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global1

(25,242 posts)
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 07:24 AM Mar 2016

Can Anyone Post A Negative Ad From Bernie That HRC's People Are Saying He Is Running....

I keep hearing that Bernie is negatively attacking Hillary and he is running negative ads. I've never seen a Bernie attack ad. He is taking on Hillary based on the issues and her public record. Hillary is basically running against herself. In case I missed a Bernie attack ad - would someone post it here.

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Can Anyone Post A Negative Ad From Bernie That HRC's People Are Saying He Is Running.... (Original Post) global1 Mar 2016 OP
On Planet Hillary, facts are an attack. Lies are a good thing coming from them. hobbit709 Mar 2016 #1
That pretty much wraps up the meme. dchill Mar 2016 #28
She is her own negative ad Baobab Mar 2016 #99
+1 She is her own negative ad - Funny! Red Oak Apr 2016 #136
Yep 840high Mar 2016 #76
Yep. Just post his latest stump speeches and his surrogate's interviews. nt Jitter65 Apr 2016 #122
I have provided information to their campaign which would make a mind blowing negative ad and Baobab Mar 2016 #83
Send me the information...I'll make the ad nt Oilwellian Mar 2016 #86
Everything they have told us about health care is wrong, the real reason its so screwed up is Baobab Mar 2016 #92
Damn, now you have me curious. bobbobbins01 Mar 2016 #89
GATS and education Baobab Mar 2016 #93
if there were any, they'd be out there with the accusation. That would make MSM $$$ ViseGrip Mar 2016 #85
The MSM doesnt report it because they are involved Baobab Mar 2016 #96
They want to change more than they want to leave alone. Baobab Mar 2016 #97
It is the right of royalty. They see themselves as royalty. FlatBaroque Mar 2016 #87
I come from a long line of surly peasants. hobbit709 Mar 2016 #88
They are repressing you! I saw it! n/t eridani Mar 2016 #106
Isnt that what our country was founded to get away from? Baobab Mar 2016 #98
In my crystal ball I see.... JackInGreen Mar 2016 #2
Bernie is like a photo negative of the bad shit Hilly has done. Ed Suspicious Mar 2016 #3
Brock-O'Keefe hasn't released the Talking Points yet to 'splain it. berni_mccoy Mar 2016 #4
I cannot hereforthevoting Mar 2016 #5
Below is just one of the many hurtful attack ads Sanders has run Lans Mar 2016 #6
Above is just one of the many truthful ads Sanders has run. No attack, just truth. RiverLover Mar 2016 #7
Very much so Lans Mar 2016 #8
Yes, just like the Republicans they always accuse you of what THEY are doing. pdsimdars Mar 2016 #64
my thoughts exactly. desmiller Mar 2016 #81
The truth hurts DebDoo Mar 2016 #11
So it's an attack then, right? dchill Mar 2016 #29
You can live in fantasy land or live in reality with the truth nolabels Mar 2016 #62
That's it, really? An accurate statement JackRiddler Mar 2016 #14
The Big Short, have you seen it? Kittycat Mar 2016 #37
I watched Bullworth and Primary Colors last week- does that count? nt floppyboo Mar 2016 #80
Facts are negative? Just wait until Trump runs an ad about how he bought her. jillan Mar 2016 #41
If you can be 'attacked' with truth JackInGreen Mar 2016 #51
Well said! pdsimdars Mar 2016 #65
ditto litlbilly Apr 2016 #140
The problem is that you can not prove it's true.. fun n serious Apr 2016 #119
Attack ad? lastone Mar 2016 #78
Yes, please! Where are all the Clinton people, why aren't they posting those ads? intheflow Mar 2016 #9
Bump! polly7 Mar 2016 #10
I'll bet this OP has already set all-time records for clicks on... cherokeeprogressive Mar 2016 #12
His crowds are booing her, he used to stop the boos. Agschmid Mar 2016 #13
Those damn crowds. Hundreds of thousands of them. JackRiddler Mar 2016 #15
His crowds are booing corruption and dishonesty set up to disadvantage the working/povery class... MrMickeysMom Mar 2016 #16
So why did he stop them at first? Agschmid Mar 2016 #19
Apparently, that's YOUR issue... MrMickeysMom Mar 2016 #21
... Agschmid Mar 2016 #49
Then I don't see how you cannot understand such a simple statement. pdsimdars Mar 2016 #67
Well said.... quantumjunkie Mar 2016 #116
How you expect him to stop people from booing? noiretextatique Mar 2016 #26
Easy he used to do it so clearly he can. Agschmid Mar 2016 #50
Actually if you watch the clips that were played NWCorona Mar 2016 #70
That is a ridiculous position. . . . ridiculous pdsimdars Mar 2016 #71
Hillary stops them from booing by being unappealing to large crowds in the first place. arcane1 Mar 2016 #57
Should we applaud Wall Street? Kittycat Mar 2016 #39
When He Stopped The Boos Was When He Just Mentioned Her Name And His Crowds Booed Her..... global1 Mar 2016 #18
If she's that sensitive she needs to look for another job ThePhilosopher04 Mar 2016 #31
Why I am quite pofoundly distressed by the prospective Presidency of Ms. Clinton Baobab Mar 2016 #101
... Agschmid Mar 2016 #102
Read this - this is a compilation of economic descriptions of 'labor mobility' Baobab Mar 2016 #103
In a world were birds land on podiums and that's supposed to really mean something to delegates ... uponit7771 Mar 2016 #17
She Can Clear This Up If She'd Only Release Her Transcripts..... global1 Mar 2016 #20
Yeah that's true, If Clinton says in those transcripts she'd cut the legs off All bankers Sanders... uponit7771 Mar 2016 #25
Hate is not her problem: People hate what she stands for noiretextatique Mar 2016 #30
It is, its hip and trendy to hate Hillary (see GD:P) so there's nothing she can do to please that... uponit7771 Mar 2016 #33
So no links to a negative ad? Gwhittey Mar 2016 #44
yes, would it change your mind if I posted them?! tia uponit7771 Mar 2016 #46
Just post the dang ads. Ed Suspicious Mar 2016 #53
It might not change my mind on Sanders Gwhittey Mar 2016 #54
Post the ads and I'll let you know. Tia! beam me up scottie Mar 2016 #56
What would change your mind on the position of Sanders negative adds? tia uponit7771 Mar 2016 #109
Post removed Post removed Mar 2016 #108
AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service Orrex Mar 2016 #110
She said she'd look into releasing the transcripts, then didn't. Is that integrity? rachacha Mar 2016 #22
She didn't "look into it" at all?!!? tia uponit7771 Mar 2016 #27
She's been paid millions of dollars by Wall Street for a few hours of schmoozing. Marr Mar 2016 #34
She's being under paid for one and 1 / 30th of her one year salary does not a bribe make uponit7771 Mar 2016 #43
Because she's already rich its ok! bobbobbins01 Mar 2016 #91
Only if you're going to call it a bribe, but you know that already. uponit7771 Apr 2016 #134
I am calling it a bribe... bobbobbins01 Apr 2016 #137
If 30 firms each provide 1/30th of her income..... thesquanderer Apr 2016 #133
None, if 12343 people privide a homeless person with 24 cents over 2 years that's not a bribe and uponit7771 Apr 2016 #135
They want us to believe money doesn't buy influence in Washington. beam me up scottie Mar 2016 #48
LOL. Like Obama said in 2008. She will say and do anything to get elected Kittycat Mar 2016 #40
and he chose her... not Sanders uponit7771 Mar 2016 #42
Well he picked her because Gwhittey Mar 2016 #45
He hasn't endorsed Kittycat Mar 2016 #47
If she weren't SoS she'd have primaried him in 2012. He picked her for political reasons only. cherokeeprogressive Mar 2016 #104
Man, you never really seem to know what you are talking about . . you seem to pdsimdars Mar 2016 #73
Sigh, ad homs in response to facts... typical no? tia uponit7771 Mar 2016 #107
Well, they think if you disagree with Her Royal Hillary on something, you are attacking her. pdsimdars Mar 2016 #23
Hillary thinks calling attention to her prior views on issues is negative because it frustrates her Attorney in Texas Mar 2016 #24
I thought the whole point of primary elections The Velveteen Ocelot Mar 2016 #32
While putting it so clearly about Bernie's NON-negative campaign pdsimdars Mar 2016 #74
You mean like accusing the Sanders campaign Chezboo Mar 2016 #84
In Hillary world pointing out facts = negative campaigning. Vinca Mar 2016 #35
Did anyone notice that she's campaigning on $15 an hour now?? Jennylynn Mar 2016 #36
If she is going to change her whole campaign to be Bernie's platform pdsimdars Mar 2016 #75
Well I was a little off on the campaigning part. Jennylynn Mar 2016 #82
the HCG can't deal with reality so it purges people who point out how their happy playpen MisterP Mar 2016 #111
Durn voters! Jennylynn Mar 2016 #112
P.S. Jennylynn Mar 2016 #113
This one. This is the worst! jillan Mar 2016 #38
SEETHING with hate and negativity!!! Sexist pig!!!! Poor Hillary what she has to endure!!! pdsimdars Mar 2016 #77
She doesn't want a debate before NY in NY...lol..so these stupid excuses...Bernie is bad meme bkkyosemite Mar 2016 #52
Post the dang ads, Hillpeople. If you don't then they must not exist. Ed Suspicious Mar 2016 #55
Looks to me like the answer is a resounding "NO". nt cherokeeprogressive Mar 2016 #58
But this evades us, as in the night meadows Mike__M Mar 2016 #59
Still nothing eh? bunnies Mar 2016 #60
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Mar 2016 #61
You better take their word for it. Only little people need proof. Karmadillo Mar 2016 #63
I think you hit on it. . . when the cult leader says it, it must be true. pdsimdars Mar 2016 #79
They got nuthin'! GreenPartyVoter Mar 2016 #66
There are no negative or attack ads. Someone alert the media! dchill Mar 2016 #68
kick frylock Mar 2016 #69
the silence is all they got Lans Mar 2016 #72
This is the closest he's come to a "negative" ad, explained by Cenk Uygur pantsonfire Apr 2016 #126
It not note anymore NWCorona Mar 2016 #90
Hillary's campaign directors are like big babies Rosa Luxemburg Mar 2016 #94
Just walk away Baobab Mar 2016 #105
Those 'negative' ads are likely held in the same vault as the Transcripts... AzDar Mar 2016 #95
It's negative to cite her record or who her friends are Matariki Mar 2016 #100
GREAT Post -- Where are the Negative Ads?!? quantass Mar 2016 #114
+1 quantass Mar 2016 #115
A lot of words in this thread, but no actual negative ads? Hmmm TheDormouse Apr 2016 #117
Here's his infamous Michigan ad ucrdem Apr 2016 #118
Lol. morningfog Apr 2016 #120
So those trade deals are really good for us..... unapatriciated Apr 2016 #127
All the ads from Hillary I've seen have targeted the GOP or hint at Trump... Sancho Apr 2016 #121
Day #4 and still waiting ... nt TheDormouse Apr 2016 #123
Day #5 and ... BUPKIS! TheDormouse Apr 2016 #124
Take your time. I'll just wait here quietly. nt TheDormouse Apr 2016 #125
Here's Bernie Going Negative.... global1 Apr 2016 #128
lol nt TheDormouse Apr 2016 #129
Day #6 ... and I just hear crickets ... TheDormouse Apr 2016 #130
Day #7 ... still waiting ... TheDormouse Apr 2016 #131
Day #8 -- Over a week now and TheDormouse Apr 2016 #132
Day #9 - C'mon, Don't leave me hangin' TheDormouse Apr 2016 #138
K&R TheDormouse Apr 2016 #139
Thank You For Checking In On This Thread Every Day And Chiming In On The.... global1 Apr 2016 #141
Day #11 -- I'm sure those posts will come rollin in any time now ... TheDormouse Apr 2016 #142
Day #12 -- Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? TheDormouse Apr 2016 #143
Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? TheDormouse Apr 2016 #144
It's been 2 weeks. My how time flies! Still waiting ... TheDormouse Apr 2016 #145
Day #15 -- Hello? Is anybody home? TheDormouse Apr 2016 #146

Baobab

(4,667 posts)
83. I have provided information to their campaign which would make a mind blowing negative ad and
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 03:03 PM
Mar 2016

its all true and literally world changing important, and they have not used it.

I would not be surprised if they have TONS of stuff which would make an endless stream of negative ads and they simply have decided not to use them.

the man is a saint, he's got a level of self-control which we need in a president.

Baobab

(4,667 posts)
92. Everything they have told us about health care is wrong, the real reason its so screwed up is
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 06:39 PM
Mar 2016

bad trade policy, bad trade ideology, that nobody would agree with.

hows that one

Baobab

(4,667 posts)
96. The MSM doesnt report it because they are involved
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 07:39 PM
Mar 2016

But the agenda pushed by Hillary and Obama too unfortunately is bad news for almost all of us. Corporations want it, for example, lower US wages, higher prices on drugs, no or far less available generics, reducing global environmental standards to the lowest common denominator, exporting natural gas even if huge amounts of urban housing is lost because of the half assed excuse that its become too expensive to heat. liberalisation of services so that corporations can move workers around at will, which will result in a lot of jobs lost, trade deals that make New Deal type "local sourcing" FTA-illegal, globalization of government procurement bid tendering.

All of those things.

Baobab

(4,667 posts)
97. They want to change more than they want to leave alone.
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 07:45 PM
Mar 2016

There is almost nothing left after all the changes they want to make. Many many people certainly won't be able to continue to live in the US. But there really isnt any other place for all the "losers" of globalization to go, given that most of the people on the planet are the "losers" of their game.

No, a thousand times no to them.

Ed Suspicious

(8,879 posts)
3. Bernie is like a photo negative of the bad shit Hilly has done.
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 07:27 AM
Mar 2016

Exactly opposite.

There is yor negative campaign.

 

berni_mccoy

(23,018 posts)
4. Brock-O'Keefe hasn't released the Talking Points yet to 'splain it.
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 07:29 AM
Mar 2016

The Hillary fans won't respond until they get today's memo.

Lans

(66 posts)
6. Below is just one of the many hurtful attack ads Sanders has run
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 07:34 AM
Mar 2016

[img][/image]

The Problem another ad Hillary probably feels is an attack on her - even though her name is never mentioned.

RiverLover

(7,830 posts)
7. Above is just one of the many truthful ads Sanders has run. No attack, just truth.
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 07:37 AM
Mar 2016

Too bad in Hillary's case, when you say the truth it naturally reflects poorly on her & feels like an attack to those who cling to the made-for-tv version of Hillary.

Thanks for posting!!

Lans

(66 posts)
8. Very much so
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 07:40 AM
Mar 2016

Bernie's "attack ads" are just correcting the record, because Hillary has been running the most negative campaign on the democratic side this election cycle. It is sad, but she can't win if they had to run on their records.

nolabels

(13,133 posts)
62. You can live in fantasy land or live in reality with the truth
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 02:19 PM
Mar 2016

It's not a wonder why people hate truth so much, cold hard fact does not fit well with others who wish for you to live in their illusions with them.

 

JackRiddler

(24,979 posts)
14. That's it, really? An accurate statement
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 10:38 AM
Mar 2016

about TARP and the auto bailout? In response to untrue statements about Sanders' record?

Really, that's a "hurtful" personal attack?

Kittycat

(10,493 posts)
37. The Big Short, have you seen it?
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 11:44 AM
Mar 2016

I watched it last night. The Good, sad, bad, ugly and depressing. Do you know what is worse? Being old enough to watch it play out in real life on TV, in the economy, in my community, in the lives of friends and neighbors. Especially living in what was once ranked the nation's #1 fastest growing county, after seeing a solid decade of rapid growth prior to the crash.

So, while politicians dip and repay fovorsnto lobbyists, while Hillary hosts her 33k dinners, and gives 225k speeches that she refuses to release, and Wall Street, pharma, special interests and speculators take us for a free ride - Under bail out and regulation rules that they benefit and we suffer under, I would easily call that a rigged economy. An I hold those that catered to them accountable. Chief among them, Hillary.

The add is truth, but not brutal enough.

intheflow

(28,463 posts)
9. Yes, please! Where are all the Clinton people, why aren't they posting those ads?
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 10:10 AM
Mar 2016

I know it's because there are no ads, but the truth never stopped some of her supporters from posting BS before. I mean, they're not even trying! Where's the clip of Sanders dissing his wife? Where's the clip of Sanders saying he won't be asking advice from Kissinger? These are HRC supporters shining Sanders-shaming moments!

 

cherokeeprogressive

(24,853 posts)
12. I'll bet this OP has already set all-time records for clicks on...
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 10:18 AM
Mar 2016

"Send to my Thread Trash Can".

When I went to my outside door just now, I heard the distant stamping of feet and repeats of "LALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!". Lotsa earwax on lotsa fingertips at the moment... keeping those Hillary Clinton supporters who haven't already trashed the thread from responding.

Agschmid

(28,749 posts)
13. His crowds are booing her, he used to stop the boos.
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 10:18 AM
Mar 2016

Now he doesn't seem to try/care.

He knows what he needs to do to win, and he is doing it.

Now we will see if it works.

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
16. His crowds are booing corruption and dishonesty set up to disadvantage the working/povery class...
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 10:44 AM
Mar 2016

You must be confusing this outcome with who she represents...

The issues, which she seeks to avoid addressing by refusing to DEBATE the issues, are driving those boos.

You aligned that with her. That's very interesting.

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
21. Apparently, that's YOUR issue...
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 10:59 AM
Mar 2016

The one you are using to side step WHY she's being boo'd is, "well, why didn't he do more to stop that?"

Have you ever seen his stump speeches throughout the country? It's the same body language. It hasn't changed, but your desperation to blame what people think as his problem shows how frightened you've become.

Agschmid

(28,749 posts)
49. ...
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 12:04 PM
Mar 2016


Yes I've seen his speeches, yes I voted for him for Senate, yes I helped him win that election against Tarrant.

No I'm not afraid.

Either of our candidates would be MUCH better than Trump.

No matter who the nominee is we need to beat Trump, that's the bottom line. We will all need to work together to do that.
 

pdsimdars

(6,007 posts)
67. Then I don't see how you cannot understand such a simple statement.
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 02:32 PM
Mar 2016
They are not booing HER, they are booing the bad issues. . .they boo high college costs, etc.

The fact that Hillary is on the wrong side of these issues is HER fault. Bernie can do nothing about that. It is not his duty to defend her lack of judgement for being on the wrong side of every issue. It is HER responsibility.

NWCorona

(8,541 posts)
70. Actually if you watch the clips that were played
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 02:35 PM
Mar 2016

Bernie corrected the crowd when they booed her name. I agree with that. The later clips show the crowd booing when he mentioned a policy of hers or when she took money from Wall Street.

There is a difference.

 

pdsimdars

(6,007 posts)
71. That is a ridiculous position. . . . ridiculous
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 02:38 PM
Mar 2016

When he mentions a good position they cheer,
when he mentions a bad issue they boo.

If the crowd doesn't like low wages and boo, why is it Bernie's responsibility to stop them from booing low wages? Why should he tell them not to boo low wages? What you are saying makes no sense.


That is ALWAYS the case with audiences.

YOUR PROBLEM is that YOU are associating Hillary with the BAD side of the issue and therefore think they are booing Hillary. They are booing the issue. The fact that YOU MISINTERPRET it is no ones fault but your own.

global1

(25,242 posts)
18. When He Stopped The Boos Was When He Just Mentioned Her Name And His Crowds Booed Her.....
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 10:55 AM
Mar 2016

Now when he mentions the contrasts on the issues and people boo - they are booing Hillary's positions on the issues. There is a difference.

Baobab

(4,667 posts)
101. Why I am quite pofoundly distressed by the prospective Presidency of Ms. Clinton
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 08:01 PM
Mar 2016

Last edited Sat Apr 2, 2016, 02:50 PM - Edit history (1)

Hillary is divisive. She is no friend of the working people of this country, or women, or the poor, she is just taking advantage of many failures of the US corporate media- and the subsequent fact that too many (of both parties) but specifically it seems many of the Democratic Party's good people who are less news aware - she is taking advantage of their ignorance on issues like trade deals (they wont be good for practically any of us, nor will they create jobs) She cultivated an illusiuon of inevitability - and pretended to be things she's not.

if she were to tell Democrats her real agenda, most would not vote for her.

the poorest Americans likely are the ones who will be hurt by her policies the most.

Why is she the way she is? because she wants to prevent the democratic process which is inherently one that adapts and CHANGES.

We should not blindly lock our policy in with trade deals- preserve BAD business models AT ANY COST. For example, preserve the bad health care system, BY THROWING OUT THE DOCTORS AND NURSES who have done their best to keep Americans healthy DESPITE bad policy, and replacing them with the doctors and nurses who are desperately needed in the developing world. And paying them minimum wage .

They have been promising other countries that for 20 years, ever since Bill Clinton was president. That's why our own health care system is still SO screwed up, to provide a fake, avoidable "crisis" to justify this.

The same goes for education.

Baobab

(4,667 posts)
103. Read this - this is a compilation of economic descriptions of 'labor mobility'
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 08:05 PM
Mar 2016

Last edited Sat Apr 2, 2016, 02:53 PM - Edit history (2)

provisions in trade in services agreements- This one is about GATS which was signed in 1995.

This would be a disaster for US working people .

The falling wages described would not even go to them.

------

Which Like trade in goods, labor mobility can create losers as
well as winners. In the overall balance, gains usually
exceed losses by a wide margin, but political sensitivities
focus on those who lose. In simple theoretical terms,
migration can be modeled as an increase of supply in the
labor markets of developed countries and a decrease of
supply in developing countries. Here, we use that frame-
work to examine the effects of those supply changes on
the incomes of capitalists and workers, in both the send-
ing and the host countries, and on the incomes of the
migrants themselves.

Effect in developed countries. Given the restrictions on
labor mobility, the equilibrium in the labor market is at
point A in figure 13.2. After liberalization, the equilibrium
moves to point B, reflecting an increase in the number of
hours worked and a decrease in the wage per hour. The loss
for native workers is shown by area ACDE. The gain for
capitalists is shown by area EABD, with most of this gain
coming from the loss for native workers. Since the gain for
capitalists is larger than the loss for native workers, the lib-
eralization of mode 4 leads to an overall gain, shown by
area ABC.
Effect on developing countries. The effect of the liberal-
ization of mode 4 on developing countries is the exact
opposite to that for developed countries. With restrictions
on mode 4, the equilibrium in the labor market is at point
B in figure 13.3. After liberalization, the equilibrium point
moves to point A, reflecting an increase in the wage per
hour and a decrease in the number of hours worked.
As will be apparent later, the gains for migrants in
developed countries are much larger than the loss that
their departure inflicts on developing countries. Nonmi-
grant workers also experience gains, shown by area ACDE
in figure 13.3, since the wage rate has increased in devel-
oping countries. But nonmigrant capitalists experience a
very large loss, shown by area ABDE (most of the loss cor-
responds to the wage gain for nonmigrant workers).
Because the loss for nonmigrant capitalists is larger than
the gain for nonmigrant workers, the group of nonmi-
grants as a whole experiences an overall loss of income,
shown by area ABC. In other words, the effect on total
welfare of liberalizing mode 4 is negative for nonmigrants
in developing countries. Income per capita, however, is
likely (although not guaranteed) to rise as marginal pro-
ductivity increases.
Overall outcome. Migrants lose their erstwhile wages in
developing countries but enjoy larger wages in developed
countries. They therefore experience a gain, measured by
the wage difference between the destination and source
countries.
------

Box 13.2. Quantitative Estimates of Overall Gains from Greater Labor Mobility
Complete liberalization of mode 4 would result in very large gains.
Hamilton and Whalley (1984) use a partial equilibrium (PE) model and 1977 data to estimate the benefits from the complete
elimination of all immigration restrictions, for skilled and unskilled labor alike. The potential gains are enormous, ranging from 60
to almost 205 percent of world gross domestic product (GDP). Millions of workers would move from low-productivity to high-
productivity jobs in countries with high salaries, until wages in labor-sending and labor-receiving countries equalized. Iregui (1999)
revisits the question using a computable general equilibrium (CGE) model and more precise measures of elasticities and population
characteristics. Here again, the gains are large, ranging from 15 to 67 percent of world GDP. Moses and Letnes (2004), using more
precise values for productivities, confirm large gains, ranging from 4.3 to about 112 percent of world GDP in 1977. According to
these authors, the ‘’most reasonable’’ gain would be 7.5 percent of world GDP.
The large differences between these estimates, both within and between studies, can be explained by the differences in
modeling frameworks (partial versus general equilibrium) and assumed parameters. Some estimates assume that migrants can
achieve the average productivity of workers in the destination country; others assume that additional education and training will be
needed.

Gains from less than complete liberalization of mode 4 are still large.
Because full liberalization is politically unacceptable, some economists have estimated the potential outcome of more modest
liberalization of mode 4. Moses and Letnes (2004) estimate the gains from eliminating 10 percent of the wage inequality between
countries and find that potential gains would still be large, corresponding to around 2.2 percent of world GDP. Walmsley and
Winters (2002) estimate the potential gain from a 3 percent increase in the workforce in developed countries, a movement of 14.2
million workers, and a 50 percent increase in the current number of immigrants in developed countries at US$156 billion in 2002,
representing 0.6 percent of world GDP. World Bank (2006) reaches a very similar result.
Most of the gains come from the movement of unskilled labor.
According to Iregui (1999), the potential gains from the migration of skilled labor only are much smaller: 3 to 11 percent of world
GDP, in comparison with 13 to 59 percent for all skills. Walmsley and Winters (2002) show that the potential gain from the
movement of unskilled workers would account for US$110 billion, or 70 percent of the total. This reflects the fact that inequality in
wages worldwide is larger for unskilled than for skilled workers.
Source: Annex table 13A.1.

--------------

According to the theoretical model, the liberalization of
mode 4 has the following distributional consequences:

• In developed countries, most of the gains for capitalists
are balanced by losses to native workers.

• In developing countries, most of the losses to capitalists
are mirrored by gains to nonmigrant workers.

• In developed countries, the gains for capitalists are
larger than the losses for native workers. Therefore, total
income in developed countries rises.

• In developing countries, the losses for capitalists are
larger than the gains for nonmigrant workers. There-
fore, total income in developing countries falls.

uponit7771

(90,335 posts)
17. In a world were birds land on podiums and that's supposed to really mean something to delegates ...
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 10:46 AM
Mar 2016

... Sanders can impugn Hillary's integeraty by intimating a quid pro quo between her and Wall Street all day long

and

that's "positive" campaigning

global1

(25,242 posts)
20. She Can Clear This Up If She'd Only Release Her Transcripts.....
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 10:58 AM
Mar 2016

If she has nothing to hide and she is not telling Goldman and the Wall St bunch something different than she is telling the People - then maybe that's what it will take.

uponit7771

(90,335 posts)
25. Yeah that's true, If Clinton says in those transcripts she'd cut the legs off All bankers Sanders...
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 11:24 AM
Mar 2016

... camp would call her "the castrator"

The Hillary hate is tangible, no one who's been paying half ass'd attention believes releasing transcripts would be anything positive for her

noiretextatique

(27,275 posts)
30. Hate is not her problem: People hate what she stands for
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 11:31 AM
Mar 2016

Like the TPP, fracking and regime change. Frankly, people SHOULD hate those things. Meanwhile, not a bit of "hate" is directed at Sanders It's tough to be both a victim and a hypocrite at the same time, but Clinton leads the way!

uponit7771

(90,335 posts)
33. It is, its hip and trendy to hate Hillary (see GD:P) so there's nothing she can do to please that...
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 11:36 AM
Mar 2016

... crowd other than just going away.

Sanders can't throw stones no matter what Bridiebro thinks and Sanders hasn't had millions of tax payer dollars spent by an opposition part in government to lower his poll numbers.

whatever, I wouldn't realease em either... fuck the haters

 

Gwhittey

(1,377 posts)
54. It might not change my mind on Sanders
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 12:11 PM
Mar 2016

But it would change my mind on what I think you are if you care and I am assuming you care what I think because you asked.

Response to uponit7771 (Reply #46)

Orrex

(63,203 posts)
110. AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service
Thu Mar 31, 2016, 12:42 PM
Mar 2016

Mail Message
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It would change my mind about
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Uncalled for ad hom

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Marr

(20,317 posts)
34. She's been paid millions of dollars by Wall Street for a few hours of schmoozing.
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 11:37 AM
Mar 2016

Of *course* they're getting something for their money. Who do you think you're kidding?

uponit7771

(90,335 posts)
43. She's being under paid for one and 1 / 30th of her one year salary does not a bribe make
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 11:55 AM
Mar 2016

... believe what you want about her.

Not sure facts change minds any longer

bobbobbins01

(1,681 posts)
137. I am calling it a bribe...
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 08:45 PM
Apr 2016

so that means I'm right? Bribes are only for poor people? I guess rich people can just claim the affluenza defense.

thesquanderer

(11,986 posts)
133. If 30 firms each provide 1/30th of her income.....
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 03:51 PM
Apr 2016

...does that mean she's beholden to all of them or none of them?

What it really comes down to, though, is not, as you said, "a bribe." It's more subtle than that. It means that when the chairman of one of these firms wants to talk to the likely future president, she'll probably take the call. It gives them an opportunity to have her ear, to have influence, at critical times about issues that are important to them. If there is a call that can go either way, this kind of influence can tip the balance. Even without specific conversations, the relationship probably makes her pre-disposed to see things from their point of view.

uponit7771

(90,335 posts)
135. None, if 12343 people privide a homeless person with 24 cents over 2 years that's not a bribe and
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 05:26 PM
Apr 2016

... there's no reasonable person who's going to believe the homeless person is beholden to anyone.

But again, believe what you'd like... facts no longer are involved any longer with the bird on podiem people

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
48. They want us to believe money doesn't buy influence in Washington.
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 12:02 PM
Mar 2016

No one is THAT fucking naive, DUers have been demanding we get money out of politics since this site was created.

But now her supporters are fine with it as long as it's her bank account.

Kittycat

(10,493 posts)
40. LOL. Like Obama said in 2008. She will say and do anything to get elected
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 11:48 AM
Mar 2016

The Clinton's are a well-honed political machine. This isn't even about needing to toughen up, it's a tactic, because she's running scared. She doesn't want to defend herself, or her false smearing.

 

Gwhittey

(1,377 posts)
45. Well he picked her because
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 12:00 PM
Mar 2016

She was threatening to go to a contested convention. So he promised a cabinet position if she would not.

Kittycat

(10,493 posts)
47. He hasn't endorsed
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 12:02 PM
Mar 2016

Maybe in Hillary land, but not in real life.

And if you're talking about SoS, look at all the trouble she was worth for him. What a train wreck.

 

pdsimdars

(6,007 posts)
73. Man, you never really seem to know what you are talking about . . you seem to
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 02:41 PM
Mar 2016

just come on here to rant.
All of those points you brought up were very clearly explained by people in this thread earlier.
Man, I gotta ignore you, you don't seem to be here to add anything, just to annoy.
Aloha

 

pdsimdars

(6,007 posts)
23. Well, they think if you disagree with Her Royal Hillary on something, you are attacking her.
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 11:02 AM
Mar 2016

Talk about mindless subservience.

Or maybe they are thinking about those nasty, false lies and smears that appeared all over the place yesterday about Bernie as a Monster, put out by their O'Keefe like minions.

Attorney in Texas

(3,373 posts)
24. Hillary thinks calling attention to her prior views on issues is negative because it frustrates her
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 11:05 AM
Mar 2016

efforts to run to the left in the primary and then flip right if she gets the nomination.

Hillary thinks it is negative to request her Wall Street transcripts because they show she lied when she told the voters she scolded Wall Street for their fraud.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,681 posts)
32. I thought the whole point of primary elections
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 11:36 AM
Mar 2016

was to explain why you are a better candidate than the other ones. As far as I know Bernie has never done anything but point out the differences between his policies and Hillary's. He hasn't said anything negative about her personally at all (unless you count her lucrative speeches to Goldman Sachs, but that's sure as hell fair game). When did criticism of another candidate's policies and positions become an "attack ad"? That's politics, and, as the saying goes, it ain't beanbag. Hillary expected the nomination to be handed to her on a golden, jewel-encrusted platter but she's actually having to fight for it. Too bad.

 

pdsimdars

(6,007 posts)
74. While putting it so clearly about Bernie's NON-negative campaign
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 02:47 PM
Mar 2016
I think we should also talk about the Clinton campaign's lie and smear campaign.

They lie, distort, smear and swift boat. . . .and then have the gall to accuse BERNIE of a negative campaign.

Isn't that the way it always is with Republicans. . . they blame others for what they themselves are doing?

Chezboo

(230 posts)
84. You mean like accusing the Sanders campaign
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 03:24 PM
Mar 2016

of stealing voter information?


Isn't that the way it always is with Republicans. . . they blame others for what they themselves are doing?

Jennylynn

(696 posts)
36. Did anyone notice that she's campaigning on $15 an hour now??
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 11:41 AM
Mar 2016

That last 'event' that she had in Wisconsin, someone posted the main talking points of it on the Hillary board, of which I didn't notice it was the Hillary board, so I mentioned that fact and they banned me! Lol
And they wonder why people don't trust her. She's stealing Bernie's ideas. One of the Hillary posters pointed out why we can't go to $15 from $12 an hour because it would throw some people off of Medicaid, etc. And I thought, well why doesn't Hillary explain it that way? People would listen to that! Instead she chooses to campaign, once again, using Bernie's platform.

 

pdsimdars

(6,007 posts)
75. If she is going to change her whole campaign to be Bernie's platform
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 02:49 PM
Mar 2016

why not just drop out and endorse him? I mean if she now agrees with everything Bernie is saying. . . . then he's got it covered. . .

Jennylynn

(696 posts)
82. Well I was a little off on the campaigning part.
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 03:02 PM
Mar 2016

She's not exactly campaigning on it. She praised CA for going to $15 per hour. Or for trying to go.

MisterP

(23,730 posts)
111. the HCG can't deal with reality so it purges people who point out how their happy playpen
Thu Mar 31, 2016, 12:47 PM
Mar 2016

contradicts meatspace

it's the mode of thought that lets them cheerfully predict Sanders would lose VT, or let DWS gibber insanities without being punished: the DNC's plan would retake the Senate, it's just that those durn voters didn't respond!

Jennylynn

(696 posts)
112. Durn voters!
Thu Mar 31, 2016, 12:55 PM
Mar 2016

Yep. I think my above post is the reason I got kicked out of HCG. Either this one or the one where I called Thelma the 'dumb one' from Thelma and Louise.
Well! She was!

Geena Davis is supporting Hillary and is actually really, really smart.

Jennylynn

(696 posts)
113. P.S.
Thu Mar 31, 2016, 12:57 PM
Mar 2016

I don't think I knew there was an exclusive Hillary club at the time that I was banned. I don't look at the tiny heading at the top of the subject matter every single time I click on it for goodness sake.

jillan

(39,451 posts)
38. This one. This is the worst!
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 11:45 AM
Mar 2016


And if that wasn't bad enough - there is this one!!!1!!1!!

c



He is sooo negative!!

Mike__M

(1,052 posts)
59. But this evades us, as in the night meadows
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 01:40 PM
Mar 2016
The crickets' million roundsong dies away
From all advances, rising in every distance.
 

bunnies

(15,859 posts)
60. Still nothing eh?
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 01:50 PM
Mar 2016

Geez. For all the whining and gnashing of teeth, you'd think they'd have them at the ready.

Lans

(66 posts)
72. the silence is all they got
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 02:39 PM
Mar 2016

I want Sanders to attack Hillary for attacking him - that would be brilliant, running attack ads about attack ads.

Matariki

(18,775 posts)
100. It's negative to cite her record or who her friends are
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 07:53 PM
Mar 2016

especially when it contradicts her platform du jour.

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
118. Here's his infamous Michigan ad
Sat Apr 2, 2016, 05:20 AM
Apr 2016

I anxiously await being told it's not negative at all, because it doesn't say Hillary's name, and truth is not negative and everything Bernie says is true:



Sancho

(9,067 posts)
121. All the ads from Hillary I've seen have targeted the GOP or hint at Trump...
Sat Apr 2, 2016, 07:03 AM
Apr 2016

Bernie doesn't matter, so I doubt a lot of resources are aimed at him.

Maybe you have seen something a PAC produced.

You can see Hillary's ads on Youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLRYsOHrkk5qcIhtq033bLQ



I haven't seen a single Bernie produced ad here in Florida - so he isn't doing much in the sunbelt. I haven't seen any reports of "negative ads".

I think this is a link to Bernie's ads: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCH1dpzjCEiGAt8CXkryhkZg

global1

(25,242 posts)
141. Thank You For Checking In On This Thread Every Day And Chiming In On The....
Fri Apr 8, 2016, 03:20 PM
Apr 2016

lack of negative ads by Bernie. They'll make accusations - but they can never back them up.

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