I see the meme of the day is already out,caucuses are mean and unfair!!!!!!!!

[libtodeath]

[Trust Buster]

1. Tantamount to voter suppression in my mind.

[senz]

85. Unlike what happened in Arizona.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

89. Didn't like 99.9% of Sanders and Clinton supporters agree that they suck? I think that's one thing

all of us agreed on whether or not our candidate won a caucus one or lost one.

[senz]

92. "74-90% of those affected are Bernie Sanders supporters"

https://twitter.com/HiveComm/status/713849739477983233

[Aerows]

150. That is the point

most Hillary folks are avoiding any mention of.

[senz]

154. Probably. But they may not know yet.

The source of this information is extremely interesting: Anonymous decided to take a look at it:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511579756

[DURHAM D]

2. They are.

Please read this - http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1585390

Minorities, women, children and anyone not armed feels they are in danger.

[libtodeath]

4. Cool story.

[DURHAM D]

10. It was not cool at all.

It is frightening and keeps people from voting.

[libtodeath]

16. Whatever you think

[KitSileya]

97. Caucuses, 6.5% participation. Primaries, 52.8% participation.

Isn't that evidence enough for charges of disenfranchisement?

The numbers are from the 11 first states in the republican nomination process in 2012. They didn't even base it on the number of registered voters, but on the number of republican votes in 2008. The source is the Guardian:

"Primary turnout, as calculated by the percentage of people voting in each contest v the number of people in each state who actually voted for the Republican party's presidential nominee in 2008, has averaged 52.8%. Turnout has ranged from a low 37.3% in the "closed" Arizona primary (in which only registered Republicans can vote), to a high of 78.5% in the semi-closed New Hampshire primary (in which registered Republicans and Independents may vote).

Turnout in caucuses, by the same measure, has averaged just 6.5%. Turnout has varied between a low of 1.3% in the Wyoming caucus, to a high of 17.9% in the much-anticipated Iowa caucus (where many Independents newly registered to become Republicans in order to vote for Ron Paul)."

You might not care, but I find those numbers horrifying.

[libtodeath]

98. Would you if Hillary had swept them?

[KitSileya]

113. Yes. They disenfranchise too many people.

Participation in single digits, or even if it's 20% is not a good number. I don't want to make it hard to vote in our nomination process for large groups of Democrats, the very groups that are most vulnerable. Voting in the primary should be secret ballot, with at least two weeks advanced voting, and with plenty of polling places. People with disabilities, people who don't speak English, carers of children and others, or people with tricky work schedules shouldn't be disenfranchised in the party that champions their causes.

[Number23]

155. I had no idea that the caucus numbers were so tiny. Thanks for your post.

[Autumn]

48. Wow. Caucus goers were armed? Where was this at?

[pdsimdars]

54. Obviously a story from people who have never attended one.

When I lived in Iowa it was just sitting around in little groups with your friends and people brought cookies and punch and we chatted most of the time.
They must go to the ones with super predators who have to be brought to heel.

[Autumn]

61. It's just an attempt to trash Bernie supporters. Any lie will do.

That part about the child? That would have been caught on video and it would be everywhere, the parents would have gone to the media. They lie, that's what they do. Trolls gotta troll.

[libtodeath]

93. It was a good story though.

[Autumn]

100. It'll never be a best seller though.

[senz]

104. ...

So glad to see you here, Autumn.

(No need to reply.)

[Autumn]

107. Oh I always reply to you

[senz]

130. You enrich this place.

But I know how hands can ache, energy can ebb, and commenting duties can pile up. And all that. Some of us give more than we can because we care so much.



nuff sed.

[Autumn]

134. Yep we know.

[Aerows]

151. And NOW, on CNN

Caucus members threatened with cookies and punch. They are taking drinking the Kool-aid too far!!!

[enlightenment]

74. Where is the proof?

It sounds like an absolute horror, so I'm sure there is some independently verifiable proof of these allegations, right?

[yourout]

3. Caucuses have their problems but at least you can document the

Vote and know some hacker can't flip the results

[senz]

76. That's why Camp Hill dislikes them. Too clean.

[lunamagica]

88. What is clean about disfranshisinng the elderly, people who work, the disabled, and others

who are unable to participate in caucuses?

[senz]

99. Same thing when people are forced to stand in line

whether by insufficient ballots and switched party affiliation (e.g. Arizona) or an ex-president forcing polling sites to close so that he can illegally campaign on voting day for his wife?

Don't ever talk to us about "clean."

[lunamagica]

111. Oh, yeah, I forgot I was talking to the pure as snow camp

Followers of St Bernard of Vermont

[senz]

116. LOVE it when y'all do that.

Such an admission of guilt.

When one backs a dirty candidate, one gets dirty.

[lunamagica]

122. You are funny

Finally, the one pure enough to cast the first stone was born

[senz]

127. Ridicule from Hill's Bros. What else is new?

I wish y'all were nicer to deal with.

What I am, lunamagica, is dead serious.

And you should be, too. There is too much at stake in this election. We cannot afford a thoroughly corrupt individual in the Oval Office. Democracy is dying. The American people deserve better.

Think. Feel. It's never to late.

[lunamagica]

131. Your insults and superior attitude have convinced me! I'm feeling the Bern!

Being called dirty, unthinking and unfeeling did it.

Wonderful, magical approach to get people to your side.

[senz]

133. Seriously. Seriously.

There is too much at stake for all this jousting. You launched the "purity" and St. Bernard ridicule. Do you have any idea what it feels like when Hills Bros sneer and ridicule our idealism and hopefulness in Bernie's vision and message?

It's not necessary. It always sounds like taunting. And so sadly cynical that it makes me feel sorry for Hill fans.

I just want people to open their eyes. I'm not in this to jab for fun because it's never fun for me. I can't understand why people, mainly Hill supporters, enjoy it so much. When I strike outward, it's in exasperation, never sadistic glee.

But I do wish you would stop and consider.

Maybe I'm wasting my time, just banging my head against a wall.

[lunamagica]

135. You replied to my thoughts about caucasus in general by saying

"Don't ever talk to us about "clean." "

I had not insulted you or any Sander supporter at that point. But you attacked me. How did you expect me to react?

Believe me, I don't enjoy it. If you see my history (waste of time, I know), you'd see that I'm not prone to these jabs. Do I use them? oh, yes I do, but it is usually in response to when I feel attacked (like by you in this case).

I have my eyes open. And I have my reasons for supporting Sec. Clinton.

And believe me, it is not because I'm dirty, unthinking and unfeeling, the words you called me.

[senz]

139. I find it very ironic when Hill fans talk about "clean" elections

and I explained why.

I did not attack you and did not call you, specifically, "dirty, unthinking and unfeeling." You twisted my words there. That is something that your candidate is famous for doing. It is not appreciated.

[lunamagica]

146. "That is something that your candidate is famous for doing."

There you go again. I don't have to take this.

I'm done with you. Have a nice day

[libtodeath]

141. Real classy.

[99Forever]

5. Truth be told, the REAL problem they have with caucuses...

... is that they are far less open to manipulation and cheating.

Fucks up their roll.

[libtodeath]

8. BINGO and real voting problems are A ok as long as their candidate wins.

[DURHAM D]

13. Not true.

The real problem with caucuses is that they are dangerous.

[99Forever]

18. Dangerously DEMOCRATIC and much harder to cheat at.

Which presents HUGE problems for Clinton style politics for the interests of the 1%.

[DURHAM D]

21. Actually they would be much easier to cheat at.

You clearly don't know the first thing about how caucuses work. And, just for the record, caucuses suppress voting turnout.

[99Forever]

22. Bwahahahaha...

Nice try fool.

I was an alternate delegate to the Democratic state convention in 2008 and am a delegate for SD caucuses next Saturday. There clearly one of us that doesn't "know the first thing about how caucuses work" and it sure as fuck isn't me.

[DURHAM D]

24. Will you be armed? nt

[99Forever]

25. What the fuck is that supposed to mean?

Camp Weathervane is Berning down and the inhabitants are losing their minds as the see what's ahead.

[DURHAM D]

26. At my caucus many of the men of a certain age

who were BS supporters were armed.

[99Forever]

29. Bullshit.

[riderinthestorm]

33. You have photos right? I mean you'd want to document that nt

[Autumn]

49. Somehow I doubt that any photos or video exists of any of that tall tale.

[libtodeath]

96. Gosh,no response,that is shocking.

[Bluenorthwest]

56. Do you understand that the Democratic Party sued the State of Washington in order to reinstate their

caucus when a Primary election was substituted for the caucus? Washington has a caucus because the Democratic Party wants it that way.

Personally I am not a big caucus fan and I am happy to say so even the day after my side won caucuses. Did you do the same after Hillary's caucus wins? My guess is no.

[TalkingDog]

73. Pics or it didn't happen.

(It didn't happen)

[Marr]

90. At my caucus, all of the Hillary supporters carried samurai swords

and literally beheaded people who spoke ill of Hillary.

I don't have pictures either.

[Autumn]

102. They carried flame throwers at mine, the carnage was horrifying.

[Marr]

117. I'll bet it was. We saw one small contingent of elite Hillary supporters sporting something

they called 'Tactical Nuclear Caucus Suits'.

[HassleCat]

114. I have pictures!

Of course, they prove nothing, because you can't confirm the identities of people without their heads.

[Marr]

124. LOL

[Buzz cook]

148. No I left my samuri sword in the car

It was too crowded at the caucus so knives were a better option.

[Fuddnik]

91. Were those the 2 Black Panthers Faux Nooz reported a few years ago?

[Kittycat]

51. Which caucus and district or precinct/location?

Since most buildings don't allow weapons, and most had officers on site, I'm curious who your Dem chair was.

[FarPoint]

79. Ohio is not a Caucus...

So, I have no personal experience. I helped campaign for Dean in Iowa back in the day but of course, not a voter...Sounds like the danger concerns are valid in today's gunslingers society.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

81. Seriously? I've been going to caucuses in my city for years now

and I've never seen anything remotely "dangerous." I live in a large city in a diverse neighborhood. People go to the caucus and vote for their presidential preference, and then if they want they can stick around and get involved in the business of the party by voting on resolutions or maybe getting elected as a delegate to the county convention. There are no fist fights or guns. There are legitimate criticisms of the caucus system but "dangerous" isn't one of them.

[Trenzalore]

15. What is the voter turnout in a caucus vs. primary? nt.

[Beacool]

53. Your comment is ridiculous.

Some of us have been around for more than one election cycle. It's not about this election. Caucuses are undemocratic in this day and age.

[mythology]

6. Caucuses are what they are

There's a reason that far fewer people come out for a caucus than a primary. But there was a lot of complaining about how long people had to stand in line to vote in Arizona. Apparently that's not a problem if Sanders wins.

Caucuses should be done away with as the structure makes it harder for people to vote. Voting should be easy. The lines in Arizona sucked and so do caucuses for the same reason.

[oberliner]

7. You don't think caucuses are unfair?

It seems a little unfair to people - requiring them to spend several hours to go vote at one specific time.

Primaries allow for people to vote whenever they are able to do so, and, in theory, the process is much quicker.

A lot of people have jobs or other responsibilities that would make it difficult or impossible to attend a caucus.

[libtodeath]

9. Seems like no one had a problem with them until Hillary gets beaten

now we have to abolish them.

[Trenzalore]

14. My state has a primary

If we had a caucus I'd be working to get rid of it.

[oberliner]

27. That's definitely not true

Here's a post from June of last year:

Caucuses are an elitist, anti-Democratic practice that should have ended long ago.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026882179

There has also been a lot of discussion about caucuses being unfair that pre-date this election cycle.

[Bluenorthwest]

57. It's a fact worth knowing- Washington has a caucus because the Democratic Party sued to be allowed

to caucus when the State instituted election style primaries. So the Party wanted that caucus and DU has not been objecting to that in any meaningful way. I see Hillary supporters from WA objecting to the process their own damn Party very aggressively sought to put in place. If they don't like the caucus they should take it up with the Democratic Party of Washington.

It's not like Bernie told then to have a caucus. It's that Washington Democrats insisted upon a caucus. I don't care for caucuses myself. But I care even less for persons and groups that are very much for something while it serves them and instantly very opposed to it when it fails to serve them.

Nevada also switched to caucus from Primary, 2008 was their first caucus. Why did they do that? Why is it not discussed before and between cycles and only discussed in extremes the day after? I don't get that part.

[oberliner]

71. I think this issue is separate from Bernie v. Hillary

I know that some folks are using it in regard to their preferred candidate, but I just think if everyone takes a step back, that holding a primary is inherently fairer than holding a caucus. I would support all states moving to that system in future elections.

[Major Hogwash]

110. Nevada switched to use a caucus because Harry Reid is a gambler!!

And he knew what the odds were when they instituted the caucus in Nevada.

[Agschmid]

32. I actually have been speaking out against them for months.

As have many people.

[Art_from_Ark]

17. But some primaries have some ridiculous conditions

Like New York, where voters could only change party preference by October 2015 before the first Democratic debate was held, but a new voter can still register if their registration was postmarked by March 25th, 2016.

http://teambernieny.org/voter-registration-faq/

Or other closed primary states, where voters have been told that their party preference has been mysteriously changed without their knowledge, or that they are otherwise ineligible to vote.

[oberliner]

28. Yes, indeed

Those issues ought to be addressed as well.

That being said, I think that primaries - where people can vote at any point during the day - are fairer than caucuses - where people need to come at one specific time.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

11. I wouldn't know; my state has a primary.

It seemed "civilized" to walk to a polling place, pick up a ballot, make a mark, turn it in, then walk home. No fuss, other than running the gauntlet of partisans standing 151 feet from the polling place.

If those partisans really wanted my attention, they would have served doughnuts and coffee. If they wanted my committed vote, they'd have served bratwurst and beer.

I like being able to pick my own time to vote, not having to be there at some certain time.

Maybe the caucus system is good, for those who like parties and sporting events.

[Trenzalore]

12. They are terrible ways to hold elections

They disenfranchise the elderly, people with children, working people, and the disabled.

[dana_b]

46. just like the Az primary did

I agree with you but some of the primary systems are no better. When they diminish the amount of precincts from 200 to 60, well that's no better than a caucus.

[Trenzalore]

63. It emphasizes the importance of getting a majority back on the Supreme Court

and reinstating the Voting Rights Act.

[RazBerryBeret]

19. i can see benefits of both...

it would suck to be required to stay at a polling place for hours. Ohio is a primary state, but I have to to admit I generally am suspect if my vote is really going where it should. I press that touch screen button, stare at the receipt paper thing that is printing my vote, just to make sure.... cause it's Ohio... can't be too sure.

[stillwaiting]

62. I don't get a receipt. Just touch a screen and cast my ballot.

Supposedly.

[RazBerryBeret]

95. Not an actual receipt....

I just watch it print on the little roll of white paper at the bottom left . My son voted this month for his first time ever--and I told him to do the same! So we know our votes were accurate ..

[demmiblue]

20. All states should hold open primaries. n/t

[Old Codger]

30. Yes that too

With vote by mail.... no long lines in bad weather, no problems with were to go to vote....

[demmiblue]

55. Yes, I think that vote by mail is the way to go (with concessions made for those without addresses).

I love the excitement of election day, though!

[riderinthestorm]

36. +1. Agreed. I don't like seeing anyone disenfranchised nt

[dana_b]

47. I agree

I'm lucky that California will let a person vote as a "Decline to state" voter. i wouldn't find it fair that I had to change my party just to vote in an election.

And yes, I think indys should get to vote for whomever they want. That's democracy and if people don't like it, too bad!

[Trenzalore]

23. Fortunately there aren't many left and we are coming up on a series of closed primaries.

[dubyadiprecession]

31. These western wins by bernie are "hollow victories" Hillary is still...

ahead. Bernie missed the starting gate of this horse race weeks ago. You might as well call him the "also ran".

[Punkingal]

50. Bullshit.

[Old Codger]

70. My My My

what a great attitude...It is not really a race, at least according to the elite... to bad your favorite is losing huh? Hard to take? The "anointed one is toast.. just a matter of time and she will end up same as 2008...

[Jackie Wilson Said]

80. Wrong...Bernie can still pull this out, and even if he doesnt, and someday you still end

up with universal healthcare because of his insistence, you can thank him.

[Agschmid]

34. Caucuses often automatically disenfranchise thousands of voters...

We should all switch to primaries with either early voting or mail in ballots, same with the GE.

It's interesting you think disenfranchising thousands of voters through the caucus system is a "meme".

[noamnety]

35. Bernie supporter here - and I am consistent on this.

Turnout rates for caucuses are in the single digits. Turnout rates for primaries where you go in, vote, and leave are double or triple that.

The lesson in that is that caucuses suppress the vote because they create hardships for people who work, for people who are housebound, for people who are primary care providers for children or adults, for people with anxiety disorders in large crowds, etc.

I'm stoked that Bernie won those states and am confident he would have won them anyway - but that doesn't change that I'd be pissed if I'd had to go through all that shit just to cast a vote in our primary in Michigan. The way it works for me now is when I get off work, my husband and I walk a quarter mile to our voting place, we had about ten people ahead of us in line - so maybe a 5-10 minute wait. We voted, we walked home and made dinner.

While I appreciate the efforts DUers made to give speeches and all, the reality is I was set on voting for Bernie and would have been fuming if I was forced to sit through hours of Hillary supporters bloviating about how I should support her, before I was allowed to cast my vote. That's the equivalent of being forced to listen to a Jehovah's Witness preach to me during a public school class in order to get credit for the course. I assume Hillary supporters feel the same way about being forced to listen to Bernie speeches in order to cast a vote.

[Bjornsdotter]

38. Agreed

I am not a fan of the caucus system for all of the reasons you stated.

[BernieforPres2016]

44. I could not agree more

And I would add that who one chooses to vote for should be a private matter.

[yourout]

65. I'm really torn about this......a bit of a flip-flopper as it were.

I agree with everything you posted but believe our vote counting systems and elections in general have become corrupted.

I work in the IT field and have no doubt that large scale electronic election fraud is/has taken place in the this country.

Caucuses make it harder to vote but you end up with truer outcomes of the people that get through the process.

[noamnety]

67. But the people who make it through the process

are not necessarily representing the entire population. It's only representing those who can afford and manage to be at a specific location at a specific time for up to twelve hours in some cases (!).

I also have no doubt that wide scale fraud is taking place electronically. I think the only solution would have to involve online verification that our individual votes were cast and counted properly. Not sure if that would involve paper or electronic voting. I would like to do an electronic or paper vote with a unique voting number, record it with my phone, and be able to go back and verify it in an online data base.

[yourout]

72. Constitutionally that can not happen because of the need for the secret ballot.

If elections use electronic means there must be two things.
#1. Paper ballots
#2. Mandatory public audits of random paper ballots against machine counts that if failed automatically revert to complete hand counts. Audits must be done before ballots are transferred to another location.

[Trenzalore]

66. Hillary Supporter Here

I agree. I would be equally as irritated. I teach at night and I would have to give up a night with my students in order to caucus if we caucused in PA.

I in no way think Hillary would have won primaries in these states. I think the margins would be smaller.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

86. My state's caucuses allow you to sign in, mark a ballot and go home.

You don't have to stay for the rest of the proceedings unless you want to get involved in the party's platform or become a delegate to the district convention. I usually stick around; this time I had to be somewhere else so I voted and left. Even with the long lines to get in I was out of there in about 20 minutes. Maybe other states have different procedures for their caucuses

I do agree that caucuses tend to exclude people who can't be there at a certain time, and a vote-all-day primary would make that possible.

[pugetres]

153. I went to my first

caucus in Washington yesterday. They allowed people to hand in their check-in form and leave. Their choices were counted (I was the one holding onto the forms and doing the counts).

But, the leaving early part of it nearly cost the Clinton supporters their one and only delegate from our precinct. There was only one Clinton supporter still around when we started the process to elect delegates and subs. That person HAD to agree to be the delegate else there would not be any precinct delegate for Clinton at the county convention in May.

[KitSileya]

105. Not double or triple. Try 8 times higher.

The numbers from the first 11 states in the 2012 Republican nomination, 6 caucuses and 5 primaries, averaged at 6.5% and 52.8% of the actual republican voters in 2008.

[DeadLetterOffice]

106. +1000

[Beacool]

108. Exactly!!!

I'm a busy person. There have been elections where I have barely made it to the polls before they closed. I started trying to go when they opened. I would never be able to caucus, unless I took a day off from work. Luckily, I'm in a closed primary state.

Caucuses hearken to another era and shouldn't exist anymore. Any system that disenfranchises those who for various reasons cannot caucus is inherently undemocratic.

[KitSileya]

121. Caucuses were designed to protect power to privileged white men.

They could keep poorer white men out of the process because the latter couldn't afford to take a whole day or even several days off work to meet at caucus sites and decide the candidates. One would think that a candidate that has championed socialist issues would be very against caucuses as undemocratic processes. Alas, I guess self-interest overrules his sense of fairness there.

[lunamagica]

126. Looks like little has changed.Yesterday white men outnumbered the rest by a great margin

[KitSileya]

129. I haven't seen any numbers on participation from yesterday.

It doesn't surprise me. In elections, women vote at higher numbers than men. In caucuses they don't. I wonder why that is. (No, I don't, such a confrontational form of voting runs directly counter to the cultural expectations for women, and puts them in a position where they have to put themselves at risk. Which woman doesn't have to defuse confrontations with angry and entitled men enough in everyday life to be hesitant about doing it in such a venue?)

[lunamagica]

132. I actually don't have any nunbers, just my thoughts from live reports at caucuses sites

White men outnumbered the rest by far.

There was this guy who said he was a Republican who had come to vote for Sanders. Big guy.

I tell you, as a woman I would have feel intimidated going alone there. I don't know if I cold have done it, as much as I wanted to.

[lunamagica]

118. Excellent post. You have describded the problems in a concise. People shouldn't have

to stand through such lectures.

The whole thing is absurd

[Depaysement]

37. Primaries work

Arizona was great!

[Bjornsdotter]

39. I can't understand

...why in 2016 we cannot run an effective election. Instead we look like a banana republic to the rest of the world.

[Depaysement]

136. True

TPTB don't care. They hate democracy and profit from its failures.

[Springslips]

40. Both primaries and caucuses are undemocratic.

So I am not sure what the fight is about, both these forms blot out choice and democracy. If we had a true democratic system we would have a run-off election and then a general.

[hobbit709]

41. big change in attitude among some people since Iowa.

[libtodeath]

144. It is hilarious!

[Orangepeel]

42. caucuses are terrible, but the rules are the rules

personally, I prefer closed primaries, because the purpose of a primary is for a party to pick the party nominee. People who choose to affiliate with a party ought to do the picking, but it shouldn't be difficult for them to do. Caucuses reward enthusiasm, but make it harder to vote.

but, parties within states set it up the way they want to set it up within certain time parameters and subject to the laws of the state. it is what it is, at least during an election cycle. Candidates need to plan accordingly.

[itsrobert]

43. I have not changed my mind on this since Hillary was winning caucuses like Iowa and Nevada

Have you changed your mind since than?

Why do you think caucuses are fair?

[NorthCarolina]

45. No ballot box to stuff with absentee ballots.

Caucus is a much harder nut to crack. Look for Dems to move to all closed primaries following this election season.

[Beacool]

52. They actually are.

I have been opposed to caucuses for years, regardless of who has been in the running and who has won them. They disenfranchise far too many people who for various reasons can't caucus. IMO, they should have been gotten rid of decades ago.

[randome]

58. You see a couple of DUers and maybe some social media rantings and make it into a 'meme'?

It's this constant implication that there is a vast conspiracy against you that simply blows my mind.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"If you're bored then you're boring." -Harvey Danger[/center][/font][hr]

[brooklynite]

59. Probably learned that line from you folks...

[WhiteTara]

60. Only if Hillary wins. nt

[Skwmom]

64. A lot harder to fix the vote. A caucus vote can still be rigged but it is a lot harder to do.n/t

[Recursion]

68. They have pros and cons, as I also said when Clinton was winning them

They reward off-year party-building, for the most part, which is probably a good thing. But they also have drawbacks.

[cherokeeprogressive]

69. PoC don't caucus!

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

82. Then I wonder who those people were at my caucus.

They sure looked like PoC to me.

[cherokeeprogressive]

87. Oh come on. They where White Christian Males in disguise, and you know it. nt

[kiva]

75. I'm a Bernie supporter and I hate caucuses.

I posted a screed about them when we had ours a few weeks ago, they really do disenfranchise a lot of people. I'm headed as a delegate to our county caucus this Saturday and am only excited because I get to vote for him again

I'm jazzed that Bernie's been winning the caucuses - heck, I'm happy wherever he wins - but I'm going to support the people who want to change our state to a primary system after this election cycle.

[Vattel]

77. Lol, like Bernie wouldn't have won Washington, etc. had been primaries instead of caucuses.

[senz]

83. Precisely. But they have to make excuses

for why the most cosseted, money-pumped, fear-endorsed, MSM-promoted influence peddling, "inevitable" candidate isn't doing so well.

[metroins]

78. Caucuses are dumb

But it's the process we currently have.

[srobert]

84. Caucuses Are Unfair

I went to caucus for Bernie in February in Nevada and was elected as a delegate to the county convention next week. I'm not ashamed of the way that I voted, but my wife stood on the other side of the room glaring at me. Other people may find that their boss, parents, church members, union members, chamber of commerce members, are standing on the other side of the room glaring at them. I think that's intimidating for some people and unfairly affects the outcome of some political contests. I think legitimately democratic elections require the possibility of keeping one's allegiances secret.
Moreover, since I'm a delegate at the county level, I'll share a little secret. I don't have to vote next week, the way that I was elected to vote. I was elected to go cast a vote for Bernie Sanders. But the rules allow me to change my mind if I want to. I'm completely unaccountable to the chumps that elected me at the precinct caucus. (We're all chumps for allowing the party to have these kinds of rules.) I wouldn't do that. But that's what's permitted under the rules. Perhaps we should start thinking about rule changes for the next election. While we're at it we can dispense with the entire idea of "super-delegates".

[democrattotheend]

94. I think caucuses are kind of unfair

Despite being an Obama 2008 and Bernie 2016 supporter, both of whom did very well at caucuses. I am not inherently against the idea of caucusing, but I think it is unfair if no provision is made for those who are not able to attend at a particular time to have a voice. From what I understand Washington state actually does have a way to participate as an absentee in the caucus?

[DeadLetterOffice]

101. I'm a rabid Bernie supporter.

Caucuses are INCREDIBLY disenfranchising, especially to working class, elderly, and disabled people.

[Major Hogwash]

103. They're so mean and unfair . . . How mean and unfair are they?

They're so mean and unfair, that you can change your vote before the final vote is taken.

*Johnny Carson impression*

Boise, Idaho held the largest caucus in the history of the United States!!!

[HassleCat]

109. Of course they're unfair

If they hurt my candidate. The same goes for primaries, vote by mail, internet voting or anything else. All states should have proportional delegate assignment, except those states where my candidate ekes out narrow victory, and those states should be winner take all. And so on, and so on.

[senz]

112. Ex-Presidents forcing lockdown at polling places on primary days are unfair.

[Spirochete]

115. Caucuses are ridiculous

I can't stand on my feet for a long time, but I went to the Washington caucus yesterday. The place was packed, and I had to stand most of the time. My feet and legs are still letting me know about it today. It sure doesn't seem like ther best way to do this...

[senz]

123. We liberals favor accommodations for those with disabilities.

I'm in the same boat as you physically, and I sympathize. But it should be law (good ol' liberal regulations!) that polling places are equal access with accommodations -- chairs, etc. -- for those who can't be on their feet long.

It's fair and it's common sense.

And thank you for going to the Washington caucus!

[bkkyosemite]

119. Counting manually is transparent whether it be caucus or ballot vote counted in public

only way to go.

[KingFlorez]

120. That's what pratically everyone thinks

It's not even a matter of sides. Most people think that caucuses are a bad idea, because of how difficult and confusing they can end up being. Primaries are much better.

[Lucinda]

125. They are unless they provide for absentee type voting too.

I don't support any system that disenfranchises voters. The caucus system disenfranchises those who cannot physically caucus, and those who cannot take the time off to participate. Not sure why you would support a system that prevents people from voting.

[nadinbrzezinski]

128. I do not like caucuses, I think they do depress the vote

on the other hand, they are much harder to cheat at.

[senz]

138. That's why Bernie favors cheat-proofing our primaries.

Sadly, various tactics are used to disenfranchise certain segments of our population. Common methods of voter suppression include last-minute changes to polling locations and hours, reducing the number of polling places, and enacting voter ID laws which suppress voters without a driver’s license.

In 2013, the Supreme Court gutted the Voting Rights Act of 1965, a landmark bill passed to combat voter suppression at the ballot box, particularly against people of color. The ruling outlawed a key requirement in the 1965 bill which required states with a history of racial discrimination at the poll to “preclear” any changes to electoral laws with the federal government before enacting them. This change allowed nine states to change election laws without federal approval.

<snip>

In June 2015, Bernie co-sponsored the Voting Rights Advancement Act. The proposed bill seeks to expand the attorney general’s authority to request federal observers at polling stations and to establish a new geographic formula for deciding which states need federal permission to amend electoral laws. The bill proposes that the “preclear” is required only in states where there have been repeated voting rights violations in the previous 25 years.

http://feelthebern.org/bernie-sanders-on-political-and-electoral-reform/#democracy-day

[srobert]

137. Caucuses Make it Easier to Verify that My Employees Vote the Right Way

EOM

[liberal_at_heart]

140. I'm glad the caucuses are going for Bernie, but personally I like mail in ballot primaries.

I've always viewed religion and politics the same way. I don't see the point in proselytizing. It's just not my style. I can do my own research and come to my own conclusion. Then all I have to do in a mail in primary is fill out my ballot and mail it in. Simple, easy, and we would probably have more people voting if we did it that way.

[Cheese Sandwich]

142. Obama cleaned up in the caucuses. Funny how all of a sudden they are mean and such

Without caucuses we might never have have had President Obama. Think about it.

[libtodeath]

145. Dont insert truth into the whine of the day from the Clinton camp

They seem in a bit of a panic.

[Blue_In_AK]

143. Ours was somewhat chaotic,

(twice as many participants as 2008), but it was fun and great to be feeling all the excitement and mingling with our neighbors and friends. I guess it probably helped the tone that we all were so overwhelmingly in Sanders' corner. It was actually more like a rally than a caucus.

[demwing]

147. Even the name is sexist

[Aerows]

152. OMG!

[demwing]

157. Yeah, I went there

[Buzz cook]

149. I've argued with many Sanders supporters about caucuses

They all were against them. I find it odd that now that Bernie has won big in a caucus state that many Sanders supporters are now for them.

I like caucuses, I've participated in each caucus during a presidential election year for quite some time. Caucuses have many benefits.

But they aren't magic. Some of the claimed benefits in this thread are just wrong. Caucuses aren't enherently more democratic or more transparent than primaries. That's just uniformed blather.

I also find the claims of violence or verbal abuse to be beyond belief. In every caucus I've been to people have been mostly polite, though there is the occasional person with attitude.

Oh Washington has very liberal weapons laws. So its not surprising to see someone carrying a firearm.

[Number23]

156. This has been a great thread. Probably because it didn't go at all as you intended

Lots of informative posts. I'd already seen lots of Sanders supporters express dismay at the caucus system but the posts in this thread were particularly clear and informative.

[libtodeath]

158. On the contrary,am loving the hypocricy of the Clinton supporters that swooned over Iowa.

[Number23]

159. Well, if you'd rather focus on them than the Sanders supporters that are IN YOUR THREAD and

saying the exact opposite of what your OP clearly wants and are voicing their concerns over the use of caucuses, that's your choice.

[libtodeath]

160. Aww sorry for your sad

[Number23]

162. Why would I be sad that Sanders supporters are voicing concerns over the caucus system?

It's your thread that's clearly not going the way you want. I'm feeling pretty spiffy about that actually.

[libtodeath]

163. How about Clinton supporters renouncing her caucus wins now?

[Number23]

164. I'll leave you, your irrational rage, and your typos to themselves now.

See ya.