How in the hell is anybody actually defending what Bill said to those BLM activists?!?

[retrowire]

I want to cover just a few lines that Bill said to the people of the United States of America today...

“I don’t know how you would characterize the gang leaders who got 13-year-old kids hopped up on crack and sent them out into the street to murder other African American children. Maybe you thought they were good citizens—she didn’t.”

In that line, Bill Clinton pulled some politician jiu jitsu. That tactic is to twist the message of your opponent. Bill saw BLM activists as opponents and twisted their message to infer that they were supportive of gang leaders that murdered AA children. What in the actual FUCK. And no, that's not a misinterpretation. BLM stands to make us all aware of the large prejudices that still permeate throughout our nation, especially in terms of crime and law enforcement. Do they not? They stand for equal representation of black people.

When you hear that comment coming from Bill Clinton's mouth, do you think he's truthfully describing what BLM is standing for? Do you really?

“You are defending the people who killed the lives you say matter. Tell the truth.”

Again, here he is, telling BLM that ACTUALLY, they defend murderers. And they should totally fess up. Again, I'm not misinterpreting here either. He's literally telling them what they actually mean. Would you defend Bill's commentary here? Would you really?

“The reason they know it’s true is [the protestors] won’t hush. When somebody won’t hush and listen to you, that ain’t democracy. They’re afraid of the truth. Don’t you be afraid of the truth.”

This is some schoolyard bullying tactic right here. "They won't shut up, so I'm right." Really? That's a false equivalency there, Bill. Wanna fold your arms and go "NUH UH" while you're at it?

Then this comment, "When somebody won't hush and listen to you, that ain't democracy." So... It's only democracy when the people shut up and listen to you Bill? Because it goes both ways, maybe you should be the one that hushes and start the listening. Remember when Bernie was protested by BLM in Seattle? He tried to have a dialogue, realized he wasn't allowed to speak, handed over his mic, and LISTENED. Bill? Points the finger at BLM, twists their message, shouts them down, gets them escorted out.

Yep, Clintons are real champions of the people.

How can anyone defend this bullshit? And don't come in here and tell me a simple one liner like, "You don't get it" and forget to explain it to me, because seriously, I would LOVE to know what I'm missing here. This is crazy. I hate the idea of the possibility of our next president being a duo of people who literally get in the face of protestors and lecture them. That is just wrong.

EDIT: REMOVED THE "AFRICA" COMMENT because 2 hours later, somebody finally explained the context below and how it related to Hillary's work against AIDS in Africa. It took 2 fucking hours to get a real response to that one, just want everyone to notice that.

[Motown_Johnny]

1. Blind devotion. n/t

[Xipe Totec]

3. To power. nt

[daleanime]

151. +1

[rhett o rick]

165. Authoritarian adulation. nm

[Rockyj]

172. Please Note My Personal Understandng of BLM & THOUGH...

I am Native American woman & please know how sad & compassionate that I believe most indigenous people feel for other indigenous people who have endured the process of colonization and oppression by people who believe they are more superior then all other races, which happen to be white people.

[JesterCS]

2. Shillary bots with head in sand. N/t

[SoLeftIAmRight]

168. No - they claim that this was bill working on BLM long ago

[virtualobserver]

4. Brilliant post, Retrowire.

[retrowire]

9. Just racking my brain here.

I'm amazed at how blatant this double standard is.

Bernie gets called a racist for being confronted by BLM.

But Bill get's a pass for talking back to BLM?

Hillary gets a pass for getting in the face of a Greenpeace activist?

Hillary gets a pass for telling BLM "Then I'll talk to white people?"

Hillary gets a pass for talking back to Ashley Williams, having her escorted out and then saying she wants to get back to the issues that are important to her?

No, fuck no. That's horseshit.

[virtualobserver]

14. Bill may not get a pass on this one. The tide may be turning.

Keep posting.....Team Hillary DU has no chance at countering your logic.

[arcane1]

41. Sanders supporters were called racist for suggesting BLM adopt different tactics

Hillary literally points her finger in their face and says "Here's what you need to do" and is praised for how she handled it.

Here on DU at least, it was never about the actual needs or concerns of black people. It was about exploiting them for political gain.

[mhatrw]

108. Exactly. The Clintons like African-Americans just as far as they can exploit them.

When Bill or Hill thinks it is strategic to go racist, neither hesitates one minute to do so.

[bvar22]

163. I am mystified why ANY PoC supports ANY Clinton.

No Clinton has done anything for PoC except hurt them.

[dchill]

101. I've been wondering when Bill was gonna stick his foot in his mouth,

Racially speaking. It's been coming. He still thinks he's immune.

He ruined the 2008 campaign, he was bound to ruin this one. Accidental? Who knows?

[Fantastic Anarchist]

134. Did she really say "I'll only talk to white people?"

Wow, just wow, if true.

[retrowire]

135. yes. when she did have an honest dialogue with BLM

http://www.theroot.com/articles/news/2015/08/watch_black_lives_matter_activists_confront_hillary_clinton.html

[mythology]

145. To be fair, that's highly out of context.

The protestors were saying that black people had no role in solving systemic racism. I think that is short sighted of the protesters, but that seemed to be what they were saying they wanted.

[merrily]

5. +1 I can't answer your question.

More at http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=journals&uid=286124&page=2

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2015/08/10/3689728/after-repeated-protests-bernie-sanders-releases-racial-justice-platform/

Meanwhile, back at celebrating Arkansas Confederate History and Heritage Month/Confederate Memorial Day and Confederate Flag Day' ending "welfare as we know know it;" prison for profit;" "deadbeats;" "super predators;" "racially-tinged" campaigning; comparing serving in the US Senate as a US Senator with a "plantation;" and the like.....

See also: http://jackpineradicals.org/showthread.php?2890-Was-Clinton-s-quot-Sistah-Souljah-Moment-quot-really-Clinton-s-Jesse-Jackson-Moment&highlight=Sistah+Souljah

[virtualobserver]

10. actual experience protesting gives you a different perspective

[Karmadillo]

6. Well, you know, the Southern primaries are pretty much over, so...

Excellent post, by the way.

[AuntPatsy]

7. I was on the fence for a bit, needing more information and not the usual out of context

sound bites being so often used to attempt character assassinations etc.

but the simple truth is, even after listening to the whole video for a more honest assessment and after reading your op, it's a simple, easy enough, ugly and inexcusable image of ones inner honesty being exposed, there is no where to hide, not in this day and age,

This is not a pro or anti Bernie or Hillary post, this is about William Clinton......

[retrowire]

17. I appreciate your input.

So, I'm not missing any context on the Africa comment?

[AuntPatsy]

23. Well I can as I I'm sure many others can as well take the comment for what it is.."

I believe it not only sounds racist but condescending towatds his audience and if you would ask me I felt like Bill was throwing down what he viewed to be a gauntlet considering the horrors inflicted Daily over seas insinuating they only care when it's convenient to care....I was disgusted by what I've heard before but by different faces, the message is still the same...

So yes I could say you were missing some 😁

[retrowire]

25. Thank you for the elaboration. :) nt

[JSup]

55. The context is...

Bill Clinton: "I’ll tell you another story about a place where black lives matter: Africa. Hillary as SoS tripled the number of people in Africa whose lives we were saving from AIDS."

[retrowire]

56. thank fucking god

can I get a source??

[JSup]

58. Here it is:

The link starts at 8:30 which is where the comment is.

&feature=youtu.be&t=8m30s

[retrowire]

59. edited op to reflect the new info

thank you. please take notice that you're the only who tried explaining it. it took 2 hours for someone like you to come along but you did and I thank you.

[JSup]

61. Thank you.

I'd have posted sooner but 1) I read this thread late and 2) you asking for context got lost in all the clutter of the other posts.

Here's a link to the thread where I found the video link if you want to see Hillary supporters debating about what Bill said, including comments like:

this is how I feel. He didn't have to mischaracterize the protestors and their concerns while also using Black Lives Matter as a defense. It's tasteless to use that movement's identity against them.

https://www.reddit.com/r/hillaryclinton/comments/4dt1ap/bill_clinton_ill_tell_you_another_story_about_a/

[ViseGrip]

100. gads.....indefensible!

[Fantastic Anarchist]

137. Please excuse my ignorance ..

But what was the Africa comment outside of what you already originally posted? Basically, Clinton said something worse than what was already posted?

Many thanks!

[retrowire]

139. the comment without context was

"let me tell you about a place where black lives matter: Africa"

on its own, its grotesquely reminiscent of racist "black people should go back to Africa" commentary.

I thought it was a Freudian slip of Bill's but thank god someone corrected the line with context. I would have been furious if that was all he said but context, thankfully saved the day on that statement.

his treatment of BLM and twisting of their message still stands though.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

142. Thank you, but what is the context, though?

I'm trying to interpret what he means.

Many thanks!

[retrowire]

143. oh i said it in my edit

he went on to say that black lives matter in Africa BECAUSE Hillary helped reduce the AIDS epidemic going on there by threefold.

so he was tying Hillary's actions to how black lives matter to her, because she helped with that.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

147. Ah, okay. Thanks for the info!

[roguevalley]

182. bill grew up white in a racist state and time. apparently it still seeped

In no matter what his grandpa tried to do. He's rich, schmoozed and above the law. What would he care or remember about being powerless? I cannot stand the thought of him being back in the white house.

[azmom]

8. That was just ugly. Trying to defend his failures

by blaming others.

[babylonsister]

11. Rec'd and thanks. nt

[jillan]

12. Because Breitbart posted about it too. So ya know... it's a right wing smear.

Actually I am not joking. There are a couple of threads accusing us of using rw smear tactics against Hillary.

[retrowire]

15. God damnit, that is my favorite counter argument of theirs too.

NOPE, A RIGHT WING SOURCE SAID THE SKY IS BLUE SO NOW IT ISN'T TRUE.

^^^ That's how stupid that counter argument is btw.

[Else You Are Mad]

136. Anything that is negative

Against Hillary is a right wing smear. Especially if the source of the RW smear is from a media outlet (right wing or left wing) that is not a Hillary propaganda outfit. Those outlets are the onlyacceptable sources for info on Hillary.

[cui bono]

13. Bill needs to read this book: Dark Alliance: The CIA, the Contras, and the Cocaine Explosion

so he can learn about how Los Angeles in particular got so much crack in the black neighborhoods. Maybe he can go sit down with some ex-CIA agents and have them tell him a little story about how they were involved in it.

In August 1996, Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Gary Webb stunned the world with a series of articles in the San Jose Mercury News reporting the results of his year-long investigation into the roots of the crack cocaine epidemic in America, specifically in Los Angeles. The series, titled “Dark Alliance,” revealed that for the better part of a decade, a Bay Area drug ring sold tons of cocaine to Los Angeles street gangs and funneled millions in drug profits to the CIA-backed Nicaraguan Contras.

Gary Webb pushed his investigation even further in his book, Dark Alliance: The CIA, The Contras, and the Crack Cocaine Explosion. Drawing from then newly declassified documents, undercover DEA audio and videotapes that had never been publicly released, federal court testimony, and interviews, Webb demonstrates how our government knowingly allowed massive amounts of drugs and money to change hands at the expense of our communities.

Webb’s own stranger-than-fiction experience is also woven into the book. His excoriation by the media—not because of any wrongdoing on his part, but by an insidious process of innuendo and suggestion that in effect blamed Webb for the implications of the story—had been all but predicted. Webb was warned off doing a CIA expose by a former Associated Press journalist who lost his job when, years before, he had stumbled onto the germ of the “Dark Alliance” story. And though Internal investigations by both the CIA and the Justice Department eventually vindicated Webb, he had by then been pushed out of the Mercury News and gone to work for the California State Legislature Task Force on Government Oversight. He died in 2004.

http://www.amazon.com/Dark-Alliance-Tie--Contras-Explosion/dp/1609806212/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1460072991&sr=1-1&keywords=dark+alliance

.

[questionseverything]

34. if you look at everything bad...usually the cia is involved

i would bet the heroin epidemic has similar paths

[cui bono]

98. Well there's this: Drug War? American Troops Are Protecting Afghan Opium.

Drug War? American Troops Are Protecting Afghan Opium. U.S. Occupation Leads to All-Time High Heroin Production
http://www.globalresearch.ca/drug-war-american-troops-are-protecting-afghan-opium-u-s-occupation-leads-to-all-time-high-heroin-production/5358053

U.S. Troops Patrolling Poppy Fields In Afghanistan (Photos)
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/10/14066.html

I don't know if these are decent sources or not, but I do recall hearing these stories a while back.

.

[questionseverything]

144. it is not the average soldier bringing tons of it back

so the question is

who or what agency has the power to bring this crap here without being discovered?

[frylock]

36. Recommended reading to be sure.

[demosincebirth]

109. He's already read that book and ten thousand more.

[cui bono]

146. What an odd post.

[demosincebirth]

192. It is what it is. Plain English.

[nichomachus]

16. Bill has lost it

He's quickly becoming an embarrasment. It's too bad. He used to be a really savvy guy.

[Punkingal]

21. He became an embarrassment when he lied about Monica Lewinsky.

And I defended his sorry, lying ass.

[Yurovsky]

29. If an average American executive had "relations" with an intern...

They'd be out on their ass faster than you can spell "sexual harassment"... It stunk to high heaven. It's one thing to have an affair. People are human. But taking advantage of a young naive intern, lying about it, smearing her name in the process... That's not the type of behavior I'll accept from ANYBODY, regardless of their politics. If Bernie pulled the same stunt in the Oval Office, I'd want him to resign. It's simply wrong.

And I wonder how many of the women who accused WJC of sexual impropriety were actual victims and not merely the product of dragging a $20 bill through a trailer park (to quote Clinton apologist James Carvile).

[roguevalley]

183. Monica bore the greatest burden to this day

[Bill USA]

18. I must have missed something, Is it BILL Clinton running 4 Dem nomination? I thought it was Hillary?

[babylonsister]

22. He's 'helping' her. Maybe she should ask him to go away. nt

[Yurovsky]

31. It's a 2-for-1, just ask Hillary...*

NM

[bvf]

46. Her campaign decided to take him

out of mothballs to stump. His embarrassing words and actions are not only fair game, but what you can expect in another Clinton White House. Maybe he himself expects more third-party blow jobs. Who's to say?

Hope he keeps it up.

[NCjack]

50. The Clintons are a team. Bill will be co-president if Hillary is elected. /nt

[bvf]

114. Very true.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if he actually expected to have a bigger say in things, should we be so unlucky as to see her in office.

You can damn well bet there were some private negotiations that went on when the whole sordid Lewinsky business hit the fan during his presidency.

[jonestonesusa]

94. Being married to a president is very similar to being president.

If being a first lady is part of executive experience, doesn't being a first man count too?

[cui bono]

99. Well the way he brazenly breaks electioneering laws you'd think it was him.

I wouldn't think someone would do that for anyone else.

.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

121. Surrogates are fair game in politics. We realize Hillary's supporters believe special rules to apply

to poor Hillary.

[CharlotteVale]

19. K&R

[AzDar]

20. ...

[BernieforPres2016]

24. Bill dug himself a hole by trying to defend the indefensible

Unless I heard it wrong, things started when Bill first responded to the protestors by trying to defend Hillary's 1996 "super predators" quote that everybody has heard. The research that had produced that super predator theory (Hillary didn't invent the term was subsequently discredited:

https://theintercept.com/2016/02/25/activists-want-hillary-clinton-apologize-hyping-myth-superpredators-1996/

<In those remarks, Clinton appeared to endorse the subsequently discredited theory that American cities were threatened by a swelling wave of violent crime from a new generation of young “superpredators.”

That theory, as a New York Times video report shows, was eventually described as wrongheaded and destructive even by the political scientist most associated with the term, John J. DiIulio Jr. — but not before it helped justify a wave of harsh sentencing guidelines for juveniles across the country.>

Bill could have said that we believed this at the time and it was eventually proven wrong, that Hillary regrets using the term, and that he regrets some of the bad outcomes that were unintended consequences of the Crime Bill and the Welfare Reform bill. But no, being a Clinton means never admitting you were wrong, it is to feel persecuted and to lash out at anybody who dares to question you. So Bill launched into his usual historical revisionism, we did the right thing, everything that happened bad was somebody else's fault.

[PufPuf23]

26. Just awesome Bill Clinton. Explain this ugly. eom.

[Jitter65]

27. You can defend it if you lived it and lost family lives from gangs and thugs. That's how!! nt

[retrowire]

30. Hello, I grew up in a city of crime.

Living in areas of crime and gangs and thugs and being a victim of crime, does not and I repeat DOES NOT...

....give anyone the right to tell BLM that they are actually defending murderers.

It doesn't give anyone the right to tell BLM activists to hush because them speaking up is against democracy.

So, just because someone is a victim of violent crime, it sadly does not give them the right to shout back at BLM and tell them that they're wrong. Nope, it doesn't work that way.

[Jitter65]

51. I just didn't hear it like you heard it. Civility works both ways...except where BS supporters are

concerned. Everyone has a right to defend their position. BLM has a right to express themselves so do people responding to them. It doesn't work that way when you don't want to hear something that goes against your preconceived notions. Listening is the first step in learning. I saw Bill Clinton listen to them and then ask for a chance to be heard.

[retrowire]

53. from op

When somebody won't hush and listen to you, that ain't democracy." So... It's only democracy when the people shut up and listen to you Bill?

[mhatrw]

111. LOL. And did you apply the same standard to Sanders' interactions with BLM?

Oh, that's right. There is more to gain by the Clintons' acting racist at this point in the primary campaign.

[noiretextatique]

149. +1000 we have a winner

[floriduck]

28. It was my belief that when Bill started this rebuttal,

the more he said, the more I felt he really still believes his crime and incarceration so bill was the right thing to do. I think he tried to change his position when he saw what it was doing to Hillary's campaign. In other words, if she were not running, he'd still support his legislation.

[uponit7771]

32. "when you talk about ghettos traditionally, what you talk about is African-American communities. "

[retrowire]

38. i was one of the Bernie supporters here that thought that line

wasn't well thought out.

now, since this op poses the question of how could anyone defend Bill, why don't you try answering that instead of deflecting. lol

[uponit7771]

42. Bill gets the benefit of the doubt, I've not even read what he said ... Sanders does not especially

... after Cornell West

[retrowire]

44. you haven't even read what bill said? nt

[uponit7771]

45. Nope, he defended his wife Sanders had Cornell West stump for him... any questions? tia

[retrowire]

49. nope lol.

I get it, as long as someone is defending their wife, they can insult an activist group as much as they want. lmao

hey you didn't even read it though right?

[uponit7771]

70. Nah, just Sanders doesn't have much room to talk when it comes to BLM. Cornell West stumping

... for him in front of mostly white IA and NH scrapped that.

[retrowire]

72. Got it, Cornell West, Cornell West, Cornell West.

Henry Kissinger, Bill Clinton, George W Bush, Goldman Sachs, Rahm Emanuel, etc...

I mean, since associates make the candidate right?

What did Cornell West do wrong anyways? He criticized Obama right? What else did he do? Because I don't care about the Obama stuff... We're not North Korea, we can criticize our president.

[uponit7771]

74. None of those people stumped for Clinton after calling Obama niggerized like Cornell West did last..

... year so response = fail.

And no one who's honest with themselves believes calling someone niggerized is just "criticism".... so... whatever

[retrowire]

76. I may not agree with what he said, but I'll defend to the death his right to say it.

That's Voltaire by the way.

He can say what he wants. Buuut.... He didn't say that while stumping for Bernie. He was voicing his own opinion. In America, you can do that.

Opinions are lesser than actions though, which by Hillary's associates, I'd consider their actions and hers a greater grievance than one man who voiced an opinion with the N-word.

But, you can keep stacking Cornell West's one statement as proof that Bernie is terrible for BLM all you want. It doesn't make sense but, this is America and you're entitled to that opinion. Enjoy it.

[uponit7771]

79. It isn't just "one" statement from West or Sanders either ... it's a continued strain from them in

... regards to Obama and Sanders, like west, has gone too far a lot of times including his statements about blacks and his attitude as a whole.

There's no wonder this "progressive" icon is losing black votes where there's more than 20% black dems by 30's and 40 percentage.

Either way, Bill gets benefit of the doubt...

Sanders?

not so mcuh

[retrowire]

85. All praise be to Obama.

Any slight on Obama is a slight against all AA's.... So sayeth the Hillary.

Keep going. It's changed nothing so far.

[uponit7771]

87. Strawman, no one said that... and calling Obama "niggerized" and having that person stump

... for him in IA isn't a "slight" either.

Keep minimizing their fuck ups ... keep wondering why he's losing this revolution so bad

[retrowire]

89. I know no one said that.

That's not what a strawman is lol

And, I'm not minimizing "their fuck ups." It was Cornell West's words, before stumping for Bernie. So really, it was Cornell's fuck up.

You just keep trying to meld Cornell and Bernie into one single being for some reason lol

[uponit7771]

91. They're not one person but when it comes to Obama they're of one mind: They don't like him...

... and it comes out in sundry ways

[retrowire]

92. sundry ways eh?

Well, I don't think Obama is the bees knees either. Problem? I really like him, and I know he's done a lot of good!

But he ain't perfect. I don't like that he considered cutting Social Security that one time for example.... I don't like his casual use of drone strikes either. I don't like how easy he's been on Wall St. Or the TPP.

But meh....

[uponit7771]

120. So out of 12341234 issues you name 8 and Obama aint shit hunh... but... but... people have syndromes

... for not supporting Sanders who has around 8 issues himself a lot of people can't stand right off the bat.

Whatever

[retrowire]

140. i am also one of the bernie supporters who didnt agree with

the Stockholm syndrome statement.

:/ lol you just keep trying don't you? I'm not racist. sorry?

anyways, I also didn't say that Obama ain't shit. I praised him too. soooo... have a good day! lol XD

[melman]

102. Here's a question

Why post ten times in a thread when you don't even bother to read the OP?

[choie]

95. Why does Bill Clinton

Get the benefit of a doubt? Because of his wonderful policies like the crime bill? Why?

[uponit7771]

119. Nope, wonderful relationships kept for years... the same can't be said for Sanders and then

... he starts out his relationship by having someone who called Obama niggerized last year stump for him mostly in front of states like IA and NH

[choie]

122. "wonderful relationships?"

you mean he's a good bullshitter? Are Clinton supporters so unsophisticated? Bernie is an empathetic, compassionate man and his policies are much more favorable toward the majority of people, including people of color.

[TCJ70]

125. They've upped their rhetoric...

...it used to be "imperfect relationship" as the excuse for everything. I guess everything is A-OK now, though.

[uponit7771]

126. Yeap, imperfect but there... vs absent until votes are needed that's way more bullshit than whatever

... Clinton has or hasn't done.

[choie]

127. there where?

what makes him "there?" what has he DONE?

[uponit7771]

128. In churches, schools, community centers and doesn't choose someone who called Obama niggerized

... to stump for him or her in front of mostly white people in IA or NH?

that enough for you?

[choie]

129. No, it isn't enough for me...

how does that affect one's life? If his policies have only hurt people, then going to churches, schools, community centers...or having an office in Harlem, doesn't do a damn thing to make life better. He's a fraud.

[uponit7771]

130. The person who's always been there speaking on a communities issues have more credibility than

... someone who comes along JUST to ask for votes who choose someone that called the first black president niggerized last year stump from them.

Just sayin, bout time people listen for a change on this issue... its been talked about ad nausea around here

[choie]

133. ad nausea is right...

[CoffeeCat]

173. I remember West being in Iowa

Last edited Fri Apr 8, 2016, 07:41 PM - Edit history (1)

and campaigning with Bernie in Iowa. We love Cornel West and we love Obama. We're so proud to have been the FIRST state for Obama to win, despite the media and everyone else telling us that Hillary was inevitable in the 08 caucuses.

I know I live in a very white state. I have always had nothing but immense respect for West. I have listened to his speeches and I always thought he was brilliant. I never knew that he said that about Obama.

Please understand that Iowans went to hear West stump for Bernie, because West has a great deal to say about civil rights, justice and equality.

[noiretextatique]

156. Then you are a useful tool

Aiding and abetting a long history of race-baiting by the Clintons.

[uponit7771]

157. race baiting = cornell west

[noiretextatique]

159. Race-baiting: Sistah Souljah

And defending the blatantly racist superpredator theory. Supporting for-profit prisons, and using white hysteria about crime to pass 3 strikes laws. How can you look in the mirror? You know damn well this bs is not right.

[noiretextatique]

150. Truth...too bad you have an issue with it

Given the dismal economic realities. So sorry Clarence Thomas cannot get a cab.

[uponit7771]

158. truth only to racist minded folk or those who don't have normal exposure to a wide swath of balcks

[noiretextatique]

162. Elitist bullshit

for the black upper class. Meanwhile, the lower classes are not doing so well, especially in ghettos

[DonCoquixote]

33. it is just coincidence

That Bill started this after his wife benefited from what the Clinton campaign called the "firewall"? I can understand why many AA's do not trust Bernie; even I will admit he botched the job, BUT, language like this tells me the Clintons are ready to sell out ex members of said firewall as firewood.

[brush]

106. The phrase "super predator" by Hillary was a reference to crack dealers in black neighborhoods

Last edited Fri Apr 8, 2016, 02:41 PM - Edit history (2)

That word was taken out of a paragraph but the whole graph where Hillary characterized crack dealers who pushed that drug into the black community as super predators is not ever quoted, even the video was edited to make it seem she was talking about black kids instead of crack dealers.

The language is raw but so were those times. I know many don't want to hear it but many black folks, myself included, were demanding action to get the crack scourge out of the community. It was a huge problem as many teens and some adults were getting addicted, stealing to get the drug and getting arrested and having their futures ruined.

That's what Bill was trying to explain. He didn't do a great job of it though as he got over excited and got confrontational with the confrontational protestors.

Not good optics at all, but I still say that villainizing Hillary for that is unfair and a misunderstanding of the zeitgeist back then by people who were mostly not even born then and maybe don't know what a horrible problem it was (and btw, the Congressional Black Caucus, many other dems, and Bernie Sanders also voted for the crime bill).

And I'm a supporter of BLM.

[tonedevil]

177. So super predators...

actually is a reference to the people who pushed crack cocaine into the black community, in other words the CIA.

[brush]

186. That's right. Them and their agents, the higher up, intermediate level and local pushers . . .

Last edited Fri Apr 8, 2016, 09:42 PM - Edit history (1)

yes. Absolutely. The thing that people with not-so-hidden agendas emit in the telling of the story, or don't want to admit, is that the CIA involvement in the Contra arms-for-drugs operation originated in the Reagan administration and continued on into Daddy Bush's.

It was not initiated under Bill Clinton, but the devastating results on black communities were felt under the Clinton administration, thus the uproar at the time to do something about the drug scourge.

You probably remember that investigative reporter Gary Webb of the "San Jose Mercury News" broke the story of arms for drugs back then but the CIA and government forces came down on him to discredit his reporting so hard that his editors and the paper backed off and totally marginalized him and destroyed his career. He was later found dead and it was declared a suicide but many believe he was assassinated as he wouldn't give up on the story that was extremely damaging to St. Ronnie and many in his administration.

There's a lot more to the falsehood that Hillary called black kids super predators than many want out there.

[arcane1]

35. If Donald Trump had said it, DU would be unanimous in its opposition.

[RKP5637]

37. I continue to lose respect for Bill And Hillary, more and more each day. n/t

[Marr]

39. Because they don't actually give a shit, and never did. /nt

[timlot]

40. BLM is supposed to be about Police brutality/excessive force. Not standing up for drug dealers/gangs

Let me preface my statement by saying I'm a 34yo AA male. A lot of the young BLM protesters were too young in the 90s to know about the drugs and gang violence that was going on in the black community. It was hell. I know because I lived through it. I didn't get involved in drugs or commit crimes. There for "I NEVER WENT TO JAIL". I don't not feel sorry for anybody of any race that commits crimes (violent or other wise).

[BigBearJohn]

43. Bill Clinton is burying any.chance Hillary might have for winning.

Thanks Bill. Give the man a cigar.

[merrily]

65. I will never give him a cigar.

[marmar]

47. They were for BLM before they were against them.

[EndElectoral]

48. Bill ,sometimes silence is golden. Shut up.

[MuseRider]

52. I have not told you often enough

how much I think of many of your posts.

I agree.

I suppose I should not have been surprised when I heard this but I was. It saddens me and it makes me very angry.

[merrily]

66. +1

[1StrongBlackMan]

54. I must say ... All this concern about BLM ...

and getting its message correct from Sanders supporters is ... erm ... Heartwarming!

As I have sad before, What a difference a few months make.

[retrowire]

60. so honorable of you to misinterpret my concern as new... nt

[1StrongBlackMan]

63. I mis-interpreted nothing ... you saw an opportunity to attack.

[retrowire]

67. Sigh* Nope, I am not using BLM as a means to attack the Clinton campaign.

There, I said it plain as day. Their message was being twisted against them, I said that's bullshit and that is all. I hope you agree?

Hey, remember this? It's good to see you don't have me on ignore, maybe now you can read my reply to you when you wondered why anyone on Wall St needed to be prosecuted and what for:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7738590

[Bluenorthwest]

82. I've always been supportive of BLM and I've posted this video in the past, Bill is a known entity to

some of us and has been for years. Here he is being a jerk to an AIDS activist in 1992:

So I'd say this goes right back to you. I can quote your harsh words against LGBT activists and against the disruptive tactics BLM uses when LGBT uses them. Heartwarming. Do you want links? I'm trying to spare you a full display of your line of designer hypocrisies.

[1StrongBlackMan]

93. Yeah ... Okay.

what penance must I pay for ill advised words ... that I have retracted after learning better and explaining my process?

[Bluenorthwest]

190. Stop smearing Sanders supporters with fasle generalities.

You said this: "All this concern about BLM ...

and getting its message correct from Sanders supporters is ... erm ... Heartwarming!

As I have sad before, What a difference a few months make."

I posted an objection based on my own history as a BLM supporting Sanders supporter and I mentioned that you have not always been supportive of other minority protesters. You accuse me of that which you yourself have actually done. That is classic hypocrisy and I pointed that out.

[1StrongBlackMan]

191. Why do you work so hard to make yourself a victim? ...

That is not a price I am willing to pay. Clearly, I was not "smearing Sanders supporters."

if you were supportive of BLM when the most vocal of DU's Sanders supporters were not ... then, I was not referring to you (or Sanders supporters, in general).

I mentioned that you have not always been supportive of other minority protesters.

Can you point to an instance, in the past 7 (or so) years, where I have not been supportive of other minority protesters.

As I have said ... every time you post this crap ... Once it was brought to my attention, I have reflected and reconsidered my behavior ... That is what led to my question to you.

[mhatrw]

112. I must say, that is not even close to a defense of what Clinton said.

LOL at anyone who supports a clear racist.

[steve2470]

113. you seriously think 1StrongBlackMan would support a racist ?

He really is a black man. The AA group will vouch for him.

Good day.

[mhatrw]

115. I want see those in the AA group vouch for what Bill Clinton said a few hours ago.

Can you link me up with your favorite defense?

[Jackie Wilson Said]

152. IF stats are consistent and Democratic Underground is 90% white, it would

seem to me to be a whole bunch of white people with opinions on something they know nothing about, whether you support what Bill said or not.

[1StrongBlackMan]

153. But they know EVERYTHING ... They keep telling me so.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

155. Must be a defect in you, because you still arent listening.

Maybe they will never learn. Who knows.

[1StrongBlackMan]

160. LOL ...

Yes ... it's a congenital, and parentally nurtured, defect.

[Kip Humphrey]

57. THE-LIVES-YOU-SAY-MATTER Bill

...gotta remember that.

[hobbit709]

62. Because to the true believers Hillary not only walks on water, her shoes don't even get damp.

[GreatGazoo]

64. Racists were trolling Twitter today, agreeing with Bill Clinton "for once"

he should be ashamed.

[Cheese Sandwich]

181. seen it too. nt

[JSup]

68. I will try...

“You are defending the people who killed the lives you say matter. Tell the truth.”


Again, here he is, telling BLM that ACTUALLY, they defend murderers. And they should totally fess up. Again, I'm not misinterpreting here either. He's literally telling them what they actually mean. Would you defend Bill's commentary here? Would you really? ”

Can't, and wouldn't, defend this one.

“The reason they know it’s true is won’t hush. When somebody won’t hush and listen to you, that ain’t democracy. They’re afraid of the truth. Don’t you be afraid of the truth.”

This is some schoolyard bullying tactic right here. "They won't shut up, so I'm right." Really? That's a false equivalency there, Bill. Wanna fold your arms and go "NUH UH" while you're at it?

Here is a quote from earlier in his comments (which I believe he meant). Source: https://np.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/4dsozk/bill_clinton_black_lives_matter_protesters_are/d1u15ib

Wait a minute, wait a minute, I heard it, Can I answer. Here's the thing, can I answer, but the ones that won't let you answer are afraid of the truth. At every campaign rally I welcome the protesters. I had a guy in South Carolina who interrupted me and the crowd started booing and I said no, let's be quiet and listen to this person. I let him say the same thing twice. And I said may I answer and he just kept screaming.

Not that they should shut up and listen to him, but that they (he and them) should listen to each other.

[retrowire]

71. I like you!

So, on the last comment you've got there, I think we can all agree on this....

Protestors in the middle of a rally are not there to have a dialogue. Anywhere. You cannot have a conversation amidst hundreds of people.

They were there to disrupt, which was the purpose. It started a national dialogue though. What would have been best is if Bill had said, "Fine, let's talk about this after the rally." Where a real conversation could have happened.

Unfortunately though, Bill, just like Hillary don't like being heckled and they make opponents out of activists. In my own heart, it's NEVER appropriate for someone who might be our next leader to talk down to or argue with or shut up an activist. An activist is the bravest of we the people, and they should be respected. Even if they're just any other citizen. They're brave. They deserve a lended ear.

[JSup]

73. Definitely...

...don't shout them down; answer as best you can and move on.

Hey, wait a minute; did a Bernie supporter (you) and a Hillary supporter (me) just talk about something emotionally charged without killing each other?

Apocalypse.

[retrowire]

75. Well that's because we didn't let emotion impede our ability to reason with each other.

You see, I wrote an impassioned op because I was upset by what Bill said. As an American citizen, it concerns me to think that our next leader could behave like that. Thusly, I voice my concern.

BUT, you notice that it took 2 hours before you came along and actually gave me an answer.

The reason most Hillary supporters don't give an answer is because they too, are emotionally charged. Also, they don't trust Bernie supporters to be open to reason, so most of them replied to me with deflection or snark. Why reason with me? I'm just another Bernie supporter and I'll probably be a jerk right?

It goes both ways of course, Bernie supporters don't trust Hillary supporters to be open to reason so, why try? Let's just be snarky to each other.

BUT, in our case, you gave it a shot, and I responded appropriately (i think lol) and we reached a balanced conclusion. I thank you for extending to me the courtesy of an intelligent discourse! It is certainly refreshing.

[JSup]

77. Well, you looking for context...

...showed that you actually wanted a real, honest answer instead of a bunch of "Yeah, me too!"

But yeah, our two sides do not trust each other to be open to reason. It's sad, but 'yay politics'.

Edit: I do snark sometimes, but I try so hard not to.

[retrowire]

78. It's ok, it's the nature of politics.

The snark will come out! ugh...

Thanks for understanding that I actually wanted an answer.

[Contrary1]

96. Nope...false analogy.

"...but the ones that won't let you answer are afraid of the truth."

Even if he was allowed to respond, it doesn't necessarily mean that his answer would have been truthful.

However; any questions or comments should have been presented in a respectful manner to begin with.

[uponit7771]

69. How is anybody defending someone who called Obama niggerized stumping for Sanders in front of

... mostly white people in IA and NH and no where to be found now?

No really, folk don't want to hear shit from Sanders camp on issues like BLM etc...

[retrowire]

86. Who's defending it?

lol deflection.

He didn't say that statement while stumping for Bernie either. So, nice spin. Wow.

And if you don't want to hear from Sanders camp about BLM... then.. how will you listen to Erica Garner? She... She's apart of Sanders camp!!! AND BLM. OMFG

[uponit7771]

88. Do a search, bunch of people still calling West critique "slights"

[retrowire]

90. A critique like that is a slight.

We gonna argue vocabulary now? Geez.

Slight:

verb
1.
insult (someone) by treating or speaking of them without proper respect or attention.
"he was careful not to slight a guest"
synonyms: insult, snub, rebuff, repulse, spurn, treat disrespectfully, give someone the cold shoulder, scorn;

[uponit7771]

188. wow... now you're standing behind semantics... typical... no really typical.

[retrowire]

189. lol you're the one who argued definitions not me XD nt

[Cheese Sandwich]

185. Nice deflection

Those things are not equal at all.

[kennetha]

80. Do you remember the 90's

Community activists, social workers and psychologists who have studied the effects on young people of living amid violence say children who plan their own funerals are showing that they do not expect to live long.

"It's strange to hear young kids talking about dying, but that goes along with the times," said Sharon Brooks, 32, an instructor at the Boys and Girls Club. "For them to come tell you someone was murdered the night before is just like regular conversation."

William W. Johnson, a former police officer who works with youths in the District, said death is almost a daily reality for some.

"It's happening around them. . . . These kids come home to dope, guns and killing. We're living in a war zone," Johnson said. "They actually believe they are not going to be around. If you look at the circumstances and the facts, they have enough to think that way."


GETTING READY TO DIE YOUNG

[Bluenorthwest]

84. I rememberr the 90's. Here's Bill berating AIDS activists in 1992

[Warren DeMontague]

118. So, now we've filled our prisons with drug users. Great.

[potone]

81. The point he was trying to make...

and made somewhat clumsily , is that the crime bill that he signed was complicated, and that the gang violence in the 90s was disproportionately affecting the African American community. I remember that time, and it was bad. Not that it is better in all places now; the level of violence in Chicago is horrifying. I didn't listen to the whole speech, I only saw an excerpt, but from what I saw, I think he was trying to do two things: state that the intent of the crime bill wasn't to destroy communities but to lessen the violent crime and serious drug-dealing in them, and, at the same time, to state that Hillary wasn't responsible for those decisions. So I think he was defending his own record as well as defending her.

I would love to hear the take on this from members of the African American group, especially those who are old enough to remember Clinton's presidency.

[rjj621]

104. Drawing a black on the bill in question

Which bill was referenced in this speech? I can't form an opinion one way our the other without watching the while video and knowing the background.

[reddread]

83. is he talking about CIA assets?

[ViseGrip]

97. That is the Clinton vote block, they beat Bernie with. I hope they wise up!

[amborin]

103. you can't defend it

[kennetha]

105. Full Quote

(President Bill Clinton) Wait a minute, wait a minute, I heard it, Can I answer. Here's the thing, can I answer, but the ones that won't let you answer are afraid of the truth (cheers) At every campaign rally I welcome the protesters. I had a guy in South Carolina who interrupted me and the crowd started booing and I said no, let's be quiet and listen to this person. I let him say the same thing twice. And I said may I answer and he just kept screaming. Then a lady next to him said, and I said wait, let's listen to her. I let her say the same thing twice. Okay, may I answer. She just kept on screaming Now look what she is referring to is the increasing sentencing provisions of the 1994 Crime bill. 90 percent of the people in prison too long are in state prisons and local jails. But it's also true that there are too many people in the federal prisons, President Obama is trying to let them out. Here's what happened. When I became president the headlines in the newspaper, were full. Now wait a minute, I listen to you, you listen to me. Vice president Biden his family comes from Scranton, he was the chairman of the committee, I had an assault weapons ban in it, we had money for inner-city kids for out of school activities we had 110 thousand police officers so we could put people on the street not in these military vehicles so they would look like the people they were policing we did all of that (applause) and Biden said you can't pass this bill the republicans will kill it unless you put more sentencing in. I talked to a lot of African American groups, they thought black lives mattered they said take this bill because our kids are being shot in the street by gangs. We had 13 year old kids planning their funerals. She don't want to hear any of that. You know what else she doesn't want to hear because of that bill we had a 25 year low in crime a 33 year low in the murder rate, and listen to this because of that and the background check law we had a 46 year low in deaths of people by gun violence and who do you think those lives were that matter. Whose lives were saved that mattered.(Cheers and applause) Hillary didn't vote for that bill because she wasn't in the senate she was spending her time trying to get health care for poor kids. Who were they? (cheers) And their lives mattered. (Cheers) Ooohhhh (boos) now wait a minute, wait a minute Now you're screaming. So let's do another one. (Crowd starts chanting HRC, HRC) Wait, see these other signs, that's what's the matter. I don't know how you would characterize the gang leaders who got 13 year old kids hopped up on crack, and sent them out in the streets to murder other African-American children maybe you thought they were good citizens, she didn't , she didn't (loud cheers) You are defending the people who killed the lives you say matter. (Crowd cheers wildly) Tell the truth, you are defending the people, who caused young people to take guns, there was a 13 year old girl who was planning her own funeral (still hear protesters) That's not true And the reason they know it's true, because they won't hush. When somebody won't hush and listen to you that ain't democracy they are afraid of the truth. Don't you be afraid of the truth (cheers) Don't be afraid of the truth.

[Martin Eden]

164. Thanks. Context helps.

The crime bill, like any large piece of legislation, is a mixed bag. It may have helped reduce violent crime but also incarcerated far too many nonviolent drug offenders, disproportionately AA.

The fact is that some hardened gangland criminals could accurately be labeled "super predators."

Another undeniable fact is that BLM activists have very legitimate grievances for the injustices that continue to be inflicted on the AA community by institutional racism in the criminal justice system, as well as by the economic and political establishment.

Emotions run high, and any attempt to rebut the protesters can be escalated way out of proportion in this heated election season. It is nearly impossible to have a calm, rational, discussion that can lead to positive collaborative progress. Nevertheless, voices which have been marginalized far too long must be heard, and given a fair margin of leeway and respect.

I am no fan of the Clintons, and what Bill is doing now is making an effort to get Hillary elected. Her opponents are making an effort to turn whatever they can against her.

Welcome to politics in America, circa 2016.

[mhatrw]

107. Where are all Clinton's AA supporters?

Where oh where could they be?

[KPN]

110. Great post Retro.

You captured the sentiments I had while watching the interview perfectly.

[Warren DeMontague]

117. You have people here who will defend DWS's support for putting medical marijuana users in prison.

Seems like a day won't go by without a thread or two parroting Ayn Rand club for growth whiny bullshit about "they want free stuff" and what kind of crazy person thinks single payer health care is a good idea and holy fuck how can anyone support an UNREASONABLY HIGH 15 dollar minimum wage, being paid to "deadbeats".

Then you have the hippie punching and attacks on "the left".

Honestly, very little surprises me anymore. We have some real authoritarian types here.

[choie]

131. not to mention payday loans...

[Nye Bevan]

123. Thanks for the edit (nt)

[retrowire]

124. no problem! nt

[Fantastic Anarchist]

132. Well, I'm kicking and reccing the hell out of this.

Great post!

[Fairgo]

138. Good question

I think eventually to much time in the bubble leads to oxygen deprivation and methane poisoning. Not good for the frontal lobes.

[Rebkeh]

141. Honestly,

to my eyes it looks like a sleazy attempt to divide and conquer. Why not? When you want to win, you do what works.

Sad thing is.... it still works. We just never learn. This is not on him, it's on us.

[Dragonfli]

161. Divide and conquer is always the plan used by an elite group outnumbered by those they oppress.

Any candidate that would actively try to divide Americans across racial and cultural lines

Then attempt to foster hatred of each group against the other is harmful not just to the process but to the innocent people they are trying to divide into racial political wars, even if it is only an attempt to do so temporarily (as they likely tell themselves), just until an election is won, it is deplorable behavior and often seen used by hate groups across the globe.
.......
Brock is a big part of this (pit one poor race against another) in order to win victories designed to profit the wealthy at the expense of all the people that will suffer under their trickle down neoliberal policies which will harm all of us struggling people no matter the race, but those that hire them also have a history of agitating people to hate by race and so are just as, if not more, accountable for such deplorable tactics.

It is a tactic often used by the wealthy in order to keep the power and money while continuing to steal even more in the face of glaring wide spread wealth disparity across all racial and social lines, In war the tactic is called divide and conquer, the wealthy have throughout history done this at the point where the difference between the rich and poor becomes widespread and apparent.

A true leader on the other hand, one that wants to help all the people historically tries to bring all the people together to fight the aristocracy.

The entire OP is at the link above

[QC]

148. It's all about supporting the team, silly!

Issues and principles are for geeks!

[merrily]

154. kick

[riversedge]

166. So, you are whinning that you did not get a real response? I passed it by when I read your

subject line and a few opening statements.


....EDIT: REMOVED THE "AFRICA" COMMENT because 2 hours later, somebody finally explained the context below and how it related to Hillary's work against AIDS in Africa. It took 2 fucking hours to get a real response to that one, just want everyone to notice that.

[retrowire]

169. ...?

I got a response. I'm happy about that. it took 2 hours of snarkiness and deflection before a Hillary Supporter stepped up and actually helped out though.

who's whining?

[panader0]

167. Kick.

[Cheese Sandwich]

170. Why not? They've already defended him for getting blowjobs from young interns in the Whitehouse

Some people are just very loyal to this guy. He's got charisma.

Well, not so much charisma anymore.

[w4rma]

171. Hillary's people will, apparently, say anything - exactly like their teacher. (nt)

[Capn Sunshine]

174. Why do you hate America?

I'm not sure Big Dog needs you stirring his pot, he can handle this himself.

What is interesting is how Hillary has become in hindsight the most powerful first lady ever, and was directly involved in Bill Clintons Administration and all the decisions made then.

You can't blame Bill Clinton then for trying to fix the problem of the crack epidemic using today's standards. That was just not the prevalent thinking then.

This whole thing came out of Reagan's Criminal Administration moving crack into the inners cities to fund their private wars.

[B Calm]

175. K&R

[ViseGrip]

176. I hope BLM is organizing a march in NYC - for Bernie Sanders

[tymorial]

178. An attempt at resolving cognitive dissonance

People will argue that it is a generational problem or invent some other excuse. If someone with an R next to their name used the exact same language and spoke from the same script as Clinton, the outrage felt on DU would blow the virtual roof off of this website.. and those same people who cite "generational" would be as loud as the Bernie camp.

[Butterbean]

187. x 10000000 n/t

[Little_Wing]

179. Legend in his own mind

And oh yeah, Clinton apologizers: this particular legislation was "complicated" but anyrhing that Sen Sanders voted for despite aspects he didn't particularly agree with are grounds to burn him at the stake?

It is utterly fascinating watching the pretzels on DU justify the Clinton acrobatics.

[Cheese Sandwich]

180. Not too many jumping in to help Bill on this.

It's been amazing. He has few friends on this.

[Babel_17]

184. I don't think he thought ahead to what the likely reaction will be,

and that New York City will be fertile ground for all activist groups to rise up and speak out.