2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumI love the Democratic Party, even the 'Establishment'
The party and the Establishment Democrats are all that stands between people who look like me, and the Republican party that would own my womb and put me back in chains. So, this thing this primary season where folks want to take down the Establishment and call for Bernie or Bust movements if Bernie does not win is deplorable to my eyes.
The people who will be hurt the most by taking down the 'establishment' are not the people who are so interested in Bernie or Bust. Some are, but most of us will vote for the party nominee- the chance of getting Trump is just too deadly and dangerous for those of us who have not the privilege in this nation to ever make these types of demands.
So, let's cut out the Bernie or else stuff and think about the fact that our real enemies are on the Right. Allowing them to take over just harms us marginalized people and it is horrible to allow us to come to more harm if people do not get the candidate they want. And please stop using Trump as a threat to get us away from Hillary. That is unfair to do to those of us who are already suffering.
And btw? The South does count. That is where many of us black voters have an ACTUAL say over who wins the contests. Not fair to marginalize us further.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)Jitter65
(3,089 posts)wildeyed
(11,243 posts)TMI? Well there it is. And access to good birth control is one of the things the GOP really wants to take away from us. That alone is enough reason to love The Establishment when it includes Planned Parenthood and NARAL.
And yeah, I live in the South. We are fighting hard here, and I do not appreciate it when my blue state brethren attempt to marginalize those efforts. I find it incredibly disloyal. They sit so pretty and pure in their white liberal havens. They should come down south to see what a real fight is like.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)The South is the bith place of the civil rights movement. People need to remember the struggle and stop telling us that those votes are not important.
You are right. What they are doing is dead wrong.
Iliyah
(25,111 posts)I'm also very proud to be voting for HRC.
My family came to California by way of Louisiana, Mississippi, Texas, Oklahoma. I still have family there.
I read a lot of history. One quote I like a whole lot "Power to the People". That quote reminds me of the Democratic Party and HRC.
"People", which means ALL OF US.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)And I got to cali by way of pennsylvania, kentucky, alabama, etc. Many of us have roots down south and do not look down on our brothers and sisters.
DesertFlower
(11,649 posts)and i voted for hillary. i'm in arizona -- originally from NY.
sheshe2
(83,763 posts)You are fearless.
I love you~
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)Historically, what happens when "The Establishment" is overturned is that it's replaced with another "Establishment"...and that replacement Establishment is quite often worse for "The People" than the Establishment it replaced.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)What would their establishment do to me? I do not want to know...
NanceGreggs
(27,814 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)NanceGreggs
(27,814 posts)tabasco
(22,974 posts)but not my political party. LOL.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)leftofcool
(19,460 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)My parents were Democrats even longer - 75 years for my father, a few less for my mother.
I doubt they would appreciate the characterization of the party THEY helped to build that it's getting from interlopers today. They were far from "establishment"!
Great OP, thanks.
DemonGoddess
(4,640 posts)Thank you!
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)The Republicans are the same when it comes to climate change.
There are only 2 candidates offering hard, real proposals to climate change instead of "incrementalism" that fucks our planet forever. We're at the 11th hour.
Go on, love the "establishment" into oblivion. In 10 years (less according to most scientists), your "concerns" will amount to nothing as catastrophe begins to escalate.
The rest of us will continue to fight for our future.
Iliyah
(25,111 posts)Both the north and south poles are melting at a rapid rate. Reason, per se, something is warming. Why? The industrial part of the world enjoys comforts. The United States of America is part of that world. Are you willing to give up, and I guess you are.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)I'm voting for Bernie.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)and entertainment, prevention of animal cruelty, and humane slaughter. I think the bills she sponsored for animal welfare causes, and her votes speak for themselves. Bernie Sanders has a great record on animal rights, too. But I must say his vote in 2014 for the bill that would allow hunting and trapping on federal lands was a disappointment.
As someone who has participated in the rescue of sport and gaming animals, particularly older animals who are no longer young or healthy enough to be used for sport, (horses, dogs, birds, etc...) I think either candidate would be great on this issue. But Madam President will have the foreign policy experience to push for treaties and trade deals that benefit the environment.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)Rainforest deforestation, habitat destruction and overfishing in the ocean, Groundwater poisoning from strip mining, uranium mining etc etc
Any and all of the above rate higher than the use of animals for sport as a toxic environmental concern.
In fact, your post is almost obscene in your attempt to minimize the real and growing dangers, and it's exactly this deflection to fringe environmental issues that make people run from Hillary and to Jill Stein or Bernie Sanders who offer robust proposals.
In 10 years it won't make one bit of difference that elephants can no longer be used in circuses when the entire state of Oklahoma has no clean water because their aquifer has been destroyed by fracking or the Great Barrier Reef no longer exists.
And people will justifiably excoriate Madame President forever in history for ensuring elephants are no longer used in circus' instead of devoting herself day one to addressing rising CO2 levels because the planet is on its 11th hour.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)sport and the general use of animals as resources is an environmental concern. I don't think the treatment of animals is "fringe."
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)My entire life's work revolves around the humane treatment of sport animals and I understand their importance intimately.
So I understand the importance of sport and show animals on the scale of climate change concerns but please carry on insisting on prioritizing show animals as a primary climate change concern.
It shows so much.
Really. Carry on.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)like factory farms as a serious concern?
Yup cows are a concern due to the mass of them, and do not get me started on pigs and emerging diseases.
But overall, cows are a larger concern, but no way close to fracking.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)please feel free to add to my list.
Commercial livestock farming is another toxic environmental polluter and rates far higher on the scale of crisis offenders that need immediate attention and remedy than rescuing show animals.
Worthy as that activity is, it in no way compares to fracking for example or the typical CAFO lot.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)polly7
(20,582 posts)for years, but I rescued PMU babies every fall for nearly 15 years (all that I could afford to, anyway) that were put through auction and to be headed mostly for the meat plants sent on horribly overcrowded trucks for thousands of miles - foals without mothers crunched in with old stallions and mares terrified and being tortured who bit, kicked and lunged on these helpless babies. I trained them and sold them to good, private homes. I've also rescued orphaned lambs about to die, goats, dogs, cats and nearly every other domestic animal I can think of - and even a few wild ones - loving and showing/rescuing animals has nothing to do with the impact of industrialized farming, deforestation for grazing and all those other things you mentioned towards climate change.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)as riding/service/companion whatever-they-tell-me-they're-best-suited-for in their post racetrack life.
I'm deeply involved in animal rescue and understand the nuances intimately. I find it very disingenuous to compare that (worthy) work to reducing CO2 emissions or stopping fracking as an action that saves the planet.
polly7
(20,582 posts)I love that these horses can be saved.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)entertainment. There is no benefit to the animals, and more than not, sport animals end up discarded once they outlive their usefulness. I've seen dogs, horses, birds....all abandoned and abused because human beings believed they had a right to breed and use animals for a purpose as trivial as human entertainment in the first place.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)I'm grateful for my sisters and brothers who also work in the field of animal rescue and I salute you for your work.
I too am deeply involved in animal rescue but would never compare that with those people working to eradicate fracking (as just one example) which is the kind of direct action the next President must take to save this green earth in her 11th hour.
DesertFlower
(11,649 posts)Cha
(297,222 posts)I the #establishment!
You are so right, bravenak.. the good ol "establishment" like Rep John Lewis, Sen Sherrod Brown, my Senator Maize Hirono and all those who vote for Hillary are the ones who are saving us from the Hell that is clawing on the other side.
They're our Firewall.. just like President Obama is our Firewall now.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)But they do it. And take the trashing from all sides to do the right thing.
Cha
(297,222 posts)Meteor Man
(385 posts)Say howdy to The former Senator from MBNA for me! I am fighting the IRS over my hardship exemption to stop them from seizing $125/month from my S.S. benefit.
Ya gotta love a Third Way politician who screws over senior citizens!
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Meteor Man
(385 posts)[link:http://talkingpointsmemo.com/cafe/moyers-winship-oped-time-for-wasserman-schultz-emanuel-to-resign|
You can't get any more Establishment Dem than Rahm and DWS. Just ask Bill Moyers:
[link:http://talkingpointsmemo.com/cafe/moyers-winship-oped-time-for-wasserman-schultz-emanuel-to-resign|
Meteor Man
(385 posts)w4rma
(31,700 posts)slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)comment.
"...I did not know jews hated us blacks so much. Good to know. I will return it in kind. There are so few of them It's a wonder they have the gall to think about being racist against blacks."
There are so few of them ... too bad so many were killed and those that survived have the gall, I some people's minds to think about being racist towards blacks.
Honestly I have little time for anyone that focuses their hate against a religion, race or sexual identity. These hateful posts began on DU well over a year ago and I think they are destructive against all people.
They need to be brought to the attention of people so they can make a decision if they stand with hate or a better world for all.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)She is up to like 9 hidden posts now. 5 in the last few days alone. She has zero self control. Serious NPD issues. Is only a matter of time before she is banned permanently.
Response to w4rma (Reply #32)
masmdu This message was self-deleted by its author.
Kelvin Mace
(17,469 posts)who will die in the next war HRC and the establishment Dems get us into? Do their lives matter?
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Kelvin Mace
(17,469 posts)You want me to vote for HRC, a person who endorsed illegally invading a sovereign nation and killing hundreds of thousands, a person who brags of her friendship with a war criminal who has the blood of millions on his hands, in order to protect your life and liberty. But if other people die, that's okay.
Why are you special, but other people, non-white people I might add, "off subject"?
bravenak
(34,648 posts)This is my opinion of those who let republicans get the white house.
Kelvin Mace
(17,469 posts)for anyone, no matter how vile or odious, just because they have a "D" after there name.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Kelvin Mace
(17,469 posts)Response to bravenak (Original post)
Post removed
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Response to bravenak (Original post)
forjusticethunders This message was self-deleted by its author.
NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)eom
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Same difference
Waiting For Everyman
(9,385 posts)The icons have fallen. People have seen behind Oz's curtain and it isn't pretty, and they aren't amused.
The Dem party will have to clean up its act significantly, or it will find itself unable to elect anybody anymore.
Pay to play is not acceptable. Selling our law to lobbyists is not acceptable. It's called treason.
The only reason it hasn't been prosecuted is both sides are doing it. Well then, we will have to elect new people with new values who aren't already sold out before they're elected, and that is just what has begun.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)See ya!
Mary Mac
(323 posts)Drives the voters and registers the voters. Getting the vote out is God's calling.
KPN
(15,645 posts)You are basically saying Hillary can beat the GOP but Bernie can't (unless you doubt Bernie's commitment to the rights of all people regardless of race, gender, religion, etc.). I am 100% confident you are wrong on that one. I actually think Bernie is a stronger candidate for thew Ds to run.
So how about you cut out the Hillary and the Establishment or else stuff?
AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)The Good Cop tells the person that they will help them and protect them from the Bad Cop. It is a successful strategy.
hollysmom
(5,946 posts)I love people, pets living things.
The party is there to serve the members, I love many democrats, but the party is just a thing.
this means either I take the word love more seriously than most, quite possible the way it is thrown around by a lot, or some people are operating on an lesser valued interpretation.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)threat to get us away from Bernie.
ismnotwasm
(41,980 posts)Odin2005
(53,521 posts)SMC22307
(8,090 posts)On Hillary:
Everybody says shit that comes off bad or even was said exactly how they feel but was incomplete or uninformed.
If he can treat them as separate but connected rather than one size fits all he will do much better, you know I do not love politicians. Except Obama. Maybe Jill Stein. They cool.
On Jill Stein:
Who, exactly, do you think you're fooling? The site owners because you were Flagged for Review yet again?
Irony lost on you, eh?
Vote for Hillary in spite of her "race related spewing," everyone!