I hate to be a gloom and doom pessimist, but I fear the worst may happen and...

[Binkie The Clown]

Hillary may become our candidate.

I know nobody wants to listen when someone preaches doom and destruction, but we have to be realistic and prepare for the disaster that would be a Clinton candidacy, or even worse, a Clinton presidency. Yes, I know, she would be better than Trump, but how much better? Marginally better on tone and demeanor, but how much better on policy, really?

[giftedgirl77]

1. Oh noes not HRC she will end America as we know it.

[COLGATE4]

59. DOOM! GLOOM! The end of the world as

we know it. READ YOUR BIBLES, DAILY and prepare for the Rapture. Maybe Hillary is actually the Antichrist??? The hyperbole of some of these posts is unbelievable.

[rock]

82. Oh noes indeed

I'm clutching my pearls and wringing my hands! I'm running around like one of my feet is nailed to the floor. (You do know this is ?)

[COLGATE4]

89. Don't faint. For all that you love, Don't faint.

[rock]

93. Don't worry

I've put my head between my knees. The only problem is I'm a catcher in the circus for a trapeze flyer.

[COLGATE4]

134. KInd of sucks to be the flyer... nt

[riderinthestorm]

114. Actually yes, accelerating climate change ensures that America as we know it will end

Madame President's lack of pro-active, forceful action dooms us.

[daleanime]

177. Don't sell her short....

how many more years can we exist with such a deep divide between government actions and public desires?

[KPN]

183. Too late for that, her husband already did.

[Cali_Democrat]

2. Congratulations.

You're approaching the final stage of grief.

Acceptance.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

4. And we were there to help him through every stage./nt

[azurnoir]

23. I have a question for you

IF Bernie supporters are as solidly young, white, and male as ya'll been sellin' us what exactly has that demographic got to lose by a Trump presidency? Seriously why should they support a candidate who has denigrated them for a year straight, they've been told so much about their white privilege, why would they not exercise it and vote for Trump?

note to the inevitable jury this is question not an endorsement of Trump I'm 60 and female I'll vote the Democratic candidate whoever it is

[DemocratSinceBirth]

29. Anybody with a glbtq friend, a Muslim friend, a Latino friend...

Anybody with a glbtq friend, a Muslim friend, a Latino friend, a black friend who votes for Trump needs to have his or head examined. They might as well write in Pat Buchanan, Michael Savage, or David Duke.

[azurnoir]

33. I see well we can hope so

[DemocratSinceBirth]

37. Hopefully. Trump is a bad guy. History shows us what happens when you demonize entire groups .

[lunamagica]

34. also a girlfriend, wife, mother, sister, daughter, niece...

[BlindTiresias]

105. Never worked historically

How many serial rapist mongol warriors had sisters and mothers? How many hardcore nazis had a mother?

[TheFarseer]

91. Trump's not getting the nomination

Then how will you scare everyone into doing what you want?

[CajunBlazer]

98. hmm... can you use your crystal bowl to pick the future winners at the track for me?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

102. Go patronize somebody else.

Trump's not getting the nomination
Then how will you scare everyone into doing what you want?

I am not trying to scare anybody. I would put an epithet after anybody but I don't want my post hidden so I will leave it to your fertile imagination to divine what that epithet is.



Love,
DSB


P.S. Donald Trump is more likely to get the nomination than his GOP opponents:

http://predictwise.com/


I know math is hard.

[TheFarseer]

132. Agree to disagree

GOP has a small army of people working 24/7 on how to screw Trump out of the nomination. If he falls short of the magic number, there's no way he gets it even if he has the most votes. It's possible he'll reach the magic number but he needs over 55% of the remaining delegates with the establishment screwing him the whole way. And don't mistake this as me pulling for Trump. I am absolutely not!

[RKP5637]

178. K&R !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! n/t

[DemocratSinceBirth]

180. Why, thank you.

You, BLM and a few others make me regret my lumping of all the supporters of one candidate into a big congealed pile and dismissing them.

[RKP5637]

184. This country could do far far far worse than HRC as president. I want a democrat in the WH 2016,

and if that is HRC, I'm OK with that, and I will definitely vote for her if the nominee, which will likely be the case IMO.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

186. Thank you again.

I should log off right now because I will never get another positive affirmation in a long while.

[JimDandy]

38. That's not a Sanders' supporter.

Sanders' supporters are supporting him all the way. Accept THAT!

[Kittycat]

47. Yep. And Trump won't get the nod from the GOP either.

The cake is already in the oven for Cruz.

[CajunBlazer]

99. I'm still pulling for Trump to ge the nomination

[MFM008]

79. they are a realist

Personally i support Thomas Jefferson and can write his name in on the ballot but the chances of him winning again are SLIM.
There comes a moment, as in 2008. Though I supported Clinton at first, Obama was the nominee.
After Tuesday one camp will have to face the truth.

[Codeine]

94. I'm still voting for Kucinich!

All the way, baby!!!!

[Lostnote]

135. Yea baby!!! Remember his posting of ftp files on his congressional website...stopped Deibold Cold!!!

[Jackie Wilson Said]

53. Reads to me like an endorsement for Drumpf.

[John Poet]

140. FUCK that.

Hillary is simply UNACCEPTABLE as the Democratic presidential nominee.

[Cali_Democrat]

141. Millions of Democrats disagree with you. nt

[John Poet]

157. and? Millions of Democrats are pretty fucked up ideologically,

since they can't seem to tell the difference between Democratic and Republican positions anymore...

A vote for Hillary is a vote for George W. Bush, plain and simple. If you support her foreign policy, not only is SHE a neoconservative, but YOU are.

[geek tragedy]

3. This is Democratic Underground, not "Not Hillary Underground" nt

[bvf]

12. Funny how those phrases bear a certain equivalency.

[KittyWampus]

58. In what respect, Charlie?

[LonePirate]

15. It's also not Independents Underground or Republicans Underground or Rand Paul Underground

[TDale313]

5. Not ready to throw in the towel yet.

The odds are stacked against Bernie, and have been from the start, but it is not over yet. Do I see Hillary as the frontrunner? Yes, of course, and I think nominating her would be a big mistake. But this is going to the convention, and if Bernie has the most pledged I like his chances.

[mooseprime]

6. i have yet to see much from her policy-wise that appeals to me

i can't get over how her time at state was used to enrich herself, her family, and that foundation of theirs. she voted yes on the use of cluster bombs in civilian areas; she greenlighted billions in otherwise prohibited arms sales to the middle east. the kindly grandmother feminist avatar she presents seems pretty distant from how she actually behaves.

[Politicalboi]

7. This ain't over yet

So much could happen to Hillary Coattails. Have faith. People of NY have 6 days to come to their senses, and many will. Besides, Hillary can't win the GE, so maybe it will be Jill Stein. She would be 100% better than Coattails.

[COLGATE4]

63. Jill Stein President?

Where can I get some of what you're smoking?

[IamMab]

95. Jill Stein couldn't get elected anywhere in MA. And you think she'll become President? WOW!

Just..... WOW!

[CajunBlazer]

103. Don't laugh...

After losing elections for the Massachusetts House of Representatives, Massachusetts state Senator, state governor, and US President, Jill did get elected to one of the 22 slots for Representative to the Town Meeting of her small home town of 34k.

She never been involved in state or federal government and never run anything bigger than her small medical practice (and doctors are traditionally terrible managers.)

If were by some miracle to win she were to actually wing, she would be in perpetual shock and scared to death. The only reason anyone feel comfortable voting for her is that they know she can't win.

[beaglelover]

8. You should delete this post. This is DEMOCRATIC undergroud, NOT Bernie Underground.

Disgusting post.

[arcane1]

60. Opinions are not welcome?

Good, you won't want to hear mine

[Yurovsky]

162. Hillary and her toadies want everyone to just sit down, STFU, & do as they're told...

Hill & Bill and their DLC pals have billions to squeeze out of the working class and poor. Get ready for more war, welfare "reform", mass incarceration, goodies for Wall Street, tax breaks for companies that play ball with the Clintons, etc...

In other words, not much different from a Trump presidency. Actually, I think Trump might start wars by accident, while Hillary would do so on purpose. Not sure which is worse.

Sure, Hillary will make fewer blatantly racist remarks than Trump (don't let her try to be funny in a racial context...), and she'll be able to say she's broken the glass ceiling. But I would feel a lot better if the first woman president wasn't the enabler for a serial sexual harasser and the lap dog for the very corporate bastards that are crushing millions of working class and poor Americans for fun & profit. Oh Elizabeth Warren, why didn't you run???

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

9. She is presenting a great challenge to the nose holding abilities and willingness to do so.

After many years of doing injury to my nose for crappy candidates, I'm going to give it a substantial break this time.

[LonePirate]

17. So you consider Obama to be a crappy candidate in 2008 and 2012?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

18. Yep.

[LonePirate]

21. Then why are you wasting your time here instead of on FR or some other fringe site?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

22. I'm not a Republican and frown on lunatics.

I'm an Independent and can think for myself.

Why are you supporting a Socialist? Is he a part of the "Fringe"?

[randome]

71. "I'm an Independent". Meaning you have commitment issues.

That kind of phrasing always sounds to me like someone trying to be fashionable. Sure, the Independents will save the world. Without a party or infrastructure or leadership just...because. You know, like Occupy Wall Street already saved the world.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

106. Is it "fashionable" to be in the majority?

Is being in a party "commitment" or "conformity" to a tribe? Has a party ever saved the world? If so, when? How will a party "save the world"? Has it happened before? Which party?

You sound like an ideologue.

"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever, in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else, where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all." Thomas Jefferson

[randome]

144. An ideologue. No, not even close. You don't need to belong to a party if you don't want to.

But then why do you work to denigrate a party that you seem to have some expectation of doing what you want? Being an Independent these days means you never have to lift a finger to do anything, just talk about how independent you are.

Start another party if you really want to change the world. Do something. Granted, I don't know you personally and maybe you are active in politics outside DU but for those who complain bitterly about the Democratic party but don't want to be part of it, I have nothing but a bewildered shrug about whether they really give a damn.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

[artislife]

108. Why choose between two crappy choices-it isn't like we have to belong to a party

I have been a Democrat my whole life, I have voted for them each and every time. Big whoop.

I am proud that I voted for Obama, twice.

I used to be proud I voted for Maria and Patty each time, too.

Eff the third way candidates. They pretend to be better but what have they really done?

[Jackie Wilson Said]

57. Great question. For me the answer must be one of two

a. they are a GOP plant here to spread disinformation and distrust of Hillary

or

b. they simply dont have the concern or knowledge to understand the depth of harm the GOP will do if elected

[artislife]

109. Maybe we should question how much good the Democrats

Like Hillary will actually do?

I don't think climate change will be addressed in any fashion that would actually save the planet.

I don't think income equality will be addressed in any fashion that would actually put money back into the 99%'s pockets.

I don't think we will have few people die in our wars..

What has voting Democratic done on these issues that has actually reversed them?


Nothing.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

110. Even if the only difference were SC appointments and the resulting

social issues, you would have to be crazy not to vote for the Democrat.

[artislife]

113. The SCOTUS is being handed its ass by the state right's this week

How many states have decided it is cool to discriminate against the LGBT community these last few days? And what can SCOTUS do about it?

Frankly, the whole government is on shaky ground. Congress doing jack, the President stymied and the judicial branch in limbo.

What we have here is one great clusterf*ck.

[Rob H.]

87. Because it's a public website

...and people are allowed to have their own opinions even when they're--*gasp*--different from yours?

[DisgustipatedinCA]

138. Because she isn't a binary fucking idiot. Got more questions?

[LonePirate]

147. She doesn't like the current Dem President and is unhappy with the likely next Dem President

Why spend time on a site dealing with things you don't like when the majority of other people at that site feel differently? Then again, maybe this user is a troll.

[Avalux]

10. How can anyone say she'd be better than Trump?

Hillary says a lot of stuff to get votes, often contradicting herself or outright lying. She is loyal to her billionaire and corporate friends, and likes to bomb foreign dictators. She will NOT be good for this country.

If Trump is worse (I don't think he'll be the nominee), Dems AND GOP will join together and impeach him, he won't finish his first term.

I can't vote for Hillary just because Trump MAY be worse.

[LonePirate]

19. If Trump is worse? How can anyone who posts here make such a ridiculous statement?

It is plain as day that Trump is significantly worse than Hillary. Anyone paying attention to this campaign season can attest to that.

[redstateblues]

27. Bernie promises a lot of things that he knows he can't deliver

Bernie is not ready for prime time

[Avalux]

45. My post was not about Bernie.

Care to convince me to vote for Hillary? Give me a compelling reason, I dare you.

[KittyWampus]

69. On women's rights alone she is better than Trump.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

49. Trump *might* not be worse.

Trump will be worse.

He'll be the biggest disaster I think this country has ever seen.

Get your head out of your ass.

[Avalux]

52. And he'll be booted out of office if he's a disaster.

You seem to forget the president is not all powerful.

I'm not going to let fear drive me to vote for a candidate I don't trust just to keep Trump out.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

54. I don't see Trump subscribing to the boundaries of the democratic process.

Checks and balances and such. He doesn't understand it and he doesn't want to understand it. He's NPD and everything to him is about him.

Yes, perhaps he'd be booted out of office. But I see it by the army or an angry mob of citizens, not some sort of Nixon-esqe waving from the helicopter farewell.

[Avalux]

55. Precisely why he'd be booted.

Take a deep breath, and don't let fear get to you.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

62. Except the damage that it would take to get him out of the office would be substantial.

And even if he's only in a year, he can do a hell of a lot of damage within that year.

The notion of a proto-fascist in the White House is nothing that we should ever be willing to swallow for the sake of political expediency.

[Avalux]

67. So what happens when Hillary decides to bomb Iran?

Then what? How much damage would that do?

She stated the other day that they're to blame for the creation of ISIS; wouldn't be much of a stretch to justify military action.

All of the neocons will stand behind her applauding when it happens. Shock and Awe #2.

See, I can be just as hysterical as you.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

70. What if the sun refused to shine? What if the clouds refused to rain?

What if the wind refused to blow?
What if the seas refused to wave?
What if the world refused to turn?
What if the stars would hesitate?

What if, what is isn't true?
What are you going to do?
What if, what is isn't you?


Funny how you're more concerned about the ramifications of a Hillary Clinton presidency than a Donald Trump one.

[Avalux]

75. Here's my point.

We could go back and forth on this all day, coming up with "what ifs" about what a Hillary or Donald presidency would be like. We really have no idea though, none.

When people pressure others to vote for Hillary if she makes it to the GE because it's the right thing to do OR ELSE....my brain can't go there.

I've lived long enough to know we can't predict the future, ever.

[KittyWampus]

66. Sanders lied on national tv TWICE last week desperately trying pander

for Catholic votes.

He attacks Clinton on the Crime Bill HE VOTED FOR

He won't release his taxes.

He can't keep his campaign fundraising within the law.

He can't answer basic questions to an editorial board about his own pet issues.

[fun n serious]

86. Verison lies and the list goes on...nt

[artislife]

111. When you compare them to Hillary's transgressions, they seem so small.

[sasmath]

68. Say...

Have you been drinking heavily the last six months or so? Or just not been paying attention?

Not better than Trump? Yikes.

You a troll?

[Beacool]

118. Then you're not a Democrat.

[Avalux]

122. Yes I am. n/t

[Codeine]

11. I'm moving to Canada and then hanging myself just to be sure.

I was planning on nuking everything from orbit - just to be sure, y'know - but I lost the launch keys behind the couch.

[giftedgirl77]

26. No, I saw your keys stuck to the burrito in your couch cushion.

[whatthehey]

13. Somebody needs to come up with a Dem primary corollary to Poe's Law

[VulgarPoet]

148. I've already got two corollaries for Godwin's Law, Poe's can't be too hard.

[Sky Masterson]

14. Exactly!

She inspires no one. Her likeable numbers are shit.
This place is going to be a bloodbath the night Hillary loses to a republican that isn't Cruz or Trump with all of the "We warned you", "We told you so", and "In other news: Water is Wet" that those with unclouded vision have been warning/informing you about all of these months. And those with the clouded vision will blame those who tried to stop it of "Sabotaging her" when she was NEVER a good choice. She is President Kerry. President Gore. President Mondale. President Dukakis.

[Kittycat]

51. the sad truth

She doesn't even inspire maddi to give her $1. Hopeless future.

[mythology]

92. And yet she's inspired more people to vote for her

Kind of awkward for your claim.

[Sky Masterson]

104. Yea, the south.

Thats gonna go blue in the General.
She has a ceiling. Those who like her, like her, but her numbers are shit.

[GulfCoast66]

161. Damn those black voters!

I hope my sarcasm and repulsion are apparent. The derision that a few Sanders supporters have for the preference of African American voters makes me think their natural home is not the Democratic Party. Free Republic has multiple post that share their sentiments.

[Sky Masterson]

168. Yeah. I'm a freaking racist

You figured me all the fuck out.
Really.....

[artislife]

112. ^^^This.

[dinkytron]

16. I'm going to become a stock broker.

[Binkie The Clown]

20. I'm going to hide out in a cave in the wilderness...

...find an assistant named "Igor" and draw up my plans for world domination with my thought ray machine built from 1950s TV sets salvaged from the land fill.

Either that or I'll learn to play the banjo and sit on the front porch pickin' and grinnin'.

[dinkytron]

24. There will be a trap door to awesomeness, Bink. Trust me. SHE is too dirty. Something will stick

to her eventually. There is a lot of time!!!

[ozone_man]

121. God I hope so!

Something has to stick. Who was it, Reagan, known as as the Teflon president? A second coming I think. Maybe there is time for a kick save.

[dinkytron]

133. Bernie tore up NYC. So many big moments. Picket lines, capacity crowds.Hillary performed in a racist

minstrel show.

Can't wait till he buried her her in the debate tomm. He will lean on her to RELEASE THE TRANSCRIPTS. It will not go away. She will lose her cookies. My gut feeling: there are racist jokes in the transcripts.

[basselope]

25. But you all know she will never be president.

So if the democrats choose to go that way... just wait until 2020 when we can field a REAL candidate.

[Beacool]

119. Sure, you saw it in your crystal ball.

[basselope]

130. It doesnt take a crystal ball to figure this out.

she would need MASSIVE turnout to overcome gop voter supression.

She motivates 0 turnout.

[floppyboo]

146. And if you can't hold your nose, don't stay home - VOTE DOWNTICKET for Bernie's REAL democracy 2020!

Bernie's going to win. And he's going to need a good congress. There's a battle and then there's the war!

[VulgarPoet]

150. That's the plan, though if any of 'em align with Third Way, they're getting skipped too.

I refuse to enable a murderer.

[HERVEPA]

28. I dislike Hillary. I like Bernie a lot. She would be a zillion times better than Trump.

[Tarc]

30. STAGE FIVE! THEY FINALLY HIT STAGE FIVE, FOLKS!

[Codeine]

123. That shit took FOREVER!

About damned time.

[TheFarseer]

127. So

It takes a 12 step program before your candidate is halfway palatable to democrats and that doesn't indicate a problem?

[SwampG8r]

142. Wait til.step.9

Of the hillary plan
Thats the one where you gouge out your eyes and run knitti g needles into your ears so you never see or hear anything bad about her even when its piled up like the rockie mountains

[Yurovsky]

163. Reminds me of Kevin Bacon at the end of "Animal House"...

"REMAIN CALM! ALL IS WELL!"

As the panicked crowd tramples him...

She decided she wanted to sell out to Wall Street so she could live like a rock star. Evidently, $600k/yr in LIFETIME FEDERAL PENSIONS plus millions in book deals just simply wasn't enough.

And the progressive wing of the Democratic Party is supposed to just hop on her bandwagon and act like behavior that runs contrary to EVERY FIBER OF OUR BEING is ok, because, well, she's like really experienced, and has waited her turn, and we just have to elect a woman even though all the progressive women sat this election out...

Sorry, but the corporate cash grab/soul sell-off is a deal breaker for me and millions of others. I've fought long and hard for what I believe in, and often suffered as a result. I'm not voting for someone owned by the very forces that are my mortal enemies.

I'll vote Democrat for every other office on my ballot in November, but if HRC is the Democratic nominee, I'll choose between actual progressives who are on my ballot (Green, Socialist, CUSA, etc.). This isn't on me - it's 100% on her. Nobody forced her to take all of that dirty money. No one is preventing her from giving it back. If she made an effort to atone for her corporatist behavior, I'd be willing to reconsider. The ball is in her court.

From my point of view, she's either one of us, or one of them. She's got work to do to convince me of the former.

[TheFarseer]

171. I live in Nebraska so I don't feel my vote counts anyway

I'll vote D on all the other elections but because Hillary isn't winning here anyway, I'm doing the same as you for president. I'm going to research all the third party and see who I'm closest to on the issues and vote for them even if it is a waste of time.

[hack89]

31. I thought clowns were happy. nt

[apnu]

32. So the "worst" is Hillary becoming our candidate?

Come on! I'm a Bernie supporter and I strongly disagree.

Hillary will be 100% better than any Republican.

Is she the most progressive candidate? No.

Is Hillary a solid liberal? Yes.

Is Hillary cozy with Big Business? Yes.

Will millennial issues be tackled day one? No.

If Bernie is President, will millennial issues be tackled day one? No.

If Bernie is President, will Wall Street be brought to heel day one? No.

If Bernie is President, will everything he says on the campaign trail happen on day one? No.

If Bernie or Hillary are President will we continue to see Republican obstruction like we have seen for the duration of Obama's Presidency? Yes.

Despite that, will America be a better place with Hillary or Bernie? Yes.

Will America be a better place with Trump or Cruz? Hell no.

Hillary's policies, even pro-business, will be very much better than Trump or Cruz, or whomever the Koch Brothers manage to shoe-horn on to the ticket. It won't be liberal lion roaring at the moneyed elites on Wall Street and the Banks, but Hillary will be much better than any other alternative that is not Bernie Sanders.

In politics, we don't get what we want most of the time. This is true of either side of the fence you happen to be on, and if you don't believe me, look at President Obama. He has gotten maybe 10% of what he wanted in the past seven years. Even if he didn't have a hostile and racist Congress to contend with, he wouldn't be much further that what he's done so far.

If you want real change, stop looking at the top, the President, and start looking down ticket to the Senate and House. Start looking at the Governors. Start looking at your state senator and rep. Those people are the ones who affect your life daily. Change them and it will flow up hill to the top. Change your local reps, lean on them to be progressive, and they will take that to Congress and take that to the President, whomever that will be.

That means, of course, showing up for every election in your district no matter how small. That means voting everything all the way down to the obscure judges at the bottom. That means finding out who those people are and how you're going to vote them before walking in to your polling place on that inconvenient Tuesday.

If you do those things already. Rock on, because you get it. If you don't do those things, start now. Better late than never.

[djean111]

35. I cannot get around the war, fracking, and TPP stuff. And she is willing to put abortion

limitations on the table, and wants to means-test social security. No thanks

[apnu]

41. That's fine. If you're against her positions.

I get the War vote, fracking and trade pacts. But the abortion thing rings false. Where is she putting abortion limits on the table? Her campaign statements are very clear on abortion.

Best I could find that wasn't pure right wing FUD was this:http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/09/29/hillary_clinton_i_could_compromise_on_abortion_if_it_included_exceptions_for_mothers_health.html

"HILLARY CLINTON: My husband vetoed a very restrictive legislation on late-term abortions and he vetoed it at an event in the White House where we invited a lot of women who had faced this very difficult decision, that ought to be made based on their own conscience, their family, their faith, in consultation with doctors. Those stories left a searing impression on me. Women who think their pregnancy is going well and then wake up and find some really terrible problem. Women whose life is threatened if they carry their child to term, and women who are told by doctors that the child they're carrying will not survive.

Again, I am where I have been, which is that if there's a way to structure some kind of constitutional restriction that take into account the life of the mother and her health, then I'm open to that. But I have yet to see the Republicans willing to actually do that, and that would be an area, where if they included health, you could see constitutional action."

This is her baiting Republicans into a bear trap that will screw them. Beyond that I've found many clear and loud statements from Hillary about abortion like this, she said on Google on January 6th 2016:

"Politicians have no business interfering with women's personal health decisions. I will oppose efforts to roll back women's access to reproductive health care, including Republican efforts to defund Planned Parenthood. As president, I'll stand up for Planned Parenthood and women’s access to critical health services, including safe, legal abortion."

Politics doesn't work when its about absolutes and hard lines. We already learned that lesson in the Civil War, and we learned it again in the Civil Rights fight.

I've already voted for Bernie in my state's primary, but I don't believe, for one second Hillary would ever seriously put abortion on the table. Not once. Hillary is no betrayer of women.

[djean111]

44. I cannot feel the same way you do. IMO, Hillary would betray anybody.

It is Third Way way. Also, I see things like war and fracking and cluster bombs., etc. - a betrayal of women.

I don't buy the "she is only baiting" thing at all.
We shall see, I am afraid.

[apnu]

46. "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself"

Relax, its going to be OK. We aren't going off a cliff today, and we aren't going off a cliff if Hillary Clinton is President. If we survived Bush we can survive Hillary.

Here, have a hug: I give it to you with respect and sincerity.

Be wary of right wing FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt, if you don't already know it). Hillary is a moderate liberal, yes. But she's not in the "club" like you think. They hate her, they've always hated her and they'll continue to hate her. Also they are terrified of her, they spent and still spend an endless amount of time and money to destroy Hillary Clinton. In the 90s they went after her specifically and they failed, spectacularly. People only put that kind of energy into a project when they're scared.

If they are that scared of Hillary, she can't be all that bad. I give her a "C" in grading personally. She's average. I'm anti-war, I'm anti-fracking, I'm anti-TPP, I'm staunchly pro-choice, I'm staunchly pro-GLBT, and I believe black lives matter.

I get where you're at, I've been there too. We are going to be fine, we are going to survive, and we are going to change the world for the better. It might be small steps, but they will be steps forward.

[djean111]

50. Nice words, but I am afraid of war, and poisoning the earth with fracking. And losing social

security. If your skin is not in those games, then yeah, be all brave and whatever.
I think we are at a standoff, so end of conversation.

[apnu]

72. Don't be afraid. Stand up and fight. We got this.

Fuel that fear to productivity. I'll stop having that conversation when I'm dead. While I draw breath, I will speak out, I will act out. Even if I'm the only one in the room talking about it. Never give up, never stop, never give in.

My skin is in all those games, and I'm scared too. I wouldn't be human if it wasn't scared. But work through it, with it, that's the only way we can survive.

[jwirr]

74. Some of us got knocked on our asses the last time a Clinton

was in office. It is not fear that is driving us. It is reality.

[apnu]

81. Yeah I know. I was there.

But there's a saying in martial arts and zen circles that applies here:

"Fall down nine times, get up ten."

Do your thing, campaign for the candidate you think is best. Just don't stop being active and involved. Don't stay home. Get up, get out, get everybody you know up and out the door to the polls.

[jwirr]

97. I am referring to the results of their welfare reform and

my disabled child. If my state had not stepped in an made me an exception to the rule I would have had to put my child in an institution.

And in other states that did happen. In NC a black mother was on Dan Rather's news while the state removed her child as she cried. We were told to get real jobs. Taking care of these children was a 24/7 job and I did it for 45 years but it was not a real job to the Clintons. Nor were the children we cared for considered at all.

I hope that NC mother was there to be one of the no votes for Hillary if she is still alive.

[potone]

166. That so-called welfare reform was a real betrayal.

I am sorry that you had such a rough time; you are a hero for your selfless care for your child. I thought our party was supposed to be there for people who are struggling, not kicking them when they are down. That law was one of the worst things that Clinton did as president.

[jwirr]

172. Our party was there until Clinton. If you take a look at how

the history of helping people in the south has evolved you can see that Hillary and Bill want all states to follow the southern pattern. It is how he was elected as a southern governor.

When I say this I am not condemning southern Democrats they did the best they could in ultra conservative states and Bill would never have won the governorship if he had not bowed to their ideals but I do not want my state to take care of its people like MS, AL, TX, etc. Nor do I want my country to continue in that direction. Trickle down lite does not work any better than trickle down.

[VulgarPoet]

151. You don't get up from a bullet if it's aimed right.

And that's directly where we're going if Clinton or any of the Republicans get the presidency.

[sasmath]

80. If I am to believe your post

Then Surely you will vote and cast a meaningful vote against Republicans in the fall.

[apnu]

84. YES! Yes I will.

I will be there in the fall. I will vote for Bernie or Hillary or whomever the Democratic nominee is. I will not lose one wink of sleep over it, even if that nominee isn't my first choice.

And when that person is President, and especially if they aren't my first choice, I will chirp at them and chirp at the party and chirp at my local and state reps, so they stay on the correct path. I will call them, write them, and I will show up on the little election days with pride and a smile. I can think of no more important act as an American than to vote. Even if my choices are poor, I have a say in that choice. It must be exercised, else it will be taken away from me.

[djean111]

85. You may not be aware of this, but many of us do not do the pledgey thing loyalty oath, here at DU.

Personally, I just put anyone who asks me directly on Full Ignore. So, bye, there, newbie!

[beaglelover]

88. So, don't vote for her then. Bye.

[redstateblues]

42. One of the best, most honest posts on DU in a long time.

You rock apnu! Until we all get our act together in the mid terms and on the state level a lot of the stuff is just hot air

[apnu]

43. Thank you!

[bigwillq]

36. Hillary will be the nominee. I suggest you move to Canada.

I dislike Ms. Clinton, but I support democracy. If that's who the country votes for, then so be it.
Work to change what you don't like about the system.

[alcibiades_mystery]

39. Good Gawd

[Else You Are Mad]

40. As a Bernie supporter...

I will gladly vote for Hillary and support her in every way to ensure she wins the GE. I may have differences in policies from Hillary, but who ever is the Democrat needs to win. Period.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

48. Umm....one has credentials as a Senator, Secretary of State and actively involved First Lady.

And the other is this:

Are you really, honestly, truthfully saying that Hillary Clinton is "marginally" better than an inexperienced in everything Cluster B lunatic?

Give me a break. You're delusional to the max.

[silvershadow]

56. Have you tried channeling your energy into volunteering for Bernie? nt

[Sunlei]

61. Binkie The Clown, you haven't seen doom & destruction until Republicans take away healthcare, minim

Republicans take away, healthcare, minimum wage, air/water regulations, Unions, birth control and imprison in 'for profit' detention center or deport 12 million people.

just to add a few more 'fears' to your miserytrain

[restorefreedom]

64. not going there..primary season ends june 7 and then we have the convention

when certain scenarios develop, i plan to look at my options and make the best choice i can.

and to answer your question, i would say marginally better at best on a few issues. on trade and economic policy, much worse than trump. on women's choice maybe, on foreign policy, frankly they both scare the crap out of me.

[Marrah_G]

65. Sorry that is not even close to the worst that could happen

Stop trying to tear our party apart.

[Lil Missy]

73. Welcome to the REAL WORLD!!

[Bill USA]

76. Thank you RNC...LOL!!

[Tommy_Carcetti]

77. It's funny how the hysteria here at GD:P seems to be a one-way street.

I voted Clinton in my primary, namely because I believe she was the best of the choices of candidates. Of two people.

It was never intended as a slam against Senator Sanders who, while I have some doubts about his appeal to the general electorate and his ability to get his agenda passed if he manages to be elected, is a decent and genuine individual.

I would vote for Sanders if he faced Donald Trump.

I would vote for Sanders if he faced Ted Cruz.

I would vote for Sanders if he faced whatever Republican establishment milquetoast they choose to broker, whether it be Kasich or Ryan or whomever.

And you know what? I would vote for him without going all drama about having to hold my nose or claim that it's just suuuuuuuuccccchhhh an impossible choice and how you haaaaaaaaaaaattttteeeeeee yourself for having to vote for suuuuuuuuuuuccccchhhh a horrrrrribbbbbbbbllllleeee candidate.

Not everyone's favorite candidate becomes the nominee (Mine dropped out several months ago). That's a fact. Deal with it.

And grow the fuck up.

[JoePhilly]

83. + 1

[Gothmog]

78. Clinton only has a 91% chance of being the nominee

Sanders still has a 9% chance http://predictwise.com/politics/2016-president-democratic-nomination

[BreakfastClub]

90. lol, she is no different than Obama policy wise. Did he destroy the country? nt

[liberal_at_heart]

101. She is a little more aggressive than Obama on military intervention.

And that is dangerous. Not to mention if we're spending money on military intervention we can't spend money on domestic policy. I was listening to the radio this morning about kids and teachers at a local school district out walking the sidewalks with signs trying to get local voters support for a levy to build a couple more schools because so many kids are cramped into temporary buildings. How shameful that we live in a country where children have to beg for voters to pay a little extra in taxes so they can have a school building.

[mythology]

96. You seem confused

You say Clinton becoming president is worse than her being a candidate. But then you admit Trump would be worse. I don't think you've thought your argument through very well.

[Waiting For Everyman]

100. You're forgetting a little thing called the FBI.

Even if she got nominated and elected before the FBI has its say, she'd get impeached once it does.

Her gigantic scandal isn't going away. I would advise those planning on voting for her to pick a VP very carefully.

And no, I don't think she's going to get nominated anyway.

[artislife]

107. She won't win the GE

So there is no doom and gloom on that front.

[Beacool]

120. Only on "Sanders Underground" would a supposed Democrat make that comment.

[shadowandblossom]

126. I'm thinking more like on Republican Underground.

to be honest.

[artislife]

129. I fracking care about this planet and so do the millennials who will be living on it

when the sh*t hits the fan.

Only callous people don't give a frack.

[Califonz]

143. Agree! Hillary supporters

are in complete denial about how disliked she is nationally.

[bigtree]

116. first, we need to prepare for the disaster

...that comes with the bursting of the fanatic Bernie bubbles.

[Beacool]

117. What's "gloom and doom" to some, it's great news to others.

Hillary would be a "disaster"? Yes, because Sanders was going to deliver on his promises by waving his "political revolution" wand and Congress would hop to it and pass his agenda.

[Warren DeMontague]

124. Ive assumed from the get-go that she would be the nominee.

And in that case I strenuously hope she can win the GE, which she should be able to do given the clusterfuck that is the GOP right now... But of course she could snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, not just by running the exceedingly lame campaign she has been, but by letting surrogates like DWS continue to alienate millennials and demand longer prison sentences for medical marijuana users, that sort of thing...

But recalling a pertinent Chuck Yeager quote, she may win anyway despite her shitty advisors, etc.

In which case we can probably expect more of the same, with a few changes. Better than the alternative, absolutely.

Expect an executive branch more committed to doing away with things like strong encryption, bringing back the clipper chip.. Maybe even demonstrating "bipartisanship" by trying to resurrect those 90s "communications decency" laws, or outlawing flag burning.

...probably as much of a ramping up of the drug war as they can reasonably get away with, which isnt all that much given reality.

...a slightly more "muscular" foreign policy.

I think the people who will be upset/disappointed will be the people who have hailed HRC as the candidate of the "subaltern" or whatever. In reality, a Hillary presidency wont change a whole lot, except maybe bring things like a more strongly pro-likud Israel foreign policy approach.

But Somehow I dont think that is what those people had in mind.

[VulgarPoet]

153. I'd might as well do the job for her and cap myself if she gets the presidency.

Beats dying in a foreign nation because she can't help but fucking meddle in sovereign states, because there must be total military control worldwide

[shadowandblossom]

125. Oh for pity's sake

I didn't realize I was on a right wing site. I thought this was democratic underground.

[realmirage]

128. what about the supreme court?

This is the Dems first chance in a billion years to control the supreme court. Do not forget that!

[Rosa Luxemburg]

131. If she is then we are going to get Trump

[WheelWalker]

136. Binkie you clown... you're such a tease, lol.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

137. Slight correction: Hillary will NEVER, EVER be my candidate.

[Chan790]

145. I fear the worst may happen, Hillary may become our candidate...

and we may end up with President Cruz as a result.

Do your part for American democracy...just say no to Clintonism!!

[brooklynite]

149. I get it! She's not a REAL Democrat, right?

The oldies never go out of style...

[Adrahil]

152. LOL.....

Yeah, take a look at their proposed tax policies and tell me they aren't different.

For fuck's sake....

[lagomorph777]

154. Worse, if she's our candidate and the GOP manages to out-maneuver Trump,

...we would end up with President Cruz. Holy crap that would suck.

[Califonz]

155. The Democratic Convention is one week after the Republican one

So at least the convention speeches can denounce whatever freaks they nominate. Also, Democrats can decide if they really want Hillary or Bernie running against that Repug ticket.

[shadowandblossom]

156. Hi there undercover Republican.

[Binkie The Clown]

158. Right; because Bernie is so much more "Republican" than Hillary.

[font size=5]NOT![/font]

[shadowandblossom]

159. Bernie's no Repug. Pretty sure you are though. Hi there undercover Republican.

[Binkie The Clown]

160. No, I won't dispute such ridiculous trolling.

But if it makes you happy to say that, then go ahead and say it. I don't know you, you don't know me, and frankly I don't give a rat's ass what you believe about me.

[lovemydog]

164. On policy, I think a Hillary presidency would look very similar to a Bernie

presidency. Which is very similar to an Obama presidency. And radically different from a republican presidency.

For that to be much different, we need a much more progressive Congress. Unfortunately, the last midterm elections dramatically decreased the possibility that we'll get a much more progressive Congress with the general election in November.

[WhenTheLeveeBreaks]

165. I hate to be a gloom and doom pessimist, but I fear the worst may happen and...

Hillary may become our candidate.

I hate to be a gloom and doom pessimist, but I fear the worst may happen and...
Bernie may become our candidate.

I hate to be a gloom and doom pessimist, but I fear the worst may happen and...
Trump may become our candidate.

I hate to be a gloom and doom pessimist, but I fear the worst may happen and...
Cruz may become our candidate.

There is a lot of this going around everywhere you look.

[ThePhilosopher04]

167. It's pick your poison between Hillary, Trump or any other Republican. I'm not choosing poison.

[muriel_volestrangler]

169. Realistically: she'd be way better than Trump (or Cruz, Kasich) on policy and tone; so would Bernie

There is a larger gulf between the qualities of the major candidates of the 2 parties than I think there's ever been. Trump and Cruz are worse than even Dubya or Reagan (Kasich probably ranks with those 2).

Trump has the biggest ego of any major candidate ever, and his life revolves around satisfying that ego. While he can make proper decisions if the fancy takes him, and he can appoint competent advisers and underlings, he frequently doesn't, because everything is seen through the prism of what makes him feel good about himself. He has no concept of diplomacy, and would be unable to work with a Congress of any form, or with any foreign governments (even Putin).

Cruz is a fundamentalist fanatic, who would appoint a cabinet of fundamentalists and do his best to bring back the days of the Salem witch trials. That he has got so many Republicans in Congress to hate him indicates he cannot do diplomacy either.

With either of these as president, the USA would see its international treatment look like North Carolina's disaster with the idiotic bathroom law - everyone boycotting it where possible, trying to withdraw investment, looking elsewhere for allies, generally giving up on it as a lost cause.

Threads like these are 'virtue signalling'. A Bernie supporter wants to say to others "look, I love Bernie so much that I'll say Hillary is almost as bad as Trump". It bears no relation to reality, and, if taken seriously, would indicate they are clueless about politics and the nature of Trump, but helps identify them as a True Believer in Bernie.

[BernieforPres2016]

173. Muriel, you're a Hillary supporter who can't even make a case for her

other than to disparage Bernie supporters who detest her because she is a corrupt neocon.

Typical Hillary supporter, anybody with actual principles is to be dismissed as a "True Believer".

You go into the Ignore box with the rest of them.

[brooklynite]

175. Isn't it nice when you can surround yourself only with voices that agree with you?

[muriel_volestrangler]

187. No, I'm neutral. I'm British, so I don't vote in the general election, let alone a primary

I'm not a Hillary supporter at all; though I expect she will win the primary, just because she already has a lead, and I expect her to hold on to it with new York and California. You can look for my posts about Hillary and Bernie; sometimes I criticise them, sometimes I praise them, but I'll always say both would be OK as president, are far better than anything from the Republicans. If you want what I've recently said about Bernie, there's me saying what's the problem with what he said in Rome, when a die-hard Hillary supporter suggest she put it on her website: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141415733#post9 (and to another one, in post 24 in that thread).

I'm disparaging the OP not for coming from a Bernie supporter, but because it has an unrealistic view of Hillary, and the Republican candidates. You call her a 'corrupt neocon', and this is unrealistic too. She's a mainstream Democrat. She's not an egomaniac like Trump, or religious fundamentalist like Cruz. A realistic criticism might be "she won't be as good as Obama, and she's a move in the wrong direction".

[w4rma]

170. If Clinton becomes the nominee, and I don't think that she will, she'll triangulate neoconservative.

And when she does, Democratic Underground will still be supporting progressive *issues*, and Hillary will still be on the wrong side of the issues.

[LadyHawkAZ]

174. Think about this: what were their confident predictions for this Vatican invite?

"He wasn't even invited!"
"He won't be able to get a flight there in time!"
"He can't afford a charter!"
"He can't leave New York right before the big primary!"
"He's not on the list of speakers, he won't even be speaking!"
"The Pope will be out of town, he'll never get a meeting with the Pope!"

The same people who said all that are the ones insisting Hillary will be the next President.
I wouldn't stress on it too much at this point.

[Buzz Clik]

176. Oh noes!

[cantbeserious]

179. IMHO - A Vote For HRC In The Primary Is A Vote For Trump In The General - Trump Can Easily Win

eom

[artyteacher]

181. silly... hrc will kick his butt soundly... eom

[cantbeserious]

182. Wishful Thinking At Best

eom

[actslikeacarrot]

185. As others have already said you need to grow the fuck up.

And realize that overseas adventures are where it's at! Have you tried viewing them as a business opportunity?