knew how well it would predict the arc of both parties this cycle. I have to recommend Aaron Swartz's book review as it alone is worth the read:

http://crookedtimber.org/2012/06/18/guest-review-by-aaron-swartz-chris-hayes-the-twilight-of-the-elites/

[nadinbrzezinski]

87. Yup, that is a good book

Oldie but goodie, none does it like Hunter Thomson ever did, Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas...And it is a good intro to wha ails us,

National Security, Double Government by Michael Glennon... a must to understand why it matters not who gets elected, foreign affairs seem to continue unabated

Naomi Klein, both, This Changes Everyting and The Shock Doctrine.

Picketty's Capital is a tour de force. (And a hard one as well)

And I just gave you a lot of very heavy reading.

[JonLeibowitz]

88. Thanks! Piketty has been on my reading list for quite some time. What a beast of a project that is..

[nadinbrzezinski]

90. I actually went though that beast

and did a review of it... it was... a project

[Major Hogwash]

93. It truly was an odd reaction, while totally ignoring the context of the article.

I suppose we can't ask "is this as good as it gets" without getting a barrage of crap for the character that Nicholson played in that movie, either.

The fact is -- she doesn't deserve it, just because she thinks she deserves it.
And that was the frickin' point!!

[greatauntoftriplets]

17. The author of that piece is right winger John Kass.

To see him quoted here is laughable.

[MADem]

18. At this stage of the game, sad to say, it's expected.

[greatauntoftriplets]

32. Sad, but true.

To my knowledge, he's never had anything good to say about Democrats. His columns about President Obama have been disgusting.

[Major Hogwash]

94. So what? David Brock is ON Hillary's campaign staff, fer christ's sake!!

To see either quoted here as liberals is laughable, but at least Bernie didn't pay Kass to write that article!!!

[JDPriestly]

21. But can she win in November?

I really don't think so.

[Baobab]

40. She's still leading?

Somehow, I just dont think she can keep the lid on all the issues.

they are just waiting until its sure she's the nominee to let them loose.

[MADem]

101. I counted just five, but point made!

OH, IL, NC, FL, and MO.

It was a great day!

The author of that piece shouldn't think a career in prognostication is in the cards.

[Cobalt Violet]

10. the low info's are all going for her.

They're going to cost us all dearly. I really hope enough Bernie supporters show up to outnumber them.

[pdsimdars]

13. Shocking!!! to think that a "corporate media" gets it!

That is unusual today. Good on them!

[Helen Borg]

19. I dislike Clinton, but... FUCK Eastwood!

[jalan48]

24. Definitely stuffy and tired. It's as if she's just waiting for the move-in date to arrive.

[stupidicus]

26. AWK AWK Eastwood is tangentially attached to the HC critique, ergo all factual assertions

and conclusions derived from them may be summarily dismissed as balderdash

lol

[senz]

43. And it's exactly how Faux News operates.

Funny, that.

[Dont call me Shirley]

35. Feel The Bern! Bern Baby Bern!

[speaktruthtopower]

37. Going to depend..

on how credible the insurgent is by November.

[Divernan]

41. "It's all there in the dull weight of her eyes."

She wants desperately to win. She's endured painful decades of Bill, years of Barack, eating all the insults like so many sins and swallowing them down as the price of her ambition. It's all there in the dull weight of her eyes.

[Jarqui]

44. I think it's hard to go along with the thread title. It's too absolute.

It depends on who the GOP nominate.

But I think there is some merit to their opinion in that people wanted change with Obama and they still want more change. Therefore, someone like Ciinton is handicapped because there is no getting around the fact that she, no matter what she says, is not a real change candidate.

I don't know if that will cost her the election.

If she is up against a candidate with no political background, she's at a disadvantage on that issue.

In Trumps case, he's even more unpopular than Hillary so Hillary may well prevail over the disadvantage from being the establishment candidate.

[nadinbrzezinski]

46. Ok this is coming from the Tribune, the paper of record in Chicago

it must be snowing in hell, and them polls must really be showing something.

[MADem]

48. It's coming from a wingnut at the Tribune. Consider the source.

Not all "journalists" are created equal.

[nadinbrzezinski]

52. And I know the tribune

[Beacool]

49. We'll find out in November.

[PatrickforO]

53. I've been saying this for months.

If our nominee is Bernie, he will win.

If it is Clinton, Trump will win.

Sad, but I'm convinced it is true.

[SoapBox]

54. And they have Slick-Bully Bullhorn Willy to boot!

Oh and that "Clinton Foundation clout"?

I say, investigate the living hell out of that thing!

No...More...Clintons...EVER!

[Martin Eden]

56. The Trib endorsed Rubio, and refused to endorse either Bernie or Hillary

I take their opinions with heavy grains of salt.

[brooklynite]

68. This isn't their opinion; it's an op-ed

[Martin Eden]

91. OK, then the OP title is misleading

Didn't realize at first glance it was written by the big ass known as John Kass.

Every time I see him on page 2 I am painfully reminded what a huge downgrade he is from Mike Royko.

[greatauntoftriplets]

89. Take John Kass with a big grain of salt.

He's a right winger.

[Martin Eden]

92. Yep.

He's like a poor man's version of Charles Krauthammer.

[HenryWallace]

63. Not helpful!

Kass is an idiot!

He wants all Democrats and/or otherwise progressive candidates to crash and burn.


PS: Last year he wrote a column about his only twin sons leaving from college...... and he screwed it up!

[Waiting For Everyman]

67. The first rats are leaving the ship.

Greenfield wrote a similar piece yesterday and now this one. They must know the good ship Hillary has been hit below the water line and they're beginning to bale.

They know something.

I'm thinking two things: election numbers, and State Department.

[Recoverin_Republican]

70. Republican Operatives Try to Help Bernie Sanders: "We'll win every state if Bernie's their nominee"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511276724

[AzDar]

71. She's also a really BAD candidate...

[Enbver]

99. Yup

Awful.

[PatrynXX]

73. Something about that quote

as I'm sitting going thru movies mostly classic westerns with James Stewart in them I ran up on my NAS server had that old southern drawl in the narration. Loved it actually. Probably not a fan but yeah Would figure I'm watching classic westerns and poof it ends in a quote from one , thats two I woulda loved seeing together James Stewart and Clint Eastwood. Can't but woulda been fun. yeah sure John Wayne who wouldn't

[Proud Liberal Dem]

75. Can't?

Let's wait until the votes are all counted first, eh? She is.....you know....leading by a healthy margin at present in the primary. Premature BS.

[pkdu]

79. Commenter Ed O'Donnell sums this crap up 45 words and 2 question marks

Ed O'Donnell

Kass have you completely lost any sense of how to construct an opinion piece? Ever hear the word Persuasion?

Its when you refer to facts, rather then disneyesque stereotypes, to make a point. Maybe cut back on the ouzo while at the keyboard next time.

[Recoverin_Republican]

80. Chicago Tribune, not surprisingly, is trying to help the Republican cause by boosting the GOP's

preferred opponent, Bernie Sanders.



http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511491298

[Recursion]

97. This is roughly where I am

I think she'd be a better President than Sanders, I just don't see how she could win the general this cycle.

[Enbver]

98. No she can't!

Lol

[Freethinker65]

102. John Kass endorsed Cruz on page 2 the same day the Chicago Trib endorsed Rubio.

.....and Trump won Illinois. Enough said

[Jenny_92808]

103. "Deserve's got nothin' to do with it"

[riversedge]

104. This was written on March 13, 2 days before Hillary's massive

wins last night.

[book_worm]

105. Quoting a right wing (editorially) rag that refused to endorse both Clinton and Sanders

Nice. But that's what you guys have been doing--spreading right wing talking points.