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bravenak

(34,648 posts)
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 02:20 AM Mar 2016

Sorry, People. Hillary Will Not Be Indicted

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2016/03/21/law-professor-explains-why-hillary-clinton-wont/209438

I see that some people this primary season are banking on a Hillary indictment to stop her from becoming Our Nominee. Such sillyness to think she would even still be running if she were guilty of a crime and ready to be indicted. The right wing always stirs up some DRAMA and makes it out to be a high crime or something sinister. I have been hearing about her forthcoming arrest since I was a kid. Never happened.
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Sorry, People. Hillary Will Not Be Indicted (Original Post) bravenak Mar 2016 OP
KNR Lucinda Mar 2016 #1
Oh look, more musings from Wall Street's favorite spin doctor, David Brock! JonLeibowitz Mar 2016 #2
How about DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2016 #18
How about those articles angrychair Mar 2016 #48
Yup NWCorona Mar 2016 #50
That's what I find most damning: It's on Brock's site, which is almost like coming from the campaign itself thesquanderer Mar 2016 #49
good points ky_dem Mar 2016 #88
kicking this important post rbrnmw Mar 2016 #3
Thank you. This issue is important to me. bravenak Mar 2016 #4
I just hope people understand where this stuff comes from rbrnmw Mar 2016 #5
The right wingers bravenak Mar 2016 #6
Message auto-removed Name removed Mar 2016 #70
K&R. TexasTowelie Mar 2016 #7
I agree. bravenak Mar 2016 #8
Oh, I don't "wonder" about it at all. n/t NanceGreggs Mar 2016 #9
Psst. TexasTowelie Mar 2016 #10
Pssst ... NanceGreggs Mar 2016 #11
Pot meet Kettle.. Avalon Sparks Mar 2016 #15
I always found it ironic that someone takes a shot at someone and then ends it with "Peace" DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2016 #19
Nope, not odd at all DemonGoddess Mar 2016 #46
Nope. Neither liberals nor Democrats. Oh, Hortensis Mar 2016 #83
How is it Bernie's only chance? NWCorona Mar 2016 #55
What if she is guilty noiretextatique Mar 2016 #72
Knr ericson00 Mar 2016 #12
Exactly. Rightwingers always say crazy stuff about her. bravenak Mar 2016 #13
So did the GOP TeddyR Mar 2016 #29
There were no rules AGAINST using a private server Dr Hobbitstein Mar 2016 #35
I stand corrected TeddyR Mar 2016 #63
Nopety nope nope. ucrdem Mar 2016 #14
Yep bravenak Mar 2016 #16
Enormous K & R. Thanks for posting. Surya Gayatri Mar 2016 #17
. bravenak Mar 2016 #20
4th in line to the presidency. joshcryer Mar 2016 #21
Thank you! bravenak Mar 2016 #68
Oh look! More propaganda from the guy who destroyed Anita Hill... berni_mccoy Mar 2016 #22
K&R. Hoping Sanders is given the nomination because Hillary gets indicted lunamagica Mar 2016 #23
Why is this Republican wet dream being promoted on a Democratic forum in the first place? baldguy Mar 2016 #24
Because, if Trump is the GOP nominee, we don't need an October surprise from the FBI. Vinca Mar 2016 #28
Bullshit. This is exactly the same as all the other Clinton "scandals". baldguy Mar 2016 #32
I don't hate the Clintons, but I guess that's a good talking point for you. Vinca Mar 2016 #34
I thought Democrats would have learned by now, too mcar Mar 2016 #45
Lots of rightwing memes have been pushed on DU this year. ieoeja Mar 2016 #74
Yeah, I wish the Sanders campaign would stop makng them true. baldguy Mar 2016 #86
"Based on what has been revealed so far..." Barack_America Mar 2016 #25
The professor does not know. He is not privy to what mmonk Mar 2016 #26
Time to buy more "expert opinion"... Barack_America Mar 2016 #38
I'm sure there's another professor or two. mmonk Mar 2016 #41
Wow - I didn't realize you were an FBI agent. Vinca Mar 2016 #27
My post politely debunking the law professors position appears to have been Jarqui Mar 2016 #30
There are legitimate reasons to be skeptical of Hillary's candidacy ... salinsky Mar 2016 #31
Hillary said she was mistaken to have done this. Barack_America Mar 2016 #40
She's not going to jail Setsuna1972 Mar 2016 #33
Hillary Clinton will not be indicted Gothmog Mar 2016 #36
Thanks. I hope some Hillary haters read this. LAS14 Mar 2016 #37
Disgusting... Anything by David Brock goes right in the trash, and people who keep him as company... GeorgiaPeanuts Mar 2016 #39
I agree David doesn't have a track record that gives me warm and fuzzies. floriduck Mar 2016 #56
K&R! DemonGoddess Mar 2016 #42
It's sad that some Democrats are falling for RW spin mcar Mar 2016 #43
Yes, I hate to see it. bravenak Mar 2016 #65
No, she will not. ismnotwasm Mar 2016 #44
Me too bravenak Mar 2016 #66
The revolution will succeed at any cost! By default, if necessary. randome Mar 2016 #47
Mediamatters hasn't been a reliable source in regards NWCorona Mar 2016 #51
Sure, because her sleazey spin machine says so. Waiting For Everyman Mar 2016 #52
I hope everyone that ever emailed her knew not to send sensitive content KeepItReal Mar 2016 #53
Having a clearance is a pain in the ass. jeff47 Mar 2016 #57
I agree Dem2 Mar 2016 #54
While you are probably correct that she won't be indicted... ljm2002 Mar 2016 #58
K&R rock Mar 2016 #59
Yeah, it's silly. I think some Bernie supporters got caught up in it and didn't realize they BreakfastClub Mar 2016 #60
Bookmarked frylock Mar 2016 #61
Yeah, it's 'silly' to think someone would be guilty of a crime *and* run for political office. Marr Mar 2016 #62
Nice capital letter placement. Says a lot DebDoo Mar 2016 #64
More bad news for the 'Not Hillary' Party. onehandle Mar 2016 #67
I keep asking: Is the FBI a rw talking point? noiretextatique Mar 2016 #73
Message auto-removed Name removed Mar 2016 #69
Maybe not but the mere fact she's in this situation should be troubling to voters ThePhilosopher04 Mar 2016 #71
Not really. They have been attacking her for years bravenak Mar 2016 #75
Sad But True corbettkroehler Mar 2016 #76
so sad that that's where the bar is set for your candidate. yodermon Mar 2016 #77
So we think Obama would rather.... Jennylynn Mar 2016 #78
This post makes no sense bravenak Mar 2016 #79
Did I misunderstand? Jennylynn Mar 2016 #82
What is Obama supposed to do exactly? bravenak Mar 2016 #84
Actually nothing Jennylynn Mar 2016 #87
Hey Ms. Cleo! insta8er Mar 2016 #80
Whatever bravenak Mar 2016 #85
If it comes from both Brock and Bravenak, you know it's true!!!!111! DisgustipatedinCA Mar 2016 #81
privilege JEB Mar 2016 #89
Even Cheney wasn't indicted! delrem Mar 2016 #90
Why are you sorry? nichomachus Mar 2016 #91

JonLeibowitz

(6,282 posts)
2. Oh look, more musings from Wall Street's favorite spin doctor, David Brock!
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 02:28 AM
Mar 2016


No mention of 18 USC, Section 2071 though. Rather a superficial analysis I must conclude, but of course that was the entire point.

angrychair

(8,699 posts)
48. How about those articles
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 09:16 AM
Mar 2016

and the information in them, are 7+ months old from people that have no actual connection to the investigation. Not worth the pixels they are written in.

thesquanderer

(11,986 posts)
49. That's what I find most damning: It's on Brock's site, which is almost like coming from the campaign itself
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 10:42 AM
Mar 2016

As I posted elsewhere, even if things get far enough to potentially implicate her, I think she probably gets off on "plausible deniability." The article linked here almost says as much, in the section where it italicizes "knowingly and willfully" and points out that that's the most important part.

So the content doesn't surprise me... but the placement does.

Imagine if this were posted on Hillary's campaign site, with the headline, "Here's why I will not be indicted." Absurd, right? The mere appearance of such a headline on her site would be a disaster. But here they have put it on David Brock's site, which, considering the relationship between Brock and the campaign, is barely one step removed from being on the campaign's own site.

Honestly, I think if there was no "there" there, the "pushback" wouldn't be so "legitimized" by being publicly put forth by basically a campaign spokesperson. In the last debate, Hillary took the more sensible path against the question of indictment, basically saying she wouldn't even dignify it with an answer. And sure, I wouldn't be surprised if there were "behind the scenes" working of the press to privately put forth the kinds of things mentioned in the article at Brock's site. But for a campaign spokesperson to publicly put this kind of stuff out there makes me think they're more concerned about this than they have let on.

And the article itself isn't so great for Hillary, either. For example:

No matter how sensitive the information, if no one has taken steps to classify it, the rules for safeguarding classified information cannot be violated despite the harm that might be caused by disclosure.

IOW, even if the SOS does not adequately safeguard sensitive information--even if it causes harm!--that's not necessarily criminal as long as it wasn't marked as such, so someone could essentially get off on that technicality. Even if that's true (which has been debated elsewhere), *that's* the person we want to elect?

Or how about this one:

Clinton's optimism that she will not be criminally charged appears justified. The same is not necessarily true of those who sent her classified information. If it could be shown that they knowingly acquired information from classified sources and sent it unmarked to an unapproved server, their fate may be less kind than Clinton's is likely to be.

So it is the responsibility of the individual sending the material, not just to properly classify it, but to confirm they are sending it to an approved, secure address (i.e. not to send it to "an unapproved server&quot ? Seriously, wouldn't one assume that the one and only address you have for reaching the SOS would be an approved and secure one? If it isn't, whose fault is that?

Really, some of these lines in her "defense" don't really make things sound so good for her, either. Heck, even "plausible deniability," while a perfectly good legal defense, is not exactly "the buck stops here."
 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
6. The right wingers
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 02:42 AM
Mar 2016

They are truly sick people. I try not to read rightwing nonsense, but I see it being tossed around the web. Best to refute it.

Response to bravenak (Reply #4)

TexasTowelie

(112,180 posts)
7. K&R.
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 02:46 AM
Mar 2016

When the only hope for your candidate to win is for the opponent to be indicted it makes you wonder about whether those people are Democrats to begin with.

NanceGreggs

(27,814 posts)
11. Pssst ...
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 03:02 AM
Mar 2016

I know.

But isn't it strange how obvious it's all been from the beginning - and how certain people just keep looking the other way?

DemonGoddess

(4,640 posts)
46. Nope, not odd at all
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 09:10 AM
Mar 2016

It's the hope that "peace" means that one won't get upset at the continuation of the RWNJ spewing.

Mind you, I've been observing the RW smear machine at work against both Hillary and her husband for years. Of course, they've failed MISERABLY, and will continue to.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
83. Nope. Neither liberals nor Democrats. Oh,
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 07:27 PM
Mar 2016

some may have despised both for years as registered Democrats in some sort of dysfunctional masochistic version of "involvement," and been too clueless to leave.

Hopefully this is a long-delayed learning experience and they will go on to find a more sympathetic party to wallow in anti-Democrats, anti- America, anti-liberal, and anti- everything Democrats support negativism.

 

ericson00

(2,707 posts)
12. Knr
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 03:26 AM
Mar 2016

Any one who peddles the idea that she will be indicted needs to go GOP or play stay the f out of America's body politic.

 

TeddyR

(2,493 posts)
29. So did the GOP
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 07:56 AM
Mar 2016

Order the FBI to investigate Hillary's decision to blatantly ignore the rules and use a private server?

 

Dr Hobbitstein

(6,568 posts)
35. There were no rules AGAINST using a private server
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 08:18 AM
Mar 2016

when she used a private server. So, no rules were broken.

 

TeddyR

(2,493 posts)
63. I stand corrected
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 11:45 AM
Mar 2016

There were no written rules against using a private server, simply disregard for security concerns. From the WaPo story:

Security remained a constant concern. On June 28, 2011, in response to reports that Gmail accounts of government workers had been targeted by “online adversaries,” a note went out over Clinton’s name urging department employees to “avoid conducting official Department business from your personal email accounts.”

But she herself ignored the warning and continued using her BlackBerry and the basement server.

joshcryer

(62,270 posts)
21. 4th in line to the presidency.
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 05:57 AM
Mar 2016

We're not a banana republic. We're not a Latin American despot. We're not a Soviet State. Clinton fucked up. Probably pretty bad. But she didn't do anything illegal. It's possible to fuck up without committing a crime.

 

berni_mccoy

(23,018 posts)
22. Oh look! More propaganda from the guy who destroyed Anita Hill...
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 06:16 AM
Mar 2016

Mr. David Brock himself, James O'Keefe's mentor.

lunamagica

(9,967 posts)
23. K&R. Hoping Sanders is given the nomination because Hillary gets indicted
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 07:18 AM
Mar 2016

is beyond pathetic. Just shows this man can't win on his own merits.

Thank you for posting this important information, Bravenak

Vinca

(50,271 posts)
28. Because, if Trump is the GOP nominee, we don't need an October surprise from the FBI.
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 07:44 AM
Mar 2016

She needs to be cleared or charged, ASAP. Democrats running a candidate in the general election with this baggage is the Republican wet dream.

 

baldguy

(36,649 posts)
32. Bullshit. This is exactly the same as all the other Clinton "scandals".
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 08:13 AM
Mar 2016

A whole lot of smoke created by the RW, which they try to lay at the feet of the Clintons. I'd have thought Democrats would have learned to recognize RW feces by now.

I guess unseasoned Clinton hatred, planted by the Arkansas Project & cultivated over 30 yrs, knows no bounds.

Vinca

(50,271 posts)
34. I don't hate the Clintons, but I guess that's a good talking point for you.
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 08:17 AM
Mar 2016

Since you seem to have inside information on the investigation, could you explain why 100+ agents are wasting their time on this? I thought it was BS, too, until the FBI got involved. I always thought the FBI was overworked and understaffed, but maybe they needed a hobby, right?

 

ieoeja

(9,748 posts)
74. Lots of rightwing memes have been pushed on DU this year.
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 02:01 PM
Mar 2016

Liberals are out of touch, wealthy White elitists.

Liberals don't really care about African-Americans and have never really done anything for them.

People only vote Democratic to get free stuff.

Single-payer healthcare is impossible.



It's become FP with better grammar.



mmonk

(52,589 posts)
26. The professor does not know. He is not privy to what
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 07:40 AM
Mar 2016

the FBI knows or has. There seems to have been an effort to evade scrutiny. There are persons involved who have dual jobs and paymasters. We will have to see.

Barack_America

(28,876 posts)
38. Time to buy more "expert opinion"...
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 08:39 AM
Mar 2016

...to counter these newest FBI leaks.

Gee, do you think the FBI didn't like being told they weren't going to recommend indictment?

Vinca

(50,271 posts)
27. Wow - I didn't realize you were an FBI agent.
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 07:42 AM
Mar 2016

Won't you get into trouble for talking about the investigation with such certainty on the Internet?

Jarqui

(10,125 posts)
30. My post politely debunking the law professors position appears to have been
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 08:04 AM
Mar 2016

deleted by the dishonest David Brock site.

In short, this exclusive legal premise "whoever knowingly and willfully" is shallow and flawed with respect to the wide number of criminal laws Hillary is exposed to. It overlooks the word "negligence" appearing five times in the executive order she signed off on in her nondisclosure agreements and it ignores that same word coming up in the criminal laws linked in those same nondisclosure agreements.

It also overlooks definitions of intent like in Title 18, sec 1924 "knowingly removes such documents or materials without authority and with the intent to retain such documents or materials at an unauthorized location" That's what CIA Director Deutch agreed to plead guilty to for having classified material on his home computers.

When 2,100+ emails are found to have classified info in them and a number of those were NOT classified retroactively (ie with phrases like "Sudan Intel" or "extremely sensitive&quot , the denial of knowingly becomes a very improbable stretch to accept and the balance of the phrase "intent to retain such documents or materials at an unauthorized location" is very difficult to refute.

And it ignores the other federal laws where whether knowing the information is classified or not doesn't enter into it.

If it was so easy to dismiss Hillary, they would not have bothered as many as 150 FBI agents and the two Inspector Generals who called the FBI in to look at this after reviewing it for a couple of months, for a year or more.

Things happen for a reason. You don't get that many law enforcement people gawking at something like this for that long if all of them have figured out as quickly as this law professor (probably working for the Clinton campaign) that there is nothing to see here.

This is just the Clinton campaign working the media to deceive the American people like they always have.

salinsky

(1,065 posts)
31. There are legitimate reasons to be skeptical of Hillary's candidacy ...
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 08:04 AM
Mar 2016

... it took me a while to come around to the conclusion that she is the most qualified and best choice.

But, when you are reduced to delving into the cesspool of rightwing talking points, your motivations have become more than merely suspect.

Setsuna1972

(332 posts)
33. She's not going to jail
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 08:17 AM
Mar 2016

After hoe many investigations and millions spent on trying to find any incriminating evidence, it's time for people to stop placing their hopes on a false story . Nothing's going to happen .

Gothmog

(145,231 posts)
36. Hillary Clinton will not be indicted
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 08:23 AM
Mar 2016

There is no evidence of knowledge or gross negligence in this case

 

GeorgiaPeanuts

(2,353 posts)
39. Disgusting... Anything by David Brock goes right in the trash, and people who keep him as company...
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 08:41 AM
Mar 2016

They will never get my vote.

 

floriduck

(2,262 posts)
56. I agree David doesn't have a track record that gives me warm and fuzzies.
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 11:01 AM
Mar 2016

If I read the material from a respected source, I'd at least give it consideration. But Brock made his bed years ago as a Republican operative. And his words and actions since have given me no reason to do anything but completely discount him. In fact, Hillarys decision to utilize his services in her campaign made me even less willing to want to support her.

ismnotwasm

(41,980 posts)
44. No, she will not.
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 09:09 AM
Mar 2016

Nor is there any reason for her to be. I'll be soooo glad when the primaries are over. I feel like my sig-line every time I peek in here.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
47. The revolution will succeed at any cost! By default, if necessary.
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 09:11 AM
Mar 2016

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Everything is a satellite to some other thing.[/center][/font][hr]

Waiting For Everyman

(9,385 posts)
52. Sure, because her sleazey spin machine says so.
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 10:50 AM
Mar 2016

Meanwhile, back in the real world...

I've seen this movie before. It was called "All The President's Men".

Only this time, the guilty politician won't get elected to get impeached. She's going down, and Dems with a grain of sense aren't going with her. That would be most of them.

KeepItReal

(7,769 posts)
53. I hope everyone that ever emailed her knew not to send sensitive content
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 10:51 AM
Mar 2016

*They* would be in trouble for knowingly transmitting classified info to an unsecured email account belonging to the Secretary of State.


jeff47

(26,549 posts)
57. Having a clearance is a pain in the ass.
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 11:21 AM
Mar 2016

If you happen to know anyone with a clearance, email them something Manning or Snowden leaked. You'll ruin their week.

Dem2

(8,168 posts)
54. I agree
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 10:54 AM
Mar 2016

Try convincing those who feel that the only way for a particular candidate to win is to disqualify the other candidate.

She'll be indicted!

She's cheating!

That is NOT the grown-up way to promote one's candidate.

ljm2002

(10,751 posts)
58. While you are probably correct that she won't be indicted...
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 11:22 AM
Mar 2016

...it may be more about our two-tiered justice system than about actual culpability.

This report from CBS News is from way back in January:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/state-department-releases-more-clinton-emails-several-marked-classified/

But in one email exchange between Clinton and staffer Jake Sullivan from June 17, 2011, the then-secretary advised her aide on sending a set of talking points by email when he had trouble sending them through secure means.

Part of the exchange is redacted, so the context of the emails is unknown, but at one point, Sullivan tells Clinton that aides "say they've had issues sending secure fax. They're working on it."

Clinton responds, "If they can't, turn into nonpaper w no identifying heading and send nonsecure."


It's unclear whether the talking points themselves contained classified information. Typically, talking points are used for unclassified purposes (e.g. speaking with the media). But in some cases, the material contained in such memos may still be sensitive -- especially if the report originates from intelligence agencies.


So: her aide tells her they can't send a document securely, and she responds that he should remove the markings and send it non-securely. Now as the article also points out, the talking points may not have been "really" classified (although they were marked -- makes no sense to me, but whatever). So we don't know if they were "really" classified or not, and neither does Prof. Lempert. The FBI will, though. And if they were, that right there is a big smoking gun: it would be hard to deny that her actions were done "knowingly and willfully" in this exchange.

I will also point out that she insisted on using her Blackberry in spite of several warnings that it is an insecure device. She refused to use a laptop in her office because she wanted everything to go through the Blackberry. Sec. Powell did keep a secure laptop in his office, and used it exclusively for all classified communications. So she can't use the "but all the other SOS's did it too!" defense here.

She's not out of the woods yet, however devoutly you may wish it. Even without an indictment, there may be damage inflicted.

And BTW I am neither hoping that she gets indicted, nor counting on it as a way for Bernie to win. Just pointing out that things are not nearly as rosy as the Professor and you would like us to believe.

BreakfastClub

(765 posts)
60. Yeah, it's silly. I think some Bernie supporters got caught up in it and didn't realize they
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 11:32 AM
Mar 2016

were being fooled by the right wing. Right wingers have been at this game for decades. It's sad to see democrats get tricked by it though. They should know better, but I guess they don't.

DebDoo

(319 posts)
64. Nice capital letter placement. Says a lot
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 11:45 AM
Mar 2016

"I see that some people this primary season are banking on a Hillary indictment to stop her from becoming Our Nominee."

What's next? The royal We?


onehandle

(51,122 posts)
67. More bad news for the 'Not Hillary' Party.
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 01:04 PM
Mar 2016

The 'debunked common right-wing talking points' are also their talking points.

Funny, that.

Response to bravenak (Original post)

yodermon

(6,143 posts)
77. so sad that that's where the bar is set for your candidate.
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 03:16 PM
Mar 2016

"Not-Indicted" for president, 2016!!! Yeaargh!
So, so inspiring.

Jennylynn

(696 posts)
78. So we think Obama would rather....
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 06:03 PM
Mar 2016

,have the blemish of NOT doing his job? How'd that work out for Ford?

Jennylynn

(696 posts)
87. Actually nothing
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 08:54 PM
Mar 2016

It would be up to Loretta Lynch to indict her if the FBI recommends it. Some think he would try to sway LL in a different direction. It depends on how close he feels to Clinton I guess.

 

insta8er

(960 posts)
80. Hey Ms. Cleo!
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 06:08 PM
Mar 2016

You always know with such certainty all of the subjects you posts, that I cannot stop believing that you must be....Miss Cleo!

delrem

(9,688 posts)
90. Even Cheney wasn't indicted!
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 10:54 PM
Mar 2016

If you want to indict a politician you've gotta introduce sexual misbehavior.
That's politics 101.

But who knows the kind of misbehavior that a DEMOCRATIC SOCIALIST like Sanders might be accused of!
I hear some are writing OPs about how the commie engages in wife abuse, on stage. For all to see. In a video! Saying "discuss!" and getting plenty of hits.

That gets even more hits than the stuff about how the commie jew is ... tone deaf about race ... and how "white progressives" are akin to white supremacists.

That's even more strange.

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