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Punkingal

(9,522 posts)
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 11:28 AM Mar 2016

I hope Debbie Wasserman-Schultz is watching CNN.

All they can talk about is Democrats crossing over in Ohio. This is her fault and the fault of all Third Way democrats who have destroyed our party and what it stands for. Democrats are leaving in droves. I wonder if she is fiddling while Rome burns?

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I hope Debbie Wasserman-Schultz is watching CNN. (Original Post) Punkingal Mar 2016 OP
Incompetent is a *kind* way Aerows Mar 2016 #1
Debbie is a former Republican FreakinDJ Mar 2016 #2
She does that for sure. Punkingal Mar 2016 #3
DWS is coming on MSNBC NOW w Thomas Roberts... appalachiablue Mar 2016 #55
Guess that's why she threw the 2012 election to Romney... brooklynite Mar 2016 #36
Didn't she fail in 2008 as part of Hillary's campaign to get her nominated? eom GeorgiaPeanuts Mar 2016 #37
What abotu the Senate Ferd Berfel Mar 2016 #42
I know from following one candidate that the DNC kept changing the rules hollysmom Mar 2016 #60
Absolutly Ferd Berfel Mar 2016 #62
If that's going to be the standard for deciding whether she sucks... JackRiddler Mar 2016 #44
Actually, I'm using the standard of what her job is...which is not to "get people elected" brooklynite Mar 2016 #48
Agreed, it is up to candidates to get elected. CalvinballPro Mar 2016 #51
well that comment is based on misinformation as you can see Sande has many female supporters and the hollysmom Mar 2016 #68
This woman says Bjornsdotter Mar 2016 #89
How many Dem seats have we lost? She is super great at getting Dems elected, eh? n/t Jefferson23 Mar 2016 #59
I'm trying to remember, do we ever vote on anything other than President? LondonReign2 Mar 2016 #64
Former? Or Judas Goat? Ferd Berfel Mar 2016 #41
DWS is a disaster for the Democratic Party... hard to tell which side she's on sometimes. InAbLuEsTaTe Mar 2016 #56
well, for sure, the side of payday lenders. hollysmom Mar 2016 #61
exactly, That wasn't so hard was it. Ferd Berfel Mar 2016 #93
This is on Obama. He appointed her and keeps her. musiclawyer Mar 2016 #13
I disagree. Aerows Mar 2016 #14
These people are neither stupid fredamae Mar 2016 #4
That's a frightening thought, tabasco Mar 2016 #8
I honestly don't know fredamae Mar 2016 #12
fredamae, excellent !!! erlewyne Mar 2016 #50
Thanks for your Bernie vote! JDPriestly Mar 2016 #73
I don't understand Aerows Mar 2016 #18
This is disaster... appalachiablue Mar 2016 #53
She's still in that 840high Mar 2016 #57
that's sure what it looks like. n/t Merryland Mar 2016 #78
1) Piss off all the liberals. 2) Welcome republican refugees escaping the crazies. arcane1 Mar 2016 #77
Many are crossing over to vote against Trump Renew Deal Mar 2016 #5
Maybe they are voting for Kasich? JDPriestly Mar 2016 #40
Yes, for Kasich against Trump Renew Deal Mar 2016 #45
No fan of DWS. However.... Zambero Mar 2016 #6
You sure like to blame her with no proof. Whatever. Nothing new. riversedge Mar 2016 #7
Do you realize how many Democratic seats we have lost Aerows Mar 2016 #16
Individual candidates have to get themselves elected by campaigning. The DNC donates resources. CalvinballPro Mar 2016 #52
odd you should say that, what is the purpose of the DNC if not to aid in elections either by hollysmom Mar 2016 #67
Funding and promotional support is RESOURCES. The candidate is still responsible for the campaign. CalvinballPro Mar 2016 #69
My comment was that DWS was denying resources to the more progressive members and hollysmom Mar 2016 #72
Vermont Democrats don't seem to mind. He won the primary with 86% of the vote there. JDPriestly Mar 2016 #74
It is not the DNC Chair's job to "inspire" anyone. It's their job to coordinate the Democratic Party CalvinballPro Mar 2016 #75
That was true in the past, but today, the DNC Chair's job is also to represent the Party in the medi JDPriestly Mar 2016 #81
Howard "The Scream" Dean? Thank you for the laughs, have a nice day. CalvinballPro Mar 2016 #82
Actually, my Representative in the House, Xavier Becerra, would make a great DNC chair. JDPriestly Mar 2016 #86
I don't disagree with you. And I'm not defending DWS per se, just criticizing the crazy expectations CalvinballPro Mar 2016 #87
Somehow, the DWSs and Rahm Emmanuels who have taken on leadership roles in the Party in JDPriestly Mar 2016 #92
It is always a delight Aerows Mar 2016 #76
I could care less what you think of my comment count. CalvinballPro Mar 2016 #80
Your candidate likes to praise monsters with no proof they are the heroes she claims. Bluenorthwest Mar 2016 #63
I had a sense that there was really not much energy and organization behind the 2014 campaign JDPriestly Mar 2016 #71
Damn I am missing the entertrainment then nadinbrzezinski Mar 2016 #9
Clinton supporters crossing over for Kasich. bunnies Mar 2016 #10
No, they were crossing to Trump according to the reports. Punkingal Mar 2016 #15
Really? Wow. bunnies Mar 2016 #22
I would not be surprised if it was a portion of both splits, Trump & Kasisch Kittycat Mar 2016 #28
I agree with you. bunnies Mar 2016 #29
Fall in line or stop them in to the ground. Kittycat Mar 2016 #31
That and more blaming of the left. bunnies Mar 2016 #33
Until all that's left is the Third Way. Which again - why don't they just go make their own party Kittycat Mar 2016 #38
Somethings got to give, thats for damn sure. bunnies Mar 2016 #54
Clinton supporters are crossing over to vote against Trump BainsBane Mar 2016 #27
Right, they are supporting Trump because there is no leftist alternative? BainsBane Mar 2016 #11
The attacks make less and less sense as time goes on. stevenleser Mar 2016 #17
I can't follow the logic BainsBane Mar 2016 #25
It is not an argument against Bernie it is a view into the level that some Jefferson23 Mar 2016 #65
The fault presumably is on DWS BainsBane Mar 2016 #66
She should have been replaced, her failures are well documented. Jefferson23 Mar 2016 #70
I haven't followed the Republican race BainsBane Mar 2016 #79
I watch them very closely, they are a train wreck of enormous proportion. Jefferson23 Mar 2016 #83
This mantra about corporations is getting old BainsBane Mar 2016 #88
That is who they are beholding to (corporations) while they ignore their base and it has come back Jefferson23 Mar 2016 #91
You added your commentary about DWS after I replied..she is in fact a representative Jefferson23 Mar 2016 #85
More like "meddling" rather than "fiddling". Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2016 #19
There could have been a full field of candidates rathr than "Her Turn" Bad Thoughts Mar 2016 #20
Thank you! Punkingal Mar 2016 #21
There were a field of candidates BainsBane Mar 2016 #24
I hope she's watching it, too. november3rd Mar 2016 #23
Bernie is an exciting candidate who should be getting people to the polls Dem2 Mar 2016 #26
This smells of disinformation intended to explain a Hillary loss. grasswire Mar 2016 #30
Brock knows who butters his bread... Yurovsky Mar 2016 #32
David will butter his bread in whatever camp saidsimplesimon Mar 2016 #43
The least she could have done is voter registration drives on college campuses Oilwellian Mar 2016 #34
I can't see Democrats who despise Third Way ever voting for Trump. But Zorra Mar 2016 #35
She has got to go! SoapBox Mar 2016 #39
I can't disagree with that sharp_stick Mar 2016 #49
I donated to him yesterday. Punkingal Mar 2016 #90
no kidding, DWS made matters worse ellennelle Mar 2016 #46
Conservative Democrats ALWAYS cross to vote GOP. Hortensis Mar 2016 #47
PAYDAY LENDING DEBBIE. Jefferson23 Mar 2016 #58
I found this interesting article... pugetres Mar 2016 #84
She is a plant. She succeeds in her mission to destroy Dem. kgnu_fan Mar 2016 #94

Punkingal

(9,522 posts)
3. She does that for sure.
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 11:41 AM
Mar 2016

She has refused to support Democrats in Florida who were running against Republican "friends" for Congress.

Ferd Berfel

(3,687 posts)
42. What abotu the Senate
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 02:16 PM
Mar 2016

and the hundreds of State offices all over the Country including Governors?

She's been an utter failure, if You want Democrats in office

hollysmom

(5,946 posts)
60. I know from following one candidate that the DNC kept changing the rules
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 02:54 PM
Mar 2016

as did the DNCC - you can get support and get included in their fundraising only if you meet certain goals, this candidate met the goals, and they raised the bar, this happened like 5 times. I give directly to specific candidates now.

Ferd Berfel

(3,687 posts)
62. Absolutly
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 03:02 PM
Mar 2016

The DNC needs to go down in flames. Maybe down the road someone can rebuild it (Bernie) but they haven't gotten any money (directly) from me in decades. Bout the time they were sold to the Koch Bros

 

JackRiddler

(24,979 posts)
44. If that's going to be the standard for deciding whether she sucks...
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 02:19 PM
Mar 2016

then everything's great. Lose seats everywhere constantly, but hey, incumbent Obama beat a wet rag, so that must be to her credit!

brooklynite

(94,598 posts)
48. Actually, I'm using the standard of what her job is...which is not to "get people elected"
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 02:24 PM
Mar 2016

She Chairs the DNC. She raises money. She works to develop State Party resources. She coordinates planning for the Convention.

 

CalvinballPro

(1,019 posts)
51. Agreed, it is up to candidates to get elected.
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 02:34 PM
Mar 2016

But once again, the BernieBros have a convenient woman to blame for everything. Watch your back, Elizabeth Warren!

hollysmom

(5,946 posts)
68. well that comment is based on misinformation as you can see Sande has many female supporters and the
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 03:32 PM
Mar 2016

person who created the phrase bernie bros admitted it was false, I think the supporters of Sanders would have no problem with Warren as that was who most originally supported. Facts have a liberal bias.

Bjornsdotter

(6,123 posts)
89. This woman says
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 04:22 PM
Mar 2016

...that DWS should get her thumb off of the scale and do her job in an impartial manner. The fact that she is woman has no bearing on this issue.

Ferd Berfel

(3,687 posts)
93. exactly, That wasn't so hard was it.
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 10:02 AM
Mar 2016

Give THAT as a base I think it's very easy to see which side she's on - all of the time

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
14. I disagree.
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 01:20 PM
Mar 2016

The anger at her incompetence is well founded. Now I realize that Obama should have canned her long ago, but she's still awful.

fredamae

(4,458 posts)
4. These people are neither stupid
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 11:41 AM
Mar 2016

nor incompetent. She has kept her job, by imo-actually Doing her Job.......basically rewarded for Losing over 900 Dem seats around the country....Isn't this more like an agenda? To rip apart the last threads of the Dem Wing of the party, at this juncture?
The "gerrymandering" of delegates, depression of competing Dem Candidates.....the Debates limits, on and on.
The optics....

fredamae

(4,458 posts)
12. I honestly don't know
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 12:29 PM
Mar 2016

of any other scenario at this point.
Having been a Dem virtually my whole long assed life...this is hard to see. It's hard to wrap my head around it, frankly -
Al From...Bill Clinton...Reagan Dems circa 1990 and Reganism changed the Dem Party.
In my opinion, of course

erlewyne

(1,115 posts)
50. fredamae, excellent !!!
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 02:31 PM
Mar 2016

Maybe we have a new party evolving. It never
crossed my mind before but for years now when
I challenge my Republican friends they always say,
the Democrats do it too! And, they were right.

I have worked with unions all my life and my fellows
would always either not vote or vote republican.

I am a democrat and I voted for Bernie this morning.

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
18. I don't understand
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 01:29 PM
Mar 2016

how anyone could justify her being in that position anymore, either.

It isn't idle griping just to gripe; Democrats have lost a ton of seats since she took over.

 

arcane1

(38,613 posts)
77. 1) Piss off all the liberals. 2) Welcome republican refugees escaping the crazies.
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 03:50 PM
Mar 2016

Now we'll have TWO corporate parties and the "fucking retards" have no place to go.

People need to realize that "The Party" is NOT on our side!!

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
40. Maybe they are voting for Kasich?
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 02:13 PM
Mar 2016

Maybe it is state loyalty.

This may bode well for Bernie. Maybe they just don't want to vote for Hillary but don't know much about Bernie.

Renew Deal

(81,861 posts)
45. Yes, for Kasich against Trump
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 02:20 PM
Mar 2016

At least that's been the vibe over the last two days. I don't know if this weekend pushed people over the line. They probably see the Dem race wrapped up which it more or less is.

Zambero

(8,964 posts)
6. No fan of DWS. However....
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 11:54 AM
Mar 2016

It appears that by a 10-7 margin that more Ohio independents are opting to cast ballots in the Democratic primary than Republican. The number of voters actually changing their party affiliation is MUCH MUCH smaller than the number of independent crossovers, and the GOP shows a slight edge. As for crossovers of registered Democrats (presumably to vote for OR against Trump?), with a clear choice between Bernie and Hillary, I don't see how this can be attributed to DWS. On the other side of the fence, all evidence points to a massive block of GOP voters cannot stomach and would not vote for Trump in the general election under any circumstances.

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
16. Do you realize how many Democratic seats we have lost
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 01:27 PM
Mar 2016

since she was installed as chair?

I was under the impression that the chair was supposed to aid in getting *more* Democrats elected, not fewer.

If that isn't her job, that's one thing. If her job is to help get more Democrats elected, though, her performance in that position has been nothing short of abysmal.

Facts are facts, numbers are numbers. It would be wildly casting blame if there was no basis for the complaints, but if you look at how our party on the whole has done since she has been leading it, there is absolutely no way you could say that she has done a good job.

 

CalvinballPro

(1,019 posts)
52. Individual candidates have to get themselves elected by campaigning. The DNC donates resources.
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 02:35 PM
Mar 2016

FFS, is this your first election or something?

hollysmom

(5,946 posts)
67. odd you should say that, what is the purpose of the DNC if not to aid in elections either by
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 03:29 PM
Mar 2016

funding or by promotional support. She is not managing the office to get he job done.
in 2014 she funneled most money to DINOs not to progressives and those DINOS lost (why vote for a fake republican when you can vote for a real one?), she openly discourages progressives.
So if you want to be the party of republican light, than support her, but if you would like to see some progressiveness again and win back the senate and congress, well, throw the bum out.
you either do your job or you don't. she is doing the pay day lenders job.

 

CalvinballPro

(1,019 posts)
69. Funding and promotional support is RESOURCES. The candidate is still responsible for the campaign.
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 03:33 PM
Mar 2016

Speaking of not doing a job, when was the last time Sanders did his?

Edit:
http://www.vocativ.com/news/291158/bernie-sanders-has-a-worse-voting-record-than-rubio-or-cruz/
Take Bernie Sanders. The Vermont senator missed 96.2 percent of roll call votes since the beginning of the year, worse than the other two senators running for president, Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio, according to voting records tracked by CSPAN.

hollysmom

(5,946 posts)
72. My comment was that DWS was denying resources to the more progressive members and
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 03:41 PM
Mar 2016

funding the quasi republican candidates which lost. i.e. funding and resources for losing candidates only. NOT DOING the JOB.,
Now if you reply to what I was posting, I will reply to other questions, Otherwise I am staying on topic and you can start another OP.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
74. Vermont Democrats don't seem to mind. He won the primary with 86% of the vote there.
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 03:43 PM
Mar 2016

Besides, thanks in part to Debbie Wasserman Schultz's poor leadership and inability to inspire candidates and voters across the country, the Republicans have a majority and it is very hard for a progressive Democrat to do anything or even get a word in edgewise.

I want to see Bernie in the White House. I'm not from Vermont, but based on the results of their primary, I'd say that Vermont voters want to see him there too.

Feel the Bern!

 

CalvinballPro

(1,019 posts)
75. It is not the DNC Chair's job to "inspire" anyone. It's their job to coordinate the Democratic Party
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 03:47 PM
Mar 2016

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
81. That was true in the past, but today, the DNC Chair's job is also to represent the Party in the medi
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 03:55 PM
Mar 2016

Again, I'm sure that DWS is a nice person. Apparently her constituents are happy with her performance in Congress.

BUT -- she is not an effective representative of the Democratic Party in the media. Howard Dean was much, much better.

Maybe it is something new that Party leaders need to consider when picking a DNC chair -- his or her media savvy and appeal.

Times change. Sometimes it's hard to change with them. That is certainly what the Democratic Party is learning right now. To have to have a challenger for the presidential nomination who served as an Independent in Congress for so many years and who is presenting an entirely new approach toward governing for voters and to have that challenger succeeding to the extent that Bernie is indicates that the Democratic Party needs a full review of its approach and its strategy as well as its platform.

Happy Days Are Here Again. If you know the history of that song, you will understand that it really is a time for a democratic revolution in the Democratic Party. We have some really, really good Democrats here in California. But some Democrats in the rest of the country are just as conservative and backward and unable to solve problems as are their Republican counterparts.

Part of the job of politicians in a democracy is to present new ideas. That is one of the reasons I prefer Bernie to Hillary even though as a woman I would like to see a woman in the White House.

Bernie is presenting goals and talking the morality of politics to American voters. That's rather refreshing. Obama talked it but when he got into office, he acquiesced to a lot of corruption. I think it is really hard for a person as nice as Obama to point fingers at the evil around him.

I don't think that pointing fingers at immoral, corrupt behavior is at all difficult for Bernie. That's one of the many reasons I like him. We need a Jeremiah, an Amos, a Jesus in the White House for a change. And Bernie is closer to those great spiritual leaders than is Hillary.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
86. Actually, my Representative in the House, Xavier Becerra, would make a great DNC chair.
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 04:09 PM
Mar 2016

I know him from political events but not as a personal friend.

He is a Stanford law school graduate I believe, and he can really explain things well.

I was first impressed with him when, at our local high school lunchroom, he explained to everyone how Social Security works. A lot of the people in the crowd were immigrants who did not speak great English. He was able to explain how Social Security works and why it is important in both English and Spanish.

He is a wonderful person from what I can tell and has a great personality. In addition, he is really sharp on explaining issues in language people can understand regardless of their mother tongue.

We need him or someone like him as the DNC chair.

My mother who lived in Ohio saw him on TV and was so impressed that she called me to tell me how much she liked him. She was in her early 90s at the time.

Now he should be DNC chair.

 

CalvinballPro

(1,019 posts)
87. I don't disagree with you. And I'm not defending DWS per se, just criticizing the crazy expectations
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 04:15 PM
Mar 2016

put on her in her role as DNC Chair by people on the Left. To me it seems like a largely thankless job herding cats. The Democratic Party is also varied in terms of demographics, in that there are conservative Democrats, moderate Democrats, liberal Democrats, and progressive Democrats. How does anyone please all those factions at once without angering any of them?

It's just ridiculous to pin the losses of dozens of campaigns, all run by different candidates and their staffs, onto one woman. I don't care how much the Left despises her; it's not fair.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
92. Somehow, the DWSs and Rahm Emmanuels who have taken on leadership roles in the Party in
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 04:50 PM
Mar 2016

recent years have managed to offend an awful lot of progressive Democrats.

That is clear from just a quick survey of the posts here on DU.

A truly moderate leader of the Party, a socially adept leader of the Party would be able to accommodate and understand the many points of view and needs of members of our Party.

We have not had such a leader in a number of years.

Tact is a wonderful quality. So is a loving personality. I do not want to disparage any specific individuals any further. But some people have the grace (like Obama) to project love and to respond with tact, and some don't.

It just is not very smart to place at the head of the DNC a person who is not as tactful or who cannot project a positive outlook and personality. We need someone different. There are lots of capable candidates. I know Xavier Becerra (not on a personal level but as a politician and representative of my community) and would recommend him strongly.

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
76. It is always a delight
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 03:49 PM
Mar 2016

to get caustic replies from someone that has barely been on this site for a week.

Ugly remarks from people that are new here always make me go ... hmmm.

May I suggest that before darting into threads to flame others that you reconsider your method of winning friends and influencing people you barely know?

EDIT: Oh look, you already have a hide with only 57 posts in. Do enjoy your stay here.

 

CalvinballPro

(1,019 posts)
80. I could care less what you think of my comment count.
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 03:53 PM
Mar 2016

You're not the first troll to try and rub being new to DU in my face somehow. If you're a representative of DU's progressive wing, then not knowing you seems far preferable to the alternative.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
63. Your candidate likes to praise monsters with no proof they are the heroes she claims.
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 03:06 PM
Mar 2016

'None of you will remember but Ron and Nancy started the AIDS conversation no one else would have' leaves everyone else on Earth miles to do before entering the territory of rhetorical irresponsibility of your reckless candidate and he total lack of knowledge of the history she herself lived through.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
71. I had a sense that there was really not much energy and organization behind the 2014 campaign
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 03:39 PM
Mar 2016

on the Democratic side.

I have a sense that Debbie Wasserman Schultz is loyal and reliable but not very creative and resourceful.

At this time, we need people who are creative and resourceful. That is the problem with DWS. She is not the right person at the right time.

She also does not give the impression that she is lighthearted or can have fun, and voters want to vote for a party that makes them feel upbeat. Debbie Wasserman Schultz always seems cross, angry, annoyed. She does not exude enthusiasm or pride. And it is enthusiasm and pride and courage that get people out to vote.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
9. Damn I am missing the entertrainment then
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 11:58 AM
Mar 2016

We have CNN-I at mom's, and their coverage of the race has been far less ahem, strident. (And propaganda filled).

That said, if conservadems are crossing over, that is bad for Clinton. But today, I cannot enjoy a cheap read like last weak, boy was that fun.

 

bunnies

(15,859 posts)
22. Really? Wow.
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 01:43 PM
Mar 2016

I was just going by the callers into Ari Rabin-Havt's show this morning. Many Clinton - Kasich crossovers. Trump now too? None of the Bernie people were crossing over though.

Kittycat

(10,493 posts)
28. I would not be surprised if it was a portion of both splits, Trump & Kasisch
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 01:54 PM
Mar 2016

Nobody wants Clinton. It's Kasisch's home field, and surprise-surprise, the Independents are breaking left. What do you want to bet, they broke for Bernie? We have lost so many Dems because of party abandonment of ideals and the race for the right. Those indies are center, they're left!

 

bunnies

(15,859 posts)
29. I agree with you.
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 01:56 PM
Mar 2016

The indies are center myth is dead. The Democratic party should be thanking Bernie for helping them identify so many lost party members. Question now is, what will they do with that information? Keep moving right and lose more Dems? Or go left and bring them home.

Kittycat

(10,493 posts)
38. Until all that's left is the Third Way. Which again - why don't they just go make their own party
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 02:12 PM
Mar 2016

Since they're clearly unhappy with democrats, and want to be republicans that sometimes support women's rights and gay rights or wage improvements, when it polls well enough to get an extra vote or two.

 

bunnies

(15,859 posts)
54. Somethings got to give, thats for damn sure.
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 02:42 PM
Mar 2016

Its clearer than ever that we don't all share the same core values. I think both parties are headed for a split. Just a matter of when.

BainsBane

(53,035 posts)
27. Clinton supporters are crossing over to vote against Trump
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 01:49 PM
Mar 2016

In making phone calls I've come across a number of them, more than I have Bernie supporters. I should make clear I was calling for Missouri, but I found similar crossover against Trump in Minnesota, though there they didn't outnumber Bernie supporters.

BainsBane

(53,035 posts)
11. Right, they are supporting Trump because there is no leftist alternative?
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 12:08 PM
Mar 2016

Is that your argument? That doesn't say much for Bernie, does it?

BainsBane

(53,035 posts)
25. I can't follow the logic
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 01:47 PM
Mar 2016

or how they don't understand they are in effect arguing against the appeal of their own candidate.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
65. It is not an argument against Bernie it is a view into the level that some
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 03:12 PM
Mar 2016

disaffected voters are now going, taking a chance with Trump.

It would be a mistake to presume all these voters are racists, and
that is their main motivation. What we're seeing across the board
are reactions to disappointment and how far that will take a loose
cannon ( Trump) is yet to be seen.

That is how I interpret the OP, it is not a good reflection on our
party overall..meaning trust and our message and can we deliver
has fallen short. I prefer to try and learn from these bizarre times
we are in..and it is difficult to measure accurately right now.

BainsBane

(53,035 posts)
66. The fault presumably is on DWS
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 03:23 PM
Mar 2016

according to the OP.

Whether or not they are racist, white rage is a central impulse in this campaign. The entire discourse about the demise of America is about the decline of the white male middle and upper-middle class. America was "great" during Jim Crow, before women had access to decent employment, before anyone but those born into a particular race, class, and gender had any shot at what they believed was an American dream. I might be more sympathetic if the discourse and presentation of history did not exclude the vast majority of Americans. So no, I'm not willing to go back to the days when those people thought America was great. I have seen far too much of that ultra conservative mentality take control of the Democratic Party already.

To ignore the fact that prosperity, indeed the very conception of freedom, for whites in this country was built upon the subjugation of non-whites, and slaves in particular, ignores the very birth of the concepts at the heart of our nation. It is not coincidental that much of the rhetoric about the demise of America corresponds historically with the rise of equal rights for the majority. Trump makes that connection explicit in a way other candidates only hint at.

Note the frequent claims that poverty is now worse than at any point in history. It is not. It is substantially lower than in the 30s and even the 70s. Yet one demographic has experienced economic decline. Yet that experience is described as universal, as though the rest of us are inconsequential.



Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
70. She should have been replaced, her failures are well documented.
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 03:35 PM
Mar 2016

No, that is one reaction from the racists, but as I said, it would
be a mistake to presume that these crossovers are all or even
most about that sentiment. I say this when looking at our lower
voter turnout too..overall. I think we'll eventually learn there is
correlation between that and Trump receiving some of our voters.

With that said, I am happy to lose any racists to Trump. The GOP establishment
should disavow Trump now then move to the center and let him collect all the idiots
to begin a Third Party. There are not enough of them to win the WH. He has
effectively ended the Republican Party as we know it regardless. I don't
ever expect the GOP establishment to do the responsible thing, but what a mess
..to put it lightly. Have you noticed not one Republican candidate has said
vote for me over Trump and I promise you I will not allow trade deals to hurt
your future..not one as far as I am aware..which is part of the Trump appeal.

BainsBane

(53,035 posts)
79. I haven't followed the Republican race
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 03:52 PM
Mar 2016

The Democratic one is disconcerting enough as it is.

Whether or not DWS should be replaced has nothing to do with the claims the OP makes. It is clear to me that people many have no idea what the DNC actually does. DWS is a scapegoat for everything, much of which has nothing to do with the DNC.

The upset about Democrats defecting to support Trump indicates people seem to think those votes belong to Bernie, which in itself is revealing.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
83. I watch them very closely, they are a train wreck of enormous proportion.
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 03:58 PM
Mar 2016

We as Dems know how corrupt they are, its a given, yet what I find
frightening about the establishment is they know they're going down
and still will not make enough concessions to their corporate interest
holders to throw out a meaningful bone to the Trump supporters.
That's how corrupt they are, and Trump knows it. When Trump talks
about who they're beholding to, they essentially say nothing, b/c
they can't.



BainsBane

(53,035 posts)
88. This mantra about corporations is getting old
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 04:16 PM
Mar 2016

The GOP has created a monster. They deliberately played wedged issues for decades in order to expand support beyond the country clubs. The part of the party you think they should appeal to is fucking certifiable. They don't believe in science, they call the President a Muslim and education and evidence irrelevant to them. Not wanting to succumb completely to the hatred they have sowed is not the result of the influence of capital but simple sanity and self-preservation. They know they can't hold national office based on those candidates. Neither Trump or Cruz is electable, and the GOP establishment knows it. They have screwed themselves royally.

The core ideology of the Republican party has to do smaller government and specifically less regulation of business. Corporations haven't corrupted that. They directly benefit from it.

Bernie's mantra about corporations is incredibly simplistic and he's wrong on some key points, climate change for example. A number of major corporations for years, over a decade now, have been asking for national regulation about carbon emissions so they can plan their businesses accordingly. The GOP hasn't responded because they have an anti-science, anti-evidence base that at times works against the economic interests of big business.

Now so-called "progressives" want to emulate the Republican base and create government whose primary function is to validate their anger. They would do to the Democratic Party exactly what the Tea Party has done to the GOP. They have developed the same contempt for evidence-based, policy analysis.

We have created a culture where people believe what they want, disregard evidence that doesn't affirm their preexisting views and privileges emotion, and anger in particular, over reason. That, more than anything, is what will bring about our decline.

There is a connection with corporations in terms of the atrocity that passes for broadcast news in this country. The cable news effect on American society has been incredibly corrosive, and its influence reverberates across the political spectrum. Americans feel empowered to pick the "facts" that suit them, and often can't distinguish fact from belief or emotion. The result is a public that revels in misinformation.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
91. That is who they are beholding to (corporations) while they ignore their base and it has come back
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 04:31 PM
Mar 2016

to end their party..that is the reality. They have kept them happy or tried to for decades by
appealing to their racist based fundie beliefs..and there is the tried and true
faux news to keep them dumb.

The GOP establishment should move to the center and leave the rest for Trump, that
is what I said earlier. They should disavow Trump now, they're going to lose the
WH either way. Let Trump form a Third party, he won't win anything as long
as the establishment begins to appeal to the center. I have no idea who you
think I was referring to..we have a two party system and for the last seven years
it is almost ungovernable due to their beholding to special interests and fomenting
divide based on social issues..that is who kept them in power. You do realize the
base of the GOP when polled feel they have been betrayed..60% of them.

Progressives have been reading the writing on the wall for a long time, best
for non progressive Dems to realize that reality. That is why there is
a split within our party..not anything as unreasonable nor threatening
as the GOP but it does exist.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
85. You added your commentary about DWS after I replied..she is in fact a representative
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 04:05 PM
Mar 2016

in a significant manner..how we stay in power and how we advance the number
of Dems. To disconnect our losses, low voter turn out and cross overs with
her performance would be mistake.

Bad Thoughts

(2,524 posts)
20. There could have been a full field of candidates rathr than "Her Turn"
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 01:30 PM
Mar 2016

People just don't feel the party is offering sufficient choices.

BainsBane

(53,035 posts)
24. There were a field of candidates
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 01:46 PM
Mar 2016

They have since dropped out. There remain two.

If people are attracted to Trump, they belong in the GOP. I do not want a Democratic Party that appeals to the basest level of the American electorate.

 

november3rd

(1,113 posts)
23. I hope she's watching it, too.
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 01:45 PM
Mar 2016

I don't think it's worth it, though, for us to lose the election to Trump just so she can realize the error of her ways.

Dem2

(8,168 posts)
26. Bernie is an exciting candidate who should be getting people to the polls
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 01:48 PM
Mar 2016

I feel like you are blaming somebody who isn't responsible for exciting the voters, it's the candidates that do that, no? I mean granted nobody likes DWS, but really she can't be responsible for those who cross over to see the house burning down.

grasswire

(50,130 posts)
30. This smells of disinformation intended to explain a Hillary loss.
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 01:58 PM
Mar 2016

Disinformation from Brock.

Their polling shows Hillary down, so they explain it by saying their voters are crossing over to vote against Trump.

Yurovsky

(2,064 posts)
32. Brock knows who butters his bread...
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 02:01 PM
Mar 2016

first it was the Clinton-haters, then it was the Clintons.

I wonder what he'll do for money if Hillary goes down in flames?

Oilwellian

(12,647 posts)
34. The least she could have done is voter registration drives on college campuses
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 02:07 PM
Mar 2016

The DNC has always done it in the past. I wonder why she didn't even do that?

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
35. I can't see Democrats who despise Third Way ever voting for Trump. But
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 02:08 PM
Mar 2016

it is true that DWS and Third Way establishment leadership has led the Democratic to the brink of extinction.

Nothing but a Bernie presidency can save the Democratic party now.

ellennelle

(614 posts)
46. no kidding, DWS made matters worse
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 02:21 PM
Mar 2016

but never forget; hillary and her husband were charter members of the DLC, which is the real 3rd way culprit.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
47. Conservative Democrats ALWAYS cross to vote GOP.
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 02:22 PM
Mar 2016

In this case, reportedly Trump is drawing most of the nation's conservative Democrats; however, in Ohio could they be going for Kasich? Inquiring minds want to know.

(The DNC has virtually nothing to say about what's going on in Ohio -- it's a big, powerful state and its own party apparatus wouldn't appreciate interference from afar.)

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
58. PAYDAY LENDING DEBBIE.
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 02:50 PM
Mar 2016

Is that not perfectly fucked up awesomeness or what?

She makes clear where her political allies are, does she not?

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