Hillary at MSNBC town hall We didn't lose a single life in Libya

[RunInCircles]

She was justifying the Libyan Invasion and said "We didn't lose a single American life in Libya".
Ambassador Stevens??

[Its Got Electrolytes]

1. I guess Benghazi is now a bad memory

erased by Clinton?

[bunnies]

5. #historybyhillary Nt

[tk2kewl]

54. its's just like "George Bush kept us safe"

[GeorgiaPeanuts]

91. That was exactly my first thought

It is like Republicans denying reality and suggesting Bush kept us safe even though 9/11 happened on his watch.

[Ruby the Liberal]

59. Great username!

This election makes me wonder if we aren't halfway there...

[deathrind]

78. I swear

That movie was a documentary disguised as a comedy...

I think we are way past half way there 🍻😬

[Kittycat]

79. That's going to leave a mark tomorrow.

They are going to put that poor mom on a continuous loop for the next week. Between her saying she's wrong, she's absolutely wrong - with NO compassion (there's a right way and a wrong way to say something to someone who lost their child). Followed by no American lives were lost. FFS she's a political nightmare.

[Wilms]

2. How many Libyans?

[Ed Suspicious]

82. She is never happier than when she's with a war criminal, seemingly.

[sus453]

108. that's right - kn . . .

r

[Nyan]

111. Their lives don't matter to the neocons.

That's why neocons are the most despicable species.

[Luminous Animal]

119. There's that pesky American Exceptionalism rearing its ugly head again.

[bunnies]

3. Omg. She didn't do that. Did she?

I can see the ads already.

[H2O Man]

36. Seriously.

[Lizzie Poppet]

53. OH. EM. GEE. The right will flip its collective shit.

That could be a game-changer of a remark...

[Kittycat]

84. I just searched twitter, Clinton Libya

GOP popped right up. They've already got it flying out the door. No, she's not a natural politician. She's a natural gaffe machine. We would be lucky to make it past august with her.

[restorefreedom]

69. if she manages to eek out the nom,

which is becoming increasingly unlikely, the ads in the ge will write themselves. can we imagine what trump will do with this?

[amborin]

4. the Ambassador and several other U.S. embassy personnel & untold thousands of Libyans!

[farleftlib]

7. Oh man!

She is without a doubt a sociopath. Dear Lord the things that come out of her mouth.

[KPN]

50. It is hard to believe. Even harder to believe

So many Dems are actually okay with it. The lady is about nothing but being President!

[840high]

67. Unbelievable.

[roguevalley]

147. count the ten Libyans who died trying to protect

Him, they loved him so much

[reddread]

6. lost her chance at the Oval Office with stunts like Libya

I am flabbergasted that she has been called out for Honduras.
So much dirt. So much blood.

on her.

[EndElectoral]

31. Guess this is what you call foreign policy 'experience"

[reddread]

32. I call it criminal malfeasance

I think that is what she is referring to, though.

[stillwaiting]

8. This attitude sucks and is why many throughout the world don't like us.

It's very off-putting to disregard the innocent Libyans that have been impacted by our actions.

In fact, I have little doubt that it helps terrorists immensely in their recruiting.

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. I hate to point this out

but they don't vote

I know, it angers people abroad, The gaffe though, well see bellow.

[stillwaiting]

11. Yeah. I know. It can be so damn depressing sometimes though.

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. I know

[polly7]

39. IS drew more recruits from Libya than anywhere else after that atrocity. nt.

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. Well, I hate to say this but she might have lost the GE

with that statement.



I know Democrats will forgive such gaffes... but that add writes itself.

[Punkingal]

13. With the relatives of those killed in Benghazi as the stars.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. Yup

[NWCorona]

33. I can only imagine the rage when the families heard Hillary

Say that tonight.

[840high]

68. Imagine if they were watching this.

[Gene Debs]

97. What makes you so sure she'll make it to the GE?

[nadinbrzezinski]

99. I did not say what will happen

just that if she makes it to the GE, that add writes itself.

[Gene Debs]

101. Well, she's gotta get there before she can lose it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

126. Yes, but as a poltical observer, not a partisan

I can see that add...

[Nyan]

112. I'm afraid you're right.

The ads write themselves, indeed.

[AtomicKitten]

12. Wow. She's swerving now to step in it. Proceed, Secretary.

Last edited Tue Mar 15, 2016, 03:34 PM - Edit history (1)

[RunInCircles]

14. Tone Deaf at the very least after you bomb is when the instability occurs every time

She simply doesn't connect the dots from military force to what happens after.

[brooklynite]

17. Not what she meant, but feel free to keep up your outrage.

She was referring to the period of our military involvement, which occurred NOT because of neo-con strategies, but because of Libyan democracy protests resulting from the Arab Spring (how quickly people forget how much support there was here for the Egyptian revolution):

After the Arab Spring movements overturned the rulers of Tunisia and Egypt, Libya experienced a full-scale revolt beginning on 17 February 2011. By 20 February, the unrest had spread to Tripoli. On 27 February 2011, the National Transitional Council was established to administer the areas of Libya under rebel control. On 10 March 2011, France became the first state to officially recognise the council as the legitimate representative of the Libyan people.

Pro-Gaddafi forces were able to respond militarily to rebel pushes in Western Libya and launched a counterattack along the coast toward Benghazi, the de facto centre of the uprising. The town of Zawiya, 48 kilometres (30 mi) from Tripoli, was bombarded by air force planes and army tanks and seized by Jamahiriya troops, "exercising a level of brutality not yet seen in the conflict."

Organizations of the United Nations, including United Nations Secretary General Ban Ki-moon[73] and the United Nations Human Rights Council, condemned the crackdown as violating international law, with the latter body expelling Libya outright in an unprecedented action urged by Libya's own delegation to the UN.

On 17 March 2011 the UN Security Council passed Resolution 1973, with a 10–0 vote and five abstentions including Russia, China and Germany. The resolution sanctioned the establishment of a no-fly zone and the use of "all means necessary" to protect civilians within Libya. On 19 March, the first act of NATO allies to secure the no-fly zone by destroying Libyan air defences began when French military jets entered Libyan airspace on a reconnaissance mission heralding attacks on enemy targets.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libya#2011_Civil_War

Benghazi happened a year later, after the Libyans held their first free elections in decades.

Now, if you want to assert an isolationist policy; that we'll never step in to protect those being oppressed or murdered by their Government, good for you; I think you'll end up being disappointed by President Sanders.

[RunInCircles]

21. Again can't connect the dots between military force and what happens after

It is easy to bomb but chaos always results. You can not separate the the actions from the results

[brooklynite]

23. Dear Civilians: your deaths are very important to us, but we can't be sure what'll happen if we help

[Fawke Em]

104. Help?

[Hydra]

114. Ya, I just felt my jaw drop to the floor

...This is our party speaking??

[malletgirl02]

117. Actually I not surprised

I'm sure if you go back to when the Libya intervention was happening I'm pretty sure you would like many of the supporters of that intervention are current Clinton supporters.

[Hydra]

120. I'm sure

I took a long break from DU while that sort of cheerleading was going on. What stuns me is that this is after the fact and we all see the results...and we still have neocons in our party saying we're saving the world.

[morningfog]

43. I look forward to being disappointed by President Sanders.

Thank you. Nice ring to it.

[roguevalley]

148. you won't be. he doesn't bomb children to steal oil and $

[KPN]

56. Thank you so much for explaining how

what she pushed for and got had nothing to do with what happened as a result. We all feel so much better about her now. ...

[Ruby the Liberal]

57. This is going to haunt her

She could have been talking about our presence in WWII for all that matters. The American people are going to hear "no one died in Benghazi" on a freaking loop.

[Lizzie Poppet]

58. You don't get it. It's not that you can't make a case for the statement being true.

But that won't stop the right from making an enormous deal out of it. It's on VIDEO, for fuck's sake...and you can bet the farm that little eight-word soundbite will be superimposed over Benghazi footage from now until November (or, preferably, July). Yes, that's on the GOP for misrepresentation...but also on Clinton for handing them ammunition on a silver platter.

Hillary Clinton for the last two or three weeks: Ready...Fire...Aim...

[Ruby the Liberal]

61. Which fits on a bumper sticker?

Thats what will get traction out of this. A multi paragraph nuanced explanation that requires a detailed timeline to lay out, or "Hillary said no one died in Benghazi"

[deathrind]

90. 👆 This.

The West Wing episode "Game On" was spot on about ten word answers...

"Sound familiar? It should if you have ever seen the season 4 episode “Game On” in which President Barltet Debates Governor Ritchie, the Republican presidential candidate. Leading up to the debate, the President’s staff have been trying to come up with a “ten word” answers – basically short little sound bites that the public can latch onto as opposed to the honest, more complex answer."

Then the following happens during the debate:

MODERATOR: Governor Ritchie, many economists have stated that the tax cut, which is centrepiece of your economic agenda, could actually harm the economy. Is now really the time to cut taxes?

RITCHIE: You bet it is. We need to cut taxes for one reason– the American people know how to spend their money better than the federal government does.

BARTLET: There it is….That’s the ten-word answer my staff’s been looking for for two weeks. There it is. Ten-word answers can kill you in political campaigns. They’re the tip of the sword. Here’s my question: What are the next ten words of your answer? Your taxes are too high? So are mine. Give me the next ten words. How are we going to do it? Give me ten after that, I’ll drop out of the race right now. Every once in a while… every once in a while, there’s a day with an absolute right and an absolute wrong, but those days almost always include body counts. Other than that, there aren’t very many unnuanced moments
in leading a country that’s way too big for ten words. I’m the President of the United
States, not the President of the people who agree with me. And by the way, if the left
has a problem with that, they should vote for somebody else."

I miss that show...😞

[Lizzie Poppet]

93. Exactly.

The Trump voter demographic is going to be breaking out the pitchforks and torches.

[AtheistCrusader]

100. FOR THE FIRST YEAR

I'd laugh but the qualifier would get more laughter than that incident deserves. That's the kind of callous dismissiveness and childish sound-bite bullshit that Trump does. You can't out-Trump Trump. You have to be the adult in the room.

[amborin]

60. your statements are totally in contrast to the facts, as reported by the NY Times, the BBC, etc....

[earthside]

63. A very impolitic thing to say ...

... and rather self-unaware, id est from the person who also said, "What difference, at this point, does it make?"

One thing is for sure, the Repuglicans will make hay out of this gaffe from now until she leaves the race.

It is a gift to the Repuglicans.

The stress of the campaign may be more than she can handle.

She seems to be getting more gaffe prone as everyday goes by.

[Bad Thoughts]

64. According to Clinton, "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!"

Sorry, but that is a ridiculous distinction that was easily discredited by Iraq. Security must still be secured after large scale fighting

[Depaysement]

70. Five years later

Oil production is 1/4 of what it was, collapsing the country's GDP.

Libyans lack security.

According to the UN, a half million people are displaced.

Islamist organizations terrorize the country.

Tribalism and corruption have thrived while the financial system has failed.

Hillary's "democracy" war has been a neo-con disaster from start to finish.

[brooklynite]

71. Much better to have been killed or enslaved by Gadhaffi...

[Depaysement]

74. We're not voting for Qaddafi

It's so much better to be killed by Hillary.

[brooklynite]

83. No, we're voting to Clinton or Sanders...neither of which will be an isolationist.

"I supported the use of force to stop the ethnic cleansing in the Balkans"--Bernie Sanders
https://berniesanders.com/issues/war-and-peace/

Care to explain the difference?

[Skittles]

92. the difference is, Bernie is PERFECT

GET WITH THE PROGRAM, brooklynite !!!

[malletgirl02]

105. And Hillary can do no wrong!!!

See I can do that too.

[Skittles]

124. SO ORIGINAL!!

YET ANOTHER SYMPTOM!!!

WHY do you assume I am a Hillary supporter???

[malletgirl02]

128. You started it with the sarcasm

so I responded in kind. Also what you mean my Yet another symptom? Are you implying there is something wrong with me?

[Skittles]

130. you started it!

what are you, five years old?

DONE HERE

[Depaysement]

132. There was ethnic cleansing in Libya?

Come on now. You're grasping for straws.

[Depaysement]

140. Well done

Seems someone forgot to mention the ethnic cleansing occurred after the bombing.

Way to go Hillary. Way to go.

[polly7]

141. Thanks, Depaysement. Yes, the cleansing occurred AFTER the lying 'no-fly-zone' NATO

R2P sham.

Qaddafi was using Libya's oil money to try to gain independence for all of Africa. He was certainly not committing genocide. It's strange how HRW reporting of the genocide and atrocities committed against black Libyans and Qadaffi loyalists never really enters the conversation regarding the suffering caused by NATO's regime-change - no-one addressed it then, no-one seems to care much about it now (in political conversations in the media).

[thesquanderer]

137. re: "Care to explain the difference?"

The difference is that both Clinton AND Sanders supported the use of force in the Balkans, whereas only Clinton supported use of force in Libya.

Neither of them is an isolationist, nor a pacifist. But Hillary is quicker to endorse use of force than Bernie is... or as she put it, in a situation with no clear right answer, she would rather be "caught trying," as discussed in the recent NYT piece on Libya:

Mrs. Clinton repeatedly speaks of wanting to be “caught trying.” In other words, she would rather be criticized for what she has done than for having done nothing at all.

“She’s very careful and reflective,” Ms. Slaughter {Hilary's former director of policy planning at the State Department} said. “But when the choice is between action and inaction, and you’ve got risks in either direction, which you often do, she’d rather be caught trying.”

In other words, in a close call, her philosophy is to err on the side of interventionism. In a nutshell, that's the difference.

As a result, yes, you can find foreign interventions they both supported, and you can also find ones that Hillary supported that Bernie did not, but AFAIK you won't find any that Bernie supported that Hillary did not, in any circumstance where both publicly stated their positions. No one is claiming that Bernie is a dove, but Hillary is the more hawkish of the two, just as they disagree today about a Syrian no-fly zone (which--despite Hillary's attempt to stick to the Obama legacy like superglue--is an area where Bernie agrees with Obama, and Hillary does not).

Bernie and Hillary are simply not the same in this respect, there is indeed a difference.

[Motown_Johnny]

73. If she didn't specify a time frame, your post is dishonest.

I didn't watch the town hall and don't know the exact quote.

So I will just say this.


If she specifically said anything about losing lives during the military phase then she was right.

If she didn't, she was wrong.

That sound bite will come back to haunt us if she is the nominee. We really need her to not be.

[brooklynite]

75. Sort of like: "In Vermont, everybody knows that I am a socialist"

I'll take my chances.

[Motown_Johnny]

81. Bernie has been winning elections as a Democratic Socialist for 30 years.

Hillary as won 2 elections in her entire life. Both her carpetbagged Senate seat in a blue state with a high population and huge media markets to air ads.

Most any well funded (D) could have won the races Hillary has won.

You are taking one hell of a big chance on someone who is just as likely to claim having run from Snipers in Bosnia as she is of winning an office for the first time.

[brooklynite]

85. I'm also taking a hell of a chance on a candidate who hasn't been vetted by the Republicans at all.

[Motown_Johnny]

86. Hillary's crew has been looking for dirt and you know it.

Either her campaign is incompetent or Bernie has already been vetted.

Take your pick.

[brooklynite]

88. I'm talking about by the Republicans...

Clinton is ahead of Trump despite all her "baggage". Sanders (who I also suspect won't be able to raise $1 B for the GE) hasn't been raked over the coals by the GOP.

[Motown_Johnny]

94. Clinton and Trump are within the Margin of Error for most polls.

Sanders has nothing to be raked over the coals by the GOP with. That is what happens when you are an honest politician.

Of course they will attack him, but attacks hurt both sides. His favorable ratings are way above Trump's. If/when they go that route Bernie can take the hit better than Trump can.

People will still turn out to vote against Trump on our side but the Clinton haters won't be as motivated to turn out for Trump. Bernie is the better bet and most every polls shows it.

As for not raising money, don't bet on it. He is raising lots more than Obama did in '08. He is out raising Hillary and she has the whole Democratic machine behind her. Combine traditional (D) fund raising with Bernie's online small donations and his campaign could be a financial juggernaut.

Hillary, on the other hand, won't get those small donations. As someone who has donated to Bernie 4 times so far, you can trust me on that. I will continue to help Bernie as long as he is in the race. Not Hillary. Not one dime. I will turn out and vote for whoever the Democratic nominee is, but that is all I can do for the lesser evil.

[thesquanderer]

138. Bernie will be well-funded for the general.

While he has no superPAC personally, unlike in the primary, he we have the full financial strength of the Democratic Party behind him, superPACs and all.

[noiretextatique]

143. Hillary hasn't been vetted by Democrats

It's impossible to discuss her record without accusations of bashing. She is the one with a shitload of skeletons.

[AtheistCrusader]

98. Oh, so your involvement is over when you're done destabilizing a nation? It's just over, like that?

Good to know.

Sarcasm aside, technically what she MEANT is correct, but what the right wing is going to do with her words is spectacularly different.

Sanders is not above saying things that can be taken out of context, but for goodness sake, don't hang the albatross around your own neck if you can avoid it.

[Kittycat]

103. Well then, "Mission Accomplished", right? eom.

[Firebrand Gary]

107. +1

[Jarqui]

136. The subject Chris Matthews was asking her about was regime change

The issue of regime change is not whether the US military can overthrow a government with minimal casualties at the outset. I think the whole world would concede in most cases they can do that as well as anyone.

Some of the issues of regime change as Bernie articulated in his Iraq War speech were:
http://www.sanders.senate.gov/video/flashback-rep-bernie-sanders-opposes-iraq-war

As a caring Nation, we should do everything we can to prevent the horrible suffering that a war will cause. War must be the last recourse in international relations, not the first.

Second, I am deeply concerned about the precedent that a unilateral invasion of Iraq could establish in terms of international law and the role of the United Nations.
...
An attack on Iraq at this time would seriously jeopardize, if not destroy, the global counterterrorist campaign we have undertaken
...
Fifth, I am concerned about the problems of so-called unintended consequences. Who will govern Iraq when Saddam Hussein is removed and what role will the U.S. play in ensuing a civil war that could develop in that country? Will moderate governments in the region who have large Islamic fundamentalist populations be overthrown and replaced by extremists?

In Bernie's speech (I left out of my quote), he did ask for the Bush Admin to quantify what the expected casualities would be - civilian and military and about the financial costs.

What happened in Libya was Clinton made a poor judgement on the ability of the opposition to govern:
Again, Bernie previously said: "I am concerned about the problems of so-called unintended consequences. Who will govern Iraq Libya when Saddam Hussein Muammar Gaddafi is removed and what role will the U.S. play in ensuing a civil war that could develop in that country?"
As usual, Bernie is right with his concerns about regime change. And contrary to Hillary, that is some of the wise consideration he routinely gives when regime change comes up.

One of the consequences of regime change in Libya was the instability and lawlessness that spread throughout the country and ultimately contributed to Benghazi. And ISIL moved into the political vacuum and started chopping heads off.

As for Clinton's BS about Sanders voting for Libya regime change before, her deceit is breathtaking: Sanders voted for a non binding resolution calling for Gaddafi to resign and for a peaceful, democratic transition. There was no calling for intervention by the US. There was no calling for violence by the US against a middle east country - a hated foreign country forcing regime change. There was no calling for a big government vacuum - they were just suggesting one guy resign in a middle eastern country. Bernie was not voting for regime change by force. If Hillary thinks it is the same thing and cannot see the difference, she's obviously too stupid to be president.

And the remark about no American dying in Libya, is another reminder of how short sighted her vision of events and the things they cause is. A lot of people died along with those in Benghazi because of the regime change Hillary brought on. Civilian deaths may not matter much to her but they sure matter to the folks where it happens.

The right wing media is all over that 'no American dying in Libya' line already. Bush and Cheney didn't understand it and evidently, neither does Hillary.

“The truth is it is relatively easy for a powerful nation like America to overthrow a dictator,” he (Bernie) said. “But it is very hard to predict the unintended consequences and the turmoil and the instability that follows after you overthrow that dictator… I’m not quite the fan of regime change that she is.”

[Dem2]

18. Rated: True

Nevertheless, even the higher number supports Biden’s deeper point. The military intervention in Libya -- in addition to not resulting in a single American military fatality -- cost the country less than 1 percent what the Pentagon has spent in Iraq and Afghanistan. We rate Biden’s claim Mostly True.

[liberal_at_heart]

28. so it's justified by prefacing it with the word "military". That is dismissive and disrespectful to

the relatives of those who did die.

[Dem2]

30. Don't put words in my mouth

This is how conflicts are measured.

Period.

[liberal_at_heart]

35. "This is how conflicts are measured"? Wow. I'm speechless and deeply saddened by what you just said.

I honestly don't know how to respond to such a callous statement.

[H2O Man]

40. Yeah.

The families of the dead probably do not agree with that measure. It's stunning that anyone would.

[Dem2]

42. Toss a few more logical fallacies at me designed to tear at the heart strings

Attacks on Embassies occur all the time, BENGHAZI!! was tragic, but NOT Hillary's fault.

Jesus, the right has been pedaling BENGHAZI!! daily for years on Reddit - and downvoted to hell for it.

Did not expect this gutter politics on a Democratic site.

[liberal_at_heart]

45. I have a marine brother in Nashville who carries a gun and talks trash about Obama and

Clinton all the time especially about Benghazi. I pay very little attention to what she says, but I do disagree with Hillary's hawkish stance on regime change and military intervention. I don't have to be a right wing Benghazi conspiracy theorist to be concerned about her view on military action. It would be nice if we could back off some of the military interventions around the world. Save a few trillion dollars and spend some of that money on SS, education, and healthcare. The reason we can't afford social services anymore is because of the trillions of dollars we spend on war. No to mention the fact that Democrats are deathly afraid to talk about raising taxes and then have to cave to cuts to social services because we don't have enough tax revenue to pay for them.

[Dem2]

48. I agree

I'm against all the ridiculous interventions the US has participated in over the years and the trillions of wasted dollars. Indeed I spoke out repeatedly "why the f*** are we building infrastructure in Iraq, but not here where we desperately need it??

I will admit I made a bit of an exception for Libya as it really wasn't like another Iraq. I grew up seeing Qaddafi as a murdering despotic dictator, perhaps I was more susceptible to thinking this was a good progression of the Arab Spring.

[noiretextatique]

144. Libya is another Iraq

And it is clear that the goals in Libya are the same as in Iraq. I just saw a video of Hillary gushing about the consumer and business markets in Iraq, in 2011.

[Dem2]

145. Not buying it

1% of cost to USA vs. Iraq and not sure how it would have turned out without US input. You can't know either.

[Duppers]

19. She's playing to know-nothings?

Let her keep talking.

Deeper and deeper.


Btw, just heard MSNBC Chris Hayes say Bernie can't get enough delegates to win. Grrrr.

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

110. Hayes is another sellout, like Rachel. Very sad what happened at MSNBC.

[Else You Are Mad]

20. If Hillary isn't elected president...

... maybe she can take some time off to write some historical fiction novels.

[MisterP]

22. RCP was impressed, but for the wrong reasons

Last edited Mon Mar 14, 2016, 10:13 PM - Edit history (1)

http://www.politicususa.com/2016/03/14/hillary-clinton-delivers-commander-chief-level-performance-msnbc-town-hall.html
Nat Review link to

the danger isn't that she'll draw Benghazi attacks from the likes of NRO, but that she'll prove them RIGHT, discrediting the Dems altogether
she's echoing Obama and Biden's victory speeches, too http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/oct/20/obama-hails-death-gaddafi
she ultimately believes that Libya was a brilliant idea, and that the consequences aren't really as bad as we think and aren't our fault anyway

[TM99]

27. I really hate neocons.

I especially hate them when they pretend to be liberals.

[Major Hogwash]

77. IOW, she's not responsible for the mess she helped to create in the Middle East.

Because they didn't stop killing each other in the ME after she stepped down as SOS, the way she had it penciled it in on her calendar just in time so that she could then run for President.

Talk about unintended consequences!!!!

[Ruby the Liberal]

24. Do you have a link (or video?)

I'd like to see this in context. Hells bells, the woman withstood 11 hours of questioning over this not a few months ago. Was she talking about our response to the Embassy attack? (Not that thats is an excuse. See: Obama, Barack - "You didn't build that" remark that got twisted sideways and run on a loop 24/7 for months on end...)

[H2O Man]

41. See post #22

[Ruby the Liberal]

47. Thank you

[amborin]

62. she prevaricated during the hearings, over and over

[EndElectoral]

25. I guess she misspoke

[Jarqui]

26. They say things happen in threes (not that I'm superstitious)

First the Nancy Reagan LGBT gaffe
Bernie Sanders questions Clinton's praise for Nancy Reagan's Aids record

Then this:"I don't know where he (Sanders) was when I was trying to get health care in '93 and '94)
http://uproxx.com/news/clinton-sanders-right-behind-her-1990s/



And now :"Libya was a different kind of calculation and we didn't lose a single person. We didn't have a problem in supporting our European and Arab allies in working with Nato."
http://www.msnbc.com/hardball/watch/clinton-defends-her-iraq-war-vote-644430403940

That is a steaming hot pile of poop to step in.

In the days leading up to a big vote ...

[pkdu]

29. Nice Try. FAIL: See post #17 for the correct answer. nt

[Mudcat]

34. but Wikipedia says...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_fatalities_and_injuries_of_the_2012_Benghazi_attack

[TheCowsCameHome]

37. That won't play well during campaign season.

[Major Hogwash]

80. Hell, she's not even going to make it to the Final Four.

She may as well close up shop now, after this huge gaffe.

She is now the "gaffe-a-day" candidate.

[Vattel]

38. To be fair, Ambassador Stevens was killed after our war effort in Libya.

But given that so many Libyans died as a consequence of the war, bragging about American lives not being lost, well, it makes her sound like a psychopath. I know she is not one, but I do believe that she, like Kissinger, doesn't have nearly enough concern for the innocent lives that have needlessly been lost because of US militarism.

[DAMANgoldberg]

46. That is true...

but she really shouldn't have gone there, because of Benghazi, and the general malaise involving the entire Middle East.

[Ruby the Liberal]

51. Most Americans couldn't find Libya on a map

But boy howdy if they can't spell Benghazi.

This was a massive fail.

[Merryland]

87. indeed.

[winter is coming]

44. Is she saying she kept Libya safe?? n/t

[Kip Humphrey]

49. With her recent (last 30 days roughly) gaffes, I getting concerned she has suffered one or more

micro or mini strokes which took out various specific memories or memory fragments. This suggests neuron death in a memory area of the brain only since no motor functions seem impaired in any way. That said, I'm no brain surgeon. She has had a blood clot concern starting with her fall. I hope her campaign gets her checked out. I just want to make sure she doesn't suffer because of politically motivated people surrounding her refusing to have her checked out.

Please take no offense; this is a concern for me for Hillary's health and well-being.

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

115. The whole Nancy Reagan thing made me thing somethings wrong

She was describing Nancy Reagan's work for Alzheimer's research, but "AIDS" was being talked about. It's like she merged the two together in her mind. It was kind of odd.

[Kip Humphrey]

116. She's had several memorable memory lapses, so, with her M.H., it is worrisome.

[loyalsister]

122. That speculation lets her off the hook

She "we came, we saw, he died" if you doubt that she can be as callous about death as to have dismissed or forgotten about what happened to Americans Beghazi or Libyan citizens who were killed by our airstrikes.

[Kip Humphrey]

123. yes but I think you make my point to at least be concerned at this point.

[Gore1FL]

52. I suspect she was just talking about the invasion, but there are a few things to keep in mind.

1> It was ill-phrased and certainly will be used against her.
2> There are more things to consider than "American Lives." Leaving it at that was a poor choice.
3> This is an example of her walking into damaging things. It reminds me of a Geico ad: She's a Clinton. it's what she does.

[CentralMass]

55. Does she believe the words coming out of her own mouth ?

[BeanMusical]

65. She really can't help it.

[elehhhhna]

66. Say what?

[Motown_Johnny]

72. The implosion continues.

Any pressure at all and she falls apart.


This is almost as bad as Snipergate. Worse than the Reagan crap that was just a few days earlier and that was worse than the auto bailout crap that was just a few days earlier still.

We can't risk having her as our nominee. Sanders is playing softball. If she can't handle this pressure I don't see how she can keep it together for the GE.

We really need to nominate someone else.

[Cheese Sandwich]

76. I wonder if Republicans would use this against her in campaign ads.

[ibegurpard]

129. I'm thinking "Dukakis in a tank" level ads

This is going to be painful if we're saddled with her.

[jalan48]

89. Sometimes I wonder about Hillary's memory. She seems to forget or 'misspeak' a lot.

[Waiting For Everyman]

95. Another day, another fail.

Hillary is so competent, she defeats herself without any Repub help at all.

What a candidate! I am so danged depressed, I mean impressed.

Go ahead, Hillary, take on the Republicans!

[Kalidurga]

96. No way I want to see those ads in the GE

They are looking for someone to voice the ads as I type.

[GeorgiaPeanuts]

102. The ads practically write themselves

Replaying of her saying nobody died in Libya... overlaid with footage of Benghazi, and its aftermath. Followed by teary-eyed family members tearing her to shreds... Maybe a cut to footage of her laughing to finish it out.

[HassleCat]

106. Alzheimer's

She meant to say nobody got Alzheimer's.

[FairWinds]

109. NONE of you get the real outrageous point . .

which is that when HRC says "we" she does not mean Libyans.

That is because, like many of you, she does not consider them to
be actual human beings.

It is that kind of thinking, that non-USAeans are pretty much
disposable, that gets us hated all over the planet.

And rightly so.

And note: Madeline Albright's comment that the deaths of Iraqi children were "worth it"
is not as bad as HRC's very awkward moment of honesty, in which the lives of Libyans
do not matter at all.

Shame on you all. You really need to do some soul searching.

Veterans For Peace

[Hydra]

118. Factually, you are correct

And that's what I saw first. But frankly, the larger nation does not seem to care how many people our wars kill that aren't our own.

Crazy, isn't it?

[FairWinds]

121. for sure, Ms./Mr. Hydra . .

and that attitude will more than likely be the death of us all.

I've had a great run, myself. But I was sort of hoping that we could
pass on a half-way decent planet to our kids and grand kids.

[Hydra]

125. I'm thinking climate change has us already

But I'm also seeing a massive sea change happening. Maybe we can get a nation of people who care about the rest of the world and the environment. It's something to hope for.

[ladyVet]

133. Um, you're talking to the wrong people.

That is because, like many of you, she does not consider them to
be actual human beings.

At least so far as the Bernie supporters are concerned, the Lybians are most certainly actual human beings. Our belief in this point is why we're so gobsmacked at what she said. Perhaps you skimmed those posts?

[FairWinds]

146. Dear Lady Vet -

Thanks for the correction.

It is true that I did not read all the posts, but many of the ones I DID read seemed to think the only thing wrong with HRC's remark is that she was wrong about the number of USAeans killed, and that it would make a powerful ad against her.

But you are correct in asserting that many, many Bernie backers are "internationalists" - for want of a better term (meaning that all people and countries are of equal worth).

Sometimes I get going on that hyperbole thing . . blush !!

Have you joined Vets For Peace yet? We have these sorts of illuminating discussions all the time!!

And the VFP Golden Rule Project is just about the best thing I have ever done !!

BTW, our central purpose is to abolish war as an instrument of US national policy. Sure, a little ambitious.

[cpwm17]

135. That's what I thought.

She's an enthusiastic member of the brown-lives-don't-matter movement.

[TwilightGardener]

113. Oooof.

[NowSam]

127. Wow. I'm convinced:

She's trying to lose.

[Bassomar]

131. I wonder what tomorrow's Hillary Hashtag will be n/t

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

134. #NOBODYDIED

[Warren Stupidity]

142. Well after the bloody coup against Qaddafi.

Technically our aggression against Libya was accomplished without losing any anerican lives. !BENGHAZI! aside, the problem is not that Clinton was wrong on the facts or misspoke, the problem is that she appears to consider this a neocon regime change success, Iraq done right, and not a massive cluster fuck, which despite our having no casualties has resulted in massive deaths across Libya and left Libya a failed state, an IS sanctuary, a place far worse than it was before we fucked it over.

She is a hardline neocon.