Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Agschmid

(28,749 posts)
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 01:06 PM Mar 2016

We Expect Women to Have Impostor Syndrome. That’s Why We Can’t Handle Hillary Clinton.

[center][/center]

Since impostor syndrome became the workplace anxiety du jour a few years back, women have tried all manner of tricks to boost feelings of self-worth and convince themselves that they deserve every granule of success they achieve. New York Times editor Jazmine Hughes dressed like Cookie from Empire to help her feel like a boss at her new gig. A Harvard Business School professor prescribed “power poses” that boost testosterone. Writer Sarah Hagi has beseeched the heavens to grant her “the confidence of a mediocre white man.”

But wait! Once you’ve got a healthy self-image and are aware of all the strengths that landed you in a well-deserved job, you’re bound to fall into an equally damaging trap at the other end of the confidence spectrum. Women who achieve leadership positions in male-dominated industries are viewed with suspicion, especially when they ask to be compensated in money, power, or autonomy for their accomplishments. In the Huffington Post, Anna Kegler writes that Hillary Clinton and Melissa Harris-Perry demonstrate the pitfalls of competence bias, which holds women to higher standards than men:

While boys are raised to exaggerate their skills, take risks, fall down and pick themselves back up, girls are taught to think things through and second-guess, avoid risk and failure, and not raise their hand unless they’re sure they have the right answer. Lastly, girls absorb from the media that their real value [lies in their appearance], at the same time that boys absorb the message that girls are not to be trusted.


That last bit is particularly relevant in Clinton’s case. The concept of trust has taken on gendered import in the current presidential campaign. Pegging Clinton as an inauthentic, conniving phony with little concrete evidence to support that characterization is, essentially, calling her an impostor. In a Guardian editorial on Monday, former New York Times executive editor Jill Abramson pointed out that Clinton has the best truth-telling record of any candidate in the race, yet even 40 percent of Democrats think she can’t be trusted.


Read More.
114 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
We Expect Women to Have Impostor Syndrome. That’s Why We Can’t Handle Hillary Clinton. (Original Post) Agschmid Mar 2016 OP
I hope everyone who believes they are not harboring any bias against HRC reads this. mt MADem Mar 2016 #1
... They won't. Agschmid Mar 2016 #2
You could be onto something, or ... Scuba Mar 2016 #85
As you can see the bias is is being proven down thread. Agschmid Mar 2016 #5
It came apparent to me when I heard people say "They can't listen to her" bettyellen Mar 2016 #6
Would be nice, but it's apparently too much to ask. Agschmid Mar 2016 #9
the "she lies" when everything Bernie promises will not happen in 4-8 years... bettyellen Mar 2016 #12
People don't have any problem calling Bernie dishonest Armstead Mar 2016 #29
Integrity is the first thing people cite when describing him. bettyellen Mar 2016 #35
I've seen plenty of posts here and comments elsewhere calling him dishonest Armstead Mar 2016 #46
Too many studies have examined the issue for me to dismiss it. bettyellen Mar 2016 #57
I'm not denying that form of sexism exists Armstead Mar 2016 #65
"her personality" - well there you go. chew on that for a while. bettyellen Mar 2016 #67
No, I don't like or trust empty "main chancers" Armstead Mar 2016 #70
"annoying" it's that kind of substance free criticism that forced me to look harder... bettyellen Mar 2016 #74
Naw you haven't been paying attention if haven't noticed it Armstead Mar 2016 #84
we are talking about totally different standards, suddenly there are purity tests that bettyellen Mar 2016 #110
LOL! rock Mar 2016 #108
Hmm... I've never heard that Bernie would achieve all of 1monster Mar 2016 #107
he is short on details, so people fill in the blanks. people literally believed college would be bettyellen Mar 2016 #111
Or maybe it's that we can't abide by her unethical actions & conservative & chameleon positions. JudyM Mar 2016 #3
Thank you. noiretextatique Mar 2016 #20
It might be that Clinton is an inauthentic, conniving phony with lots of concrete evidence Vincardog Mar 2016 #72
+1 Marr Mar 2016 #73
They're woman splainin us. JudyM Mar 2016 #79
No, she's a flip-flopping liar. dchill Mar 2016 #4
amen! oldandhappy Mar 2016 #36
It's funny that so many people revbones Mar 2016 #7
... Agschmid Mar 2016 #14
So an article clearly marked as "Opinion" on the left proves her honesty? nt revbones Mar 2016 #21
Nope, but it's a good read. Agschmid Mar 2016 #23
I like a little fact in my reading unless it's sci-fi. nt revbones Mar 2016 #24
Okay... here is a little fact. Agschmid Mar 2016 #31
When you cite that in the future revbones Mar 2016 #56
Sorry, but my reasons for not supporting HRC Kelvin Mace Mar 2016 #8
Piffle. While I acknowledge that the "impostor syndrome" is a real thing, The Velveteen Ocelot Mar 2016 #10
Yep: "it's that she says different things at different times" cyberswede Mar 2016 #28
Nope, I can't handle a war hawk with a bad record who I can't trust. beam me up scottie Mar 2016 #11
Still carrying that water... and the "cigar" I see. Agschmid Mar 2016 #15
What on earth are you going on about? I can't disagree with her or I'm a sexist? beam me up scottie Mar 2016 #22
Every mention of a cigar = Clinton/Lewinsky, or something. cyberswede Mar 2016 #30
Yup. Agschmid Mar 2016 #32
"They" used a common saying and you're making up shit because you can't call me sexist. beam me up scottie Mar 2016 #42
Not desperate. Not even close. Agschmid Mar 2016 #48
Of course it is, when you call WOMEN sexist for not supporting Hillary it's desperation. beam me up scottie Mar 2016 #55
I have not called women who aren't supporting Hillary sexist anywhere... Agschmid Mar 2016 #69
"Carrying water" You implied it by claiming I lied about my reasons for not supporting her. beam me up scottie Mar 2016 #75
At not point have I ever either implied or directly stated you were sexist. Agschmid Mar 2016 #82
Oh Jesus Christ. I'm surprised he didn't alert on my post yet. beam me up scottie Mar 2016 #33
Why would I alert on it? Agschmid Mar 2016 #44
Maybe I'm a girl. HassleCat Mar 2016 #13
And maybe I'm a boy........... Amaril Mar 2016 #81
I know HassleCat Mar 2016 #112
Our culture is so sexist that even otherwise very progressive people fall victim to it. nt BreakfastClub Mar 2016 #16
So many of you Hillary supporters refuse to see that millions of us Arugula Latte Mar 2016 #25
I never said you were sexist. Interesting.... nt BreakfastClub Mar 2016 #37
Seems to be a bit of projection throughout the thread. Agschmid Mar 2016 #50
Yep. nt BreakfastClub Mar 2016 #53
He never said you said Gwhittey Mar 2016 #80
+1 demmiblue Mar 2016 #43
Yes, that explains it. Couldn't be that they are intelligent enough to reason it out for themselves revbones Mar 2016 #39
I didn't explain anything. I just said the culture is extremely sexist and many people BreakfastClub Mar 2016 #49
That's interesting because I could swear you said revbones Mar 2016 #59
You seem a little confused. nt BreakfastClub Mar 2016 #64
Must be, otherwise it would appear that you didn't say what you claim to have said... nt revbones Mar 2016 #66
I said the culture is sexist and even progressives fall victim to it. So what are BreakfastClub Mar 2016 #71
Oh, so which was it? What you now say you did and didn't before, or what you said just a min ago? revbones Mar 2016 #83
Naw I don't trust Bill either, for the same set of reasons Armstead Mar 2016 #17
Yes, I am with you. There are lots of women in power that I trust. IdaBriggs Mar 2016 #52
OR ... Arugula Latte Mar 2016 #18
Its not a meme... Agschmid Mar 2016 #38
Speaking of fire ... Arugula Latte Mar 2016 #114
Here we go again! The reason people don't support Hillary must be because she is a woman. jillan Mar 2016 #19
Just FYI you may have fought for equal rights, but you have yet to gain them. Agschmid Mar 2016 #41
The perception of wrongdoing is often as damaging is the reality of wrongdoing. Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2016 #26
So women distrust Clinton because B2G Mar 2016 #27
Article doesn't specify women, does it? randome Mar 2016 #45
Explain our love for Elizabeth Warren then. B2G Mar 2016 #51
She isn't running for anything. Agschmid Mar 2016 #63
Lame as hell. B2G Mar 2016 #68
yep, feelings change when women are powerful. bettyellen Mar 2016 #76
They absolutely do. Agschmid Mar 2016 #78
Not every woman behaves the same and Warren comes across as more authentic. randome Mar 2016 #86
Wait wait... JackInGreen Mar 2016 #34
or maybe I'm just against perpetual war, TPP, TPIP, banksters, and everything else the Clinton's magical thyme Mar 2016 #40
I forgive Hillary for what she had to do to get where she is marions ghost Mar 2016 #47
lol - she is a HORRIBLE candidate; you refuse to see it. closeupready Mar 2016 #54
She is winning at this moment in the pledged delegate count... Agschmid Mar 2016 #58
So there you go! You sure seem pessimistic for somone supporting a 'winner'. closeupready Mar 2016 #61
I seem pessimistic? Agschmid Mar 2016 #90
Excuses are for losers. closeupready Mar 2016 #94
... Agschmid Mar 2016 #96
You don't talk like a winner. You and your cohorts, with 50 bazillion excuses closeupready Mar 2016 #97
Democrats need to win the GE... Until that happens we are all losers. Agschmid Mar 2016 #100
If Dems want to win the GE, then we need to put up Bernie as the nominee. closeupready Mar 2016 #105
Hey - just about everyone lies and exaggerates. jmg257 Mar 2016 #60
please, I fought in the trenches for years and still respect those struggling, hollysmom Mar 2016 #62
+1,000 n/t zazen Mar 2016 #109
People distrust Hillary because she's given them good reasons to distrust her. /nt Marr Mar 2016 #77
Not my experience whatchamacallit Mar 2016 #87
Frankly I would like to see a comparative analysis to women of the same time period. PyaarRevolution Mar 2016 #88
Absolute B.S. I am against Hillary because she is a Corporatacrat, not because she's a woman. highprincipleswork Mar 2016 #89
If she is so far ahead, why are you posting all this crapola? longship Mar 2016 #91
She's not a horrible candidate, she is currently ahead. Agschmid Mar 2016 #92
The two are orthogonal principles. longship Mar 2016 #93
That's why people are used to Bernie! Very used to Clinton's shenanigans. ViseGrip Mar 2016 #95
So she tries to go back on her word about the NY debate. sadoldgirl Mar 2016 #98
lol ibegurpard Mar 2016 #99
whatevs Hiraeth Mar 2016 #101
Um, no, I cannot support a candidate who is for war, fracking, the TPP, cluster bombs, djean111 Mar 2016 #102
Policy disagreements do not account for the utter vitriol leveled at Clinton. randome Mar 2016 #104
62 year old female. SamKnause Mar 2016 #103
I Didn't Support Mitt Romney gordyfl Mar 2016 #106
No, we can't "handle" her because she's an opportunistic liar. winter is coming Mar 2016 #113
 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
6. It came apparent to me when I heard people say "They can't listen to her"
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 01:14 PM
Mar 2016

and then would admit that they knew very little- except second hand trash peddled on FB. None had actually listened or read anything concrete. I suggested they did, instead of thinking they "can't".

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
12. the "she lies" when everything Bernie promises will not happen in 4-8 years...
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 01:18 PM
Mar 2016

it is a double standard when you drill down and examine it.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
35. Integrity is the first thing people cite when describing him.
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 01:26 PM
Mar 2016

Yet he is every bit the politician as Clinton. They both prevaricate.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
46. I've seen plenty of posts here and comments elsewhere calling him dishonest
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 01:28 PM
Mar 2016

One can view one's chosen candidate and opponent through one's own bias filter....but I don't think sexism is a factor in this instance

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
57. Too many studies have examined the issue for me to dismiss it.
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 01:31 PM
Mar 2016

Reminds me of thirty years ago, when symphonic musicians just believed women were never skilled enough. It was widely accepted, until they played behind a curtain. Then they realized they had been prejudiced all along.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
65. I'm not denying that form of sexism exists
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 01:34 PM
Mar 2016

And it MAY color some of the views of some people towards Clinton.

But to dismiss it all as that is dismissing legitimate concerns and objections by people who do not like her policies, her affiliations, her history, her statements...or, quite frankly her personality apart from her gender.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
67. "her personality" - well there you go. chew on that for a while.
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 01:37 PM
Mar 2016

just like a lot of low info voters, you're voting (in part) for who you want to have a beer with. think about it.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
70. No, I don't like or trust empty "main chancers"
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 01:39 PM
Mar 2016

She's a type I have always found annoying, whatever gender they might happen to be.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
74. "annoying" it's that kind of substance free criticism that forced me to look harder...
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 01:41 PM
Mar 2016

and see that she is being held to standard that people never had before. new standards have magically appeared, and they are used to justify hatred. it has been interesting to watch.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
84. Naw you haven't been paying attention if haven't noticed it
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 01:47 PM
Mar 2016

Many politicians engender strong reactions for being personally annoying in one way or another.

Start with Ted Cruz in the current race. Even people who agree with him find him very annoying.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
110. we are talking about totally different standards, suddenly there are purity tests that
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 04:27 PM
Mar 2016

no one had as little as four years ago. What I have noticed is that very few people (in real life) who have told me they think she is dishonest, actually had any concrete reasons. Or they say "she must be" because "Wall St", and that was enough.
You and Susan had no problems with Edwards, who worked on Wall St and supported war, but Clinton is a pariah. You two can change your values- but Hillary doing better over the years on say, gay marriage- that is an issue. I see double standards all over the place.

1monster

(11,012 posts)
107. Hmm... I've never heard that Bernie would achieve all of
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 02:56 PM
Mar 2016

his objectives in four to eight years. Bernie, himself, has stated many times that he cannot make his objectives happen by himself -- WE THE PEOPLE have to demand that Congress passes the necessary laws and that they are enforced. And that it won't be easy or fast.

The fact is, that unless we start (with Bernie) in working for the objectives Bernie stands for, they will never happen. Bernie is a good start, but he is not the end. The struggle will go on and on as long as there are those to fight against the greater good.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
111. he is short on details, so people fill in the blanks. people literally believed college would be
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 04:56 PM
Mar 2016

free in a year or so, if he became president. I think a great start would be getting MORE great people in office, one can hardly make a dent.

dchill

(38,489 posts)
4. No, she's a flip-flopping liar.
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 01:13 PM
Mar 2016

And That's Why We Can’t Handle Hillary Clinton!

Just to be clear.

DINJARIE

 

revbones

(3,660 posts)
7. It's funny that so many people
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 01:15 PM
Mar 2016

Try to explain away distrust of Hillary as not valid. As if people can't just see lies and say "She's distrustful" without it having to be because someone is wrong about Hillary.

All the attempts to trivialize both facts (her lies) and the opinions of others as invalid are a bit bizarre.

Agschmid

(28,749 posts)
31. Okay... here is a little fact.
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 01:24 PM
Mar 2016
As for her statements on issues, Politifact, a Pulitzer prize-winning fact-checking organization, gives Clinton the best truth-telling record of any of the 2016 presidential candidates. She beats Sanders and Kasich and crushes Cruz and Trump, who has the biggest “pants on fire” rating and has told whoppers about basic economics that are embarrassing for anyone aiming to be president. (He falsely claimed GDP has dropped the last two quarters and claimed the national unemployment rate was as high as 35%).
 

revbones

(3,660 posts)
56. When you cite that in the future
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 01:30 PM
Mar 2016

you may want to objectively read the items they used and their qualifying statements on such as to what constitutes true and "mostly-true".

Now, those are also debate statements, etc... They do not include such things as her explicitly telling unions that she would fight the Colombia Free Trade Agreement - which was proved false by the release of her emails showing she lobbied for it secretly.

They also don't include her change in position on the bankruptcy bill and vote for it after she got donations.

It doesn't explain her pay-for-play deals where mid eastern countries suddenly made large donations to the Clinton Foundation just before arms deal negotiations were concluded favorably to them

It doesn't explain her statements about Bernie wanting to get rid of ACA, Medicare, Medicaid, etc...

Nope, that list goes on for miles...

 

Kelvin Mace

(17,469 posts)
8. Sorry, but my reasons for not supporting HRC
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 01:16 PM
Mar 2016

have nothing to do with any of this. It has to do with her war mongering and her bragging of friendship with a war criminal.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,686 posts)
10. Piffle. While I acknowledge that the "impostor syndrome" is a real thing,
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 01:16 PM
Mar 2016

my problem with Clinton is not that I don't believe what she says; it's that she says different things at different times so I don't know which of those things to believe. It's her inconsistency. A few years ago she proclaimed that marriage is between a man and a woman; now she's all for same-sex marriage. She was for TPP before she was against it. She was for fracking before she was against it. It's not her gender; it's her track record.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
11. Nope, I can't handle a war hawk with a bad record who I can't trust.
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 01:17 PM
Mar 2016

She flip flops on important issues and compromises on others, I just don't trust her.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Agschmid

(28,749 posts)
32. Yup.
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 01:25 PM
Mar 2016

And to pretend otherwise is just foolish, BMUS is smart they knew exactly what they were saying.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
42. "They" used a common saying and you're making up shit because you can't call me sexist.
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 01:27 PM
Mar 2016

Hillary supporters are getting so desperate I can smell it.

2008 all over again, we hate poor Hillary, stop picking on her because she's a GIRL!!!

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
55. Of course it is, when you call WOMEN sexist for not supporting Hillary it's desperation.
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 01:30 PM
Mar 2016

Especially after they've listed valid reasons for not doing so.

When you claim there's a hidden meaning behind the use of a common expression it's desperation.

When you double down after being called on your bullshit tactics it's desperation.

You just don't like the responses to your op-ed.

Agschmid

(28,749 posts)
69. I have not called women who aren't supporting Hillary sexist anywhere...
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 01:38 PM
Mar 2016

But if those are the words you want to put in my mouth I can't stop you.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
75. "Carrying water" You implied it by claiming I lied about my reasons for not supporting her.
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 01:42 PM
Mar 2016

And by implying the cigar expression was about Monica Lewinsky.

Don't be coy, you're not very good at it.

Agschmid

(28,749 posts)
82. At not point have I ever either implied or directly stated you were sexist.
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 01:45 PM
Mar 2016

It's ironic that it's not okay for me to imply what you were thinking but apparently it's fine for you to do it.

BMUS is not sexist, just so everyone is clear. And women who support Bernie are not sexists, I've never said that and I never will.

Agschmid

(28,749 posts)
44. Why would I alert on it?
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 01:28 PM
Mar 2016

There is no TOS/CS violation there, you get to have an opinion and I get to say what I think of it.

 

HassleCat

(6,409 posts)
13. Maybe I'm a girl.
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 01:18 PM
Mar 2016

"While boys are raised to exaggerate their skills, take risks, fall down and pick themselves back up, girls are taught to think things through and second-guess, avoid risk and failure, and not raise their hand unless they’re sure they have the right answer." That's me, even though I have a penis.

Amaril

(1,267 posts)
81. And maybe I'm a boy...........
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 01:44 PM
Mar 2016

When the situation dictates, I am a ponderer / "big picture" thinker, but I'm not afraid to take risks (I packed up and moved -- all by my lonesome -- 300 miles away from family & friends for a job with a start up), and I had a manager tell me during a performance review that she liked that I wasn't afraid to jump in with a suggestion or answer even when I was wrong.

I don't have a penis, but some of my best friends do.

 

HassleCat

(6,409 posts)
112. I know
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 11:55 PM
Mar 2016

These generalizations are based on a grain of truth, but we shouldn't take them too seriously.

 

Arugula Latte

(50,566 posts)
25. So many of you Hillary supporters refuse to see that millions of us
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 01:22 PM
Mar 2016

take issue with Hillary because of her record and statement and actions.

If I'm so sexist why did I prefer Elizabeth Warren over all the other candidates?

 

revbones

(3,660 posts)
39. Yes, that explains it. Couldn't be that they are intelligent enough to reason it out for themselves
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 01:26 PM
Mar 2016

based on facts or anything. Thanks for explaining it!

BreakfastClub

(765 posts)
49. I didn't explain anything. I just said the culture is extremely sexist and many people
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 01:28 PM
Mar 2016

both male and female, fall victim to it. And it IS something people are victimized by b/c sexism hurts everyone, not just women.

 

revbones

(3,660 posts)
59. That's interesting because I could swear you said
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 01:31 PM
Mar 2016

"Our culture is so sexist that even otherwise very progressive people fall victim to it" and not what you just said you did. Oh wait, I went back to the comment and verified it was...

BreakfastClub

(765 posts)
71. I said the culture is sexist and even progressives fall victim to it. So what are
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 01:39 PM
Mar 2016

we debating here? Why does that confuse you?? It's a fact, and I get that it's one you clearly don't like, but a fact nonetheless. I find it fascinating that we are debating sexism at all on a democratic site. I see arguments against sexism even existing all the time on the DU. THAT is how bad the sexism is in our culture. It's dreadful.

 

revbones

(3,660 posts)
83. Oh, so which was it? What you now say you did and didn't before, or what you said just a min ago?
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 01:45 PM
Mar 2016

It's a little confusing so it's hard to "debate" when one person says they didn't say something they said in the previous post...


The implication of what you actually said (and then denied) is that the anti-Hillary sentiment is trivialized away as just sexism.

 

IdaBriggs

(10,559 posts)
52. Yes, I am with you. There are lots of women in power that I trust.
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 01:29 PM
Mar 2016

Just not Hillary. She has lied too many times and demonstrated consistently bad judgment on important issues.

 

Arugula Latte

(50,566 posts)
18. OR ...
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 01:20 PM
Mar 2016

We disagree with her on many conservative positions (why is she pro-deathpenalty? disgusting!) and abhor her record of raking in money from Wall St. and her documented lies (this "she's so honest" meme is utter b.s.), and her untrustworthiness and skill at flip-flopping.

Agschmid

(28,749 posts)
38. Its not a meme...
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 01:26 PM
Mar 2016
As for her statements on issues, Politifact, a Pulitzer prize-winning fact-checking organization, gives Clinton the best truth-telling record of any of the 2016 presidential candidates. She beats Sanders and Kasich and crushes Cruz and Trump, who has the biggest “pants on fire” rating and has told whoppers about basic economics that are embarrassing for anyone aiming to be president. (He falsely claimed GDP has dropped the last two quarters and claimed the national unemployment rate was as high as 35%).


Maybe it's a meme in the sense that it's being repeated but thats about it.

jillan

(39,451 posts)
19. Here we go again! The reason people don't support Hillary must be because she is a woman.
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 01:21 PM
Mar 2016


I want to vote for a candidate because I believe that person is the best to lead the country.
I don't care about the color of their skin, their religion or their genitals!

This kind of crap - this poor woman crap - makes me want to cry.

This is NOT what we fought for. We fought for EQUAL Rights and to stop treating women as delicate flowers.

Jeebus women - grow a spine! Women were beaten and thrown in jail for your right to have one.
 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
26. The perception of wrongdoing is often as damaging is the reality of wrongdoing.
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 01:23 PM
Mar 2016

Though, in Hillary's case, I don't believe it's just the perception.

 

B2G

(9,766 posts)
27. So women distrust Clinton because
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 01:23 PM
Mar 2016

we are brainwashed, manipulated and have low self esteem.

Got it.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
45. Article doesn't specify women, does it?
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 01:28 PM
Mar 2016

I think there is some truth to this. It doesn't explain away everything but it's a data point to keep in mind, imo. Clinton sometimes comes across as awkward but I think part of this is because we see her through a filter that has only men's behavior to judge by.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]No squirrels were harmed in the making of this post. Yet.[/center][/font][hr]

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
86. Not every woman behaves the same and Warren comes across as more authentic.
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 01:48 PM
Mar 2016

[hr][font color="blue"][center]No squirrels were harmed in the making of this post. Yet.[/center][/font][hr]

JackInGreen

(2,975 posts)
34. Wait wait...
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 01:26 PM
Mar 2016

So...today's meme is "People cant handle a strong woman." (PATRIARCHY!111!!) or at least the bias there of.



Proceed.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
40. or maybe I'm just against perpetual war, TPP, TPIP, banksters, and everything else the Clinton's
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 01:26 PM
Mar 2016

represent at this point.

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
47. I forgive Hillary for what she had to do to get where she is
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 01:28 PM
Mar 2016

...doesn't mean I think she'd make a good president.

She had to think like a predator and lie down with thieves. I don't admire it.

While it is true that girls are taught to be passive and the glass ceiling is absolutely real--to use this as an excuse for why Hillary is so ethically challenged, is really stretching it.

 

closeupready

(29,503 posts)
54. lol - she is a HORRIBLE candidate; you refuse to see it.
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 01:30 PM
Mar 2016

I get why, but wow, is it laughable the number of excuses y'all have been pulling out of your asses - sexism, male chauvinism, magical thinking in pixie dust and sky fairies who'll send money to finance silly stuff like food and health care ... now some goofy "impostor syndrome" - can't wait for tomorrow's excuse.

Agschmid

(28,749 posts)
58. She is winning at this moment in the pledged delegate count...
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 01:31 PM
Mar 2016

so it seems she might not be such a horrible candidate.

 

closeupready

(29,503 posts)
97. You don't talk like a winner. You and your cohorts, with 50 bazillion excuses
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 02:27 PM
Mar 2016

for her lack of favorability ... you talk like losers.

 

closeupready

(29,503 posts)
105. If Dems want to win the GE, then we need to put up Bernie as the nominee.
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 02:49 PM
Mar 2016

I get the feeling, however, that the DNC would rather lose to the Republicans than see Bernie win.

hollysmom

(5,946 posts)
62. please, I fought in the trenches for years and still respect those struggling,
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 01:33 PM
Mar 2016

I have seen boards of directors and can see where they are just connected people who barely have a single brain between all of them. Checkout the board of directors and find that the same people are on a lot of boards and that doesn't make them smart,it makes the connected and it makes them rich, unreasonably rich for working 1/2 hour a month rubber stamping the president of the corp.

So when I look at the programs HRC supports, I don't see a woman trying to get the job done pragmatically, I see another person who is now rich and doesn't care if they screw the rest but won't be honest about it and say it outloud - I have mine, screw you. It is not about feminism, it is not about bias, it is about my core values as a human being.

I went to a woman's college, and that is not about protecting princesses, it was about the bigotry built into society where boys and men get more of the teachers attention, in a woman's college the females get all the attention for a change. I don't give children pink and blue clothes but rather green and yellow, even though I don't like those colors, I give little girls trucks and erector sets. there is bigotry around us, but there is also corruption and I can view that outside of sexual assets

whatchamacallit

(15,558 posts)
87. Not my experience
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 01:49 PM
Mar 2016

I regard most the women in my life; friends, family, colleagues... to be less "imposter" than the men.

PyaarRevolution

(814 posts)
88. Frankly I would like to see a comparative analysis to women of the same time period.
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 01:58 PM
Mar 2016

Hillary has been very successful but it has had a cost. This is my own opinion, what I'm about to say and I DON'T think all women who grew up at the same time as Hillary have suffered from this, she has internalized certain male behaviors. I speak specifically of the ERA that she grew up of at the time that cultivated this behavior from some during the push to Women's Rights movement.
Trying to emulate certain male behaviors that are prized in business and other industry is the WORST thing you can do. I'm not saying this to say that a woman shouldn't be ambitious or assertive but in the idea that some male personality traits get dragged along with things are one HUGE thing that shouldn't be missed...focusing on short term gains versus long term gains. If you think MOSTLY women pushed for that stupidity I tell you you're wrong.
MEN are the one's who pushed for short term gains over women I would argue. I think Hillary believes in this and I think she's internalized some of the disgusting war mongering nature that seems more intrinsic to men. I am embarrassed most of my gender behaves this way but I do think it is intrinsic as the same idea of boys rough-housing gets expanded to sports like Football, Basketball, LaCrosse, etc. Men are more prone to war like behavior. This being said, I think it's limited to skirmishes and industrial warfare is more a creation of the government itself or machine if you will.

 

highprincipleswork

(3,111 posts)
89. Absolute B.S. I am against Hillary because she is a Corporatacrat, not because she's a woman.
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 02:02 PM
Mar 2016

And any self-respecting Progressive would easily see and admit the same.

I'm not saying there is nothing to any gender issues ever, but those who support Hillary and love the Democratic Party need to absolutely wake up and smell the coffee that the animosity towards her is towards her political positions and the fact she can't be counted on to work for us in a consistent way. That is it!

Give me Elizabeth Warren, and I'm in in an instant!

longship

(40,416 posts)
91. If she is so far ahead, why are you posting all this crapola?
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 02:11 PM
Mar 2016

Imposter syndrome?

Really?

That's a bit of a stretch.

Like many here, I didn't vote for her because:

1. She is ethically challenged.
2. She is beholden to corporations which have caused many of the huge problems in recent years. Esp: big banks, private prisons, etc.
3. She is far too conservative for me.
4. Polling and primary voting says that independent voters will not vote for her.
5. She might lose in November because of that. National polling agrees.
6. There is a perfectly suitable candidate who covers all five of these objections.

Plus, Hillary Clinton is a horrible candidate.

I am done here.

longship

(40,416 posts)
93. The two are orthogonal principles.
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 02:14 PM
Mar 2016

She can be ahead and still be a horrible candidate. And she IS a horrible candidate. She has no ethics.

 

djean111

(14,255 posts)
102. Um, no, I cannot support a candidate who is for war, fracking, the TPP, cluster bombs,
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 02:45 PM
Mar 2016

increased H-1B visas.....just to name a few things.

The assumption that I would be okay with those things if Hillary was a man is, to put it mildly, STUPID.
And the woman-splaining is just insulting. If she is doing that well, why all this bullshit? Very odd.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
104. Policy disagreements do not account for the utter vitriol leveled at Clinton.
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 02:48 PM
Mar 2016

So I'd think some other dynamic was in play.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]No squirrels were harmed in the making of this post. Yet.[/center][/font][hr]

SamKnause

(13,102 posts)
103. 62 year old female.
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 02:47 PM
Mar 2016

I don't support Hillary's policies. (nor do I support many of Bill's policies that Hillary

helped to get passed)

I know she has shown poor judgment.

I know she has changed her positions on many issues.

I don't think she is trustworthy.

Her vision of what the U.S. should be and can be does not match my vision

of what I know the U.S. can be.

gordyfl

(598 posts)
106. I Didn't Support Mitt Romney
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 02:56 PM
Mar 2016

He held those secret fundraisers. Remember his 47% remark?

Hillary holds secret fundraisers.

Mitt Romney had refused to release his taxes.

Hillary refuses to release her secret Wall Street transcripts.

Mitt Romney was heavily bankrolled by Wall Street.

So has Hillary throughout her political career.

I feel Hillary would be more likely to get us into unnecessary wars.

I didn't vote for Romney. I didn't trust him. I don't trust Hillary Clinton, either.

NOTE: Mitt Romney is a man - a candidate I did not trust.

Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»2016 Postmortem»We Expect Women to Have I...