The idea that southern "red" states could decide the Democratic presidential candidate is outrageous

[imagine2015]

The Story about Democratic Convention Pledged Delegates that Nobody Talks About
Clinton's only ahead of Sanders thanks to 6 Deep South states irrelevant in November
by: Dave Lindorff
April 12, 2016


Many critics -- including people who aren't even Sanders' supporters -- have denounced the devious and biased way major media outlets, including the New York Times, the Washington Post and most of the major television networks, have followed the Clinton campaign's lead in including so-called Superdelegates in the totals (Clinton has over 400 of these unelected delegates, whose positions are allocated to the various states and other primary jurisdictions, and who are mostly elected officials, party officials and lobbyists supportive of the Democratic Party leadership, and Sanders has just 38). This distorted count has been used for months now to insist, falsely, that Clinton "has a lock" on the nomination. But this has always been deceptive counting, because those delegates, while claimed by Clinton and to a far lesser lesser extent Sanders, are not pledged at all but are free to change their minds.

It may be that the strategy of front-loading states in the deep south (South Carolina, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Texas and Mississippi) will work to deny Sanders a majority of pledged delegates going into the Democratic Convention in Philadelphia this July, but that overlooks the reality that his popularity among Democratic and independent voters has surged dramatically over the intervening months, while Clinton’s has plummeted.

Certainly the Superdelegates, if they The Democrats want to win the election this November, and to have a shot at winning back at least the Senate, need to consider that reality. Imagine if California, with its 475 pledged delegate total, were to go for Sanders on June 7, scarcely a month before the Convention, and then Clinton were to win the nomination? It would spell disaster! What if Sanders were to win the pledged delegates, but Superdelegate votes were to hand her the nomination. Even worse disaster!

Remember that the states that have handed Hillary Clinton her continuing if shrinking pledged delegate lead are all Red states that have no chance of voting Democratic this year, or of contributing a single electoral vote to the Electoral College tally at the end of the day. The idea that those states’ primaries could determine the Democratic Party’s presidential candidate is simply outrageous, and also suicidal.

At the least this should be a part of the discussion in any reporting on the Democratic race for the nomination. So far it’s a topic that is deemed not fit for public discourse in the national corporate media

http://thiscantbehappening.net/sites/default/files/images/Clinton:Sanders.jpg

Read the full article at:
http://thiscantbehappening.net/node/3124?page=2

[Agschmid]

1. Like Mass and Ohio.

[imagine2015]

5. You didn't read even a tiny part of the article and yet you choose to comment on it?

Do you also write movie reviews for films you haven't seen?

[Agschmid]

7. I didn't read it. You're right.

Why would I waste my time on an article that says people who voted... Don't matter.

[imagine2015]

14. You just dug yourself into a deeper hole!

"Why would I waste my time on an article that says people who voted... Don't matter."

1. You just "wasted your time" by commenting on an article you haven't read.

2. If you had read the article you would know it did not say that people who vote don't matter.

But don't let that stop you from bashing Bernie and his supporters. Do you think that will help to win votes for Hillary if she captures the nomination for Wall Street?

[Agschmid]

19. I didn't bash Bernie, never have.

But hey whatever fits your narrative.

[Hortensis]

61. Imagine, I'm a Georgia Democrat and

MY VOTE COUNTS JUST AS MUCH AS ANYONE ELSE'S DOES AND MY RIGHT TO CHOOSE IS JUST AS REAL.

Hillary's not far enough left for me but is extremely competent and knows what she's doing, Bernie's farther left than me and a closet extremist who's lying about what he can achieve, so I voted for her. If you don't like democracy, go eat worms.

[Agschmid]

90. Your vote does count, this whole discount the south thing is very odd.

[redstateblues]

106. Hard to believe BSS are still flogging this dead horse

It's hard for BSS to deal with the fact there are a lot more people voting for HRC than there are for Bernie.

[Agschmid]

107. OP got locked out due to a hide it looks like.

[Matt_R]

129. Sure looks like the OP was alert stalked. n/t

[Fuddnik]

108. You're right. Why should I waste my time on people with closed minds.

You are ignored!

Actually, should have been done a long time ago.

[Agschmid]

109. Thanks for letting me know.

[Zira]

131. He admitted he works for the Clinton Campaign on this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511739743

This explains a lot of his behavior.

[workinclasszero]

57. Yeah

LOL

[Agschmid]

2. And Illinois, that deep Red southern state.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

3. Those voters, especially the black ones, are irrelevant? Hmmmm....

[imagine2015]

9. After you have read the article you might wish to comment on it.

You clearly haven't from your comment.

But, I also have to ask you.

Do you also write movie reviews about films you haven't seen?

[Jackie Wilson Said]

12. Right there, black and white, so to speak

The Story about Democratic Convention Pledged Delegates that Nobody Talks About
Clinton's only ahead of Sanders thanks to 6 Deep South states irrelevant in November
by: Dave Lindorff
April 12, 2016

Southern, in this case, is code for black voters.

Actually the phrase was "deep south" even more unmistakable.

[imagine2015]

20. So now you're claiming the Bernie and the writer are racists!! And you want to be taken serously?

Unfortunately Black voters along with white voters were unable to win the southern "red" states even for Barrack Obama in the 2008 and 2012 election.

Do you really believe Hillary, the former Senator from Wall Street, will attack more Black voters than Obama in the "red" states thereby winning them in the general election.

If not, do you think Hillary will pretty much write off the south and other deep "red" states in the general election if she captures the election for Wall Street in November?

[Jackie Wilson Said]

22. Keep digging, I am not going to help you.

[1StrongBlackMan]

47. Is this ...

So now you're claiming the Bernie and the writer are racists!!

Team Bernie's trademarked response?

[Jackie Wilson Said]

49. Seems so...Elsewhere on this board I am seeing people supporting the idea,

nay hope, that more of us will learn how bad Hillary is and wont support her in November.

I will be honest, it worries me that this many so called liberals are so ill prepared to understand what they are doing.

[TM99]

38. Yes, indeed, because

there are no other minority voters except for blacks. So fuck all the Asians, the Latino's, etc. And it amazes me that there are only blacks living in the southern states Clinton won. I must have missed that mass migration.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

39. Waste of time, you know damn well what is meant with the term "deep south"...

[TM99]

43. Bullshit!

Stop playing your race baiting games with me.

I actually am a bi-racial man from the south.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

59. That is why I said you know damn well, I know that about you, I have a memory of you.

[1StrongBlackMan]

65. Ahhh ...

Stop playing your race baiting games with me.

Another got to response. I wish I had bought a Democratic Primaries-2016 Bingo Card (DU:progressive Edition)

[Agschmid]

91. I'd be willing to bet you would have called a few Bingo's by now.

[TM99]

75. But it isn't a dog whistle.

At no point in the 40 years since Nixon Southern strategy through the South to the Republican's have the Democratic Party counted on any southern state to swing blue for the general.

The packing of southern states this early in this year primary was a callous use of race by the Clinton Machine and DWS to make her look strong. The turnout in those states was still abysmal.

This is not a damned race division game. If you are truly a supporter of Sanders, you get this. But so often you push the Clinton meme that it is all about race. That makes me and many others question your motives here.

[redstateblues]

105. don't we all

[northernsouthern]

82. I know what you mean...

That is the sad thing, you are making a racist and prejudice statement, Arkansas has a larger black population along the SE angle of the state only. Where I lived there were little to no black or minorities. The larger black population is set along the old plantation /farming areas of the state, delta, and its capital. The NW section of the state was less to no plantations. They are more along the line of hill billies (the ground is more hilly and and less fertile than the delta. I went to the only school with a black student body (no black teachers anywhere). In the other schools there was one or two black students total. So you claiming that it is some how targeting the black population shows that you have a very prejudice view. Are you saying everyone I know in the south is black? Not sure how our Texas relatives would feel about that.


http://jointcenter.org/sites/default/files/Joint%20Center%202014%20Black%20Turnout%2010-29-14_0.pdf

You can see above that even at full turn out that is around 8% of registered voters. So to claim that we are talking about ignoring the black voter is ignoring 82% of the other voters.

Also far worse is the trends in the south, people are no longer voting, because honestly why bother in an area that you are gerrymandeered or out numbered.




http://usuncut.com/politics/this-is-the-biggest-super-tuesday-story-no-one-is-talking-about/

[workinclasszero]

58. Oh yes...especially all those democratic AA voters

down south.

Hmmmmm..................................

[Odin2005]

89. We get it, Hillary supporters think only black votes matter.

We working class white people are just evil racists who have to be bashed and demonized and every turn.

[Number23]

95. What in the sweet, primrose colored hell?

Hillary supporters think only black votes matter. We working class white people are just evil racists who have to be bashed and demonized and every turn.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

117. Why are deep south votes irrelevant to you?

[Odin2005]

118. I never said they were irrelevant.

I'm sick of people implying that they are all that matter, as if the Democratic Party is just the "POC and Upper-Middle Class Latte Liberal Party".

[Jackie Wilson Said]

119. All that matter? Oh boy. Nobody remotely said that, but your comment

sounds like some folks here


http://whitenessproject.org/millennials

[Demsrule86]

125. Well doesn't this article basically say

Black votes don't count? We count all Democrats even if they live in red states. Georgia came close to going bluer last time.

[Agschmid]

4. And Virginia.

[LexVegas]

6. ....

[seabeyond]

8. Omg... Are we really splitting the nation of Democrats who is more legitimate than others? Hey...

do we let white male open caucus, Republican, Libertarian and baggers decide for us?

I cannot believe someone is seriously writing about this.

[imagine2015]

11. You haven't read the article. Do you also write movie reviews about films you haven't seen?

[seabeyond]

69. You are right, I red the headline. I was at work. Sometimes a HEADLINE stops a person in their

tracks. The headline is atrocious all in itself. I didn't read.... HENCE..... the question. !!!! Do you consistently jump to conclusions, asked and answered?

[firebrand80]

10. Right, the solid-blue mountain west should nt

[DanTex]

13. Fortunately, Idaho, Utah, and Alaska don't have enough delegates to put Bernie

over the top.

[IamMab]

46. Bernie ran a bad campaign, end of story.

He thought that "wins" would be enough. Clinton learned that mistake 8 years ago and adapted.

Bernie 2024?

[1StrongBlackMan]

64. He has convinced his supporters that "wins" will be enough ...

and, certain wins, at that ... But I think Team Bernie HQ, knows better.

[IamMab]

66. Well, it behooves the campaign to push back on these narratives, not support them, otherwise

the supporters are just out there giving Bernie a bad name, when even I as a Clinton support doubt very much that this is a sentiment that Bernie Sanders himself shares. But if the campaign abets this kind of stuff, maybe I'm wrong.

[StevieM]

102. I'm thinking we should unite behind Elizabeth Warren in 2024.

She is someone that Clinton and Sanders supporters can both get behind.

I am impressed that you managed to put up 209 posts in just 5 days. Welcome to DU!!

[DrDan]

15. how dare they assume they have equal status with other states - disgraceful

[imagine2015]

24. New flash! The states are not equal in presidential elections. Do you know why?

Vermont doesn't have as many electoral votes as California. They are not equal.

Do you think that is unfair?

I guess you never heard of the electoral college or are confused by it.

I personally don't like it. I'd prefer a national popular vote.

[DrDan]

25. ridiculous - and you know it

[IamMab]

48. Your argument becomes even worse if you look at who won

presidential election battleground states: Clinton!

[Agnosticsherbet]

16. The idea that Democrats who live in the South should have no say

Or vote is breathtakingly Republican in its conception.
Just exclude Democrats on a basis of where they live is say people who live in a red state can not be liberal, progressive or trusted to vote in the way some people approve?

That would be voter suppression on a massive scale.

[NuclearDem]

23. I think we've stepped into some kind of time warp.

Democrats haven't been trying to suppress southern African American votes since George Wallace.

[Agnosticsherbet]

31. This campaign has made a disturbing turn

To the ugly.

[Agnosticsherbet]

35. It us in the posted article. Read it.

The name is on the article.

[Meteor Man]

36. Read much?

Where on earth did you come up with voter suppression? Oh wait! This is a Hillary micro-aggression faux pax. Now I get it.

[Agnosticsherbet]

41. The outrage that southern Democrats chose Clinton is not unique

To this article.
It has appeared in GDP numerous times

Red States did not give Clinton the lead. Democrats did that.

[Meteor Man]

85. Off topic

The article complained about frontloading the dem primary with states that will almost certainly vote for the republican candidate in the GE.

There was no suggestion that their votes should not be counted, only that Hillary's early lead was inflated by primary votes in states that will be irrelevant to the GE result.

[Agnosticsherbet]

88. It attacks democratic voters in Southern states

As some how not good enough.

The writer appears to be ignorant of the fact that a primary is not a general election.

In the general election all voters get to choose from th candidates.

Red, blue, and GE are irrelevant to the subset of voters that vote in pimaries.

In a primary, Democrats choose our candidate. Just because there are not of them to win a state does not make them lesser beings.

[Meteor Man]

116. Wrong!

The article does not "attack" anyone or accuse anyone of being "lesser beings".

[frylock]

62. Just exclude Democrats on a basis of where they live.

Welcome to California. The 8th largest economy on the planet and the single most diverse state in the nation. But why on earth should we have any say as to who we have to vote for in November?

[1StrongBlackMan]

68. ...

The idea that Democrats who live in the South should have no say; while arguing, Non-Democrats (i.e., Independents) should is breathtakingly self-serving(?)/narcissistic(?) in its conception.

[BillZBubb]

17. Front loading the southern primaries was a goal of the DLC, for obvious reasons.

They give the conservative Democrats a big early boost. It backfired a bit in 2008, when the apparently more liberal Obama won there. But overall, it has worked for the right side of the party.

I would much prefer there be no regional primaries. We need to spread the primaries out so that each block contains representation from all states, but with at least one big blue state involved in each block.

And how in the world could California be one of the last states to hold a Democratic primary? That makes no sense at all.

[Meteor Man]

40. Bingo!

Because . . . Steny Hoyer worked so well with The Bohner and accomplished prudent incremental reforms to achieve Democratic goals. /s/

[StevieM]

100. States choose their own primary dates.

Nobody forced California to go late, they chose to. And in 2008 they voted on Super Tuesday.

Hillary's enormous margins in the south didn't come from DLC types, it came from African American voters.

[NuclearDem]

18. This is the 473rd time this "south doesn't count" nonsense has been brought up

and it's the 473rd time that it's just been petulant sour grapes.

[Agschmid]

21. Yup.

[imagine2015]

29. Why do you think the southern "red" states are the key to a Democratic presidential win in 2016?

Ya think Hillary will even visit the south should she capture the nomination for Wall Street?

[NuclearDem]

33. There are Democratic parties in the South, too.

Downballot races matter. North Carolina was a solid red state as well, until Obama won it in 2008.

[Demsrule86]

126. Sure

VA, NC, LA and if she is smart Georgia...Virginia did not vote Demo for years and years and then one day they did...and have done so for two election cycles... The fact is you can't decide who counts more...sorry...I know you want Sanders to win but he won't...I doubt he will win California in fact or New York.

[brooklynite]

26. The idea that western "red" states could decide the Democratic presidential candidate is outrageous

Nebraska, Wyoming, Idaho, Alaska, Oklahoma...

[Number23]

96. Western "red" states where all of the voters combined don't equal one of these Southern "red" states

these people want to discount so desperately.

[JoePhilly]

28. Hillary's winning the PURPLE states too!!!

But apparently, the Bernie team is done with the 50 state strategy.

[imagine2015]

30. Bernie's campaigning in all 50 states. Hillary hasn't. She wouldn't even visit Utah!

[mythology]

60. Really? Because his campaign has claimed they didn't

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/bernie-sanders-campaign-offers-awkward-take-state-the-race

Granted they were lying, but their version is that they didn't try in the south.

But the article is a piece of garbage devoid of any intellectual honesty. The author cuts out states that benefit Clinton for being Republican states but leaves Republican states that Sanders won. Because apparently Idaho counts but not Mississippi. So either the author is making a racist argument or just a dishonest argument. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on his motives, but that still leaves his argument as utterly worthless.

[imagine2015]

32. The Conservative Democratic "Southern Primary" Strategy

From the same article:

"But the big issue not discussed at all is that all of Clinton’s margin of pledged delegates were picked up by her in a string of early primaries in the deep South states, just as planned by the neo-liberal DNC leadership in the years following the near success of insurgent peace candidate Eugene McCarthy in 1968 and the successful nomination of insurgent anti-war candidate Sen. George McGovern four years later in 1972. McGovern’s successful march through the primaries terrified establishment Democrats, and so, by the 1990s, Super Tuesday in the South had been established, followed by several other southern states including Texas, with the idea being that the more conservative southern Democrats would not support any radical candidates outside of the mainstream, and that by killing such candidacies off early, they would end up starved of funding and would see their campaigns wither away.

The strategy worked marvelously for Clinton. Remember, in late February and early March Sanders was largely unknown outside of New England. The Democratic party is marginalized in the by now uniformly Republican-run Deep South, and black voters are disproportionately its backers — people who understandably view it as critical to keep Republicans from also controlling the federal government. And even among those few black voters who knew of Sanders and of his strong history of Civil Rights Movement activism and of his consistent support for minority issues and for the nation’s poor as a member of Congress, he was deemed a long shot to win in any general election. Clinton was thus the overwhelming victor in those primaries. In fact, just between Feb. 27 (South Carolina) and March 8 (Mississippi), she picked up 378 more delegates than Sanders, largely because of the fiction promoted by her campaign and touted in the corporate media that she would be “more electable” than Sanders in the general election.

[Csainvestor]

34. Hillary won MA and IL by 1 point

She barely won both states.

Those weren't landslide victories.

If she didn't win the south with landslides, Bernie would be leading.

[Kittycat]

42. In IL, they shut down voting.

No one will talk about it! It pisses me off. Several areas without ballots, didn't have ballots when voting ended, or polls were closed. One area the judge decided to stop the mess so they could resume the following Monday. Lisa Madigan got involved, and stopped it. A quick visit to her Twitter page and scroll to 3/15, will show you where her alliegence was. My county actually turned people away or closed the polls outright, despite an extended hour ruling. We were all Bernie counties.

[MisterP]

77. MA was Bill's infamous intervention, IL of course has Rahm, and AZ was GOP fraud

that just happened to favor the candidate who plays footsie with the GOP and who Dems won't put in 5 hours of effort for

[StevieM]

99. The areas that were most affected in Arizona were areas that heavily favored Hillary.

Rahm did nothing to affect the vote in Illinois, except maybe to cost Hillary some votes by association. And Bill's supposed intervention in Massachusetts involved going to one polling place.

Nobody cheated Bernie in these states. He just lost.

[questionseverything]

128. you are correct...illinois primary was a mess that seemed to benefit hc

wheaton refused to register college kids

champaign ran out of democratic ballots...that happened in several counties

and hc still only "won" by about 36,000 votes

people across the country do not seem to realize illinois has a repub gov and senator.....illinois could go red in the general especially if hc is the nominee

scary stuff

[whatthehey]

37. I read it. I prefer Sanders. It's still patronizing and divisive bullshit

The claim that blacks are both too stupid and too dependent to inform themselves appropriately on an important, voluntary, decision made once every 4-8 years is not new however dressed up. Neither is the claim that Dems in red states have too much say in choosing the nominee. They remain patronizing and divisive claims, and woefully foolish to boot. All Dems should have a say in who speaks for all Dems. Anything else is hypocritical and really suicidal politically because you disenfranchise and disincentivize party allegiance, support, cohesion and even votes from the elected officials who representthe blue bits within the red states. Sanders announced 10-11 months before the first primaries in the south. He quickly raised enough money, from me in a tiny part, to mount an effective campaign. The claim that blacks didn't have time to "get to know" him is a blatantly dismissive bit of bigotry that says they lacked the wit and the ability to become informed in those many months. It's also, paradoxically, a claim that Sanders is stupid. He knows the primary calendar, he knows how to analyze polls and allocate money to campaign where it would do most good. Spending millions to wrest a few more % from the SC AA vote would have been foolish. I do not agree with their choice, but I will not be so smug and insulting to claim that those AA SC voters did not have enough info to make that choice. They had the same amount of time and ability that NH whites had (slightly more time). Why would you expect him to spend time chasing an already strongly committed vote in demographics where he is less well supported?


The "front loading" of some states does not change the delegate math in the end, which certainly tilts Clinton's way but could conceivably still change. Her lead is not insurmountable but it is formidable, and the challenge to beat the ground game, the organization, and the inside advantages she has has been formidable since the campaign started. The media dis not create those advantages, and would be appallingly incompetent if they ignored them. It's true I think they could give Sanders more notice and more credit, but I'm not imagining some vast conspiracy, just seeing the writing on the wall and that the circus on the GOP side naturally sucked up the media attention.

[Meteor Man]

52. VRWC

"the media would be appallingly incompetent if"

The entire M$M is a vast conspiracy of appalling incompetence in covering politics.

Where did anyone say blacks were "too stupid and too dependent to inform themselves"?

Your take on the article is patronizing and dismissive billshit.

[whatthehey]

81. The article did

What else would describe a group of people who are committed enough democrats to vote in the primary and facing virulent lunacy from any potential Republican nominee but neglected given ten months notice to spend a few minutes researching just three possible choices? That's what saying they did not know him enough ineluctably means. My attitude to the article is as kind as it deserves. Probably more so.

[Meteor Man]

86. Hardly

You are casting racist stones at an illusion created in your own mind, not contained in the article.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

44. Wow.

I'm speechless.

And not in a good way.

[oldandhappy]

45. Curious as to how the 'red' states feel. Would they do it again??

[ContinentalOp]

50. In case you haven't noticed, the entire system is set up this way.

Why are the people of Wyoming and Vermont represented by something like 3 or 4 times the number of electoral votes and representatives in congress per capita than the people of California or New York? If you want to fix the system, end the electoral college, end the senate, and make the house truly proportional to population. Of course then CA and NY would decide everything, which is fine by me but I'm sure a lot of supposed progressives in tiny places like Vermont would have a fit.

[Skink]

51. Hillary's southern strategy for the primaries would have worked

If there were 10 entertaining candidates splitting the vote and barely picking up delegates.

[salinsky]

53. The idea that you could win the Democratic nomination ...

... without some serious coalition building with minority communities is ludicrous and political malpractice.

[LonePirate]

54. Are we a party for all 50 states or just the reliably blue ones?

[Godhumor]

55. Pretty sure she is winning the Purple State Primary by every metric

Would say that if we negate red states, we negate blue states too. And Clinton is winning the only states that matter...the swing states.

[workinclasszero]

56. "6 Deep South states"....code words for AA democratic voters

Why don't the Sanders people pushing this horseshit line come out and say it?

Quit dancing around the real complaint you all have with black democrats!

Its plain to see that lots of Sanderites would love to disenfranchise all southern AA people, the very bedrock of the democratic party!

[BillZBubb]

71. Bullshit. It's conservative Democratic voters. That's the way they roll.

And no one wants to disenfranchise anyone--that's a total lie.

That region just should not be first in selecting the Democratic nominee. We already have a conservative party. We shouldn't be making ours the same.

[ncliberal]

80. Exactly.

This region is more conservative and more religious. People ignoring that fact are either being intentionally obtuse or disingenuous.

[StevieM]

103. Hillary's huge margins in the south aren't coming from conservative Dems.

They are coming from African American voters.

[NCTraveler]

63. Sanders got it handed to him in Florida and Ohio.

You are telling me that swing states are less important than blue states that are going to go for Clinton in the GE?

But no, my point was about the south you say. That's because in order for the point to be made important factors must be ignored.

The manner in which these articles are written is clear. Come up with a narrative and then cherry pick whatever possible in hopes it will look relevant to the original narrative.

The highlighted section is actually completely false.

[BillZBubb]

72. And that's OK.

It isn't being ignored. Those are important states and should be in the early primary schedule. As should California and Michigan and New York.

There is a reason Clinton and her bots boasted after getting creamed in New Hampshire that Sanders would be done after Super Tuesday--and YOU KNOW IT. That region (the deep red South) was not going to vote for Sanders.

[NCTraveler]

74. You're right, Floridians like myself didn't go for Sanders.

Wasn't even close.

[pkdu]

110. Well put!.....and......

Crickets.

[JI7]

67. Black people in the south vote democratic. they aren't the ones responsible for republicans winning

[Bill USA]

70. maybe you'd be happier if the black voters in those states only got 3/5ths of a vote in primaries...

It was that voting block that gave the delegates of the Southern states you're talking about mostly to Clinton. The Republicans were voting for Bernie..LOL!

[Zynx]

73. Why should we pay attention to KS, OK, NE, UT, WY, ID, and AK by the same standard?

We've actually at least won some of the southern states in recent years. We haven't won any of those states.

[MisterP]

76. especially from the very same faction that abandoned it to the GOP and followed that party

ever-rightwards: even the 50 State Strategy was too radical left for these asshairs: Ann Richards' 1994 loss was seen as proof positive that DLCism and Clintonism were the way to go

[iandhr]

78. I have heard this meme trotted out a million times.

Bernie won the following red states

Alaska

Idaho

Oklahoma

Wyoming

Utah

Kansas

Nebraska

None of these states will go blue in November.

[workinclasszero]

93. And what is the difference between the states you listed

and the "deep south states" that Bernie fans abhor so much???

Could it possibly be....

Naw couldn't be...could it????

[iandhr]

94. Of course not.

Bernie supporters are pure saints it's impossible for them to have any prejudice bones.

[Number23]

98. And BINGO was his name-o!

And when you factor in that, these white Western states are lucky to have the populations in total of just the capital cities in these "Southern" (cough cough) states, it makes all of this bullshit even more blatant and revolting.

Somehow, a rural, INCREDIBLY homogeneous state with a population in total of 1 million people (if lucky) should somehow have MORE clout than diverse states that actually reflect the Democratic base and have 2-3 times the populations according to these people. It is absolutely shameful the depths these people will go to prop up that man's ailing, flailing campaign.

[workinclasszero]

115. It is shameful

You expect republicans to pull this shit but not people claiming to be democrats!

[Codeine]

79. Democratic voters matter, even down South. Get that through your heads.

We're not going to disenfranchise lifelong, dedicated, mostly-black voters in the South just because they didn't vote for Bernie.

[northernsouthern]

84. You are missing the point.

This is about how the narrative created by this election played out so that the southern vote had a disproportional effect on the direction. People were trying to end it soon after the south voted and long before most of us had voted.

The this article is going more that no one knew who Sanders was, so Hillary cashed in on the Super delegates and her brand name...that is the point of this.

The strategy worked marvelously in prior years and this year for Clinton. Remember, in late February and early March Sanders was largely unknown outside of New England. The Democratic party is marginalized in the by now uniformly Republican-run Deep South, and black voters are disproportionately its backers -- people who understandably view it as critical to their survival to keep Republicans from also controlling the federal government. And even among those few black voters who knew of Sanders and of his strong history of Civil Rights Movement activism and of his consistent support for minority issues and for the nation's poor as a member of Congress, he was deemed at primary time to be a long shot to win in any general election. Clinton was thus the overwhelming victor in those early primaries, particularly among black voters. In fact, just between Feb. 27 (South Carolina) and March 8 (Mississippi), she picked up 378 more delegates than Sanders, largely because of the fiction promoted by her campaign and touted in the corporate media that she would be "more electable" than Sanders in the general election.

[LonePirate]

113. If Bernie loses to Hillary, one of the main reasons will be his lack of campaigning in the South

The primary schedule was not a state secret. He declared his candidacy early enough in 2015 to spend time introducing himself to voters across the country. Yet, he largely ignored the South apart from a few visits to SC and a small number of other visits. He directed more effort to winning the delegate poor states in the Midwest than making himself competitive in the delegate rich states in the South. Yes, overcoming the Hillary machine in the South would have been a daunting task for anyone; but Bernie didn't even try. I voted for Bernie and this to me is by far his biggest failure of the campaign.

[northernsouthern]

114. I am on the fence on this one

He started out down in funds, was attacked out of the gate with the media blackout, he did visit the south...

Just never got much press. I think the BLM aggressive maneuver in Seattle allowed the HRC and even certain antisemetic people to run a narrative against him (I stumbled on the videos by the person by accident). This combined with the media repeating the narrative did so much harm that the amount he would gain in areas that have a much lower voter turn out was not worth the risk. He won one county I know of in Arkansas, and it is up north, so perhaps a stop in Little Rock could have reached enough people or one in Fayetteville to help a little...but that super Tuesday was too many all at once. If they stretched out the states more instead of a large group it would allow each state more visits, more time, and allow the candidates with less funds more access. I think they saw that no matter what they were doing with Mike, Nina, and Cornell it was not paying off, and then there was BS in NC which sounds like the person in charge of the state was actively sabotaging him. He hit Florida hard, but even with masses showing up something did not help him, the red baiting may have been part of it. I admit that I wonder if he had been there more it may have helped, but his wins in other areas may have not occurred. I have said before the south is a hard win for people that are not middle of the road democrats, they are far more conservative there, far more timid to vote their minds (my parents did not vote for him for the same reason they did not vote for Obama, they were afraid that no one would vote for a liberal jewish or black man).

[adigal]

83. I've been saying this all along - she only wins in states we are going to lose in November

The swing states are Bernie states. Why are we being so stupid?????

[Codeine]

87. She's won several swing states.

More than Sanders, actually. You're entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts.

[Agschmid]

92. I'd double check those swim state results if I were you.

[Demsrule86]

127. She wins Florida and Ohio

Must win states...Bernie would win neither in my opinion.

[StevieM]

97. This is the exact same conversation that took place in 2008 with Clinton and Obama.

Obama's margin came from deep red states, in the south and elsewhere.

The argument didn't hold much water to Hillary-haters at the time. They were just fine with her losing that way.

As it stands now, Hillary has won Illinois, Ohio, Florida, Massachusetts and Arizona. She is favored to win New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania and California.

She has done better in Democratic states and big swing states than Obama did eight years ago.

And, of course, Sanders had impressive wins in Wisconsin and Michigan. Congratulations to him for that. I hope he uses his support as a way of building up the party, whether he is the nominee or not.

[RandySF]

101. Yes. God forbid we treat the South like part of the country.

Let's bring back Reconstruction while we are at it. Really, what do you propose? Shall we exclude Southern delegates from the convention?

[ecstatic]

104. Like Trump, Bernie should have read the rules before running.

Guess what? We had the same process in 2008, 2012, and now 2016. There's nothing worse than a sore, whiny loser.

[SFnomad]

111. Maybe you think the South should just get 3/5 of a vote? n/t

[Fawke Em]

112. I think so, too, and I'm a Southern Democrat. eom

[Tarc]

120. Any particular reason that the Sanders Camp doesn't care about the African-American vote?

I realize that in some people's limited imaginations, the "Deep South" is nothing but white evangelicals holding tent revivals while pushing their crazy,m fundamentalist whackjobbery onto the masses, but that isn't the sort of voter that carried those states for Clinton.

[polichick]

121. That's how "democracy" in America works...

At least that's how the current parties work. Might need a people's party.

[TNProfessor]

122. Nashville

I live in Nashville and we are doing our progressive best down here. Sorry that those living in Salt Lake and Boise matter more.

[Sheepshank]

123. Most ridiculous premis yet

The article implies that there is never ever a chance that any state will ever change political party majority and therefore why ever bother to let them vote in any primary that is not part of the majority. Bunk

IMHO if someone lives in a state where they are not part of the political majority, having a say in the Primary and thus the choice of who may become POTUS, is even a more clear reason to count their opinions.

Piss poor reason to invalidate those red states.

[Demsrule86]

124. Then we should discount most of Bernie's wins

He won many red states...including Wyoming and Utah.

[Recursion]

130. Red states are penalized in the delegate count already

e.g., Mississippi and Iowa have the same number of electoral votes, but Iowa has 44 delegates and Mississippi has 36.

So Clinton's immense lead from those lopsided victories is after they've had delegates deducted for voting red last time.