2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumLAT: FBI to interview Clinton
Last edited Sun Mar 27, 2016, 10:04 PM - Edit history (1)
As has long been expected.
Clinton email probe enters new phase as FBI interviews loom
Prosecutors also are expected to seek an interview with Clinton herself, though the timing remains unclear.
The interviews by FBI agents and prosecutors will play a significant role in helping them better understand whether Clinton or her aides knowingly or negligently discussed classified government secrets over a non-secure email system when she served as secretary of State.
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-clinton-email-probe-20160327-story.html
And from the WaPo:
"Throughout, Clinton aides paid insufficient attention to laws and regulations governing the handling of classified material and the preservation of government records, interviews and documents show. They also neglected repeated warnings about the security of the BlackBerry while Clinton and her closest aides took obvious security risks in using the basement server."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/how-clintons-email-scandal-took-root/2016/03/27/ee301168-e162-11e5-846c-10191d1fc4ec_story.html
Fairgo
(1,571 posts)have you seen my other shoe? I think I dropped it.
840high
(17,196 posts)AzDar
(14,023 posts)grasswire
(50,130 posts)Here it comes, kids.
There is no longer any possible pretense that she transmitted no classified mail.
There is no longer any pretense that she didn't know what was going on.
The fact that two major papers are into the details of the story today means there's movement. It is going to come down, and it's going to be ugly.
NWCorona
(8,541 posts)Would disqualify Hillary.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)releases her hostages, er, I mean delegates. Does she really have to stay in until the bitter end?
NWCorona
(8,541 posts)InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Bernie & Elizabeth 2016!!!
grasswire
(50,130 posts)I suspect she's going to use that technique to try to keep the nomination alive.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)Good point.
noretreatnosurrender
(1,890 posts)There's a link to the WaPo story in this thread. A MUST read.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1589335
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)Whoa!
They've already indicted her.
TheDormouse
(1,168 posts)This is just kabuki theater, to use a hackneyed phrase.
The worst that could possibly come out of this for Clinton is a light tap on the hand.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)and Berger has not been in politics like for a good while. I hear he is a little toxic.
Agreed, there will be no prison here, (if indicted) but a plea might include having to step down from the race.
philosslayer
(3,076 posts)He was, but ever since he died, not so much.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Thanks
leveymg
(36,418 posts)is actually indicted under the felony statute Sec. 793. I agree like Berger and Petraeus, she'll never see a day in jail because she will likely be pardoned before she pleads down to the misdemeanor included charge Sec 1724.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)The bulk of the nefarious activity has not been exposed yet.
840high
(17,196 posts)leveymg
(36,418 posts)The Clinton Foundation appears to have served largely the same purpose of funneling large amounts of Saudi and other foreign funds into select American political pockets. I'd like to see what we could turn up.
Marr
(20,317 posts)If you want to go into an election with a nominee who's being 'lightly tapped on the hand' for improperly handling secret documents... I don't know what to tell you. Trump would leave her in shreds.
Punkingal
(9,522 posts)thesquanderer
(11,986 posts)I just hope it is wrapped up quickly enough to not be a distraction during the campaign for the general (since she is still likely to be our candidate).
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)GeorgiaPeanuts
(2,353 posts)How dare anybody question a democrat's ethics or impugn her highness with trivial things like laws and rules
NWCorona
(8,541 posts)floriduck
(2,262 posts)We don't want her escapades to get in the way of Bernie's nomination. She'd be doing her former party a favor by bowing out respectfully.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)All of this was brought on herself. She is the actor.
NWCorona
(8,541 posts)But from a campaign perspective this isn't the news you want on Monday and it's no good going into NY. Which is pivotal for both her and Bernie.
He supporters can scream RW machine all they want but this was Hillary's doing.
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)woolldog
(8,791 posts)Perfectly natural for an interview to happen. One step closer to resolving this for good.
RiverLover
(7,830 posts)That was so thoughtful of you. Thanks!
noretreatnosurrender
(1,890 posts)Did you read the WaPo story?
demwing
(16,916 posts)we'd never hear the end of the calls for him to step aside.
EdwardBernays
(3,343 posts)Is the truth
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)that this was never, ever, like ever gonna happen...
Ooopsie
grasswire
(50,130 posts)autorank
(29,456 posts)Petraeus and Deutch cases took about 1.5 years to a slap on the wrist. If HRC's slap on the wrist happens before the convention, it will be devastating. If not and there's a solid leak, it will be almost as devastating. It's a no win for her since, absent extraordinary circumstances, she violated the law.
Bigi oopsie, you're eright.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)it is an oopsie
But the major funny thing is that I was promised here that this would never, ever, like ever, get big. 4 papers so far are picking this one...
Dem2
(8,168 posts)I guarantee nothing comes from this
NWCorona
(8,541 posts)This is serious stuff. It's not like she can say no I'm not gonna sit down and talk.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)This is reality.
I guess you put me in my place.
Whew.
NWCorona
(8,541 posts)I've requested all along to have a sit down with the FBI.
That will give comfort to some of her supporters but this isn't good.
Xipe Totec
(43,890 posts)She has trouble delivering consistent story more than once.
noretreatnosurrender
(1,890 posts)You had me laughing on that one and that's hard to do on such a serious issue as this is.
Xipe Totec
(43,890 posts)No, seriously.
The tragedy is that she is so lost, she can no longer tell the difference between truth and expedience.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)that if you know you did wrong, take steps to prevent doing it again, you are okay.
When you start doing so much wrong that you can't even realize you did something wrong, then you are in trouble.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)RKP5637
(67,107 posts)irrelevant depending on the depth of the perception and how much staying power it has. For one example, the swiftboating of Kerry.
RufusTFirefly
(8,812 posts)If Clinton is indicted, it won't be because justice is being done. It will be because she's run afoul of some other major power player.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)It's great in fact! The FBI is trying to clear Hillary's good name!
THERE IS NO THERE THERE!!!! Republican fishing ... this is bad.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)DJ13
(23,671 posts)Wait............
.......Hillary has a good name?!
When did that happen?!
Vote2016
(1,198 posts)grasswire
(50,130 posts)Because either James Comey will resign, or straight arrow FBI officials will begin to leak.
Obama will lose his legacy.
Not good.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)to the NY Post, but that is not a link I dare post on DU, due to the nature of the source. You know what I mean
Samantha
(9,314 posts)I have not heard Comey say that, but many think it will happen if she is not indicted. That is why I think a deal will be negotiated.
BUT I have no idea what the damages have been, and I don't think if one is on the outside looking in, there is no way to guess without that info what is going to happen. In some cases, it might have been catastrophic. But I personally do not know at this point. And those who do are not talking publicly.
Sam
Kip Humphrey
(4,753 posts)served as secretary of State."
"...or negligently discussed classified government secrets..."
I regret to say this may be the beginning of the end.
Ghost Dog
(16,881 posts)noretreatnosurrender
(1,890 posts)warranted (there might be) I hope Comey stands up to the enormous pressure that will be brought down upon him to drop it. If there are no illegalities found I hope he will provide all the documentation necessary to clear people. However it ends there is no doubt in my mind that Sec. Clinton exercised terrible judgement on this and that alone should be cause for worry.
2banon
(7,321 posts)all kidding aside, I think we're all in agreement with regard to the establishment print media is pretty much all belonging to the same club: the Korporate Party,
n'est-ce pas, mon ami?
sadoldgirl
(3,431 posts)"Everyone else before me has done it"
"The State Department is at fault, because
they did not tell me it was wrong."
"This is a RW conspiracy, and I am ashamed
that the FBI participates in something that bad."
"no damage was done, I admitted to a mistake,
what more do you want?"
She will NOT be indicted, just get a little slap
on her hands, comes out and tell the world:
" I told you there was nothing to worry about."
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)matt819
(10,749 posts)Is just taking too fucking long. Look, I hope they nail Hilary, but it's a travesty that this whole process is taking so long. Either indirect don't. But do it soon
-none
(1,884 posts)And every sentence starts with a capital letter and ends with a ".".
It will be iron clad, with no gaps between the rivets to escape through.
2banon
(7,321 posts)I remember too well the FitzChrismas, that at the end of the day, actually a period of at least a year, if memory serves, we thought Dick Cheney and Karl Rove was definitely going to be indicted and facing criminal prosecutions, but it did not regardless of the evidence at hand.
And then remember Christie Gate?
nada ding - nada dang thing happened.. lots of wasted hope and energy for justice to be served.
As a rule, it just doesn't happen to people in position of power. The better connected they are, the more likely they escape justice no matter the crime.
So, I suggest, keep apprised of the facts as it's slowly delivered, but let's not let out campaign hopes for Bernie hang on this, cuz it's just not going to get us there.
I love you all, stay strong..
TheDormouse
(1,168 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)everything would be set right, the country would be good again.
On and on and on.
But ... something's got to give ...
GreenPartyVoter
(72,377 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)who would hold the Bush administration accountable, and so many of us were overjoyed. But he was undermined by powerful forces. Not exactly a hopeful outcome.
onecaliberal
(32,852 posts)Their god damned mind?
Uncle Joe
(58,355 posts)Thanks for the thread, EdwardBernays.
JudyM
(29,236 posts)Dereliction of the most basic duty to ensure the confidentiality of a stream of documents that would have been easily foreseeable to be highly sensitive re: international relations, if not national security.
Look at it this way:
If she were, instead, a contractor working for the Secretary of State, wouldn't a *material* element of her contract have been ensuring a high level of security? Yet her server was an off the shelf model, no encryption or anything of the sort -- are you kidding me?!
cui bono
(19,926 posts)Maybe they can be the moderators.
.
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Her default reaction is to lie, but it sounds like the FBI has already crossed their Ts and dotted their Is. Does she plead the 5th? We know she won't tell the truth. What we do know is that whatever happens it will be leaked.
global1
(25,242 posts)HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Logical
(22,457 posts)HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)But it won't help. The FBI is doing their homework, they'll already know the truthfull answers to the questions they're asking. If she cooperates things will go easier for her. But cooperating with an investigation is not the Clinton way.
amborin
(16,631 posts)Last edited Mon Mar 28, 2016, 12:28 AM - Edit history (1)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511468802during the hearings.....will she lie to the FBI, too?
news the other day about a recently released email showed she had apparently lied under oath
about when she started using the private server
aren't the statements in the last paragraph, from WAPO, grounds for a felony conviction?
gordianot
(15,237 posts)Even if it is a misdemeanor she is no longer the Secretary of State.
amborin
(16,631 posts)A Clinton campaign spokesman alleged I. Charles McCullough III, the inspector general for intelligence agencies, was intentionally leaking seemingly damaging information in collusion with Senate Republicans.
But McCullough is hardly an obvious target for that accusation. An Obama appointee, he was approved in the position back in 2011 with unanimous consent by a majority-Democratic Senate.
http://www.wibc.com/news/national/hillary-clinton-inspector-general-leaking-info-help-republicans
rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)TheFarS1de
(1,017 posts)Especially when that individual has no access to the relevant charges and documentation . I thought the HC camp said this wouldn't even get to this stage so excuse me if I disregard this piece of guesswork , that is already out of date .
blueintelligentsia
(507 posts)Peace Patriot
(24,010 posts)...and not the private server itself, is likely the focus of this FBI investigation. And it is so bad--Clinton okaying arms deals with 20 countries that gave big bucks to the Clinton Foundation--it would be enough to drive any candidate for any public office--let alone president of the U.S.--out of the campaign in utter disgrace, in a normal democracy.
Not sure this can be called a normal democracy any more. I mean, look what happened to Bush, Cheney & Rumsfeld, et al, for slaughtering a hundred thousand innocent people and stealing billions from government coffers. Nada, Nada, and Nada, et al.
I just don't think the FBI would have 150 agents on a matter that was only about classification errors or potential security/spying risks.
HOWEVER, the question in my mind is this: Is this FBI investigation for real? (If it is, she is in big trouble, in my opinion.) Or is this FBI investigation in truth an effort to protect Clinton from the nutball Right in Congress? And maybe this: Both--that is, the FBI, the AG and maybe Obama and Obama's advisers are divided about it--some want to prosecute, some don't.
A reason for NOT prosecuting (if the evidence warrants an indictment) would be to protect Obama's legacy from ending on a big scandal--and possibly the political motive of not wanting such a serious reformer as Bernie Sanders in the White House. (Remember Obama is pro-TPP and oversaw the Bailout.)
There may be another factor in this complex equation: I suspect that Obama is very ticked off at Clinton for several reasons. One of them was her early sabotage of Obama's intention to improve relations with Latin America. The Honduran coup (June '09--only six months into his first term, with Clinton as Sec of State) stopped those efforts cold. All of LatAm was outraged and everybody knew of the U.S. complicity. (I was following those events closely at the time. The near universal reaction in LatAm was "same old, same old USA--overthrowing our governments" . It has taken him SEVEN YEARS to overcome that Clinton disaster--with his recent visit to Cuba and Obama/Kerry's support for the Colombia/FARC peace talks.
Another reason for Obama anger at Clinton, recently come to light via the email disclosures, is her use of Sydney Blumenthal as a State Dept. advisor. Obama had stated explicitly that he did NOT want Blumenthal in the State Dept. She sneaked around this Obama order by hiring Blumenthal for big bucks at the Clinton Foundation and then using her private server to communicate with him about foreign policy including Libya. And that is the third reason for likely Obama anger at Clinton. Her advice about overthrowing Gaddaffi was wrong and ill thought out, and has resulted in a huge disaster in Libya, Syria and Iraq (vacuums of power into which IS has moved). ('Ill thought out' unless it was coming from Robert (PNAC) Kagan and Henry Kissinger in which case the GOAL was to destabilize the ME, as prep for more all out war.)
(And I believe Obama and Clinton also differed about Iran--she a hawk; he wanting to give peace a chance. He won that argument after she left the State Dept. I may be underestimating the continuity of U.S. foreign policy on this--i.e., a bad cop/good cop U.S.strategy. But in view of the other Clinton disasters and Clinton/Obama disagreements, these could possibly include strategy on Iran.)
If I'm right about Obama anger at Clinton, then maybe he WON'T intervene to save her from an indictment (if the FBI recommends it). It's hard to guess about these matters, since the investigation, of course, is behind the scenes (and has top secret issues involved), and since Obama is a hard man to read. (It took me years to come to the 99% conclusion that Honduras had been Clinton's doing, not Obama's, and I'm still not entirely sure.)
Clinton's not hard to read, though--in my opinion, anyway. I think she was amassing money for buying endorsements and delegates by using her position as Sec of State to gather in large donations from countries with deals pending before the State Dept. The Clinton Foundation is not a "charity," in my view. It is a money machine for buying the presidency.
If any Clinton supporter is genuinely interested in WHY many of us Sanders supporters are so disgusted with Clinton and so passionate about putting a CLEAN president in the White House, they will give this matter some study. We are NOT rightwing nutballs. We don't care about "Benghazi, Benghazi," or Monica, or Whitewater or any of that lunacy. We loathe that lunacy. THIS is NOT lunacy. We do not want this REAL corruption in our party or in the White House. And we are very worried, indeed, about Clinton's close connection to Kagan and Kissinger.
awake
(3,226 posts)Well done you brought a lot in to clear focus.
passy
(853 posts)A presidential pardon. Obama is bound to find out quickly what the FBI has on her and could consider issuing a presidential pardon or commutation just before he leaves office. Of course this would mean the case will have to be processed rather quickly but it's not impossible. It would ressemble Bush's commutation of Scooter Libby's sentence.
This would no doubt hurt Obama's legacy amongst some Democrats but for repubs it wouldn't make a difference as they already see him as a foreigner and a traitor anyway.
As you mention Blumenthal I am reminded of the article about his e-mails to her about the situation in Sudan, information that clearly appears to be highly confidential or top-secret and coming directly from the NSA, information that surely should not be sent through a personal server. How Blumenthal got hold of that information is surely part of the FBI case.
What is going to be interesting is to see how this all ties up with the Clinton Foundation. In which way did hers or Blumenthal's access help the Clintons in their dealings with donors worldwide, how much secret info did they have when talking to politicians, presidents or business leaders?
John Poet
(2,510 posts)FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)Even a "Slap on the Wrist" means she can no longer hold a Security clearance.
Can you imagine the field day Trump would have - 24-7 "Why elect a President who doesn't have the clearance to read the Daily Presidential Briefing"
joshcryer
(62,270 posts)EdwardBernays
(3,343 posts)On the politico and Hill story related to this are basically people saying this is Benghazi redux ie another fake politically driven scandal. I guess no one told the FBI.
TheFarS1de
(1,017 posts)...according to one particular camp .
Dem2
(8,168 posts)It's called due diligence, they have to make it look thorough least it be called a political whitewash. Yes, I realize the extremes on the left and right will call it that anyway, but you can't please everybody.
awake
(3,226 posts)Lying to the FBI and it did not take years. I think the FBI already knows the facts and if Hillary try's to mislead them then the hammer will come down hard and fast.
Vinca
(50,269 posts)If we go into the general election with this over our heads we're cooked.
EdwardBernays
(3,343 posts)Do whatever is best for the country.
Response to EdwardBernays (Original post)
Vattel This message was self-deleted by its author.
pinebox
(5,761 posts)They just tied Bernie's wins over the weekend to Hillary emails and how interviews are beginning along with how she ignored security warnings on her Blackberry consistently.
Here we go. Now they are tying it all together.
She's toast.
SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts)JEB
(4,748 posts)"What would Kissinger do?"
RufusTFirefly
(8,812 posts)vdogg
(1,384 posts)Since Sanders supporters are too busy salivating to actually read the damn story.
Many legal experts believe that Clinton faces little risk of being prosecuted for using the private email system to conduct official business when she served as secretary of State, though that decision has raised questions among some about her judgment. They noted that using a private email system was not banned at the time, and others in government had used personal email to transact official business.
Proud Liberal Dem
(24,412 posts)get in the way of a good pile on/Hillary hate-fest? /s
EdwardBernays
(3,343 posts)I love the bit you didn't bold... very typical Clintonite...
In addition to that, the private server is one thing, stupid as it was, but endlessly using a blackberry, after beng told repeatedly that it was a security risk... not using proper security for months on your server, thinking that you know best when it comes to classification, and trying to subvert it because you're impatient... these aren't the hallmarks of a competent person, much less a good leader, much less a President... and the fact that her best defence is to try and make it out like it's all a big right-wing smear... ugh... it's so arrogant and absurd... take some personal responsibility... but look, this is someone that had no problem lying to Obama's face about being "transparent" with her Foundation's donor list... I don't expect much.
Herman4747
(1,825 posts)...BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE!!!
STOP THINKING ABOUT YOURSELF, AND START THINKING ABOUT THE NATION!!!
arcane1
(38,613 posts)NOT what I want in a so-called "leader". This isn't some banana republic. Not yet, anyway.
polly7
(20,582 posts)private emails to and from Blumenthal against Obama's wishes? She pushed Obama on Libya - did his reluctance drive her to resorting to secrecy? She needs to answer for all of this shit - hundreds of thousands of human beings are having their lives destroyed.