Did Sanders really only pay 13.4% in taxes last year?

[uponit7771]

If so then the tax question is waaaaaay more important, relative to Sanders rhetoric, than opinions stated in a some speeches no?

That's close to rMoneys tax rate IIRC


Your take?


tia

[seabeyond]

1. That would be close to Romney. Nt

[uponit7771]

3. WOW!!! Now I'd really like to know... OP edited

[Skwmom]

90. Romeny made a hell of a lot more money than Bernie.

[seabeyond]

93. Sanders makes a hell of a lot more than me, and I paid more.

[Human101948]

107. that's a bogus claim...show us your tax return!

You cannot back up that claim.

[seabeyond]

111. Seriously? That is your argument? My gosh... the campaign of the petulent outburst.

[seabeyond]

116. Another nasty post.

[Human101948]

118. Can't back up your claims...

What's nasty is your constant unsubstantiated attacks on Bernie Sanders.

[seabeyond]

122. Because I will not give you my tax information, it warrants personal attack? You might check out

the complaints made toward Sanders supporters. Kinda like demanding Clinton's transcripts that are none of your business. Or hey.... you gonna demand to read her diary, too?

[Human101948]

124. If corporations fund her diary to the tune of $28 million a year I certainly would like to know why

Because they wouldn't be giving her that money to finance her writing ambitions.

I knew Hemingway, and she's no Hemingway.

[Human101948]

125. You make outrageous claims that you cannot substantiate...

The only way you can redeem yourself and prove me wrong is to put out your tax returns.

[JudyM]

120. LOL!

[Corporate666]

161. Sure he can - but it's irrelevant to the point.

The question is... what did Sanders really pay in taxes, and why is he refusing to show his tax returns?

The Sanders family are even lying about the issue. One has to ask one's self why they feel the need to lie rather than just do what all candidates do and release their returns.

[seabeyond]

2. But But But as a socialist, he should be all for paying those taxes for the greater good. I dunno,

gotta wait for the facts, but if true, wowsers, in ironically funny.

[Human101948]

106. That's a Republican talking point...

"Why doesn't Buffet give all his money to the government?"

Because even Buffet's money would be a drop in the bucket. What you need is a system that consistently funds the programs we want.

In the meantime, why don't you donate all your money to the Treasury? You could shame Bernie!

[seabeyond]

108. No it is not RW. It is adult. Adult conversation. A campaign of integrity lecturing me to pay more

To cover his health care and free college as he sits on more. No. That is progressive. I make less. I do not contribute more than him. Isn't he the one supposed to be arguing this?

[Human101948]

112. If you actually read anything about it you would know that what you're saying is hogwash...

Most wealthy European countries do better than either of their North American peers when it comes to rationing by waiting and still manage to spend less.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/edwin-g-dolan/bernie-health-care-europe_b_9387966.html

Providing a free college education for all who want it is expected to cost between $60 and $75 billion. To pay for it, Sanders is proposing a tax on Wall Street trading of stocks and bonds.

The UMass report found that his proposal would conservatively generate about $300 billion per year in new revenue- more than enough to pay for the free college plan.

http://wwlp.com/2016/03/11/bernie-sanders-tuition-free-college-plan-could-work-umass-study-says/

It can be done and it is done already in other countries. The reason you are being feed contrary information is to support those who are making huge bucks off of healthcare insurance and student loans.

But I think you are smart and know that already.

[seabeyond]

115. Lookie... We disagree. I think yours is a bogus argument.

[upaloopa]

4. He must have something that offsets his income so that his AGI is pretty small.

I can see why he doesn't want us to know.

[JudyM]

121. Traveling back and forth to Vermont all the time ....

[Jackie Wilson Said]

126. That's not fair to Bernie. He hasnt enriched himself while in congress like most and his

costs to maintain the life of a Senator would result in deductions higher than most people.

Bernie is a good guy, has not enriched himself or has he been changed by DC.

This is according to a person I know who knows these people, my friend is not a Bernie voter, is Hillary, but will gladly tell you Bernie is the real thing and a good guy.

[upaloopa]

137. I am an accountant. To pay 13.4% on your income you have to have a small AGI

Bernie and his wife make a good income and their tax rate would be higher if they didn't have some deductions and credits to offset that income.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

167. Of course he has deductions, he lives in two places and much of those costs are

deductible.

[anotherproletariat]

5. Did he release his returns? nt

[uponit7771]

6. He released a summery IIRC

[oasis]

7. Jane is one helluva tax guru.

[uponit7771]

8. Yeap, I'd like it confirm if he did and if so I'll update the OP... 13.4% is rMoney tax rate

[oasis]

10. I saw those numbers in an earlier OP, but the more info the better.

[beam me up scottie]

9. Good, good

[seabeyond]

11. You aren't bothered if Sanders is preaching all our taxes go up while he pays elite taxes?

[beam me up scottie]

15. Aren't you worried what Hillary's going to give Wall Street in return for those millions?

[seabeyond]

17. No. 2007 Clinton put together a plan that would actually address the issue instead of just

yelling to destroy them, Lol. I think that Clinton has it well at hand. She gets they are not the enemy, that all of us use and need Wall Street, with controls.

[beam me up scottie]

25. So you're not wondering what advice she gave them? Must be nice to be so comfortable and trusting.

[seabeyond]

34. I have been to plenty of corporate paid speaking events. No, I am not concerned, or interested.

[beam me up scottie]

38. Damn, must be nice. I'm just glad my candidate didn't take millions from special interests.

I know he didn't take part in any pay to play schemes.

And at least he doesn't take foreign policy advice from a war criminal like Kissinger. Did Hillary pay him?

[northernsouthern]

66. Well you have to admit that tax thing is pretty damning.

I am just appalled that Bernie could not have created an LLC shell company! HE is supposed to be an experience politician like the others, why does he not have an LLC shell company? Also why does he not have one for his wife? Is it because he thinks only a man should have an LLC? Is he sexist?

[COLGATE4]

157. I am amused by all who seem to think that having an LLC

is some type of a tax dodge. It's not. With an LLC all the income flows right through it and is treated as ordinary income to the LLC's owners. The LLC itself files no taxes, pays no taxes, has no tax liability whatsoever. It's merely a conduit directly to its owners.

[northernsouthern]

160. Me too.

What is a 'Shell Corporation'
A shell corporation is a corporation without active business operations or significant assets. Shell corporations are not necessarily illegal or illegitimate, as they often serve an important for potential startups. Additionally, shell corporations can act as a tax avoidance for legitimate businesses.

Wait what does tax avoidance mean?

What is 'Tax Avoidance'
Tax avoidance is the use of legal methods to modify an individual's financial situation in order to lower the amount of income tax owed. This is generally accomplished by claiming the permissible deductions and credits. This practice differs from tax evasion, which is illegal.

Ahh so it is a way to legally not pay your taxes. Interesting. I do my own taxes, where it the check box on the 1040A for tax avoidance? I assume it is not just some sort of loop hole that rich people employ to get out of paying back in to our system?

Wait didn't you say...

I am amused by all who seem to think that having an LLC is some type of a tax dodge.

Remind me what is a tax doge again? Is it some sort of way to avoid one's taxes?
Oh wait you said LLC quoting me...

I am just appalled that Bernie could not have created an LLC shell company! HE is supposed to be an experience politician like the others, why does he not have an LLC shell company? Also why does he not have one for his wife? Is it because he thinks only a man should have an LLC? Is he sexist?

Perhaps you missed the shell corporation part. I know someone that had an LLC for a legit reason for his business, I also knew someone that had one to prevent getting sued, like many people that dissolve them to avoid having to pay settlements.

May favorite part is if you look up an LLC you will get multiple sites talking about using it to flow money through to avoid taxes.
http://smallbiztrends.com/2011/11/will-llc-lower-business-taxes.html For smaller companies where you are the single owner, sure, your profit may be low and you need the help, but they made profilts in the top .01%.

[COLGATE4]

162. You fail to understand that an LLC and a corporation

are two entirely different legal animals. So all the yammering about 'shell corporations' is irrelevant when talking about an LLC. With an LLC there are NO corporate taxes, no separate tax filing or tax liability, All the income from the LLC is treated as direct income to the owner(s). So there's no tax avoidance possible.

Speaking of tax avoidance - as you are forced to admit, it's perfectly legal. If you've ever deducted items from your gross income or given to a charity on your 1040 they you have used tax avoidance. Congress amends the Tax Code when it sees fit to ensure compliance and generate revenues, as well as to stimulate certain sectors of the economy. Nothing nefarious or sneaky about it. All deductions are legitimate tax avoidance mechanisms.

What you are trying to talk about is tax evasion which is, by definition illegal. But no one has shown one scintilla of any type of evidence that even remotely suggests that the Clintons are tax evaders[. But then again you already knew that, since you posted this:

What is 'Tax Avoidance'

Tax avoidance is the use of legal methods to modify an individual's financial situation in order to lower the amount of income tax owed. This is generally accomplished by claiming the permissible deductions and credits. This practice differs from tax evasion, which is illegal.

Finally, you are trying to conflate tort liability with tax issues. Corporations and LLC's both prevent the owners from having their personal assets attacked when the corporation or LLC is sued. This was deliberately made part of the LLC (Corporations have always had this)specifically to protect the small business owner. Nothing wrong with that.

In short what we wind up with after all the poutrage about the Clintons' LLC's is just wasted verbiage.

[northernsouthern]

164. Sorry post fail.

are two entirely different legal animals. So all the yammering about 'shell corporations' is irrelevant when talking about an LLC. With an LLC there are NO corporate taxes, no separate tax filing or tax liability, All the income from the LLC is treated as direct income to the owner(s). So there's no tax avoidance possible.

My post was specifically on LLC Shell Companies, so your weird laser attention to just the word LLC shows a lawyer like propensity for bending the truth.

LLC are for LIMITED LIABILITY, that is part of their name, I posted that, it is to avoid being sued, like I said I know people that used it so they could dissolve their LLC and not worry about what they owed. But I also know people that it to avoid taxes on many things (so they only get taxed once is the main one I know of). BUT AGAIN I DID NOT POST LLC BUT LLC SHELL COMPANY, are you saying that the words SHELL COMPANY have no meaning? Is it like the silent k in "K"night? Should we just get ride of the word completely?

[COLGATE4]

165. What do you think a "shell company" means?

Why do you believe that the Clintons' LLC's are, as you put it "LLC shell companies"? Facts, please.

[northernsouthern]

166. Ok.

The narrative from all sources are...
http://theweek.com/speedreads/617761/clintons-are-using-5-shell-companies-save-taxes-delaware

It is to save taxes by placing them in tax havens in the US. I am sure part of it is also to protect assets in case they get sued for something illegal and possibly so they are not on the hook for the cost of something for running for office (I am more foggy on that one, but I recall something about bankruptcy and it can keep those assets from being taken since they are separate...I think that is how one of our family friends cheated the system, his house and personal items were in his LLC, so they were not affected).

[COLGATE4]

168. There are no tax havens for LLCs in the US that I am aware of.

I don't see how it could happen since any money the LLC receives is treated as if the Owner(s) of the LLC received it themselves. It may protect some assets since the LLC is only responsible up to the amount of its capital. Owners personal assets are not exposed to suit. I don't know about in bankruptcy since I did corporate work not bankruptcy. Your family friend might also have been able to protect his home in bankruptcy through Homestead laws in his State (Florida is an example). One thing for sure - if I were ever (hypothetically) advising someone on how to cheat on taxes, forming an LLC would be the last thing I would think of.

[northernsouthern]

169. They definately pulled it off.

I thought that bankruptcy could not take a person's home because they need it to live, but it may have been a second home or such. The funny thing is I think something unrelated later happened to the LLC and it ended up losing the home. It has been several years, and not the closest friend of the family. I am pretty sure they are using the term havens to refer to the fact they get taxed in lower amounts or some other loop hole like they don't have to reveal the total amount they have. I have read about it a few times now, and that one state is in the news big time now for it. They are the Ireland or Isle of Man of the US it seems. If I recall correctly Amazon UK used the Isle of Man for some things, and they moved the Gift Certificates department out of our state to one other to avoid the high tax rates since the profit margins on gift certs is so incredibly high (they are a scam in many ways).

[COLGATE4]

170. Yep.I'm not saying that there are not tax dodges

and tax scams. There are by the thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) in more sizes, shapes and varieties than even I can imagine and I've seen some good ones. But an LLC is not even the Yugo of tax sheltering. It's more like a Vespa.

[Tanuki]

72. Speaking of pay to play, do you happen to know how much the Sanders campaign pays

its foreign policy adviser Jeff Sachs, the Pontifical Society insider who has previously organized their conferences and who has admitted "helping" with the recent invitation? Thanks in advance.

[uponit7771]

71. Podium Bird told them she gave Wall Street immnity from lawsuits

[uponit7771]

70. Well, did she give them immunity from lawsuits? no?!!?! Then who give a damn? tia

[Logical]

94. Then she should release the transcripts. Nt

[seabeyond]

95. No, she should not. One has nothing to do with another. Just the fact Sanders dictates a demand

would be an easy... no, for me.

[Logical]

96. She is not so stupid to realize they would destroy her. Smart move to hide them. Nt

[seabeyond]

97. None of your business. You do not get to read her diary either.

[Logical]

153. Lol, yes, a speech in front of 100s is like a diary. Fucking clueless? Nt

[seabeyond]

154. It is none of your business and you do not have the right to it any more than her diary

[Logical]

155. You are really entertaining, and a perfect hill fan. Nt

[seabeyond]

156. Whatever. I am tired of the petulant tantrums myself.

[uponit7771]

21. You mean like exceptions from certain lawsuits? tia

[beam me up scottie]

23. Hillary took millions for excepting bankers from lawsuits? Wow!!!

[seabeyond]

26. From employees in her state that happen to work for Wall Street? The horrors. Lol.

[uponit7771]

27. No but Sanders accepted the help from the NRA then later gave gun corps lawsuit exceptions...

... so, there it is then

[jmg257]

30. Yep - it was a good trade.

Though he did vote for the #$@^ assault weapon ban.

[uponit7771]

40. He did enough to claim he wasn't 100% in the bag for them

[jmg257]

56. Well there ya go! D- is pretty bad - could be worse I guess. nt

[uponit7771]

58. That's for one year not lifetime

[jmg257]

64. Yep lots of Fs, hopefully he'll improve.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/jan/20/bernie-s/bernie-sanders-nra-report-card-d-minus-most-recent/

1992 D
1994 F
1996 F
1998 F
2000 F
2002 F
2004 D+
2006 C-
2012 D-

[uponit7771]

80. He got a C once and a bunch of Ds... that's worse than I thought...

... Sanders vote

[jmg257]

83. Agree - Still not good enough. Not combined with the AWB stuff. Nt

[beam me up scottie]

54. He didn't accept any help.from the NRA, that's not true.

[jmg257]

59. Thanks for clarifying that up, BMUS. Cheers!

[beam me up scottie]

63. No problem, they've been telling that one for months.

[seabeyond]

31. 1991 help to be elected and voted with them, while the Dems let him win without a viable candidate,

and they too bought his vote. True that.

Hey... I am thinking a politician. You?

[beam me up scottie]

37. Proof of that? Tia!

[uponit7771]

42. Yeap, typical politician... just on different subjects

[beam me up scottie]

35. Proof of that? Tia!

[uponit7771]

43. There's no proof that Sanders isn't full of shit... I haven't seen any yet

[beam me up scottie]

46. So you admit it's not true?

[uponit7771]

49. That Sanders is full of shit? nah, he said "we'll see" on helping down ballot dems = full of shit

[Politicalboi]

20. I'll admit if this is true it is bad

But not bad enough to jump on the Titanic. I'm sure he will let us know one way or the other. He's an open book for the most part, so I'm not worried. At least he's not laundering money, selling arms, FBI investigations, going behind the back of the president, giving speeches for bribes, talking behind our backs, and taking part in racial jokes at political events.

I forgive him.

[uponit7771]

22. yeap, his base rhetoric is just that... he doesn't walk the walk ... no use in taking a chance on hi

[seabeyond]

28. Sanders is far from an open book and has not even begun to be vetted. And you are right,

We do not know. So mere speculation and besides a giggle, it doesn't do much for me.

Since he will truly be out of the race soon, we will probably never know.

[uponit7771]

13. Isn't that supposed to be the podium bird and not Binks? tia

[beam me up scottie]

16. So much hate and obsession over a poor little bird.

[uponit7771]

18. Nah, so much hate and obsession towards those who don't want to be Bern Victims (tm)

[beam me up scottie]

19. ZOMG BERNIE'S VICTIMIZING US NOW???

[uponit7771]

24. Well, we agree on something

[beam me up scottie]

32. We may never get over it!!!

[Travis_0004]

12. One one hand, I don't really care

Even if one thinks the tax code should be changed, and he should pay more, I don't think anybody is going to just skip deductions and pay more.

Sure he probably donated a bit to charity, wrote off his mortgage, and took other deductions. If he owes 13.4%, so be it.

[uponit7771]

14. We'll see, I give them a month... no tax return details then they're hiding shit

[Matt_in_STL]

52. Applies to transcripts too I would hope

[uponit7771]

55. Transcripts aren't reported by candidates Clinton shouldn't be the exception

[Matt_in_STL]

57. Then we'll just assume she is hiding something

Thanks.

[uponit7771]

65. Hopefully, they were private meetings... on the other hand the tax returns for candidates haven't...

... been over generations.

[Matt_in_STL]

67. I'm sure you can point me to the law requiring the release.

Thanks in advance.

[uponit7771]

68. strawman, no one said it was a law... same for transcripts

[timmymoff]

109. When you are running on the platform you are going to

reform Wall St. and repeal citizens united , those transcripts would be kind of handy considering there is roughly 600,000 in speeches given to a firm who has a 5 bn dollar problem. But hey, money doesn't affect her decisions and all you have to do is listen to the white noise machine now being used at other high dollar fundraisers. I totally trust her and take her for her many words on every subject.

[NWCorona]

29. I don't understand what the issue is?

He's on record as saying that his taxes are too low and wants to change that.

[jillan]

39. It's called Nit-Picking.

Bernie Sanders I see you!

[NWCorona]

69. Thats a good one!

[uponit7771]

62. rMoney too low for a 5%-er goes against his rhetoric, talks the talk lets see if he walks the walk

... or has been.

[Warren DeMontague]

33. Maybe he has an "atypical business model"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/04/27/independent-watch-groups-split-on-clinton-foundation/?tid=a_inl

[jmg257]

36. Naa almost 20%...

According to his tax forms, Sanders and his wife paid $27,653 in federal income tax and another $7,903 in Vermont income tax last year. The couple paid an effective tax rate of 19.6 percent on their federal taxable income of $140,994.

[uponit7771]

45. The 140 number is their AGI not total gross, good try though

[Loudestlib]

60. Ummm you don't look at the AGI

Deductions are there for a reason. Honestly, how much dirt do you expect to find on an income of 200k? This is stupid.

[uponit7771]

61. Yeah, they are... that's why people want to see the schedule A which they haven't relesed...

... by now

[Loudestlib]

73. What are you expecting to find?

They probably have home offices, lots of travel etc... We are talking about a few thousand dollars here. Again, this is stupid.

[uponit7771]

81. Him not walking the walk

[Loudestlib]

85. So,

you support a candidate that used her position as a political figure to make herself a multi-millionaire (Hill&Bill > $125 million) and you are worried that Bernie may have deducted one too many neckties?

Bernie Sanders is the poorest senator in congress. At anytime in his career he could have cashed that check and sold-out for stacks of paper. He never did, he kept working and fighting for the little guy.

[seabeyond]

89. Don't pay taxes, who is going to pay for all the freebie stuff he wants to put thru?

[Warren Stupidity]

100. so you are against public universal healthcare,

k-16 public education, expanding social security, and investment in public infrastructure, because Sanders taxes on his massive 200k income don't seem to be high enough?

[seabeyond]

102. Ya. Where we are today, I oppose universal, free college, ....

I am better with Clinton's plan. Also, I like Clintons plans better on...... "k-16 public education, expanding social security, and investment in public infrastructure," !!!

[Warren Stupidity]

123. Clinton has a plan: nope and no change.

By the way, when you respond twice to the same post, its a tell.

[seabeyond]

127. I think you are wrong.

[scscholar]

131. Better than a promise of both...

and getting neither.

[seabeyond]

103. Sanders wants me to pay more in taxes and healthcare, while he is at a 13/4%.... ?

I call that out.

[Human101948]

110. That's right,keep fighting against health care that would be cheaper and more effective...

You are the perfect "useful idiot," mouthing the arguments of the right wingers.

[seabeyond]

113. Pretty nasty post in personal attacks because I think you are wrong.

calling a person an idiot with "quotes" makes it fine?

[Human101948]

117. In political jargon, useful idiot is a term for people perceived as propagandists for a cause...

whose goals they are not fully aware of, and who are used cynically by the leaders of the cause.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot

[seabeyond]

119. You mean... nasty name calling to define the person, so you can feel like you got a "win"?

[basselope]

75. #dothemath...

Senate Salary: $156,441

Taxable Interest: $11

Ordinary Dividends: $2

Social Security: $39,281

Pension (Mayor): $4,982

Jane-Gov't Waste Comm: $4,900

Total Adjusted Gross Income: $205,617

Guess what happens when you add up 156,441+11+2+39281, 4982 and 4900? You get 205617 meaning that Gross income and his adjusted gross income were IDENTICAL.

Those numbers only differ when you have things like a schedule K, etc or capital gains, etc..

[jillan]

41. So that means you will be quiet about his tax returns now?

[uponit7771]

47. Only after confirmation

[JonLeibowitz]

44. Your source?

By the way, charitable donations reduce the taxes one pays..

[uponit7771]

53. Gross vs paid federal taxes, they have a lower AGI because of their unreported Schedule A

[IamMab]

48. The missing Schedule A would solve things if it could just find its way out of Jane's filing cabinet

[uponit7771]

51. I'll give them a month, after that they're hiding something no doubt

[basselope]

77. LOL.

What on earth do you think they could possibly be "hiding"?

The numbers are so incredibly straight forward.

Of all the made up controversies.. this one is one of the strangest, b/c for the life in me, I can't figure out what people are thinking they may find?

[basselope]

76. What would it "solve"?

Just curious?

The numbers add up directly. The big "question" is what makes up the 56K in deductions. I know my home mortgage deduction last year was 33K on its own... not sure what his is.

But remember, state taxes are also an itemized deduction as are property taxes.

So, I think VT has about a 10% tax rate, so 20K of his 56K in deductions is state tax. They said there was 8K in charitable donations, so that accounts for 28K The remaining 28K could EASILY be home mortgage and property taxes.

I'm curious.. what on earth does anything think they are going to find in the schedule A???

[jfern]

74. He only made $200k, so that's much less crazy than Mittens

[silvershadow]

78. Whatever he paid was legit. The Clintons being embroiled in the Cayman Islands, however, makes me

want them to be audited.

[uponit7771]

79. We'll see, I'll believe it when I see it... right now the explanations of why the SA hasn't been...

... released is not credible.

[silvershadow]

82. Well the Clintons are not credible on anything they say, and her campaign is in fee-fall. nt

[uponit7771]

84. Republicans hate Hillary Clinton

[silvershadow]

86. I wouldn't know why, she is after all, one of them. Third Way is on their way out of our party.

As we speak.

[redstateblues]

87. They hate Socialists more. They do hate Hillary but I've talked to Republicans

and they get very animated about the prospect of a Socialist in the White House

[hrmjustin]

88. That will hurt him if it is that low considering what he is proposing.

I doubt it will hurt with his followers but with undecideds you just don't know. I still think he might have investment in companies he doesn't want people to know about.

[Demsrule86]

99. Since I paid a higher rate...

I would feel the same way as I did about Romney...Does Bernie have offshore money is that the issue?

[bobbobbins01]

91. Should he try to overpay?

Because the IRS would just issue him a refund. I'm not sure what the problem here is. Oh wait, yes I do...the problem is you.

[hueymahl]

129. Thread winner

This OP is ridiculous. Nothing but a disingenuous hack job.

[Logical]

92. Lol, your concern is noted. Nt

[Surya Gayatri]

98. K & R. Thanks for posting.

[Lil Missy]

101. So THAT'S why he won't release his tax returns. n/t

[PotatoChip]

133. If he hasn't rleased his tax returns yet, how

does the OP know what percentage he pays? Honest question.

Is there some news on this that I missed?

[CentralCoaster]

104. This thread keeps popping up on my page, it won't die of it's own so I'll kill it.

Hide thread.

[Nanjeanne]

105. For those of you are simply dont understand difference between effective and marginal tax rate

Or those who would understand it -- if it wasn't Sanders they were talking about -- here is a simple explanation and example how effective tax rate can appear less than marginal or top tax bracket.

http://cawidgets.morningstar.ca/ArticleTemplate/ArticleGL.aspx?id=701059&culture=en-CA

[yourpaljoey]

128. weak sauce... have you another?

[COLGATE4]

158. You really need to get a new favorite saying.

The 'weak sauce' thing is not only getting old but it was never very good to begin with.

[yourpaljoey]

159. Please look into getting a better sauce... this is just sad

[2pooped2pop]

130. I dont know. Did the Clintons fail to disclose

a very large sum of money, as well as a few tax havens?

[Kalidurga]

132. Lemme get this straight you think Bernie should pay more than Mittens?

Wow that is twisted.

[whatthehey]

134. Don't see the problem

I just checked I have a slightly lower but same general level of income and paid 16%. And I don't have his travel or housing expenses.

[passiveporcupine]

135. I don't think that tax rate is unusual, but I don't know what it's based on

Because if it's based on net income (joint return, or single?) and only that, not all the other
taxes that are taken out of our checks, here are a few numbers for American's tax rates
from taxfoundation.org.

Note this is 2012 data.

Table 1. Summary of Federal Income Tax Data, 2012

top 1% paid 22.8% tax rate.......Income split point %434,682
top 1-5% paid 18.3% tax rate
top 5% paid 21.0% tax rate.............Income split point $175,817
top 5-10% paid 13.3% tax rate
top 50% paid 14.3% tax rate......Income split point $36,055
Bottom 50% paid 3.3% tax rate

I don't know what his income was in 2012. Can someone tell me what his tax form shows
for gross income and is it joint or separate filing? I suspect that in 2012 he may have
been in the 5% income bracket, or maybe just below it. But it looks to me like at his income level he is probably right about normal. Like I said, I don't know what numbers the OP is representing. I have not seen his tax return. Was it for 2015 or 2014?

[uponit7771]

136. Its prolly best he show the returns, no one knows ... he could be the nom and this would be...

... embarrassing during the GE if his message is counter to his actions.

[passiveporcupine]

140. Well, since the OP doesn't give any info on where that came from

I have no way of even knowing how to determine if it's accurate or not. I think it might be appropriate to post a link to the source.

And I have no way of knowing when or if Sanders will release any more info (I haven't even seen what he has released or where to find it), I can't respond to your point. I do hope he will, but right now he's just kinda busy. Don'tcha think?

[uponit7771]

146. 13.4 is the percentage of taxes paid from the total household income before scheduled adjustments

... its assuming the adjustments aren't valid at all cause we haven't seen them.

[passiveporcupine]

138. OK, some new numbers.

The Sanders household took in more than $205,000 in 2014, and paid the feds nearly $28,000 in taxes — an effective rate of about 20 percent based on Sanders' taxable income of $141,000. That means they likely earned more than 95 percent of Americans, according to the most recent data available from the U.S. Census Bureau.

http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/07/08/421151627/sanders-among-the-least-wealthy-presidential-candidates

[uponit7771]

141. Again, the 140 is based on AGI ... the AGI is derived from schedules they haven't disclosed...

... that's what is being sought after.

13.4 is based on 100% of HH income... not taking the non disclosed schedules at face value

[passiveporcupine]

143. Sorry, I'm not big on taxes

what is HH income?

[uponit7771]

145. Household, meaning the total amount earned before AGI... the schedules reduce the HH income to ...

... adjusted gross income (AGI).

OK, this is most likely a tempest in a tea pot like most of the primary shit is (I confess, I come here to laugh... even the vitrol snark is funny and I'm a little depressed these days) but ... but

there could be a there there seeing something so trivial should've been released already

JMHO

[passiveporcupine]

148. Thanks

This is from the NPR link I posted earlier.

The Sanders household took in more than $205,000 in 2014, and paid the feds nearly $28,000 in taxes — an effective rate of about 20 percent based on Sanders' taxable income of $141,000.

The biggest chunk of the Sanders' income last year came from the senator's $174,000-a-year congressional salary. (His occupation, as noted on his federal return: "Government Service.&quot Sanders' presidential campaign spokesman, Michael Briggs, explains the Sanders took in another $39,281 from Social Security benefits; $4,982 from the senator's Burlington mayoral pension; and $4,900 from Jane Sanders' governor-appointed spot on a low-level, radioactive waste commission.

One unanswered question raised by the returns is the breakdown of the Sanders' $56,377 in itemized federal deductions. The Sanders donated $8,350 to undisclosed charities, Briggs said. But the campaign declined to release any more information about the deductions.

Meanwhile, the Sanders household doled out $7,903 in Vermont state income taxes, and gave $150 to state programs benefiting children, the environment and veterans, according to their state tax return.

Is not the figure above (over $205K) the HH income (before AGI)?

[uponit7771]

149. Yes, the 205k is the total HH income before the schedule "adjustments" or AGI.

[passiveporcupine]

150. So I guess I'm confused with that 13% number

Are people here trying to say Bernie should be paying taxes on his gross income and not his AGI?

Why would anyone do that?

If I'm not mistaken, he has two homes; one in DC for when he's working there, and everyone knows it's not cheap to have a place in DC...and he travels a lot and still goes cheap on everything... never luxury accomodations, and no limos or anything, and he travels coach on planes, so it's not like he's trying to steal money by not paying taxes so he can live high on the hog like most politicians do when they make it big. I mean even Gore lives in luxury. Why would anyone think Bernie is cheating on his taxes.

Unless they just have to think that because they hate or fear him so much? (not referring to you)

Sometimes my head just spins with the hate I see on this forum.

[uponit7771]

151. No, its just not taking his schedule adjustments at face value

[passiveporcupine]

139. First off, where are you getting this number

and what exactly is it based on.

How can anyone answer this without a link to where it came from and more info?

[uponit7771]

142. base off of total income not taking the non disclosed schedules at face value which most likely

... there will be some standard deductions in the schedule even for car and home taxes but they haven't disclosed those amounts yet.

On this is no doubt better safe than sorry, they have to fully disclose either way IIRC if he wins the WH

[passiveporcupine]

144. Well, you are talking over my head now

Because I don't know anything about complicated taxes that require schedules and things.

[uponit7771]

147. Most of the schedules are actually progressive ones so, either way it looks like a win for Sanders

... just to wait until it becomes something everyone is going to stare at.

Cause he could've shoved a bunch of dough into retirement and gave another ton of it away...

Who knows

[Thinkingabout]

152. Is this a case of rich people not paying their fair share of taxes?

[alarimer]

163. Yet somehow being President results in a massive fortune

What is is the Clintons have? $111 million? How in the living hell is that even possible for two people who lived for 8 years on the taxpayer's dime?

Warren Buffett famously said his tax rate was lower than his secretary's.