Chelsea says Mom will fix Obamacares high deductibles with tax credits.

[elehhhhna]

These ridiculous deductibles are a huge problem but paying it upfront and waiting for tax time for reimbursement won't solve it. My healthcare clients say people are foregoing care specifically because of the high cash upfront costs.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3508580/Chelsea-Clinton-s-shock-attack-Obamacare-s-crushing-costs-hints-mother-change-Democrats-key-policy.html

[Trajan]

1. Spoken like a Hedge Fund Financier ...

A woman of the people (on Wall Street) ...

[Baobab]

15. Premiums will rise and subsides must go away

though.

Subsidies of all kinds are trade distorting.

Foreign health insurers and healthcare providers are a crucial part of this plan and under the Clinton plan they need to be encouraged to come in, making single payer forever impossible to return to. (Because the new right to forever sell cheap services here will become a property right enjoyed by foreign corporations)

[Octafish]

53. +1

Gotta have a CPA to get through all the paperwork to get what should be a basic human right.

[pnwmom]

89. The full quote said Hillary would use Executive Action OR work with Congress

on tax credits.

And tax credits can be set up so they're deducted from payments -- they wouldn't HAVE to wait till April.

[FlatBaroque]

2. Just be thankful that another generation of Clinton is about to

lead the shit out of us.

[DanTex]

3. Today's dose of right-wing media.

[Human101948]

7. Chelsea didn't say it?

Tax credits are a right wing solution to benefit the wealthy while seeming to address the problems of the non-wealthy.

[DanTex]

8. Why the link to right-wing media then? Just for the right-wing spin?

[Wilms]

30. Go ahead, Dan. Point to the "spin".

The article is largely quotes and video. Where's the spin? Where's the "Conspiracy!", Dan?

[DanTex]

32. The spin is already there in the URL: "shock attack on Obamacare".

But go ahead, defend the right-wing media. It's fascinating that Bernie fans have such trust and even admiration for right-wing rags! Who'da thunk!

[Wilms]

42. I find Chelsea's "spin" shocking. Don't you?

She said Sanders wants to "dismantle" Obamacare. Are you OK with that?? Even the MSM cringed. You, Dan??

[DanTex]

43. Nope. But I'm not surprised that you have the same view as the right-wing press.

[Wilms]

44. Nice try, Dan.

So just to be clear, you're OK with Chelsea lying about Sanders' intentions? And you think quoting her puts me in line with "the right-wing press"? Is that right, Dan??

[DanTex]

45. It's not a "try"? You're defending the right-wing spin that the Daily Mail put on this story.

[Wilms]

49. No. I'm calling out Chelsea Clinton for being a liar...

...just like her Mom and Dad. And there's a ton of evidence...their own words...to support my assertion.

Got it, Dan? I AM calling the three of them liars. And it's a matter of public record.

Now, run along and play.

[DanTex]

52. You're justifying the right-wing spin from the Daily Mail. Plain and simple.

I get that you hate the Clintons, but you should find a way to hate them without justifying the spreading of right-wing media on a Democratic Forum.

[Wilms]

56. I do not hate Clintons. But I do not like liars.

There is no justifying the right wing. The ONLY thing I see being justified is you justifying lying.

That's a shame, Dan. You, the Clintons, and the right wing seem to have a lot in common.

Have you always justified liars, Dan? Or only certain ones?

[DanTex]

57. You're justifying the right-wing press, period.

Oh, and of course I don't justify lying. I just don't buy into right-wing smears like you do.

[Wilms]

60. Here's your liar, Dan!

Lying away, just like Mom and Dad, Dan.

[DanTex]

62. We know that you are seething with hatred towards the Clintons. Just stay away from RW media.

PS: the fact that you disagree with something doesn't make it a "lie."

[Wilms]

66. So you liked the video!

I knew you would, Dan.

Don't teach logic. Maybe intern for Brock. But do not teach logic.

[DanTex]

67. Meh. I don't care about it much.

Believe me, I get that you're not interested in learning logic.

[Wilms]

68. I'm surprised that you don't care about it, Dan.

Clearly, Chelsea is lying. But you don't care about that. You'd rather hurl insults at me for pointing the material out.

Gee, Dan. I don't know about that.

[DanTex]

69. Huh? Lie? Does Bernie not want to replace Obamacare with a Single Payer?

Oh, and LOL about the "hurl insults" quip.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511572648#post66

[Wilms]

75. ot what she said, now is it, Dan?

I realize you are just mis-speaking, but be careful. I would not want someone to think you are a liar like the Clintons.

[DanTex]

77. Umm, yes, it is.

[Wilms]

78. .

[DanTex]

79. You're good with the smilies.

[Baobab]

18. Third Wayers prevent bloodshed

They act as facilitators of an upward shift of capital to those who will use it more efficiently without any bloodshed.

[Kittycat]

83. Hahaha

That was sarcasm, right?

[Baobab]

88. I wish

After WWII we had a golden opportunity to make hanges that gave people rights to life and to basic human rights that we never took. Instead peoples rights come out of their country of citizenship and who their parents are and their marital status and a bunch of similar things that together dont add up to anything close to what they should be.

Meanwhile, exponentially improving automation is taking away what TPTB see as people's main benefit, their status as the cheapest supercomputer out there, as more and more jobs that previouslly could only be done by people become doable by computer..

So, in the final analysis either they - either we all are scientists and money makes less importance - is deemphasized by making the esentials top quality and free (already prohibited by FTAs) or they are just consumers. And people without money are seen as a negative to them.

People with low or increasingly no incomes will become worse than irrelevant politically because they wont live anywher and wont be able to vote, or if they have managed to hold on to a place to live they may be seen as a "dead weight" by increasingly bought and sold lawmakers. That's how the advertising industry has seen older people all along. According to "ad men" Ive known.

Trade deals basically take all the good things government could do off the table and replace them with explicit declarations that they cannot do those things.

[pnwmom]

90. Half of the sentence was left out. Didn't you read the article?

She said she would do what she could through Executive Action, OR work with Congress on tax credits.

And, FYI, tax credits can be set up so they're directly deducted from monthly payments. Just because they're tax credits doesn't mean they'd have to wait till April.

[UglyGreed]

63. Do you do anything other

than deflect and muddy the waters????

[DanTex]

64. The people muddying waters are the ones posting RW links on a Democratic forum for the

purpose of smearing the presumptive Democratic nominee.

[UglyGreed]

70. Your replies

are not just limited to RW links...........but of course you knew that already

[DanTex]

71. This OP has a RW link in it. It's fascinating that you're OK with that, but you're upset with

me for pointing it out.

[UglyGreed]

72. I'm just commenting

on your replies, I have noticed a pattern............

[DanTex]

73. So you're stalking me. OK. So how do you feel about RW links? Because that's definitely a pattern.

[Human101948]

4. Isn't lack of cash another "pre-existing condition?"

They always seem to work out a way to screw the "little people."

Tax credits are one of those Republican scams that end up benefitting the wealthy.

[Baobab]

21. Stop thinking in binary fashion.

Third Way is a bridge between all that.

For example, earning capacity in the future globalized service economy will be determined by objective and verifiable criteria.

i.e. education.

Firms are expected to locate wherever regulatory conditions are most favorable to them.

[Snarkoleptic]

40. Third way is comprised of conservatives and plutocrats infiltrating the Democratic party.

Nothing more than that.

[Snarkoleptic]

23. Indeed, single payer is long overdue.

?v=1422060938

[Csainvestor]

5. This is corporate welfare

The government already pays the insurance companies with ACA subsidies. This will transfer even more tax payer dollars to the for profit insurance companies.

This will not decrease costs, and even worse, it means tax payers will subsidize corporate profits.

[Baobab]

35. Big chunks of the ACA were enacted in violation of a standstill on financial services signed

in 1998, (Understanding on Commitments in Financial Service)

and health insurance is explicitly listed in the US's Schedule of Commitments as an included financial service, so there is no ambiguity, it definitely applies.

This was done to facilitate foreign investment (FDI) in our health insurance market.
They are what are called non-tariff barriers (NTBs) to trade.

Since they stand in the way of FDI they will be found to violate the standstill, and so "rollback" will kick in and roll them back to their state at the Understanding's signing in 1998.

[SHRED]

59. Local, State, and Federal Governments pay dearly already

By covering their employees.
The premium costs for the City I retired from were about 1,800 dollars per month, per employee.
Tax dollars pay this corporate welfare (extortion).

[Autumn]

76. We already are subsidizing corporate profits with the ACA.

I would much rather those subsidies we are paying for the ACA go into an existing government program like medicare. Medicare for all.

[Downwinder]

6. Tax credits don't do much good if you are low income.

I doubt she has that consideration. Bit of a disconnect there.

[NorthCarolina]

14. Of course it would do absolutely SQUAT for those most in need.

A "tax credit" still requires you to fork over the cash from your own coffers before qualifying for the tax credit the following year.

Clearly just a vacuous position. Bernie has the only plan that will actually HELP people.

[Snarkoleptic]

31. How to spot a plutocrat 101 - Tax Credits Solve Everything.

This guy tho...

[yourpaljoey]

41. It Will allow them to suffer in silence... while Hill munches her tender juicy Trump Steak

And that is definitely something.

[loyalsister]

27. It is to the advantage of some people to pay the penalty

For poor people whose jobs don't offer health insurance, taking a chunk out of their monthly income is more of a fiancial strain than paying the penalty. A tax refund a few months down the lines means nothing to a person having trouble paying their rent in November.

[nc4bo]

38. Ding Ding Ding! Fall thru the crack, a tax credit won't do jack!

[Kittycat]

85. Even when you have income.

We shelled out $3k, not including premiums, from 1/1-2/4, mostly for Pharma. Plus an extra $850 oop rework on a root canal. Tax credit wouldn't save me from the pharma vultures, or helped with the dental that exceeded my plan. Medicare for all and sanely negotiated med & pharma rates like all of the 30+ counties that rank ahead of the US, might have helped us though.

[Downwinder]

87. PNHP Single Payer.

I pay $400 a month from $1,000 a month Social Security
For Medicare, Medigap, and a Drug Plan. Still does not cover Vision, Hearing or Dental.

[pdsimdars]

9. Who can believe a word she says either

The first public statement she made about healthcare was to lie about Bernie's healthcare plan and smear him.
The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

[onecaliberal]

10. Tax credits DO NOT HELP POOR PEOPLE.

Out of touch! As we are all aware

[Baobab]

39. The most important thing is that the companies be profitable

The Constitution is clear that persons cannot be asked to quarter troops in their houses (which is interpreted as corporations or any business must be paid what they ask for things. All price controls in the US are legally challengeable and on shaky legal grounds in this country.

The only way Hillary could reduce costs apart from globalizing the provision of services (after all, its an emergency, isnt it?) were prevented in perpetuity by Bill's trade deal.

So kiss those high wage services jobs goodbye. We need to respond to these crises, dammit.

[Scuba]

11. She lied about Bernie dismantling Medicare, so she's probably lying about this too.

Besides, Hillary's "fix" wouldn't fix anything.

[Lizzie Poppet]

22. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

[Joe the Revelator]

12. The ACA is broken in the middle.This is a non-solution to a real problem

If a person can't put forward the upfront cash...then how does waiting for tax time help.

[longship]

13. A totally useless program for people who pay no taxes.

In other words, people too poor to pay taxes.

Healthcare for everybody, like every other modern country, is the only solution. A solution that Hillary Clinton will not support. She wants tax credits to buy health insurance from private companies instead of providing healthcare to everybody, tax credits which do nothing for those who still cannot afford insurance.

And Chelsea Clinton is as much a part of the problem as her mother and father. Entitled, wealthy, blind to anybody who isn't.

Screw them all.

[Kittycat]

86. Also totally useless for people without disposable income.

Many people pay for insurance just in case. That doesn't mean they can afford to use it.

[ibegurpard]

16. Jesus christ...

The people who can't afford high deductibles and out of pocket expenses aren't paying enough in taxes for tax credits.
Talk about tone-deaf.

[BernieforPres2016]

20. Chelsea said that she has never been able to bring herself to care about money

She doesn't care about paying bills. They seem to just pay themselves, including her $50,000 a month mortgage.

[andym]

25. Tax credits won't cut it-- but Chelsea understands that tax credits can be a source of income

and then the government will pay you, raising income.
http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/css/resource/income-tax-credit-for-low-income-working-individuals

[MoonchildCA]

26. Not to argue about the complete stupidity of the plan on all different levels,

But, you can receive a tax credit whether you paid taxes or not. It's a tax deduction that doesn't benefit. I know because back when I was a single working mom, I received an earned income credit of over $2000, when I owed virtually nothing in federal income taxes.

[EndElectoral]

17. Clueless. A Republican type of solution

[NorthCarolina]

19. It isn't JUST deductibles either, it's insurance premiums as well.

We ourselves have gone from the gold plan the first year, to the silver plan the following year, and now we have the bronze plan all due to rising premium payments every year. Next year we will probably be relegated to the Lead plan due to further premium increases.

I know Hillary supporters are wholly against a True Government healthcare plan like the one proposed by Senator Sanders because they are fervently against having the Government come between you and your doctor, but are they able to explain the true benefit of having a For-Profit Middleman between you and your doctor instead? How is that superior to a Government run system? If they can, I haven't seen it. If their criticism of Bernies plan is based on "access", well we already know that is a load of bunk. So what is it really? Why the need for a for-profit middleman in US healthcare?

[BernieforPres2016]

33. Same here

I am also in North Carolina and went from a gold plan to a silver plan when the premiums for the gold plan jumped 60-70%. My deductible went up from something like $1500 to $6000 last year. And I hit the jackpot, had my first flare up from Crohn's disease in 5-6 years and spent the full $6000 plus monthly health premiums last year.

[NorthCarolina]

36. Unfortunately we here in NC

are not in as good a position as States that have embraced the ACA, but the fact that states can even opt out if they choose is a huge shortcoming. Medicare for all single payer is what truly makes sense, and is unarguably the most moral position to take.

[BernieforPres2016]

24. The high deductibles cause many people to go uninsured and pay the fine

I was talking with a pregnant waitress at a local restaurant, probably in her early to mid 30's, late last year. I told her I had just gotten a flu shot and she was wondering if a pregnant woman should get one and what it cost. I told her that her health insurance policy would probably pay for it and she said she didn't have one, that it was cheaper to pay the fine. For somebody with little money, having an insurance policy with a $5000 annual deductible is like not having insurance, so why pay monthly premiums if the fine is cheaper? They just gamble that they won't get sick. If they get unlucky, a big medical bill will drive them into bankruptcy.

[hobbit709]

28. How many groceries will tax credits get you?

If you're grossing maybe $20K and have a high deductible that you can't afford to use, just what exactly will a tax credit do for you?

[onecaliberal]

54. Not a fucking thing, and that is the point.

[Ichingcarpenter]

29. Thank you Chelsea for promoting your mother's

dumb as shit solutions.

Got love the Clinton's rich man's solution for tax cuts and right offs for corporate poor people..

[Kip Humphrey]

34. And maybe my wife & I won't die before we're eligible for Medicare.

2 1/2 & 3 1/2 years to go. Fingers crossed.

[BernieforPres2016]

37. For those who haven't seen this Chelsea interview before

Chelsea has tried but can't bring herself to care about money. Of course, money seems to fall in her lap. $50,000 a month from NBC to do almost nothing, $300,000 plus stock options to attend a few board meetings a year at IAC, etc. And her hedge fund husband has a ready made clientele with investors like Lloyd Blankfein and other Goldman Sachs executives putting millions into his fund; and he only has to pay a 15% tax rate on his "carried interest" that is called ordinary income in any other industry and taxed at a much higher rate.

Doesn't everybody have a $52,000 per month mortgage?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-politics/10902554/Chelsea-Clinton-interview-I-will-always-work-harder-than-anyone.html

[whatchamacallit]

46. These are the kind of shit "solutions" we're going to get with a third way prez n/t

[Cobalt Violet]

94. they have no clue how the rest of us live.

[berni_mccoy]

47. That's a DO NOTHING solution. HSA/FSA are already tax credits for this purpose.

Insurance agencies are pushing hard to move everyone to high-deductible plan. That puts the load of paying for coverage on the taxpayer. Insurance is basically doing nothing and we may as well move to single payer.

[jeff47]

48. In addition to all the cluelessness about waiting a year to get paid back

Chelsea seems to think Republicans will pass a bill to strengthen the ACA. After voting more than 60 times to repeal it.

Who's the "realistic" candidate again?

[Prism]

50. *facepalm*

Have the Clintons ever met a poor person? Hell, I'd settle for working or middle class at this point.

[Fumesucker]

96. Dead broke when they left the White House don't you know

[revbones]

51. She also said Sanders wants to eliminate Medicare... nt

[PatrickforO]

55. Tax credits are traditionally a Republican answer.

Unfortunately it doesn't get at the actual root cause of the high deductibles, which is driven by corporate greed. This is why we should eschew Obamacare, which is basically a 1990s Heritage Foundation corporate welfare program for the insurance industry, and merely expand the Medicare system to provide care for all Americans instead of just those over 65. The structure is already there.

And for those who will read this and sputter something about 'unicorns,' I'll point out that between my employer and I, we pay 18.8% of my gross pay for shitty, rationed healthcare with growing copays, and huge deductibles in case I have to have surgery.

IF OBAMACARE IS SO WORTH SAVING, THEN WHY ARE WE STILL PAYING A GREATER PERCENT OF OUR GDP THAN ANYONE ELSE, AND NOT GETTING AS MUCH FOR IT???

Just asking...

[pinebox]

58. Here's the video!

I posted a thread about it very early this morning http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1571795 and got hammered by Hillary supporters who would rather attack the source despite Chelsea saying what she does on video. I always find that both amazing and hilarious. Some don't ever want to see the truth, ever.

[Vinca]

61. This is a silly idea.

A tax credit in April won't keep your credit from going down the tubes if you break your leg in July of the previous year and can't pay the deductible. Chelsea can explain this with a straight face because, as she's previously said, she's tried to care about money, but just can't.

[Autumn]

65. That's so stupid. Most people can't afford to put out money and wait months to get it back.

These pampered people have no fucking clue what life is like.

[Carolina]

74. What part of

this simple truth does she fail to comprehend: if people do not have the money to pay for the deductible, a tax credit means ZIP.

Insurance is not healthcare , and if people are struggling for basics like food and shelter, insurance may be too high even with the so-called ACA. Then, if one can squeeze in the cost of insurance, the deductibles make using the insurance for actual care WORTHLESS.

Chelsea is just as tone deaf as Momma $Hillary. She needs to STFU and go back to decorating her 6.5 bathrooms!

[arcane1]

81. That's Hillary's BIG LIE: That "universal coverage" is the same as "universal care"

It's a lie she tells every day.

[arcane1]

80. In other words, she LIKES high deductibles and don't care how they're paid.

Typical shill.

[Jester Messiah]

82. Tax credits. The Republican answer to everything! n/t

[SHRED]

84. Spoken like a true Goldman Sachs supporter that she is

[CharlotteVale]

91. Is she nuts? Sick people who aren't rich don't have time to wait for "tax credits."

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

92. Sadly, she probably sincerely believes tax credits will help.

They are, of course, very helpful for people who can afford to earn them and use them.

The term "Limousine Liberal" comes to mind.

[Cobalt Violet]

93. out of touch.

I'm sure she'll be running some day too.

[liberal_at_heart]

95. How about copays? My 21 year old college student daughter just got a $1300 medical bill in the

mail. How you going to help her Hillary? My guess is you won't.