Of Course I Still Support Bernie

[Tom Rinaldo]

Why wouldn't I? I believe in the man, I believe in his message. I remain thrilled with every opportunity he gets, as a Democratic candidate for President, to deliver his piercing indictment of the status quo to a national audience. I will help him continue to do so in every way I can.

I think it highly unlikely that Bernie will win the Democratic nomination, but Hell, that's what I thought back when I was among those urging him to enter the race. Frankly I think his chances are still higher now than they were when he first declared: The man just lost Illinois by less than 2% - how many of us believed that was possible last spring? Bernie Sanders, Democratic Socialist candidate from the small state of Vermont, has shown the world that he is a viable candidate to be President of the United States. The fact that Hillary Clinton seems likely set to win that nomination instead doesn't change that reality.

The campaign that Bernie Sanders is running continues to be a constructive one. If at times some of the themes he focuses on point to weaknesses in his Democratic opponent, trust me, he hasn't exposed anything that the Republicans aren't fully briefed on, and unlike them, Bernie doesn't get personal and nasty. If anything, being challenged from the left has helped Hillary shore up some of her arguments and positions to better be able to compete in a year when a strong populist fever is sweeping America.

To me it doesn't matter how small a chance Bernie has to actually win now. Yes it is very small, though it's far from inconceivable. Bernie has moved the political debate in America so remarkably far in only a few short months. That is what once seemed inconceivable. Let's keep this show on the road, I like where it has taken us so far, and look forward to miles to come.

[farleftlib]

1. I still support Bernie Sanders too!

Why would I not? He is the only candidate who has the interests of a majority of the electorate at heart. He has accomplished nothing short of a miracle so far and says he's in it until Philadelphia this summer, and I applaud that decision.

It will be an honor for me to continue to work for him until that moment. He is worth fighting for because he is the only one fighting for us. It ain't over til it's over.

K & R.

[Armstead]

2. I supported him in 1997 and I will continue to support him

I just hope (but fear) the Democrats do not decide to ignore it all and just get lazy and complacent once again and continue their leadership's cozy relationships with Wall St. and Big Bidness.

[Trajan]

3. I'm very disappointed in my fellow Americans. ..

I maintain an image in my head of our society being full of really intelligent human beings, yet, I learned long ago that this image is false, and the reality is: most people are utterly ignorant ...

I keep forgetting how stupid the majority is, until days like yesterday ... Then reality comes barreling down the track like an out of control freight train....

So disappointed ... I'll still keep giving money, but, the emotional investment needs to be checked ...

We are headed to a major disappointment, I'm afraid, but I still believe that Bernie is the ONLY real change agent in the race ....

I'm guessing the bulk of the population simply has no idea how fucked they are ...

In the end, I have a good job ... I am paid well and my family is doing very well, so my efforts on Bernie's behalf isn't about me personally,: it's because I care about our society sinking further and further for most citizens... But hey, if society is too fucking STUPID to vote in their own interest, then, WTF am I worried about?

Your wages are substandard - your pensions stolen - your children's future becomes bleaker and bleaker - your country has created a private prison system that uses the power of government to ensnare hapless citizens so that a very few wealthy supporters can take in billions of tax dollars for the imprisonment of citizens from an ever expanding code of laws, bought and paid for by friends if Hillary AND Trump ...

Bernie and his acolytes have tried in earnest to explain what is at stake, yet, the majority still votes based on the most piddling nonsense ...

Yeah ... Fuck that ... Head down .. Mouth closed ... Done ...

[Lizzie Poppet]

5. Yeah. I can't really pretend to entirely respect non-1%ers who vote for Hillary.

Yes, I realize that's a bit arrogant, even condescending. And for the many Hillary supporters here who haven't been insufferable, gloating assholes, I feel bad about it. But I have to be honest with myself: I don't much respect people who vote against their rather glaringly obvious self-interest, particularly based on symbolic reasons or brand loyalty.

[BuddhaGirl]

38. Will you vote for Hillary in the GE?

I'm a Hillary supporter, a member of the non-1%, and support much of what Bernie is advocating.

For me, I can't respect those Bernie supporters, who have adamantly stated on this site, that they will refuse to vote for Hillary in the GE.

[Lizzie Poppet]

40. I've been saying it depends.

Depends on whether or not my state is in play in November (highly unlikely: I live in Oregon), that is.

I've been reconsidering that decision, though...based entirely on the avalanche of shit that's been flowing from the Hillary camp here on DU: gloating, condescension, suggestions we should get lost or aren't needed, etc. I know it's petty of me, but I really, really don't tolerate assholes gracefully. Hopefully, the many graceful, adult Hillary supporters can ameliorate my view.

But it likely won't matter; Oregon's not going to break red.

[BuddhaGirl]

44. Well - imo the upcoming election is so much bigger

than us as individuals, and the perceived behavior of Hillary's or Bernie's supporters...and Bernie's supporters have been just as bad as Hillary's on this site. It disappoints me to see such ugliness.

So many lives and our country will be affected negatively if there is a Trump (or other republican) presidency. I really really hope people can realize that for the GE.

[marions ghost]

67. We do realize that

"So many lives and our country will be affected negatively if there is a Trump --"

Sanders beats Trump. You have to put your money on the BEST candidate, not the lesser of 2 evils.

[BuddhaGirl]

70. Your opinion

Hillary has the better chance of beating Trump, not Bernie. And I don't consider her to be the "lesser of 2 evils."

YMMV

[Scootaloo]

60. If you supported it, you wouldn't work to oppose it

Supporting sanders' ideas, and putting in the work to make sure they never happen doesn't make any sense.

[BuddhaGirl]

61. I support some of Sanders' positions

I support some of Hillary's positions. I just happen to think she's the better candidate right now.

If Sanders won the nomination, I would, without hesitation, vote for him in the GE.

It "makes sense" to me.

[Tom Rinaldo]

6. Inertia is a very had force to counter

After decades of mind numbing media and heavily financed divide and conquer tactics, plus free tickets to the Roman Coliseum, it it hard to break through and gain traction with a radically different message. Bernie has done amazingly well at that in an amazingly short period of time.

[Nitram]

20. Thanks for letting me know that you don't entirely respect me,

and that I'm a victim of my own inertia. Your patronizing condescension is duly noted, and I find it truly disgusting. Like so many right wingers, you can't conceive of the possibility that anyone could hold a different point of view than you and not be wrong. You've belittled and demonized any fellow American who supports Hillary Clinton because we see the good in her and respect her intelligence and experience.

[Tom Rinaldo]

22. Jeeeze. I took the comment I was replying to as despair over the large picture

Which first and foremost in the public mind includes the rise of Trumpism in America. A fake populist billionaire who is appealing to working class Americans struggling to make ends meet from pay check to pay check. A lot of working class voters who should be and often are literally Democrats are defecting to him. Yes, I fear that in part is because the Democratic Party has failed to hone a powerful economic populist message or platform. I personally think Bernie is stronger at that than Hillary, but NO I am not accusing Clinton supporters of being dumb or voting against there own self interests or whatever. If I was unclear about that above I apologize.

[Nitram]

23. Tom, I was responding to both you and Lizzie.

Please discount anything that doesn't apply to your comment.

[hfojvt]

19. I feel somewhat the same way about Bernie supporters

I am rather surprised that there are so many Democrats willing to support the destruction of the Democratic Party.

Perhaps it is just a function of low turnout.

[Trajan]

24. Without getting overly critical

I would note that Bernie, carrying forth with the same essential ideas that FDR brought to the New Deal, is inherently MORE in line with Democratic Party philosophies than any other democrat, period ...

Bernie supporters are SAVING the Democratic Party from destroying itself, who have been adopting Republican party policies for the last 25 years ...

It's been a pernicious drift to the right, and THAT is what is 'destroying the Democratic Party', NOT members so are trying to maintain the essential philosophical viewpoint as the New Deal Democrats ...

You have got it backwards ...

Now? ... Goodbye ...

[Qutzupalotl]

33. +1, well said.

[hfojvt]

46. that might be true

if Bernie was Paul Wellstone or Russ Feingold or even Bill Bradley.

Except he's a socialist. He was a socialist in 2015.

So if we nominate him, we are officially declaring

"We are no longer the Democratic Party, we are now the Democratic Socialist Party."

I know some people are fine with that, but my own feeling, my own prediction is - the Democratic Socialist party will get defeated very badly.

Nice closing line.

Next time try

Shomanie totanka obwa chee me ye elo.

[Trajan]

57. By your reckoning - FDR was also a socialist

And FDR won four terms as President of the United States ... He was beloved by the people ...

The mere fact that you refuse to acknowledge that Bernie is a DEMOCRATIC socialist, and because you instead used the loaded term 'socialist' without leavening the reference with the term 'Democratic' - This informs us that you have no respect for the history of your party and the GOOD things they had done ... When they were 'real' Democrats ...

Why do you deny this benevolent history ? ... What does the Democratic Party mean to you? ... Is it just a vessel to hold your favorite candidate ? ... Does it stand for ANYTHING? ...

What policies of FDR do you despise? ... Is it Social Security that you hate? ... Was it the Banking Act of 1934? ... Overtime and unionization laws? ... Do you regret Child Labor laws and public schooling? ...

Is THAT what you hate about the New Deal?

In any case - you will be blocked from my view from here on out ... I choose to NOT participate in discussions with those people who IMPLY that FDR was a fucking communist ...

[KPN]

39. Destruction? Are youo saying Bernie supporters are destroying the Democratic Party?

If so, I find that extremely offensive, arrogant and condescending. Get off your high horse sir or madam. I have been and have voted Democrat my entire 65 year old life. I have every fucking right to try to change where our party has headed and continues to head -- just as yoou do. If the party gets destroyed over this, you and the 3rd Wayers will be equally to blame, if not more so.

If you can't tell, I'm fucking pissed at this attitude. Another 3rd Way poster literally said "Go start your own party" to Berners on this form earlier today. Talk about fucking arrogance! Geesh!!!!

We ain't giving up -- get the hell over it!

[hfojvt]

43. thank goodness for a voice of reason

Arrogant?

No, I am just looking at the situation.

This is not about "changing where the party has headed". Personally, I am all for that. I have hated Bill Clinton since early 1992, and was ABC in 2007. Anybody But Clinton.

The problem is - Bernie is a socialist. He's not a liberal. He's a socialist.

If our party goes crazy and nominates a socialist then guess what? We just proved the Republicans were right and we were a bunch of liars. Because for years and years and years the right wing has been saying "The Democrats are a bunch of socialists".

Why do they do that? Because they KNOW that a vast majority of voters will NOT support socialism. If they can brand us with the S-word, we are dead meat. Put a fork in us, we are DONE.

Now some people in our party want to accept that brand. Because they have a suicide wish., seemingly. Because they carry around pictures of Chairman Mao or something. They gush about a revolution.

And their main method of argument seems to ALWAYS involve - a whole bunch of anger. They are ready to spew hate at everybody who is not 100% with them.

"I'm fucking pissed" you say.

One of my own sayings, that I apply to myself is - 'there is no problem so bad, that you cannot make it worse by losing your temper'.

I know. I have done it. and done it. and done it.

Clearly the best way to improve our country is with a large heap of anger and hate.

I feel like I am talking to a whole bunch of young people from the 1960s, who are all mad because they are not immediately as rich as their parents were when they were kids, and so they are ready and willing to burn down the world. You should be old enough to know better.

[KPN]

59. FYI

I am way better off than my parents were financially and life-style-wise. You make faulty assumptions as opposed to keeping an open mind. This ain't about me ... my time is growing short comparatively. It's about what I've seen go on over the past 35 years and the abject failure of 3rd Way politics when it comes to the economy ( and before you make any more assumptions, I've done quite well via my career and via Wall Street investments). I see way too many people struggling to get ahead today, way too much vulture capitalism, way to much condemnation of more and more people to just-get-by lifestyle for me to ignore my good fortune in life and not feel like doing everything I can to right the wrongs of trickle down capitalism the past 40 years. Meanwhile, you sit by preaching about people shouldn't get be passionate and shouldn't feel angry when othets tell them to fall in line or get the hell out of the party. Mighty nice of you. Frankly, you should be ashamed, but I doubt you have that capacity.

[So Far From Heaven]

63. Wow. This is so wrong on so many levels.

What are you REALLY afraid of?

Define liberal, then define socialist in your own words. I can't wait for the answers.

This almost sounds like the McCarthy era 'better dead than red' shit I grew up with.

[Lizzie Poppet]

42. The Party is destroying itself.

Or, perhaps, simply rendering itself irrelevant to progressives.

[hfojvt]

49. I notice that about Bernie supporters

they seem to hate the Democratic Party.

[Lizzie Poppet]

50. I can only speak for myself...

...but I don't hate the party. I hate its direction, though.

[Turin_C3PO]

64. It's not even stupidity.

I know many very intelligent people who are extremely ignorant when it comes to politics and the life/death issues that face us. A lack of curiosity. I'm honestly not sure what to do about this. People can't be forced to pay attention, unfortunately.

Edited to add: The above text is NOT referring to Clinton supporters.

[Lizzie Poppet]

4. My support for Bernie isn't brand-based (not a Dem), it's idea-based.

So I'm in for the duration, too.

[ablamj]

62. Same here

They don't realize how many of us have no allegiance to a party, but vote on principle. It will be interesting to see how Hillary plans on courting the independents. I don't see it ending well.

[A Simple Game]

7. The only way the best candidates win is if you vote for them.

A concept that seems to be lost on a large minority on DU.

[Surya Gayatri]

8. K & R....Hillary Clinton supporter here.

[NurseJackie]

9. Nice post.

[Tom Rinaldo]

14. Thank you

Working together there is much of great value within our grasp to win.

[Tragl1]

10. I couldn't agree more.

I will simply support Bernie until he decides to end his run, either in victory, or in concession. But either way I'm proud of what this movement has done, is doing, and will possibly do in the future. Plus it's awesome watching the DNC come to grips with an electorate it doesn't understand. I prescribe lots of beer for everyone, enjoy this movement/moment for what it is.

[LiberalArkie]

11. As long as HRC keeps adopting a lot of his viewpoints, I am happy. I would be

extremely excited if the Republicans actually saw what was happening to their party and tried to move back to where they used to be.

[mountain grammy]

12. Far from inconceivable.

We've come a long way.. I'm sure not ready to give in.
It's that Nancy Reagan obituary. I just can't make myself believe it was a mistake. She was speaking to Republicans about their hero and told a lie just for them. She didn't have to lie, she could have said nothing about AIDS, they probably wouldn't have noticed. But, re-writing history? We noticed.

[Deadshot]

13. I still support Bernie, but it's mathematically impossible for him to win at this point.

I like the idea of getting behind a single candidate now to defeat Trump in the fall.

[Tom Rinaldo]

15. I will work to get behind a single canddate when the time comes

For now I will continue to advocate for the Sanders platform and his candidacy in the same spirit that he has embraced. From day one Bernie has said that he knows Hillary, likes Hillary and respects her, and that he considers her a friend. We can pursue significant differences where they exist on policy, process, and priorities, in a civil manner until we select our nominee.

[bettyellen]

47. I appreciate this greatly, Tom. Thank you.

[Tom Rinaldo]

48. You are very welcome. n/t

[bettyellen]

51. I'm biting my lip after the vagina thread. After the "brick" thread survived here....

I thought I would leave till the primary is over. But I have to believe those are trolls.

[Tom Rinaldo]

53. There are always trolls. This is 21st Century politics

It can be hard to know for certain who they are because they mimic and amplify divisive sentiments that preexist. A troll, or troll team, can work both sides of a debate, with different ID's, just to inflame tensions on both sides, goading people into angry reactive postures. The goal is often simply to sour people on participation.

NEVER judge a candidate by their most provocative online supporters - they may in fact be sincere but they are not the candidate. Judge the candidate.

[bettyellen]

54. I agree- it's just the level of agreement certain trollish insults have gotten here is unreal.

I get that within certain peer groups "Bern the witch" might be funny. But I have to say dudes are idiots if they think that shit actually did anything except hurt their campaign. The party is not just a bunch of angry young Redditors. Clueless.

[Tom Rinaldo]

55. Yes. A broad brush dismissal of Hillary critics as being "BernieBro's" was demeaning also

This stuff happens every time we have contested primaries in a Presidential Election year. I've been through the 2004 and 2008 cycles before this one came along, same song with different lyrics.

[bettyellen]

56. I agree. I do think there aren certain smug people who enjoy the vitriol more than they care about

the issues. I think the bro thing at DU was started by a certain TSed rat-fucker, but the proliferation of ugly memes didn't help.
What I think was really stupid was that when AAs here complained there was nothing (and this was true) in Bernie's speeches and web site about racial issues, they were immediately dismissed as trolls and rudely dismissed. Narrow minded foolishness.

[Deadshot]

58. And you can clearly do that as it is your right.

I, however, will be a realist and embrace the inevitable.

[navarth]

16. as if there's any question

there's no way I stop supporting Bernie.

No way I can cast a vote for Clinton. I would vote against the Reptiles however. Lesser of two evils. Whoopee.

[tblue]

17. I'll never give up and HC hasn't been pushed an iota

Only her language has changed and it will change back as soon as she thinks she can take our votes for granted, which they won't be, as long as Bernie is still in the race. I'm so glad he is and I am as committed to him as ever. He has never given up on us and I'll never give up on him.

[Amimnoch]

18. K&R, from another Hillary supporter.

Very respectable and admirable.

Truly a role model that reflects your candidate in the best light!

[Uncle Joe]

21. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Tom Rinaldo.

[Duval]

25. In this house, we still support Bernie.

Go Bernie Go!

[bkkyosemite]

26. There are so many of these posts. I will back Bernie BUT OR IF HE DOESN'T

Defeatist posts. Fight the good fight...Bernie is!

[jwirr]

27. K&R

[bullwinkle428]

28. GREAT post - perhaps the best "post-mortem" that could be written

following the events of last night. K&R.

ETA: I see that Thom Hartmann was amongst the recommenders - don't be shocked if he reads this post on the air today!

[knixphan]

29. phonebank to the states ahead

Explain why we fight for a better America.
Big kids, let's go!

[LoisB]

30. I will continue to support Bernie.

[onecaliberal]

31. I will always support him and his message for the duration of his career, and long after.

[Betty Karlson]

32. I'll go with every last chance that Sanders wins this nomination.

Because I'd rather avoid that moment I feel the Democratic Party has betrayed me, and lost me.

[zentrum]

34. Here's my problem.

Voters in last night's states don't care about the transcripts. Don't care about millions of dollars in speaking fees from the corporations that are destroying the middle class. Don't care about her Iraq war support. Don't care that they voted against a not-for-profit health care system. Don't care about prisons for profit. Education for profit.

I'll keep fighting for change and for Bernie, and keep sending him money, but I feel despair over the American voter. I realize she's the candidate that the RW wants because they feel she's the most defeatable——(Murdoch said as much several months ago)—and so perhaps we saw their back room help in engineering last night's results. But even so.

The Dems are not the party of FDR anymore except for a few—Warren and Bernie—but the country is not anymore the country of FDR.

Fighting on in any event.

[bklyncowgirl]

35. I too will continue to support Bernie. Like you said "keep the show on the road."

[NRaleighLiberal]

36. Exactly.

[LiberalLovinLug]

37. K & R

[davidthegnome]

41. So do I.

Last night was a tough night for Sanders supporters, I think the victory in Michigan made us overconfident. We did not expect to win there, so we started to have more hope in States where the polls showed us being way down. That said, it would be (IMO) ridiculous, cowardly and even counter-productive to abandon our candidate now. So we're in a rough spot, so we have to fight an uphill battle, so this is going to be really difficult, taking on corporations, lobbyists, the rich and powerful elite, the corporate media and so on and so forth... so, uhm... what has changed, exactly? From how it was before? A few delegates, a few states, yeah, it sucks that we lost them, but we can learn from these defeats. If taken in the proper context, you learn a lot more from losing than from winning.

We came up from almost National irrelevance, to major significance in regards to campaign fund-raising, overall votes, our message, our principles, all of this is now being forced into the National debate, on to the National stage. The media can only twist so much, our message resonates with the American people. Strongly.

This race is far from over, even in many of our losses we have come very, very close to winning and have ended up winning half (or nearly half) of the delegates. We can still do this thing. Yes it's going to be hard, but was it ever going to be otherwise?

Whatever happens going forward, we have made a difference. Whatever happens going forward, no victory or defeat is absolute until it actually happens. Ask sports fans, ask generals, ask political leaders past and present. My faith in Sanders and in the movement he represents remains unbroken, remains strong.

Far from throwing in the towel, let's think about our losses, let's learn from them - and consider what we can do differently going forward. We can absolutely still win this thing.

[Tom Rinaldo]

45. We are part of a movement

And a movement is larger than any election. The fact that we still have a chance to elect one of the leaders of our movement to become the next President of he United States this year is amazing, and so much more than I dreamed possible just a short time ago. But the movement needs to keep fighting whether or not we elect Sanders now. He will still need us if he wins. We will still need him if he loses. We win together by fighting on. Right now our strategy focuses on using this election season to gain strength. An election campaign can be a highly effective organizing tool, win or lose, we get stronger through it.

We can still win; the media has already counted Bernie out before, only to have to back track on that presumption. If Bernie gets on a strong enough roll now as we head west it can change again. But our responsibility remains the same no matter what his chances may now be. Seize the moment, use this campaign for every last watt of the spot light it can shine on what is wrong and what is right about America between now and the Democratic Convention.

[blm]

52. Well said, old buddy.

Salute.

[eridani]

65. The more delegates Sanders has, the stronger the message we take to the Dem convention n/t

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

68. How does that work? If Clinton has 51% of delegates, it's over.

One vote, and he's done. Along with any pretense of left-leaning on the part of HRC. Any message Sanders wants to make will be drowned out, after the first vote.

BxS is unlikely to win from this far behind. HRC and DWS probably have this locked up.

On to November, and try to look enthusiastic.

[eridani]

71. The other 49% show up at the convention and push our issues.

I remember that in 2004, Dean and Kucinich urged their delegates to switch to Kerry for a unanimous vote. The Dean and some of the Kucinich delegates did so, but the hardcore peaceniks among the latter refused.

[Live and Learn]

66. K&R and ditto. nt

[bigwillq]

69. Great post. K and R

I feel the same.