The constant insulting of Obama by Bernie supporters

[Onlooker]

When I read threads critical of the United States' Libya , Hondurus, TPP, and other foreign affairs policies, you'd think Hillary was President. But the fact is she was an important voice in the Obama administration, but ultimately it was her job to carry out the President's policy, one that surely included many voices. The implication of these threads is that Obama maybe wasn't smart enough to weigh the arguments or assertive enough to direct his Sec'y of State. The fact is Obama is responsible for the decisions made during his term. He certainly factored in Hillary's thinking, as he does Kerry's, but ultimately they carried/carry out his instructions.

Personally, I think it's been a really good foreign policy, especially given what he inherited. We'e certainly calmed things down in terms of our relations with Iran and even North Korea; we've kept Putin reasonably sane; we took the big risk of embracing the young and the progressive in the Muslim countries by supporting the Arab Spring; and we've expanded relations dramatically with Africa and Asia. Overall, America's place in the world is much better than it was under Bush. Obama healed many of the rifts we had with other nations. Obama deserves the credit, but the both Hillary and Kerry deserve credit for implementing the policies of Obama.

I think Bernie supporters would be wise to stop marginalizing Obama's role in world affairs by attacking Hillary for his policies.

[Ed Suspicious]

1. The critique is distasteful to you, but the bad policy decisions are A OK.

[Lizzie Poppet]

24. "the way many Bernie supporters defend ISIS and Qadaffi"

What the actual fuck?!? That's possibly the most ridiculous piece of anti-Bernie slander I've read yet (and that's saying a hell of a lot).

[Onlooker]

28. Well, we shouldn't have supported the overthrow of Qadaffi ...

... and we should leave ISIS alone. I've read that in many threads.

[Lizzie Poppet]

30. Ah, so you equate anti-war views with being pro-ISIS.

Are you sure you're at the right site?

[Onlooker]

38. Obviously ...

... We should not sit back and let a bunch of lunatics slaughter people. Obama's policy with regard to ISIS is very good and very reasonable. Hillary is more hawkish than Obama and Sanders less hawkish. I do not support Rand Paul or Sanders with their libertarian world policy message. The great liberals have been willing to intercede for humanitarian reasons. I support that. Doing nothing is pro-ISIS.

Or are you saying the belief that Hillary will do nothing about Wall Street is not pro-Wall Street?

[floriduck]

47. Uh, we are not Electrolux but

We've have now created two vacuums in Iraq and Libya.

[Onlooker]

52. Obviously Iraq was a disaster

I marched against the Iraq War like I'm many did in this forum. But, what do we do with Afghanistan and Iraq once we've created a situation? Do we leave the relatively progressive people there as sitting ducks? There is no easy answer. And Libya is not worse off. It is in a state of transition. Progressives in Libya have more power than they ever did under Qadaffi. Will they be able to develop and build lasting institutions? That remains to be seen. The Arab Spring brought a new dimension to the region, but the political revolution there is far from over. At any rate, the good news for you is that Trump agrees the region would have been off if we didn't support the Arab Spring and let Qadaffi stay in power, so keep that in mind if Hillary wins the nomination.

[floriduck]

57. Whenever the US has triggered or caused a regime change,

it requires a long term investment in maintaining peace and trying to help establish a democratic government. Our success rate has been miserable at best. We went into Afghanistan with a purpose of tracking down bin Laden. The whole country agreed with that move. Then W and his band of warmongers decided to try revenge on Saddam Hussain. There was no good reason for doing so. That was vacuum one.

Momar Gaddifi was a piece of crap but we had no business getting involved in that mess, anymore than we would getting into a war with North Korea or China. But your candidate talked President Obama into getting aggressive and low and behold, we have vacuum number two.

[Onlooker]

59. We should have never gone into Iraq, obviously

We should have never gone into Afghanistan. It made things worse for the people there. We need to support self determination to the extent possible. But, the Arab Spring was a unique opportunity. It was a wonderful thing even though it's gains were marginal. For the first time in decades, moderates and progressives in the Middle East realie they have support, they have power. Maybe they don't now have enough to gain power, but they are now a voice in the ME. That's as wonderful for them as Bernie is for social democrats in the US (and I do support Bernie's, but primarily because of his domestic policy).

[pangaia]

77. POST OF THE DAY !!!

I just saw it...

[Politicalboi]

33. No, it' if we didn't kill Qadaffi

We wouldn't have ISIS. I agree with that. If we didn't have the Iraq war we wouldn't have ISIS either. Only inexperienced people voted for that in 2003. Even I knew from my couch Saddam didn't have WMD's, but Hillary couldn't bother to investigate. No money in that.

[scscholar]

31. Why pretend to act like you don't know that's true?

That's not a very effective technique.

[Lizzie Poppet]

34. Why don't you pretend to have principles and stop calling people liars.

Unforgivable insult...off to ignore with you before I burn my last hide and say goodbye to jury selection for a while.

[mylye2222]

85. "Berners defends ISIS and Ghaddafi"....

Far Right shitty statement.
Just like BUSHIES saying anyone wasnt with them and their Crime Administration wad a terror supporter!

[Autumn]

2. .

https://gfycat.com/ImprobableDeficientItalianbrownbear

[TCJ70]

3. So, is there anything that Hillary CAN be criticized for?

Being critical of Hillary is now being critical of Obama because she was SoS? Where does it end? I'm sorry she made bad decisions, but to say they can't be brought up because Obama was president is really, really weak.

[Darb]

10. Good grief, how weak.

You bernies just cannot stop insulting people. Give it a try. Maybe you can swing somebody your way.

[Lizzie Poppet]

14. Wait...you actually think I'm trying to sway Hillary acolytes HERE?!?

Like any GD: P shitshow regular is going to budge an inch.

[Darb]

20. Then why all the negativity?

All the teabagger blather repeated here daily is just for kicks and giggles?

I don't get it.

[Lizzie Poppet]

21. "teabagger blather"

And you actually have the nerve to ask "why all the negativity?"

Fucking priceless...

[Darb]

48. I have never attacked Bernie once. Not one single time.

The same cannot be said of many of the bernies. If you are not trying to change minds then why drag out all the old tired bagger bullshit. Like you phoney quid pro quo bullshit regarding the Clinton Foundation?

The baggers make those claims, why do you?

[Lizzie Poppet]

25. Let me give you another example, from just upthread:

"the way many Bernie supporters defend ISIS and Qadaffi"

See why I might be just a wee bit inclined to take off the gloves?

[Darb]

50. pashaw. Bernie supporters are not Bernie.

I have never attacked the man. On the contrary, I often say how much I like the guy. Yet all day long we have to put up with your phoney, baggeresque drivel about the Clinton foundation, the emails, the benghazi fraud, you name it.

Stop doing it and maybe you could have a better experience.

[Politicalboi]

39. Teabagger??? Is that you Bill?

Yes the Clinton people are Teabaggerish for sure. Teabagging as in soliciting for your wife at the polls.

[Darb]

51. Gumby-like reach there.

Or a shark jump. You choose.

It's the bernies that spew forth with bagger conspiracies all day, every day. Start with the email fraud and move to benghazi and beyond.

[840high]

45. She made quite a few bad decisions.

[hollysmom]

4. excuse me when did having to agree with everything every democrat ever did

become a requirement on this board? I can't seem to find it in the TOS.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

5. Right. She was "just following orders" and had nothing to say.

[Lizzie Poppet]

8. Hillary Schultz.

[JonLeibowitz]

13. I see NOTHING!!!

[HooptieWagon]

7. Criticizing failed foreign policies is insulting Obama?

Wow.

[Jitter65]

9. Failed? It usually takes a decade or more to know the final result of a foreign policy.

A country undergoing political upheaval usually has at least 10-20 years before it can be labeled as a "failed state."

Is Vietnam a failed state? Is Cuba?

[NWCorona]

15. That's a nice jump you did there

Yes Libya was a foreign policy blunder.

[PeteSelman]

23. So, maybe Bush and Cheney were right?

When the Chimp said history will decide and we'll all be dead he was actually being a visionary.

Nice.

[Human101948]

54. Yes, Vietnam is a failure...for the United States

which propped up thuggish dictators and tormented and killed tens of thousands of the people there for a decade and still ended up with the same result as if they had done nothing.

[cherokeeprogressive]

61. Didn't take a decade for Libya to become a failed state, now did it?

[truedelphi]

76. Libya is failed. Syria is failed. As was Vietnam. Any time the USA destroys the

Village to save the village, rational people call the policy a blunder!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

11. There is no worse heresy than that the office sanctifies the holder of it. Lord Acton

[truedelphi]

79. Great quote. Thanks for putting it up. n/t

[arcane1]

12. Neither Obama nor Clinton are immune from criticism. Kim Jong Un is.

I'd prefer being able to voice my opinion.

[uponit7771]

18. Hateraid type bashing isn't critique

[arcane1]

26. The OP is about being critical of foreign policy. Fair game n/t

[uponit7771]

16. Sanders associated his campaign with someone who called Obama "n-word-izzed" Cornell West, then

...in 2012 called for Obama to be primiaried multiple times and called him weak and rightward.

I don't expect too much different out of his supporters

[Bluenorthwest]

29. Obama used as surrogate Donnie McClurkin, who called LGBT people vampires and child killers while

urging his followers to take off the gloves and got to war upon us. He did this on the 700 Club, a national TV show. Obama surrogate. Michelle said he is her favorite gospel artist, a guy who calls gay people vampires. What do you make of that? Should I see Obama supporters as being much like the Rev Donnie McClurkin, Hate Preacher and Obama surrogate?

Hypocrites are the worst of all humans.

[uponit7771]

32. If Obama had a history of bashing LGBT I'd say it was in tune with how he feels. Sanders DOES have

... a history of bashing Obama so that can be said about him.

false equivalence noted

[Bluenorthwest]

43. Hypocrisy noted. When Obama used hateful surrogates his own history of speaking about LGBT was

not very good, he was all 'I am a Christian they are not sanctified, God is in the mix'. He opposed our right to marry, and that's bashing. He said his God agreed and that's bashing. He hired bashers to bash us to pander to those who like to bash us. That's bashing.
He was new to the Senate, known to oppose our rights and he hired surrogates who attacked LGBT citizens with hate speech.

Your attempt to defend such a thing demonstrates your own giant sized hypocrisy. Double Standards suck.

[uponit7771]

64. Unnnnnn I don't see Obama holding an antagonistic view of lgbt for years

...I don't know where your getting your info from but they're not quotes like Sanders has been in his years of basing Obama

[haikugal]

60. Cornell West was correct and expressing his opinion. We still have the semblance of a democracy.

I will stand with Brother West any day.

[uponit7771]

65. See... I don't expect much different from Sanders supporters

[haikugal]

67. That's because you obviously don't understand what Brother West, a black man, was saying.

So sad.

Cornel West appeared with Poppy Harlow just ahead of Nikki Haley's announcement about the removal of the confederate flag from the statehouse grounds. He had some particularly strong words to say about white supremacy and how President Obama has dealt with issues of race.

"A niggerized black person is a black person who is afraid and scared and intimidated when it comes to putting a spotlight on white supremacy and fighting against white supremacy," West explained. "So when many of us said we have to fight against racism, what were we told? 'No, he can't deal with racism because he has other issues, political calculations. He's the president of all America, not just black America.' We know he's president of all America but white supremacy is American as cherry pie."

CORNEL WEST: You can't talk about wealth and inequality, you can't talk about education, you can't talk about massive unemployment and under employment and you can't talk about drones being dropped on people in other parts of the world without talking about white supremacy and its ways in which it operates. It doesn't have to be overt. The president is right about that.

But too many black people are niggerized. I would say the first black president has become the first niggerized black president.

CNN ANCHOR: What do you mean by that?

WEST: A niggerized black person is a black person who is afraid and scared and intimidated when it comes to putting a spotlight on white supremacy and fighting against white supremacy. So when many of us said we have to fight against racism, what were we told? 'No, he can't deal with racism because he has other issues, political calculations. He's the president of all America, not just black America.' We know he's president of all America but white supremacy is American as cherry pie.

We're talking about moral issues, spiritual issues, emotional issues. White supremacy has nothing to do with just skin pigmentation, it has to be what kind of person you want to be, what kind of nation we want to be. Democrats and Republicans play on both of those parties in terms of running away from the vicious legacy of white supremacy until it hits us hard. Thank God for Ferguson. Thank God for the young folk of all colors. Thank God for Staten Island and fighting there. Thank God in Baltimore, now the precious folk in Charleston.

http://crooksandliars.com/2015/06/cornel-west-obama-first-niggerized-black

To think there are those here who would slander Brother West for pointing out the obvious.

[uponit7771]

68. I am black and not only do I understand start overtly petulant relationship with Obama because of

... Stupid tickets I understand West whole strand of thinking when it comes to Obama; dickish

Anyone who thinks West is lobbing any fair criticism at Obama doesn't understand his childishness

[haikugal]

71. Oh yes the "West is just jealous" reasoning.

He is talking about many things but it isn't about jealousy. We all watched Obama pivot after his election...as hard as it was to watch it wasn't hard to see.

Corporatocracy.

[uponit7771]

72. not jealous just stupid and entitled and "we" all did not watch Obama pivot "we" watched a ...

... historically gerrymandered gop congress shape policy.

the Obama bashers, including Sanders, wants to act as if that congress is of no affect on Obomas policies

[haikugal]

73. There has been no clarity on Obama's policy.

The first thing he did at his inauguration was have a hateful gay basher give the invocation. I couldn't believe it. I wanted to believe it was a fumble, a bad call and continued to hope he was who we all thought he was. It was not to be. By 2010 it was clear.

I think that was West's point. Where was the activist? The guy who would work for us and push back against TPTB? He was given every excuse but there comes a time that you have to accept he is who he appears to be.

There are good things that can be said as well but Obama doesn't have our backs when push comes to shove. That's another of West's points. The black liberal leadership have sold out...

Sanders is talking about the things that need to change that Obama never mentions. These are changes that need to be made NOW...the Obama's are secure and are very leisurely when it comes to the situation millions of Americans live with daily. I don't find that admirable.

Bernie has our backs and he isn't afraid of anybody. He speaks up and pushes back.

He would be a huge improvement to the last 30+ years.

If you think that's bashing then maybe you should sit this out because you may be too sensitive. Change is hard. No one has ever said it wasn't. It requires courage and stamina, clear vision and a willingness to stick your neck out. Most of our 'civil servants' seem to only have their hands out for that huge cash reward from their owners.

[uponit7771]

86. The 'activist' continued with OFA, what the fake activist like Sanders expected was for Obama to be

... a cause leader and president of America at the same time, that's not clear thinking.

Obama asked for help .......... MULTIPLE...............times and there were multiple occausions were fake activist like Sanders is turning out to be to step in and lead but no Sanders couldn't even lead a revolution towards single payer in his own damn state!!!

Sanders does NOT speak up and out to the MIC and Gun Corps, I'm not a LIV... his records on those two are slightly less abissmal than anyone else.

What Sanders is great at is convincing people that congress doesn't matter in order to bash those that are currently in power in the DNC due to the fact its an out of perspectve or half truth of why we have policies we have right now.

Lead a true revolution and get us an FDR congress that will shape and FDR president seeing the consitution MEANT for congress to hold the greater power.

[Number23]

74. You're just mistunderstanding "Brutha" West! What he said wasn't actually stupid and offensive

You just misunderestimating the "brutha" and if you were black you'd know that!1!one

Whooops! You actually ARE black??!

?resize=480%2C268

[Bluenorthwest]

19. obama is a grown up politician who can speak for himself

What do you think, he needs you to speak for him? Why would you think that?

[Live and Learn]

22. What wil you do when we are all gone? nt

[hrmjustin]

35. Where are you going?

[H2O Man]

27. Respectfully disagree.

I think that everyone is able to tell the difference between President Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton. There are people who find SoS Clinton's record troubling. That is a valid topic, and it is a n error in thinking to pretend these concerns are "anti-Obama."

I am a supporter of Senator Sanders. I also support President Obama. Disagreeing with him on specific polices is not "disloyalty" (my word, not pretending it is your's). Indeed, President Obama requested that Democrats let him know when they disagreed with him.

I'm glad that I invested time, money, and energy in both of his presidential campaigns. Still, I contact the White House, to express my disagreement with him on several issues. However, I have contacted the White House far more often, to express support.

I believe that I am a fairly average Sanders's supporter.

[Kittycat]

36. Lol. I voted for Obama twice. If there's a policy I care to disagree with

That's my right. However, he's not up for a third term. So while there may have been stances Obama took I supported, that doesn't mean I marched in step on everything, or don't want to make changes, improvements or go in a different direction this time. You don't get the right to criticize me on that. Disagree, debate - yes. Otherwise, thanks for your concern.

Eta: Just so we are clear. I have never supported Hillary. And I thought it was a monumental failure of Obama to
Let her anywhere near his administration. To an extent, I chalked it up to keeping your enemies close. But even after he let her in, it's become clear that she went against his orders and operated outside of the law. Whether she'll ever be held accountable to that, who knows. But the evidence is clear.

[CharlotteVale]

69. +100000

[EndElectoral]

37. I love FDR, but I'll insult him regarding his incarceration of Japanese-Americans during WW2.

Just because I might like what a President does overall doesn't negate my ability to disagree with policies I strongly disagree with. Marching blindly on toward a flawed policy just because he is a Democrat is not what I signed up for.

Ask what LBJ faced during the Vietnam War. LBJ got Civil rights passed, Medicare, Medicaid, fantastic Great society programs, but most Democrats disagreed with his escalation of Vietnam.

You can like a President and still strongly disagree with him. We are not Republicans. We are open to dissent. At least I hope we still are.

There are things to disagree with on Obama, and lots of things to like.

[Onlooker]

40. I'm not against the dissent ...

... but the way the dissent is expressed as if Obama was a wallflower in the process is disturbing.

[BreakfastClub]

42. People have been blaming women for everything since Adam and Eve. nt

[EndElectoral]

49. btw...Libya , Hondurus, TPP, and other 'certain' foreign affairs policies should all be criticized

[BreakfastClub]

41. What I find so fascinating about the whole thing is that

people (maybe some of the same people?) acted the same way about Obama in '08 that they do about Bernie. Obama was the second coming, he was "pure," he was going to change the country, change the world! No matter how much sense you tried to talk into them, they couldn't see that Obama was and is a moderate establishment democrat. I think just about any candidate would disappoint this type of supporter. Yes, even Bernie would because the reality of politics is compromise, and they don't seem to want any of that. It reminds me of another group...

I also believe, contrary to this group's assertions, that Hillary is slightly to the left of Obama, especially on women's issues and health care. If you remember, Obama fought AGAINST mandatory coverage, and his supporters in '08 righteously defended Obama's stand on the issue. Hillary, of course, was right about that and many other things. She simply knows her stuff more than Obama regarding health care. Obviously. It's been a key interest of hers for decades. Hillary is also much more aggressive than Obama in dealing with republicans. She knows what scum they are and she knows how to fight them. Obama folded like a cheap suit over and over. it wasn't until the gov't shutdown that he seemed to make a stand against them. Talk about disappointing! Hillary, should she be president, will compromise when she has to, but fight them tooth and nail whenever the situation calls for it. Obama just didn't do that. He didn't fight for us enough, IMO.

So I want a fighter and an experienced democrat in the WH. And that person is Hillary Clinton for me.

[UglyGreed]

44. LOL

[840high]

46. Unrec. Another fail.

[Live and Learn]

53. ROFL So criticizing Hillary is now criticizing Obama. I see.

What a strange place this has become.

[tblue37]

55. I'm a Bernie supporter, and I admire Obama. In fact, here's a short clip of our

president pointing out how much he has achieved despite GOP obstructionism. Enjoy!
:
https://twitter.com/abedelrey/status/709159055726608384

[Jarqui]

56. I'm a Bernie supporter. I also think the world of Obama.

When John Lewis said what he did about Bernie, I was all over him. I've had great respect for John Lewis for fifty years. And I still do. He's a wonderful, brave hero and leader. But I also said at that time that no man is above criticism.

Barack Obama is one of my favorite people ever in the history of the world. I can't say enough good things about him. I don't like to see the cheap shots and racism he's taken. But I think Obama would be the first one to tell you that he is not above criticism and he wasn't perfect.

I have not weighed in on some of the foreign policy stuff because unlike some others around here, I do not know nearly enough about some of these decisions. In general, Obama executed much of what he laid out on foreign policy in Audacity of Hope. It was one of the reasons I'd admired him - because he'd really thought through his foreign policy. Hillary benefited from that because she got handed a pretty decent blueprint to work with when she came into office and I think she needed it to do the job. I do know Hillary was not the decision maker but she was an influencer so she is not without some responsibility.

However, I don't know enough specifics of some of the debates (ie Honduras) to know who is right or wrong or where responsibility should lie so I'll leave that to those who are better informed and I'll probably learn something.

[revbones]

58. I'm not sure the posts that you're talking about

But there are a lot of people that want the party to do better. Not being able to criticize someone or some policy just because they or the author has a D at the end of their name is crazy.

[RobertEarl]

62. Obama said no to invading Syria

Clinton wanted us to invade Syria, so Obama fired her and got Kerry to make peace. End of story.

[desmiller]

63. Every person has a right to criticize. It's good to disagree and criticize. That's why we

have discussions. Telling one side to stop criticizing doesn't make it go away. If you disagree with someone, discuss it and defend your position. You don't have to whine about it because someone, either a Bernie supporter or a GOP supporter, said something you disagree with. I'm a Bernie supporter and I approve this message.

[seabeyond]

66. I think Obama has been solid. And that with the obstructionist congress. Nt

[pdsimdars]

70. Posts like this are just like the right wing does to Obama. . .

Any time Obama mentions something that could be improved in America, they ask, "Why does he hate America?" IT IS RIDICULOUS!

Same thing here. It is the PATRIOTIC DUTY of citizens to tell their politicians when they are doing something wrong. It's also the duty of the media to challenge the administration, but they don't any more.

You should actually read and try to understand those criticisms. You may think it's been terrific what we did in the middle east, but others disagree. But to try to silence other people expressing their opinions . . that is BS, that is un-American.

[Warren DeMontague]

75. Hillary as head of the state dept. had no say in the response to the Honduran coup?

Really, then.

...why was she there at all?

Why not just have one of those little kiosks from amazon.com that could repeat Obama's words verbatim, and then stream music via bluetooth?

[Scootaloo]

78. I think you ought ot stop blaming Obama for Hillary's actions and decisions.

[Ken Burch]

80. Criticism of HRC as Secretary of State does not equal "insulting of Obama".

It's perfectly obvious that the president gave HRC control of foreign policy as the price of her support.

There were good things that happened in this administration's foreign policy, but none of those things vindicate the decision to do regime change in Libya or, at the very least, abet the overthrow of a democratic goverment in Honduras. Neither of those were needed and the hostility we showed towards Venezuela wasn't justified either.

[FlatBaroque]

81. Actually, the opposite of what you have said is the Truth

Hillary set up her own little faction of government. ergo the email system completely outiside of oversight. That's why no permanent inspector general was ever even considered over the State Department. That's why she solicited advice from a person BANNED by the Obama administration. Now why would such a loyal member of the management team blatantly ignore the directive of her boss? I don't know, maybe because all she was interested in was peddling influence by selling arms, which is why she accomplished less than ZERO as Secretary of State, slightly more than what she accomplished as Senator from New York.

[cherokeeprogressive]

82. The "constant insulting of Obama by Bernie supporters" is something you made up in the corners

of your mind.

Libya is a failed state. Syria is soon to be a failed state. You can blame whomever you wish.

And by the way... anyone who wanted "respect" for Obama would call him "President Obama". Check my posting history.

[redstateblues]

83. The bashing of our Democratic President that goes on here

Is reprehensible. Considering the obfuscation he has had to deal with, I think he has done a remarkable job.

[SMC22307]

84. ...is a myth. (n/t)