To Bernie Sanders Supporters

[serbbral]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by mcar (a host of the 2016 Postmortem forum).

Last edited Wed Mar 16, 2016, 03:16 PM - Edit history (1)

I have been here a long time on and off for years. I have not posted much and this is my first thread. However, I felt compelled to post. I have read on this site so often, since the hand writing is on the wall, so to speak, that since it is becoming more of a reality that Hillary Clinton will be the democratic nominee that so many upset Bernie supporters are going to stay home November. It is so ironic to me that these same 'democrats' keep saying "When Hillary loses in November, remember this moment" I say that IF YOU STAY HOME IT WILL BE YOUR FAULT that we have DONALD TRUMP as our President. Don't blame the independents and crossover dems. You had a chance to keep crazy out of the white house and you blew it on purpose. I must note that I voted for Bernie and I am NOT a Hillary Clinton fan. I even stated in the past that I do not know if I could vote for her either, but I am not going to let Trump be our President (or dangerous Cruz either) if I can help it. However, it is your choice.

[monmouth4]

1. In no way is Bernie finished. His wins are coming up. Have faith..n/t

[Jenny_92808]

79. I have faith that Bernie

will be our next President!

[monmouth4]

96. Me too!

[JimDandy]

134. + 1

Go Bernie!

[morningfog]

2. Bullshit.

I plan to vote for the Dem nominee, whomever it is. But, win or loss is always on the candidate and the candidate alone.

[MelSC]

75. Disagree

Still can't stand Nader voters...idiots.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

83. They can be forgiven the first time they do it, as in 2004, but not a second time.

I should say I would never forget someone who did that twice.

[MelSC]

91. Some haven't learned their lesson

So pardon me if I am offending any Nader voters who are in check with how the world really works now.

[progressoid]

115. I still can't stand the 308,000 Democrats in Florida that voted for Bush

[In_The_Wind]

3. DU Rec!

[randr]

4. 4 years of Trump may wake the Democratic Party up

[LonePirate]

29. The damage he could do to the country is not worth the risk or wait.

[-none]

32. Eight years of Bust didn't do it.

All that happened was that the party leaders moved more to the Right to fill the growing gap between the Democratic base and the Tea-Party.
There is not enough critical thinking among the populace anymore to stem the shams being fed us.

[WhiteTara]

127. no. what will happen is that the world

will be worse off and we will become a fascist state without redemption. The world can't handle a temper tantrum of privileged Americans.

[KPN]

143. Sadly, that's what I hear millenials saying that I've been in contact with.

They just seem to be repulsed with HRC and the establishment (they sound a lot like their 60s counterparts).

[Matt_in_STL]

5. Is this going to be the theme now?

Every single thread from Hillary supporters now uses the fear of a Trump presidency to force us into submission and cast a Hillary vote. There isn't any reasoning as to why Hillary is a good choice or how her platform may suit Bernie supporters, just fear, similar to the Republican tactics ("You're either with us or against us&quot .

I refuse to vote on fear. I refuse to cast my vote against someone rather than for someone. If you want my vote and feel it is as valuable to you as it is to me, earn it, don't try to scare me out of it.

[serbbral]

21. Not trying to scare anyone

Just stating a fact. Trump's supporters ARE supporting him and I have no doubt that they will support him come November. If the Dems do not come out, then don't complain when he becomes our President. I voted for Bernie too, but I'd rather see Hillary in office than old crazy.

[dana_b]

54. bullshit

Just because you say it's a "fact" doesn't make it so.

Here - you voting for a lying corporatist pro war hack who is a very flawed and BAD candidate and who will bring us Trump. Fact!!

See how that goes??

[marions ghost]

103. Not time to give up on Bernie

if you ever were for him, which I doubt.

[hamsterjill]

122. Thank you.

THIS is reality.

Bernie supporters should continue to work hard for him, but when Hillary is the ultimate nominee, they need to get in line behind her and support the Democratic nominee. I fully expect that Bernie will address this concern at some point, too, and I believe he will explain this to his supporters and ask that they support the nominee. Bernie understands politics.

[JimDandy]

141. I see. So, you got to vote for Sanders on the backs of the rest of us supporters

who canvassed, phonebanked and donated to him, which gave you the chance to do so, and now, instead of posting a thread to support the rest of us who haven't had a chance to vote for him yet, you are pushing Hillary on us. An unbelievable SBS supporter (really)!

[GreatGazoo]

66. has been since the start. HRC is running a bandwagon campaign since the beginning

the way some talk, one might think we were hostages instead of voters as we get these ultimatums from self-certified psychics.

[PonyUp]

88. Spot on!

[Silver_Witch]

106. Agreed

No more voting out of fear of the OTHER. The DNC needs to run candidates we can vote for without having to hold our nose. I refuse to consider November before the primary is over, however I know it will be hard to consider the a!ternative to Bernie.

[SheenaR]

6. If Trump wins, it's because Hillary couldn't beat a circus clown candidate

Heaven help us if he doesn't get enough delegates and the nominate Kasich on the 2nd ballot.

We would lose in epic proportions

[peace13]

18. This is so true.

Trump wears his clown shirt on the outside....Kasich appears normal next to the clown but cuts with a lethal knife!

[serbbral]

23. About Kasich

Kasich scares me too. I think if he were to become the repub nominee he might just win. However, I think he just had a good night. I don't think he'll come close to being the nom.

[SheenaR]

36. Not the traditional way

But if they get to the convention without a Trump majority, he would be near the top of strongest GE candidates they could put up

[Waiting For Everyman]

25. Very true.

And Hillary loses to Kasich in national polls by a much wider margin than Trump -- about 10 points depending on the poll.

[Kittycat]

7. Lol loyalty oaths & corrupt politicians.

You haven't been listening. This isn't over. We support Bernie, and a different direction for this country. Pay close attention right now. We have only just begun to fight back!

[hamsterjill]

124. You should continue to support Bernie.

You should continue to support Bernie as you seem appropriate through the primary season. But beyond that, when the choice on the final ballot becomes Trump and Hillary, which way are you going to go?

No one is asking for an "oath". We're asking for common sense. When Bernie is no longer one of the choices, what choice WILL you make? If you stay home and don't vote for Hillary, then you do not cancel out one of the votes for Trump, and Trump has the advantage.

And yes, I've heard the argument over the electoral college and how "my vote won't matter anyway". I'm looking at this from the perspective of being a Texan. Texas is poised to turn blue at some point in the future hopefully, and we need every Democratic vote possible.

[revbones]

8. Ugh more loyalty oaths and future-blame.

You're giving Bernie supporters a choice between someone that ran a stealth racist campaign in 2008 against someone that ran an overt racist campaign in 2016.

A choice between someone that sells their vote and someone that buys votes.

A choice between someone that lies and stabs you in the back, and someone that just lies.

A choice between someone that says they don't support free trade, but has supported every free trade agreement since NAFTA and someone that says they don't support free trade but is probably lying since they lie all the time.


Your proposal is basically a choice between a liar that won't own their lies and another liar that doesn't care about their lies.

[serbbral]

24. RE: Ugh more loyalty oaths and future-blame

Good point! That's why I voted for Bernie, because I saw her as racist in 2008. But I cannot see 'The Donald' in the white house, sorry.

[NEOhiodemocrat]

9. I am not a Sanders FAN I am a Sander's Supporter

This is not a game. And to much rides on this election to act like it is. I will decide my vote on how things stand before the election. The positions and believability of the candidates. And if I can't support either so be it. No pledge to blindly follow the leader anymore. My vote is mine and no one is going to get it by being the lesser of two evils. Don't lay the outcome on me. It is my right to vote my conscious. It is the party's place to nominate a strong, electable candidate.

[dragonfly301]

15. +1,000,000 eom

[jillan]

20. Well said - thank you!

[revbones]

27. Hear-hear! nt

[serbbral]

28. @ NEOhiodemocrat

Really? Oh, my! Sorry for MURDERING someone. Okay, YOU ARE A SANDER'S SUPPORTER. Sorry, your heiness. Geeez! I AM A SANDER'S SUPPORTER TOO, okay. Geez. This is NOT a game to me either. Sorry, I could not be perfect.

[peacebird]

85. NEOhiodemocrat posted a solid, valid reply to your OP and you reply like this? Good grief.

FWIW I agree 100% with what NEOhioDemocrat posted. As for your ridiculous over the top "rebuttal" -

[LonePirate]

33. Hopefully your conscience will help console you if Trump is elected & starts to destroy the country.

That's a risk I am not willing to take.

[Art_from_Ark]

116. I'm one of those critters looking into the farmhouse from the outside

and I can't tell the difference between the four-legged critters, and the two-legged ones.

?uuid=Xge46juxEeWI0-YhMKzJdQ

[LonePirate]

117. Visit an optometrist. The differences are as plain as night and day.

[Art_from_Ark]

118. You're the one who needs to see an eye doctor

?w=640&h=360&crop=1

[LonePirate]

121. You need to examine yourself if you base voting decisions on social photos.

The inclusion of a Chelsea Clinton photo only proves how irrational, irresponsible and irrelevant such thinking is. If you think Clinton and Trump are identical, then you definitely need to drop your Clinton hated and start deciding how much you value America's future.

[floriduck]

37. Agreed.

And the country's future is at a crossroads. The direction it takes is up for grabs.

[serbbral]

68. I've Changed my Title to 'Supporter' from 'Fan'

I can be a FAN or a SUPPORTER. I'm not that hung up on titles. I am more hung up on ISSUES.

[Silver_Witch]

108. Agreed

[CrispyQ]

10. Blah, blah, blah.

I'm so sick of being blamed every time the dems put up a corporate shill candidate & lose. It's not working anymore. It's the democratic party's fault that they have drifted so far to the right that some of us no longer recognize the party we grew up with. They have to earn my vote. They don't just get it cuz they suck less.

They've been playing this game for 30 fucking years & I'm sick of it.



I miss unrec.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

11. I always vote. Fortunately, my ballot come with more than 2 choices.

I won't waste my vote on a Republican or "lesser of two evils" Democrat.

[Shadowflash]

26. Word.

I'm going to vote for the candidate I deem best suited to hold the office and most aligns with my views and values.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

45. "In matters of conscience, the law of the majority has no place" -Gandhi

[dana_b]

161. I love this n/t

[JonLeibowitz]

12. Loyalty oaths lol. And by the way, we are Bernie supporters not fans.

I can guarantee I will be voting in the November election, don't worry. beyond that, my vote is my own.

[coyote]

13. So you are saying this is another election of who we should voting against

Instead of someone we should be for...how motivating. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. Hillary is all yours, you own it.

[Kentonio]

14. If we end up with Trump as president, its because the party chose a bad candidate to run against him

[peace13]

16. Just what I expected.

I think Bernie supporters are tired of being bated like this and then getting a block defending themselves. Suffice it to say that we would expect nothing less from the outside. Bernie will move forward and time will tell the outcome. The rest of the impatient, whining folks will just have to wait and see with the rest of us.

[pinebox]

17. Sorry but you're wrong

and this is on the DNC for putting up a candidate and rigging the whole system with a candidate who can't be trusted and who is under an FBI investigation.

That is HILLARY and her SUPPORTERS who have gone ahead and tried to absolutely smear who is probably the most honest guy in politics. Don't blame us for a faulty candidate who is GOP-lite and has nothing to offer people other than half-assed ideas that capitulate to the right.

You want Bernie supporters to GOTV for Hillary should Hillary be the nominee but you know what, people are sick and tired of politicians in a system which has royally screwed people over and thrown them under the bus. On this very message board I have seen Hillary supporters throw Walmart workers under the damn bus and literally say that they should pull themselves up the bootstraps. You know what, it's disgusting!

You tell Bernie supporters that they should support someone who they downright can't stand & who they see as no different than Bob Dole and who has sided with many Republican causes, who has openly disparaged people including POTUS with a racist 3am ad? Who is constantly switching positions?

I want a winning lottery ticket too.

Blame yourselves for putting up a candidate who has sold her soul.

[Merryland]

53. amen. n/t

[serbbral]

102. No I am NOT wrong

My opinion just differs from yours. There is no wrong or right.

[pinebox]

149. This isn't an opinion

it's a fact that most of America finds Hillary untrustworthy

[serbbral]

157. You conveniently show the poll you want to show

But there is also a poll I saw on CNN and MSNBC that shows that Bernie AND Hillary would beat Trump when it comes to the general election. Nice try, though.

[jillan]

19. If Hillary wants my vote SHE IS GOING TO HAVE TO EARN IT, got it? Just because she has a D

next to her name does not mean she can take my vote for granted.

This is my country too, and no one has the right to tell ME who I should vote for.

[gcomeau]

22. Dear serbbral

I have been here since 2004. In EVERY election up until this one I have been the one making your argument.

This election it is, I'm sorry, not enough.


The difference is in previous elections we had no viable progressive alternatives on the ticket. No serious real progressives were ever allowed out of the fringe or broke a few percent nationally so every year I was right there with you. Be realistic! Who can get elected is who can get elected! It's not the party's fault the only options we have are centrists or people pulling the party to the right, we can't let the freaking GOP have the White House!


But this is the year. A progressive candidate with UNASSAILABLE credentials as a champion of our policies. Who has spent his entire life fighting for everything we want. And who can fucking WIN. GE polling show him as the *strongest* candidate running.


And the party establishment did everything in it's power to line up against him and box him out so Mrs Walking Personification Of The Status Quo could get it. In the insurgency anti-establishment election year. Shoving a centrist candidate down our throats who is further to the right than our current president.


And here's the bottom line. We've been going along with the "come on guys, at least they're not a Republican" excuses every year because the hope was always held out that eventually we would get a true progressive back in once we had one that was viable. But if the party establishment won't let that happen this year of all years... when every single star is aligned to make that successful... then the answer to when the Democratic Party will permit a progressive presidential candidate to be nominated is NEVER. Not unless things change.


And us all obediently falling in line knuckling under to the repeated-every-election threat that if it's not a little right it's a lot right so come on guys and hop on the "move a little right" bandwagon? That's changing squat. The only way this changes is if there are consequences.


So be it. Let there be consequences. If Sanders isn't the nominee I'm sitting this election out. Early on I was going to try to support Clinton if she was it, but after the continued flat out attacks on things like Single Payer fuck that. My voice will not be lent to supporting the anti-progressive. I will not be complicit in the continued corruption of the Democratic Party. I'm going to be sitting silent on the sidelines waiting to find out which of two bad options happens, and I'm honestly not sure which one is worse. A GOP presidency (whether it's Trump or not) will be fucking horrible for 4-8 years. But a Clinton presidency almost certainly means a continued rightward slide of the Democratic Party into GOP Jr for the next fucking 50. And which of those is worse? You tell me? Because I really don't know. But something has to change because I'm tired of the best case scenario being a bad one.


So the Democratic Party can reform, or it can kiss my support goodbye. It still has a slim chance to do the right thing by the convention. If not, see ya.

[serbbral]

38. @gcomeau

Great post! I feel you, I really do. I just don't think I can sit this one out but I feel you, because I kind of feel the same way. I just cannot take Trump.

[gcomeau]

43. Trump is hard to take.

But put yourself 20 or 30 or 40 years in the future looking back. Which would be harder to take? Remembering that dark period of President Trump way back when? Or looking at both major political parties in the United States being hopelessly right and corrupted by corporatism and voters having no viable options for representative government that actually gives a shit about them over the desires of their corporate sponsors because you couldn't stop supporting the "less bad" party no matter how much it kept marching in the wrong direction?


I can't do anything about the GOP. I can do something, however little and insignificant, about the fucking Democrats. By walking away and not being quiet about it if they don't put up the viable progressive in the mother of all anti-establishment election years.


If not now... never. You know it's true.

[serbbral]

73. Actually I don't.

[gcomeau]

93. Then you're in denial.

This year we had:

1. Historic anti-establishment sentiment.
2. A progressive candidate with IMPECCABLE credentials fighting for everything progressives want his entire life.
3. The strongest GE matchup polling in favor of that candidate.
4. Huge draw from that candidate on independent voters that could grow the party again.


And they went full court press and pulled out every stop to box him out to make sure the walking talking personification of the right leaning status quo establishment was going to get the nomination. A candidate MORE right than the Democratic president we elected 8 years ago.... what direction are we supposed to be making "progress" in again?



Under what circumstances, EXACTLY, do you see the party backing a progressive nominee if not this year..... if we don't FORCE them to do it? (And rewarding them for screwing us this year by throwing them our support is the exact opposite of forcing them to change, it's reinforcing they can keep doing this to us).



Go ahead, tell me when and how you expect them to suddenly turn left if we keep voting for them every time they move right.

[serbbral]

98. I'm NOT in denial. I just disagree. There is a difference.

[gcomeau]

99. Yes there is a difference.

Disagreement has reasoning behind it that could have answered my questions.

Denial doesn't.

[serbbral]

142. We are just going to have to AGREE to DISAGREE.

I did not mean to offend. I just hate to see people give the election to Trump and then later come on here to do what they are doing now, complain about his leadership and Presidency. Well, why complain? You helped to put him there. Now, THAT is DENIAL. DENYING that YOU (not just talking about you, but generally speaking for those who sit home) the absentee won't take part responsibility for giving the Republicans the election. I am no fan of Hillary Clinton, but I think her presidency would be a hell of a lot better than Donald's. I am sorry. I almost wish he would become our President, so that I can sit back and gloat and say, "Well, you got what you wanted."

[MelSC]

81. That's what Nader voters thought too...

They were wrong then and you are wrong now.

[gcomeau]

87. I don't give a shit what Nader voters thought.

Nader was never viable. Sanders was. He was not only viable put polling stronger in GE matchups thananybody.

And the Democratic Establishment put out a FULL COURT PRESS to shut him down.

That tells me everything I need to know about any inclination they have to ever turn left. And if you think differently you're fooling yourself. They. Will. Not. Change. Unless. We. Make. them.


Rewarding their behavior is the opposite of making them.

[MelSC]

92. Ever thought that just maybe

Hillary is truly the better candidate when you look at the broad picture? If they thought Bernie was the best they would support him. There's a reason Hillary is well liked and well respected.

[gcomeau]

94. I looked at the broader picture. And no.

And if you think Clinton's advantage was due to her being "well liked and well respected"..... wow.

[Impedimentus]

95. Nader, Nader, Nader, McGovern, McGovern, McGovern, Nader, McGovern - Enough of the broken record!

Nader, Nader, Nader, McGovern, McGovern, McGovern, Nader, McGovern,Nader, Nader, Nader, McGovern, McGovern, McGovern, Nader, McGovernNader, Nader, Nader, McGovern, McGovern, McGovern, Nader, McGovernNader, Nader, Nader, McGovern, McGovern, McGovern, Nader, McGovernNader, Nader, Nader, McGovern, McGovern, McGovern, Nader, McGovern.

We're sick of the BS and talking points about Nader and McGovern. You obviously have no understanding of those elections. Take a day off and go study election history, then you might stop displaying your lack of knowledge of election history.

Thank you,

[revbones]

39. Also, the country has survived

Reagan, Bush, etc... it will survive Trump or whoever the Republicans nominate.

Hillary can't win without independents and she isn't picking those up. Assuming the nominee is Trump, then it will be Hillary the Republican-lite candidate who is proven to be corrupt and a liar, and the strong anti-establishment Trump who's lies are looked over by his supporters as much as Hillary's are by her supporters, but is a strong candidate.

If we get Trump, Hillary's supporters will blame everyone but themselves when it's only theirselves they have to blame. So many of them are fooled that she's a paragon of virtue, they ignore the horrible truth about her as well as the fact that she is a weak candidate in the general election - especially so against Trump.

[serbbral]

153. @revbones

I am just curious. If you do not see Trump as President as such a bad thing, then why are you supporting Sanders? Why not support Trump?

[revbones]

154. I see Hillary as President as a bad thing.

Should it happen, we'll survive but I think she stands a good chance of losing to Trump.

Also, Sanders is honest and not corrupt like Hillary. Good enough for me.

[serbbral]

158. I do think Sanders is more real

However, they are ALL politicians. I think that is where folks become a little gullible. I think a Trump Presidency would be MUCH worse than Hillary's. The poor and middle class will not stand a chance.

[revbones]

163. One might argue

that we need to reach the bottom of the barrel for some people to wake up.

Even as corrupt as Hillary is, I'd like to think that Trump would definitely be the bottom. Given the ability for supporters of both Trump & Hillary to avoid reality and project whatever views they hold onto their candidate I don't see much changing in either case. If Hillary is elected I just see more of the same.

Personally, I don't see either of those choices as appealing. I won't vote for Trump and it's extremely unlikely I'd vote for Hillary.

[Silver_Witch]

110. Dear GOMEAU

Thank you for saying so perfectly what I have been trying to say for months. I have given more to Bernie then I have ever given to any candidate because I support him! Hell I am even going to to to training to phone bank for him. Even with working 60+ hours a week I am going to find time to do it!

I am a DEMOCRAT heart and soul. Always have been, always will be ! This party has gone too far right we must drag it back or every DEM Before us will roll in their grave from shame!

[revbones]

30. I'm betting that if Hillary is the nominee

We'll see a LOT of write-ins for Bernie Sanders.

Plus a slightly lower percentage of Democrats voting for her than Obama

Plus a significantly lower percentage of Independents voting for her

Plus a slightly higher number of Republicans voting for the Republican candidate because they HATE her.

Plus a significantly higher number of Independents voting for the Republican candidate because they HATE her, they hate the establishment, or she is just plain uninspiring.


Add all that up, to whoever you think will base their voting on fear of Trump or whoever the Republican nominee is, and will settle for the "lesser of two evils" yet again.

I think with all that, she stands an excellent chance of losing the general election.

[Shadowflash]

41. I'm guessing

That, If it's HRC vs Trump in November, some of the other parties are going to have better than the usual year.

I would NEVER dream of not voting and I would NEVER consider voting Republican or for someone who shares Republican values and has championed their ideas and policies.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

86. If your attitude prevails, I feel bad for the women in states like Texas and many others

[revbones]

132. Not enough apparently to vote for a candidate that would help them... nt

[CrispyQ]

46. With the exception of point 4, I agree with your assessment.

I think the number of repubs voting against HRC will be significant.

[Katashi_itto]

114. Agree

[WhiteTara]

131. and you sound excited by the prospect.

[revbones]

133. Do I harbor a resentment for Hillary?

Yes, I dislike Republicans - whether they have an "R" after their name or hide it.

[WhiteTara]

148. Sounds like it's Trump for you.

And if you think *co was bad, wait for the next shoe to drop.

[revbones]

151. "*co"?

Make your assumptions about how I will vote. I won't vote for Trump, and not voting for Hillary is not a vote for Trump either. 0 + 0 = 0

[HooptieWagon]

31. Back to the fear-mongering meme now?

Sanders supporters aren't buying it. Clinton is corrupt, a liar, a Warhawk, and will double down on Obamas Wall St friendly policies. That is every bit as abhorrent to us as a Trump presidency.

[-none]

44. And that begs the question...

How is voting for Hillary not a vote for a Republican. The same people are backing both.

Clinton is corrupt, a liar, a Warhawk, and will double down on Obamas Wall St friendly policies. That is every bit as abhorrent to us as a Trump presidency.

It is known that the Democratic Party leadership has backed Republicans and they are stacking the deck for Hillary? And we are suppose to vote for her because she is has a (D) be her name? Why aren't more people chocking on that fact?

[CrispyQ]

47. There are too many republicans in the party.

That (D) behind the name has lost it's credibility.

[WhiteTara]

130. except when they support Sanders, right?

He's said he's looking for cross over votes from the right. Also Elizabeth Warren was a republican before she was a democrat.

[HooptieWagon]

48. For me it's worse.

I'm in FL, we only had the presidential primary yesterday...the state and local primary isn't until August. But, the candidates backed by the DNC, if they all win their primaries (very likely), will mean the top of my Nov ballot will have the following "Democratic" candidates: Clinton for president, Patrick Murphy for US Senate, and Charlie Crist for US House....all former Republicans. WTF?! I haven't been a Democrat for 40 years just so I can vote for Republicans with (D)s after their names. After the Aug primary I'm leaving the Party. It's corrupt, and not worth remaining in. No longer represents my beliefs...hasn't for a while now.

[GoldenThunder]

34. If the party cuts its own throat...

....don't be surprised if I just stand there and watch. Hillary might prevent a President Trump, but no way in hell does she prevent a cataclysmic economic collapse. And when the dust settles from that horror, don't be surprised if you happen to find that the fascists have taken power by force.

[Coincidence]

35. Don't the other 300 duplicate threads of this exact same topic suffice? nt

[serbbral]

42. @Coincidence

Then why read or comment on THIS one? LOL!

[MoonRiver]

40. Those "Democrats" don't care.

Nuff said

[Punkingal]

49. Vote or stay home...no one will know how many do stay home.

But every single one of us on Bernie's team will be blamed when she loses, and she will, even if we swore on the life of our kids we voted for Hillary.

[Betty Karlson]

50. It is your fault you won't cross the bridge Hillary burned down!

Third Way logic, I guess.

[blm]

51. I feel the same as you. Not voting should NEVER be seen as the answer.

It's just wrongheaded, no matter what the reason. I have known people close to death who still took the effort to vote via absentee ballot.

Not voting is an insult to all those killed and whose heads were cracked open marching a path to the voting booth.

[dana_b]

52. and I say

BULLSHIT!!!!

It's YOUR fault and all of your buddies who vote for a pro war, pro big banks, pro Wall Street, pro NAFTA/TPP, DOMA/DADT supporting, lying HACK!!

WE are warning you NOW that she will lose in November and it will be entirely YOUR fault!!!

We no longer will be threatened and told to pick between shit and crap. We have the first truly progressive candidate in 50 years and you guys want to stomp him out. Well bully for you bbut you can keep your corporate crap love fest to yourselves!!

[djean111]

55. Awww, another pledge-y thingy -

off you go!

[dana_b]

56. good idea

I put about 100 on ignore last night. Time for more

[demwing]

57. Of course

It's never Hillary's fault.

Never.

[white_wolf]

58. No it won't be our fault!

It will be the Democratic Party's fault for nominating such a week and uninspiring candidate.

[BillZBubb]

109. Weak, uninspiring and loaded with negative baggage. A recipe for disaster.

[NowSam]

59. There is no Dem party left

it seems. The D and the R are both way too the right of anything we have ever seen in this nation and with hillary or trump even if we win we lose anyway.

Since the primary is only half over and Bernie can win this thing I will keep my focus on that and then the general when it is time.

[bkkyosemite]

60. NO! It's going to be YOUR FAULT if Hillary wins

[reflection]

84. .

[TransitJohn]

61. "Fans"?

What condesceding vapid tripe.

[serbbral]

70. Calm down

I did not KILL anyone. I've changed my title to 'SUPPORTER.' Feel better? Good. I supported Bernie. I do not get THAT hung up on titles. I get hung up on ISSUES.

[TransitJohn]

78. yeah, yeah

You're awesome in that you're not hung up on anything that matters to anyone else. You still showed a distinct lack of respect to millions of voters and political activists.

[serbbral]

101. I just don't think it is THAT big of a deal. Sorry.

Bad choice of words, but I did not do it on purpose.

[nadinbrzezinski]

62. And this is a symptom of what is wrong with the democratic party

and why it is about to split for real

[Buddyblazon]

63. I'll vote for her while holding my nose...

But if she loses...this all on Hillary supporters. Not Bernie supporters. It's a nice try at spinning your fears though.

[99Forever]

64. Nonsense.

If a party nominates a failing candidate, that loss is ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS. the fault of that candidate and that party, NOT THE VOTERS.

No one owns anyone elses vote.

PERIOD

[Maedhros]

65. I will not be bullied, coerced or shamed into voting for any candidate.

I will vote for the candidate that best represents my interests. If the Democrats want my vote, they will nominate a candidate with integrity and progressive ideals. If they don't, they won't get my vote - and it's the Party's job to earn my vote.

If the Party doesn't earn the votes necessary to defeat Trump, then the fault lies with the Party.

[Doremus]

67. If we end up with Trump it will be because Hillary Clinton fans

chose not to believe the legion of polls that said Bernie Sanders had a better chance to beat him. Suck it up and accept responsibility for totally ignoring the facts and plunging ahead with this candidate of yours. It is a repuke trait to deflect blame onto others.

After voting for PBO last time I promised myself it was the last time I'd vote for a corporatist and against my best interests. Will it be in my best interest to vote for the female corporatist or the batshit crazy male corporatist?

Neither. I'll be writing in the only candidate who could have offered any hope at all to the people, Bernie.

[pdsimdars]

69. Isn't this the argument every LOSER makes?

Namely, if you don't vote for me, I will lose, so it's YOUR fault if I lose.
Which is nonsense. As a candidate, you have to make your case and if you can't make that case, it is ALWAYS YOUR FAULT.
Arguments like yours sound like GOP double talk . . . we'll shut down the government if you don't do what we demand. . . so if the government is shut down, it's your fault.
Any 2nd grader knows whose fault it is.

[aikoaiko]

71. I've been told by HRC supporters that it won't really impact my life to have Trump win

You know, because I'm a privileged white person.

[MelSC]

74. I agree but you can't make people do what they don't want to

I just have faith that once the Clinton vs Trump stuff starts getting intense, people will come out in droves to vote for Hillary. Trump is a narcissistic con artist, and I honestly think the people who can't tell the difference between him and Hillary are lost causes. Let the chips fall where they may but we as a country deserve EVERYTHING we get if we let (by abstaining to vote for Hillary) and letting Trump be out POTUS...you know the person who represents our country to the entire world?
I'll be voting for her for sure 100%, I'd do the same for Bernie (and I am much more moderate than him). I honestly think Donald J Trump is dangerous.

[lumberjack_jeff]

76. It's awesome to go from irrelevant to having the future of the world on my shoulders in 3 months n/t

[reflection]

90. some of these responses are great.

Good one.

I love Bernie and wish he would get the nod. Can't stand the thought of Hillary, but I think she destroys Trump in a GE. Don't care what the polls say.

[nadinbrzezinski]

77. You are not helping

but do carry on

[serbbral]

100. Just stating my opinion that is all.

[nadinbrzezinski]

126. And it is a view that will suppress votes

Just stating my opinion

I truly know the conservadems want to rid themselves of the pesky left. But you still need them to get elected. The transformation of American politics is not complete. By 2020. Maybe 2024.

[serbbral]

136. That is what it is all about

It is all about stating ones opinion on a message board. You have a right to your opinion, just like I have a right to mine. You are preaching to the choir. We need everyone, that is all I am trying to say. We do not need people staying at home on election day. All I can say or ask is, why would anyone stay at home just to spite someone on a message board? How is that advantageous?

[nadinbrzezinski]

145. People will stay home

The reasons are complex. Some, we really have never looked into this, will do so from social media interactions as part of their reasoning.

I know from talking to many folks. This is born out by polling, as much as I do not trust them. The reason are complex, will either vote third party. In places like CA or MS it really does not matter. Those two are going blue and red regardless, or will vote for trump. The latter is a problem. The former could be seen as strategic to increase the voter participation that would allow the greens to take part in the GE debate in 2020.

Those voting for trump will matter though. They will be a far larger group than Jill Stein. Though in OH a few thousand votes could swing it, though unlikely And also from polling and past behavior I can call it now. Tens of thousands of conservadems will cross to vote for trump. They did for Bush and Reagan. What Trump is building is the Reagan coalition. So you need that pesky left to make up for these votes.

This kind of vitriol on a message board will have an effect. How much it is a good question. But it will have an effect. It already is.

[serbbral]

155. No offense

I guess I am different, because I am not easily influenced by others, but the more I get into politics the more I am finding out how others let others influence them. I just wouldn't let my anger for someone on a message board or someone I don't even know keep me from voting. Okay, you are doing something to spite me, but the republicans win (?????), setting things back for the poor and middle class people in need, but YOU and the republicans win, because you wanted to spite ME. Okay.

[nadinbrzezinski]

160. Oh I vote on policy

but some people are voting only on gender, others are voting on how other people treat them. This is a reality. (Hell my aunt, may she rest in peace, used to vote on whether candidates were tall and handsome)

By the way, the gender part, it breaks around 45 with polling... that does not mean I fit that stereotype of over 45, but I vote on policy.

I hope a political scientists actually looks into social media, becuase influencing friends and allies in person is a well known political tactic. Why campaigns ask followers to talk to friends and family. Why would that not be influential in social media? It is actually extremely silly to think otherwise. With all due respect.

I am a rarity, for god sakes I read city and county budgets!

But please proceed... I will just enjoy the show...

[Politicalboi]

80. It won't be our fault

It's theirs for supporting a weak candidate that can't help but lie ALL the time. I'm not staying home, I'm voting a dem ticket as much as I can, and I will either write in or vote Jill Stein.

The Clinton's cheat, and I can't go back. Her supporters say what they did wasn't against the law. Fine, it's against MY law. I see what they are doing, and it stinks. How can I vote for the one who cheated us out of our choice. Fuck it.

[ibegurpard]

82. this is a new and interesting viewpoint...

[JimDandy]

147. ...

[Earth_First]

89. I want a pony in exchange for my vote...

Or at least a deck of Air Force One playing cards!

[desmiller]

97. I will vote for Sanders, no matter what. If two evils are in the general election,

They will be denied.

[Jester Messiah]

104. I reject that, and to hell with that sentiment.

If you want to blame somebody, blame the people who forced a candidate on us that we can't support. Blame the Hillary campaign and the surrogates for attacking and alienating us. Blame the Hillary supporters, like yourselves, that demonize us and then demand that we fall in line.

If we get saddled with der Trumpenfuhrer, and you want somebody to blame, look in a mirror.

[Kip Humphrey]

105. IF YOU VOTE HILLARY IT WILL BE YOUR FAULT that we have DONALD TRUMP as our President.

just saying.

[PowerToThePeople]

107. You are completely wrong

If your candidate does not have enough votes to win, it is on your candidate.

Fail OP.

[DemocracyDirect]

111. Applause

The gig is up.

[Scootaloo]

112. No, it will have been the fault of a weak canddiate

Sorry chief. if you're already coming up with excuses for why your candidate loses to Trump, you gotta admit you think her chances are pretty bad. Primaries an't even done yet and you're already trying to divert blame from the fact that she's a hideously unappealing candidate whose one and only merit or accomplishment is "I'm not trump!"

[Katashi_itto]

113. Sorry not moved in the slightest by your "argument"

[serbbral]

123. I am not surprised......

It is ironic that folks are doing the same thing they complain about in Congress. My way or else and NOBODY wins or gets things done.

[LWolf]

119. And I say BULLSHIT.

If the Democratic Party chooses a nominee that can't win in November, it is the fault of those who nominated her. It is the Democratic Party's pattern to nominate establishment/neo-liberal candidates that so many have to use clothes pins to vote for, if they do so at all, and then start the bullying into line process and the blame game. The blame game starts before the primaries are even over. "If you don't vote for this person that you don't want to vote for, it will be ALL YOUR FAULT WHEN SATAN WINS!!!"

Again: BULLSHIT. If the party is determined to present Hillary Clinton in November, despite knowing that Sanders is more electable in November according to all polls, that she is disliked and distrusted outside of her own party enough that she won't get cross over votes, that she is disliked and trusted within her own party that she'll lose some of the Democratic vote, that the opposition will be putting up a candidate who is rising on the tide of discontent in the nation, while Clinton's Democratic Party is working to hold back that tide...if that is what the Democratic Party is determined to do, then a loss in November is the fault of those who bulldozed down this path of destruction, not those who didn't march along behind the bulldozer.

Disclaimer for juries and mods: I am not now, and will not be, stating whom I will not vote for in November, nor suggesting what others should do.

[bigwillq]

120. I never stay home.

Thanks for being concerned about me.

[serbbral]

125. @bigwillq

Thanks.

[Jarqui]

128. There was a percentage of Hillary voters (PUMAS) that would not vote for

Obama - about 14%?

I can appreciate what is being said about not wanting Trump

I've seen some poll claim 19% of Bernie supporters say they won't vote for Hillary

Some of this is because of Hilary's tactics: the lying and the deceit. You reap what you sow.

Personally, I could never support Trump or the GOP. Never.

And I have not completely given up on Bernie. Slim odds.

But I'd suggest that it's Hillary job to get off her fanny and convince these voters to support her.

I don't think blaming the voters is going to her or them much good.

[Cosmocat]

140. What can she do to "convince voters?"

Seriously.

Real or not, the impression is that she is dishonest, and she gets vilified no matter what she does.

So, any statement or action is treated as a political calculation and dismissed as not being genuine.

She is who she is ...

1) A warmed over politician
2) A moderate democrat generally
3) Comfy with big money
4) Somewhat hawkish

Big schism between her and Bernie policy wise.

But, while people can project how awesome he would be in the general and how bad she will be, the simple reality is that in order to be on the ballot in the general you gotta win the primary.

End, of the day, its going to be Hillary v whoever the Rs put on the ballot.

The same schism separating Bernie and Hillary is going to be the schism separating Hillary and whoever that is.

It simply is what it is.

[Jarqui]

156. You're probably right in that it's tough

I know for the very reason you mention: her dishonesty, she couldn't win over me because I cannot rely on what she says. But I am a liberal-progressive forever, hate what the GOP has turned into, so I have to hold my nose, dry heave and support the Dems. I will never admire her as a president - I'm at the point I can't listen to her for long. It's grating like a long chalk squeak. Have to mute it. Never felt that way about a Dem candidate for president ever.

However, she might reach some. Maybe finding a way to make the argument that she is better than the Republican's candidate - in a nice way - execute that trying a little charm and try to dull the chasm between her and Bernie on some policies. I think she has to ask for the support. I don't think she has much to lose.

[JimDandy]

129. Hmm, a Bernie supporter's very first thread is to admonish his supporters to vote for Hillary.

Right.

Ignore.

[serbbral]

139. You can put me on ignore if you'd like, but....

I voted for Bernie in SC. You can believe it or not, but I am being honest. I am just someone who is concerned about people giving the election away to Donald Trump.

[JimDandy]

144. I will serbbral

because Sanders supporters talk about nominating Sanders, not Hillary.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

135. I solemnly promise not to vote for Trump.

Or, Hillary.

[ruralsteve]

137. swerbral, thanks for your thoughts

I'm a committed Bernie supporter, and I haven't given up on his earning the Democratic presidential candidacy, and even if that becomes impossible, I want every Bernie supporter to get a chance to vote for Bernie in their primary, no matter how close to the convention it is.

But also this isn't my first rodeo. Most of my first choices did not become the Democratic presidential candidate, much less president. Eugene McCarthy, Paul Simon (Sen for Illinois, not the entertainer), Jesse Jackson, Tom Harkin, Dennis Kucinich, and others I favored never got to run for President against the Republican candidate. However, it would have been an unmitigated BETRAYAL of everything my favored candidates stood for, had I stayed home on the November election day and, by my absence, cast a vote for the likes of Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan, or either of the George Bushes!

So, because I am dedicated to what Bernie stands for, if he is not the Democratic candidate in the fall, I will support the next best choice to save the country from the extremist perversity and bankrupt morality of the Republican Party (whatever they might be calling it by that time). Remember, that Hillary is Bernie's second choice as the Democratic presidential candidate, too, at least among those who are running.

[serbbral]

138. Thanks.

[KPN]

146. How about we wait till someone actually wins the nomination

and then have this discussion?

[ozone_man]

150. A vote for Clinton means endless war.

It would be a tough choice to vote for endless war or the issues Trump has. I'd rather not have to choose and get Bernie elected.

[Lazy Daisy]

152. This keeps being said but

Why is it always Bernie supporters who are at fault?
Why is it never Hillary supporters fault? Why do they continue to support a candidate who has such high unfavorables? Why do they continue to support a candidate that is shown won't win against most GOP candidates or at best win by a squeaker (as long as the Bernie supporters get in line)

Why do they support a candidate who the GOP has promised to start impeachment on inauguration day. (never mind there won't be valid reasons for impeachment, we'll spend millions trying to keep her in The White House) The Clinton Defense Fund will be up and running once again, while the taxpayers spend millions on frivolous GOP led law suits. Money that could be better spent on so many things needed in this country.

No, it's not the fault of Americans who don't believe in Hillary Clinton if she is not elected President. Just as we're told time and time and time again about the AA community and Bernie, the vote wasn't earned so it's the candidates fault for not earning it.

The Republican Party is hopefully learning a lesson this election cycle. They forced Mitt Romney on their party last time, this time the party is imploding. Too bad the Democratic Party isn't learning by example. It's not too late though.

[dana_b]

159. I don't know Daisy

it makes NO sense to me. Because they really like HER as a person?? I don't know and that's okay. Just keep pushing for Bernie (I think you're for Bernie anyway) and try not to let this place get to you.

Seriously outside of DU, there are a lot of pro Bernie folks. twitter, FB are full of them. Not all places are as negative as this.

[Hiraeth]

162. your concern is duly noted

welcome to ignore.