Jaun Williams: Democrats live in fear Sanders will make a third-party run...like Nader in 2000

[HereSince1628]

The exact quote is:

Democrats live in fear of a him mounting a third-party run along the lines of the populist campaign run by Ralph Nader in 2000 that arguably gave the White House to George W. Bush.

http://thehill.com/opinion/juan-williams/274401-juan-williams-dems-must-pay-price-to-keep-sanders-sweet

The gist of Williams article is dems will have to commit to many of Sanders policy ideas to hold him, and his supporters through the general election. Williams suggests that this will result in

creating a permanent movement based inside the party for a living wage, for lower-cost college education and a sharper critique of Wall Street

So you Democrats on this board... Are living in fear of a Sanders third-party run? Are you ready to accept Sanders push for reform as a permanent movement inside the party?

[JackInGreen]

1. He won't, despite the desire for it from some

He's not a spoiler...

After the election however.....I smell a possible new party growing out of the soil from the grass roots up.

[revbones]

51. If Trump runs as a 3rd party, the dynamics change completely

And might open up things. Just saying "he's not a spoiler" isn't really applicable in that scenario. I don't see a "new party" growing out of anything less really.

[JackInGreen]

52. That's a consideration I wasn't factoring

But true

[brush]

55. It's possible but building a third party takes much more than . . .

running for president every four years like the Greens do.

Getting on ballots with all the petitions with the thousands of verifiable signatures that are needed require an actual ground organization with many volunteers and paid workers, not to mention tons of money. And this must be done for local school board positions, city council, mayor etc. on up to county, state and national offices — not easily done and will take years and many off-year, mid-term and presidential election cycles with petition signatures to get to a point of media play and national recognition. I mean who hears of the Greens except in passing but every four years?

Just appearing every four years to run for the highest office in the land without doing all the ground work is, IMO, the height of hubris.

[Umbral18]

2. I'm not the least bit afraid of any third party candidacies. nt

[TheCowsCameHome]

3. No way would Bernie Sanders do that.

The whole idea is ridiculous.

[Sky Masterson]

4. He works for Fox News

Plus he is full of shit on this

[Ken Burch]

5. Let's just do what we need to do to keep that from happening.

Even if HRC supporters have no reason to object to the party embracing the Sanders movement's ideals, if doing that ensures her victory in the fall.

Nobody to the right of HRC's own current campaign rhetoric is ever going to vote Democratic anyway. Certainly nobody who wants unions kept down or who believes the poor should be blamed for their own poverty ever would.

[Tarc]

6. The difference is that Nader never ran for the Democratic nomination

If I recall, he started out with a nomination by a Vermont state party, then the Greens later.

[lagomorph777]

7. Juan Williams is a Fox employee

He's terrified of Sanders, because only Sanders can beat every potential GOP nominee. So he tries to poison Dem voter opinions. He's an outsider who can be safely dismissed.

[brooklynite]

8. Simple reason why Sanders WON'T run a third Party campaign...

...he won't have time. If he campaigns for the Democratic nomination up to the Convention, he'll miss too many deadlines to register as an Independent. The only way he'd be able to run is if a standing Third Party gave him their nomination.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

53. He is a man of his word, he said no, so no is no. He may start

a 3rd party in December, however.

[HereSince1628]

9. Ok, to all first 7 replies...what about the need for Dems to commit to Sanders' ideas?

None of you think he's gonna run third-party, but is there a need, in order to secure from anxiety, or to actually secure the Dem base, to commit to Sanders calls for reform and establish a reform movement inside the party?

I think there actually are Sanders supporters who have bought into the need for a reforming political revolution, The discussion as it exists includes those who think it will be outside the party and others who believe that it should be inside the party.

Is the political revolution Sanders calls for in his stump speeches, something that can be shrugged off as campaign rhetoric or does it have legs that will walk it forward?

[Armstead]

12. There should be, but I think the problem is the contradictions in approach

What Sanders stands for -- true "bottom up" representative democracy is at odds with the "top down" elitist bent of Clinton and the DLC.

You can't go after crooks and oligarchs while taking their money.

I hope that can be reconciled, but I'm not sure how.

[jwirr]

64. Yes, if the Clinton Third Way supporters and the establishment

want to keep the party together after November then yes there had better be some changes. I am a lifelong Democrat - five years old when FDR died and voted first time for JFK - and I am still an FDR Democrat. I am a progressive.

And even I will not stay if we are not going to fight for Bernie's ideals. And maybe even more important I will not stay if Hillary wins using dirty tricks and DWS does not resign.

The party I remember was for the people - they created programs that worked for all the people not just the rich. I do not remember anything that the Clintons did that helped any of us. They came in and changed the party to R light. I do not belong to any R party.

I would like to see the change come from within the party but I do not see Hillary doing anything different than she and Bill did in the 90s nor do I see the DNC or the Super-Delegates acting in the best interest of all the people. I see no real change from 1980s.

A lot of us cannot continue to vote for business as usual. It is killing our party and it is killing our country.

[HereSince1628]

65. Do you think that would establish a reform movement inside the party?

[jwirr]

68. The way things stand right now I do not think it would. We

might get a few perks but I do not think the corporatists are going to stop until they have total control.

They are the ones I am afraid of.

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

10. There are two parts to this:

1) Bernie will not run as a third party candidate. He has said he wouldn't and explained that not wanting to be a spoiler is a big part of why he ran as a Democrat

2) If he doesn't win the nomination, the Democratic party can be DAMN sure that we, his supporters, will be demanding to be included in the conversation if they want our votes.

[Tom Rinaldo]

11. A more valid fear is that Sanders ether won't try or won't be able to deliver much of his support...

...to Hillary if he doesn't win the nomination himself UNLESS the Democratic Party makes a convincing effort to meaningfully back much of his core platform. THAT is something the DNC should worry about. Sanders will back Clinton over a Republican but he is just too damn obvious about what he sincerely believes to whip up major enthusiasm for politics as usual.

[Bread and Circus]

20. ^^^ agree

[gollygee]

13. Sanders is 1) not stupid and 2) a good guy. So no, it won't happen.

Nader is an egotist. Not such a good guy.

[LuvLoogie]

14. That's up to him and his supporters . He joined the party.

He has already admitted that the Democratic party is the best vehicle for his mantra. It remains to be seen whether he and his supporters are content to build consensus or come instead with a list of demands.

I think Bernie will try to find any excuse to go back to Vermont an Independent after having used the Democratic infrastructure. If he does try a 3rd party run, he won't succeed, and his new Berniecrats will devolve into wandering factions.

The Democratic party would rebuild.

edited to add: If he does come with demands, he will find that 90% of them will already have been in the Democratic platform for years with thousands of elected Democrats having worked at achieving those goals.

[JoePhilly]

15. Not going to happen.

When did Juan leave Fox news?

[MineralMan]

16. No, we don't. We take Bernie Sanders at his word.

He won't run as a third-party spoiler candidate. In fact, if he doesn't prevail in the primaries, he will endorse Hillary Clinton.

This meme is simply nonsense.

[Land of Enchantment]

17. Doubtful. very doubtful. he is going to win the nomination anyway. nt

[Nye Bevan]

18. No, Bernie is an honorable man who would never help the Republicans by doing this.

Should Hillary win the nomination, I am certain that Bernie will endorse her and urge his supporters to vote for her.

[CalvinballPro]

19. Post-convention will reveal Bernie's true character.

And whether or not this whole campaign has been one giant vanity project or not. If he takes Tad Devine's inevitable advice and goes third-party, it means he's breaking a promise he made last year not to do that very thing. How does he maintain an aura of integrity if he so openly goes back on his given word?

I still maintain his "movement" is aiming at the wrong branch of government. I can't take them seriously while they ignore the role of Congress in all of everything. You want a President to sign progressive laws? A progressive Congress has to pass some first!! FCOL, this is Civics 101.

[Loki]

25. He doesn't maintain any credibility if that happens.

Watching the posturing and the rhetoric of the last campaign cycle, reminds me just how little some people are informed of how government works, and the important significance of down ballot races and gaining ground in the house and senate. Without it, the only way any thing that Mr. Sander's would accomplish would be to become a dictator. If they think obstruction has been bad for the past 8 years, they ain't seen nothing yet if the makeup of the two houses doesn't change and change dramatically. Without supporting those races, and only concentrating on his own, he is ignoring this fact at his own peril and frankly, being a Senator for all those years, I have to ask, "Why"?

[inchhigh]

21. 3rd Party by default

I just dont know whether Bernie would formally go third party but i almost think it doesnt matter. There is a large committed group that will only vote for him. Of the 16 delegates in my precinct, 11 said they will only vote for him in the general. there was no confidence that a party lead by Hillary and the DNC will make meaningful concessions to the pro-labor wing. The ONLY way to avoid the split is to nominate Bernie.

[ViseGrip]

22. I will never fear Sanders doing what is right, when the time comes

he'll weight it out. That is why some things just won't be forgotten. Can't even spell it out here, or I'll get another hide.

[Nonhlanhla]

23. Juan Williams?

If he thinks Bernie will launch a third party run, then I feel pretty reassured that Bernie WON'T do it.

[Orsino]

24. Therefore they don't.

That was easy.

[BeyondGeography]

26. Unlike Nader, Sanders won't be a destructive douche, because he isn't one

That doesn't mean he will be waving pom poms for HRC. Unfortunately, it also doesn't mean he'll be handled appropriately.

[timmymoff]

38. Nader wasn't destructive

What was destructive was the piss poor campaign ran by Al Gore. You can't blame Nader for Al Gore losing his home state of Tennessee. losing the state of a two term-president in which Gore was his vice, and losing 200,000 democrats to bush in Florida. Al Gore let George W Bush and Karl Rove define him, then he set out to prove them right. I get sick of this narrative when the real reason he lost was he tried to be the " me too" candidate instead of being a gd democrat.

[BeyondGeography]

42. GOP-funded Nader soaked up 95,000 votes in Florida

Gore could have run a better campaign, and the media from the NYT on down might have treated better, too (debate sighs, anyone?). It was a perfect storm, and Ralph did his part. That's why no one gave him the time of day when he tried a reprisal in 2004 or anytime since. It's also why no imitators have gotten to first base and why Bernie Sanders wouldn't think of it himself. Clear-headed people understand this.

[timmymoff]

46. I was saying

Nader wasn't the sole issue in 2000

[CrispyQ]

27. Sanders has said he won't do this & he won't

He knows a 3rd party run will throw the race to the repubs. He actually cares for the country & wants what's best for it. If HRC gets the nom, Sanders will get in line behind her. Now will his supporters? Who knows. The democratic party has moved steadily to the right while telling the left to shut up when they win & blaming the left when they lose. Now the chickens are coming home to roost & once again, the left gets the blame.

Obama's recent praise of DWS as a progressive leads me to believe the dems have no plan to change direction. They are quite happy being on the corporate gravy train. Yes, they will continue to throw us more crumbs than the repubs, but the train is not changing directions.

[HereSince1628]

29. It's not really a question of whether he would do it, it's a question whether democrats fear it.

There's a difference which apparently requires taking a moment.

And it's a question about whether establishment dems are willing to address the reform issues Sanders raises. Moreover, would such an acceptance lead to making the reform movement (aka Sanders' political revolution) a place inside the party

[rock]

28. He won't

He's a professional politician. Trump might, Bernie won't.

[Vinca]

30. Completely untrue.

Bernie has said multiple times he is running as a Democrat in order to avoid the Nader effect. Juan must be desperate for something new to write about.

[HereSince1628]

31. Yes, but what about the questions I asked?

Any feeling about those?

[Vinca]

34. No, I'm not in fear of it as it pertains to this election.

If Bernie happens to create a movement large enough to evolve into a VIABLE third party, I'd welcome it. The Democratic Party has been edging right for so long it left many of us behind long, long ago.

[HereSince1628]

36. So, you aren't the only dem, do you think others do? Do you think -they- well accept Sanders' issues

and by doing that create a permanent space for his reforms, aka political revolution?

[Vinca]

49. Possibly, but we've seen this play before.

Democrats tend to get hyper enthusiastic about a candidate and his or her ideas during an election, but once that's past it all goes by the wayside. I know Bernie and his issues are strong enough to sustain the building of something more, but people go back to their lives and forget about politics until the next election, so it's anyone's guess.

[Hugabear]

32. Trump is more likely to run as a third-party

If the GOP goes to a contested convention and nominates someone other than Trump, you can bet that he will run as a third-party candidate, and he will blame the GOP for "treating him badly".

Sanders, on the other hand, has already stated that he will support the Democratic nominee. Unlike Trump, he has not given any qualifications or conditions for his support, and I believe Sanders would not want to take the chance of handing the election over to the repugs.

[ucrdem]

33. If Bernie runs, Trump runs. We've got it covered.

[HereSince1628]

37. This thread actually asks about what dems would do to make Sanders/Sanders supports go for Hillary

Interesting how that's been consistently overlooked by so many.

[ucrdem]

39. They don't need to do anything. She's beating Trump. Jaun is wrong. nt

[HereSince1628]

41. Ok So Sanders voters get nothing for being near 50% of primary and caucus voters.

I expect that to be a huge step toward reconciliation.

[ucrdem]

44. If they're Dems they'll vote Dem. If they aren't they won't.

Ditto Bernie. The fact is he needs Dems more than they need him and Hillary is beating both of them.

[LuvLoogie]

50. They get to oppose the GOP.

[geek tragedy]

35. fox news analysis

he wouldn't get to keep his own voter contact files, so that ain't happening

[bigwillq]

40. I don't live in fear of democracy

I can't control what folks decide to do or not do, but I do support democracy. I'm all for letting the people decide, so I am not against 3rd party, 4th party, 5th party candidates. Our democracy is for the people, by the people, so let the people decide.

[ibegurpard]

43. He won't

But he sure as shit should. This primary has been a real eye-opener as to what the Democratic Party is all about...and it's NOT standing up for the working and middle classes.

[HereSince1628]

45. This post didn't actually ask that question.

It really asked

1) are dems (a judgment on dems as a group, rather than a personal view) really afraid of Sanders/Sanders supporters not supporting Clinton,

and

2) would Dems accept Sanders reformist (political revolution) policies and risk giving the dem reform movement a permanent place in the party as Williams suggests.

[jillan]

47. Who? And why do I even care what he says?

[HereSince1628]

48. Well, I cared about the 2 questions I asked re his comments.

But I understand your reply verbatim also works perfectly well for me.

[still_one]

54. Juan Williams who works for fox news telling us what Bernie will do. Uh, no he won't Juan

but nice try

[DonCoquixote]

56. he has already said he wont

unlike folks from the right like Bloomberg.

[HereSince1628]

57. Again, that's really not the purpose of the post, which is answers to the questions

1) Do some dems (Clinton supporters/establishment dems) really fear that?

2) Would accepting Sanders reform (political revolution) issues to reconcile with Sanders' supporters move a permanent reform movement inside the party?

[NorthCarolina]

58. He won't, but no guarantee that the people wouldn't embark on a

Bernie write-in campaign of their own accord.

[HereSince1628]

59. Yes, but what about the questions I asked?

Do some establishment dems/Clinton backers fear that?

Would trying to reconcile with Sanders supporters for the sake of party unity mean establishing Sanders revolution/reform movement inside the party

[NorthCarolina]

60. Of course they do. I'm pretty sure

establishment Dems fear everything Bernie. Bernie "informs" and that is what they fear the very most.

There is no reconcile in a revolution.

[HereSince1628]

61. Thnx

[jwirr]

67. Thank you for asking it clearly. I don't think the establishment

is scared yet but I am hoping they will be. Your question really needs to be asked of Hillary voters and supporters. Those of us who support Bernie do not fear him in any way.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

62. Hmmm...Sanders' word versus the word of a Fox News shill. Who should I believe?

I think I'll go with the guy who isn't a tool in the service of thugs.

[HereSince1628]

63. Well, it's not about Williams words, it's really about my questions

about his words, isn't it?

Do dems, particularly dems that don't support Sanders really fear his bolting?

Would accepting some of Sanders reform ideas as a way to reconcile Sanders supporters really establish a reform movement insider the democratic party?

[DisgustipatedinCA]

66. You're right--I did not address the question in your post.

As a Sanders supporter, I should have stated that I didn't feel eligible to answer your question, and that instead, I was commenting on Williams' words. I'm sorry for looking like I was pouncing on your OP. That wasn't my intention.