2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumA Super Tuesday
Tuesday, March 15, is an important 24-hours in the presidential primary contests. Five states are in play: Ohio, Florida, North Carolina, Illinois, and Missouri. Both Democrats and republicans will be voting. I hope that tomorrow is a good day for the Democratic Party, with an extremely large voter turn-out.
The contest for our partys nomination is, no matter who you favor, one of the most intense that we will witness in our life-times. It is not what anyone anticipated a year ago. We all remember the intensity of the 2008 Democratic primary, which eventually led to Barack Obamas historic presidency. And many of us can recall other primaries and conventions being contested fervently. But none were as important to the future of life in the United States as 2016s.
Of particular concern to me -- although it has to do with the republican primaries -- is the ever-increasing violence on the part of Donald Trumps supporters. It is an undeniable fact that the more unhinged of his following believe that his campaign has granted them a license to be violent. Of course, this comes as no surprise to anyone in the DU community. You might be supporting Bernie Sanders, or you might be supporting Hillary Clinton -- it makes no difference -- youve seen this coming.
When Trump feigns being a tough guy on stage, and says that hell pay the legal fees for anyone charged with roughing-up a protester, theres really only one outcome. That doesnt mean 100% of the audience is going to engage in an orgy of violence. But it does mean that we are coming closer to it. Crowd psychology comes into play.
I remember that John Lennon, during the last tour with The Beatles, had a frightening insight while on stage. When he bend one knee, and dipped his guitar in one direction, the crowd reacted; if he looked in another direction while singing, another section of the crowd reacted. He recognized that it wasnt a group of individuals any more: the crowd was an organism, and entity. And, despite some performers gimmicks, he knew The Beatles no longer had any control over the crowd. Indeed, the fact they needed security, to both get on and off the stage, reinforced his understanding that crowds are not easily controlled.
A few years later, of course, Jim Morrison of The Doors conducted fascinating experiments with crowds of people who, as individuals, were laid-back, peaceful people. But, as a crowd, they became anything but the vision of hippies.
In my own experience, Ive studied two types of crowds. The first was those who attended boxing matches, both amateur and professional. Ive seen people behave in totally out-of-control ways, that they would never do as individuals. In fact, after my 329th bout, which was my last, the father of the fellow that I had just easily defeated jumped into the ring, and challenged me to fight him. I was polite, but very firm, in communicating to him as an individual that he didnt want to go there.
The other example involves public meetings, where people are tense, because important social-economic-political issues are being debated. I still keep both sections of a board that a gentleman broke by hitting me over the head with it. One half includes a piece of an American flag decoration that he had applied to the board, to identify -- in his mind -- what team he was on. In recent years, at public hearings about fracking, six people have -- in front of plenty of witnesses -- threatened (or promised) to kill me. (Note: this does not bother me, as I believe that if anyone was serious, he would not warn me.)
When an associate and I were handing out an epidemiological studys survey, going door-to-door in an upstate New York community, my partner was shocked at the aggressive behavior of several people in an upper-middle class neighborhood. He wanted to get his rifle, quite literally, and stand guard while I continued going door-to-door. He was that intimidated. (Obviously, I would not call upon this associate for further public work. More, he was not the only person to react that way.)
The amount of fear plus hatred that Trump campaign on convinces these gadflies that they have the right and responsibility to destroy the enemy. And you know that they hate both Hillary and Bernie. In fact, they hate you as much as they hate me. They have identified you as their enemy, and a threat to their familys security
.simply because you have decided to vote for a specific candidate, and/or feel strongly about a specific candidate.
We need a huge voter turn-out tomorrow. I don not care if you are supporting Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders
..what is important as that if you live in one of those five states, get out there and make your voice be heard. For in doing so, you are not only supporting one candidate, you are saying No! to an aggressive, mutant form of cancer growing within our society. And that is huge. It is essential for our effort to revive our constitutional democracy.
Thank you.
Peace,
H2O Man
Uncle Joe
(59,570 posts)Thanks for the thread, H2O Man.
H2O Man
(74,696 posts)kgnu_fan
(3,021 posts)I believe that we have some ugly days ahead of us. And for what? Because people want to vote.
suffragette
(12,232 posts)Heard this song from a busker at Pike Place market today.
He was raking in the dollars.
K&R for your OP.
H2O Man
(74,696 posts)I was thinking of some lyrics for my daughter to put to music today. I remember what a powerful social force that music was, back when I was her age.
Thanks!
suffragette
(12,232 posts)Music still is a powerful social force.
Did you ever see the duet Mary J. Blige and U2 did of "One" after Katrina to raise funds?
The lyrics took on new meaning in the context of the tragedy and through their powerful and emotional deliverance.
Here, I found a video of it:
https://m.
Punkingal
(9,522 posts)What I am talking about is people who live where I grew up in Tennessee. My son still lives there, and he told me that 90% of the people he talked to were voting for Trump. Now, these are people I have known all my life, good people, some of whom never voted Republican in their lives.
I wish I had the luxury of believing Trump supporters are some kind of wild abberation that will fade away, but they are not. It scares me that people like this are Trump voters. They aren't listening closely enough. They are just angry and thinking they are finding their answers in him. Some of them will no doubt be turned off by the violence, but I fear not enough of them. It is frightening.
These people have very low thresh-holds for frustration. They become very aggressive, when anyone challenges their rigid belief systems. That things will get uglier is not a question; just how ugly they get, is an open question.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)YOU WERE A BOXER?!! DDD
Long ago, I was. And pretty darned good, at that. I was first the subject of a feature article in an international boxing magazine at the age of 13. Seems like a life-time ago!
Gregorian
(23,867 posts)I just hope people have prepared, and do vote.
I know one thing, and that is what Cornell West said so poetically, "The Sanders campaign is a love train". He exhibited it again today with Chuck Todd. He was baited, and responded by simply applying democratic principles to answer a more important question. We have to win the primary, but this one central component to the campaign will do more for the country even without a win. It's opposite of the Orange Hitler campaign. But I think that is why people can't truly find a way to get angry at the Sanders campaign. Maybe unruly supporters (like me on the forum ). I also believe that this friendly core context of the campaign will have attracted voters to come out in historic numbers tomorrow.
Man, you went out on a high note. Boxing, that is.
H2O Man
(74,696 posts)some impressive turnouts. I've had a number of friends and associates telling me that they are pleasantly surprised by how many people are talking about the various candidates, and really focusing on what is best for our nation. And those are conversations that really need to be happening now -- rather than just during the general election.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Peace to you, H20 Man! On the morrow: Good luck!
H2O Man
(74,696 posts)Some days, I feel the effects of every one of them. Because in that arena, both the winner and loser come out hurt, and damaged.
I've got to call you soon. I really enjoy our opportunities to discuss the issues of the day in an in-depth way with you. And, holy crow, there is a lot to talk about!
mak3cats
(1,573 posts)Sorry for the levity, but minds and hearts like yours (and Bernie's) are what we need in our country's leadership. Always savor reading your posts; thank you.
H2O Man
(74,696 posts)I really believe that as president, Bernie Sanders will speak and act in our best interests. And in ways, as well as to an extent, that no previous president has done. As an old grass roots activist, I have long anticipated such a day .....and longed for it to take place within my lifetime. That is so important for me.
panader0
(25,816 posts)That's more than I had in high school.
On the other hand, I've laid over 2 million block in my day.
I sometimes used to think of laying block as a boxing match. I'd start a course and bust my ass for a couple of minutes.
Then, when the closure was laid, I had a moment to stand straight up, regroup, walk back to the corner and raise the
line . Then begin a new course.
H2O Man
(74,696 posts)That's it, exactly. A fight need not be fought at one pace, non-stop. It includes taking full advantage of that minute's rest between rounds. And knowing when to apply pressure, and when not to.
(However, almost a third of my bouts ended in less than a round!)
panader0
(25,816 posts)Laying block, I faced an inanimate object, not a foe (although I always tried to outlay the other guys, and did.)
Boxing is a distinctly different thing, different than any other sport, facing a man and not a task.
Blocks don't punch back. I have huge respect for boxers, as you know. I also have huge respect for
people who take action in their communities like you have. I will come visit some day. I have many
relatives in upstate NY. Canton and Syracuse. Thanks for another fine piece.
I'm convinced that all of real life imitates the sport of boxing ....from politics, to brick-laying, to cooking supper.
I surely do look forward to meeting you!
Response to H2O Man (Original post)
Sensitive soul This message was self-deleted by its author.
H2O Man
(74,696 posts)Thank you for voting! And I expect that tomorrow's results will be encouraging.
I have a few friends in Florida who want me to bring my younger son there to fight. Three of them are former world champions. It's funny: I tell D that I wish I had had the type of opportunities he has, back when I was young (in the early 1800s).
Response to H2O Man (Reply #22)
Sensitive soul This message was self-deleted by its author.
Babel_17
(5,400 posts)THE LAST DANCER
A Tale of the Continuing Time
There are no longer dancers, the possessed. The cleavage of men into actors and spectators is the central fact of our time. We are obsessed with heroes who live for us and whom we punish... We have metamorphised from a mad body dancing on hillsides to a pair of eyes staring in the dark.
Jim Morrison
THE AI WAR
A TALE OF THE CONTINUING TIME
DANIEL KEYS MORAN
"Players" -- the child, the actor, and the gambler. The idea of chance is absent from the world of the child and the primitive. The gambler also feels in service of an alien power. Chance is a survival of religion in the modern city . . .
-- Jim Morrison
H2O Man
(74,696 posts)Thank you!
JeffHead
(1,186 posts)2-0 slam dunk win for Bernie and Tammy Duckworth in this household.
Thank you very much!
JeffHead
(1,186 posts)Ruby the Liberal
(26,229 posts)That doesn't happen often. He was on stage with Chris 'The Hostage' Christie and some reporter asked him about the violence at his events. Drumpf responded that there has been no violence AND that "no one has been hurt". My cat heard that dog whistle.
Someone is going to get seriously hurt (or killed) at one of these gigs. It terrifies me to think what will happen to this country if that happens. Polling places with a police presence? Dear Lord.
840high
(17,196 posts)that. I expect both sides to follow the law and be peaceful. We are not a 3rd world country.
H2O Man
(74,696 posts)Trump is so arrogant, that although he realizes he is not able to control "the crowd," he is unwilling to adjust his rhetoric. And the outcome is not going to be good.
If Jim Morrison was charged with inciting a riot, then Donald Trump should be, as well.
PWPippin
(213 posts)Trump seems like a typical bully - a lot of bluster, but a coward inside. What is most worrisome is that he can up the amp and get others to do what he never would AND deny responsibility when things go horribly wrong.
On another note, my dad boxed in college and often drew parallels between life and boxing. He would have enjoyed your observations, as do I.
I remember when Mike Tyson was in his out-of-control phase .....after Cus D'Amato had died, Mike had trashed Don King, and Mike's marriage splintered ......Trump was trying to buy in on his contract. He wanted to manage Mike's career. Of course, he knew nothing about boxing, and had no understanding of who Tyson was, or why he was exploding and imploding in the pathetic manner he was. But Donald wanted to own "the baddest man on the planet." It wasn't as much for the money -- though Mike meant millions in profits to the parasites -- it was to possess a weapon that scared people. (If Trump had "owned" Mike, we wouldn't have this situation today, for obvious reasons!)
I wish I had had the opportunity to meet your Dad. I have the utmost respect for everyone who has walked from the dressing room, into that ring. More than in any other sport, in boxing, one competes against themselves. It's just there's another guy attempting to knock you unconscious!
Liberal Jesus Freak
(1,454 posts)You make sense in a most compassionate...and intelligent...way. Thank you.
H2O Man
(74,696 posts)I appreciate that!
kgnu_fan
(3,021 posts)Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)I can't believe someone cracked you over the head with their board.
Was it a clipboard?
I had a kid hit me over the head with a clipboard once at school, and that was the last time he ever sat in our class.
The teacher had him go to the principal's office and he wound up getting sent to a youth ranch for wayward boys.
But, to think an adult did that, Jesus!
H2O Man
(74,696 posts)Luckily, not a 2-by-4 .....I was once attacked by a gentleman with a 2-by-4, and ended up with a broken forearm. I haven't required The Weather Channel to predict rain ever since.
No, it was a board. The fellow dropped the half he was holding and disappeared. So I picked both ends up, to keep as sort of a trophy. I had quite a head ache for a couple of days.