2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumTrump supporters crossing over and voting for Sanders.This is why we like closed primaries.
Things got weird in West Virginia Tuesday night.
Bernie Sanders won the state’s primary over Hillary Clinton, and while the delegates he collects will do nothing to knock the front-runner off her glide path to the Democratic nomination, it will give the insurgent candidate a much-needed shot of adrenaline during what could be a good month for him.
That part was expected. The rest was not.
MSNBC LIVE, 5/10/16, 4:39 PM ET
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/trump-voters-boost-sanders-west-virginia
West Virginia, like other Southern and Appalachian states, is at the tail end of a long transition away from Democratic Party, which once ruled the South, to the GOP, the natural ideological home of its conservative voters.
Democratic voters still technically outnumber Republicans nearly two-to-one in the Mountain State, even though it hasn’t voted for a Democratic presidential candidate in 20 years, and isn’t likely to again for the foreseeable future.
Just over half – 51 percent – of West Virginia voters are registered Democrats, while just 29 percent are registered Republicans, according to data released by the secretary of state’s office. Another 17.6 percent of voters are independents.
Many of those Democrats, however, behave like Republicans, which helps explain why Donald Trump voters played a key role in putting Sanders over the top Tuesday.
A third of those who voted in West Virginia’s Democratic primary say they plan to back Trump in November, according to NBC News exit polls. Sanders won those voters by a wide margin.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)to hurt Hillary. Democratic primaries should be closed. This is just represents one of many examples why.
Arkansas Granny
(31,896 posts)I don't know how anyone can believe that allowing Republicans to choose the Democratic candidate is a good thing.
jane123
(34 posts)and independents..it resounds with republicans as well. Personally, I don't have a crystal, perhaps you do, but from what I can tell middle class republicans in West Virginia have many of the same problems as democrats and independents in West Virginia..as a Bernie supporter I am glad that all Americans can vote the way they want and that all voters will be heard not just the ones that are chosen.....and as far as the "as long as Bernie is winning line"...perhaps you are just upset that your candidate lost badly...for whatever the reason....as far as the voting rules in West Virginia go, you'll have to take it up with the Secretary of State there....which is the advice we Bernie voters have been given time and time again by Hillary voters when "funny stuff" happened in states Hillary won since the beginning of this primary.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Arkansas Granny
(31,896 posts)How does that make you feel? That is why I favor closed primaries. Vote for whoever you wish in the GE, that's your right, but let Democrats decide who the Democratic candidate will be.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)Demsrule86
(71,036 posts)said they were voting for Trump over Sanders...not Clinton but Sanders.Thus it seems like they are kind of useless for us.
Human101948
(3,457 posts)She can't attract voters from outside of her devoted followers. Part of the DNC's strategy to shrink the Democratic Party.
Lost the House.
Lost the Senate.
Lost 900 seats in legislative bodies across the county.
Next...the White House!
Pretty soon it will be small enough to drown in a bathtub.
Response to Human101948 (Reply #4)
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TheCowsCameHome
(40,224 posts)Human101948
(3,457 posts)And loses in others.
Bernie does much better.
Response to Human101948 (Reply #10)
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Demsrule86
(71,036 posts)who plan to vote for Trump over Sanders in the General are valuable to us ...so you are saying they 'reflect' Bernie's values? Some values. I am with her.
Vinca
(51,385 posts)unless they think they're creating mayhem by keeping the Democratic primary going which is equally stupid. Hillary is free to go into general election mode at any time.
inchhigh
(384 posts)If 39% of Sanders voters (and 9% of Hillary's) really support Trump but only 18% are independents, that means some of those "Trump" supporters must actually BE democrats.
By closed, do you mean the primary should be limited to members of your own party WHO ALSO SUPPORT YOUR CANDIDATE?
That's a pretty small tent.
Many of those Democrats, however, behave like Republicans, which helps explain why Donald Trump voters played a key role in putting Sanders over the top Tuesday.
A third of those who voted in West Virginia’s Democratic primary say they plan to back Trump in November, according to NBC News exit polls. Sanders won those voters by a wide margin.
global1
(25,997 posts)are fed up with establishment politics. That is why both Trump and Bernie have such followings.
Yes - some Dems will vote for Trump in the GE rather than Hillary because he doesn't represent the establishment. Yes - Independents will vote for Bernie because they can't stomach Trump and know Bernie is running an anti-establishment campaign.
So don't underestimate the power of the Independents - that are growing in numbers because they are fed up with both of the establishment Party's.
Instead figure out a way to harness the power of the Independents and pull them to our side.
dsc
(52,744 posts)who voted for every Democrat from Roosevelt to Obama was a Republican. They live in an overwhelmingly one party area and if they want any say in their local affairs they need to vote in a Democratic primary just like my grandmother had to vote in a GOP one to have any say in her local affairs.
inchhigh
(384 posts)we should limit the voters in our primaries to "real" democrats? Whats the test?
dsc
(52,744 posts)for the officials to catch up with the people. As more of the Kim Davis of this world change party so will the voters of those areas.
Demsrule86
(71,036 posts)to those who are members...otherwise, you have mischief by mostly Republicans.
inchhigh
(384 posts)to these actual democrats, like war, trade, and gay rights, Trump is simply to the left of your candidate.
berni_mccoy
(23,018 posts)Response to berni_mccoy (Reply #7)
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berni_mccoy
(23,018 posts)Response to berni_mccoy (Reply #15)
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berni_mccoy
(23,018 posts)Response to berni_mccoy (Reply #17)
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berni_mccoy
(23,018 posts)are unrelated. OP is factless bullshit.
disillusioned73
(2,872 posts)since no-name is ghost..
Demsrule86
(71,036 posts)Independents can vote in the WVA primary.
Demsrule86
(71,036 posts)And many Dems are really GOP...as they used to vote for Dems and still have their party affiliation ...last time WVA went for the Dems was 96, Also, you can change your party affiliation 21 days before a primary online...don't even have to go out. This is a state made for operation chaos.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)That means that unaffiliated voters can vote in whichever primary they want.
berni_mccoy
(23,018 posts)That these peoples voices don't matter when they've suffered economically for the failed trade policies of this country. Hillary offers them nothing but more of the same.
Demsrule86
(71,036 posts)Last edited Wed May 11, 2016, 07:48 AM - Edit history (1)
They never had much else. Byrd brought home the bacon for them but not the righties have stopped allowing that so states like WVA suffer.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Just seems strange that such a sizable chunk of those who voted for Bernie said they would vote for Trump in the general, even if Bernie was the Democratic nominee.
That suggests that some Trump supporters decided to vote in the Democratic primary just to mess with us (a la Rush Limbaugh's Operation Chaos).
Demsrule86
(71,036 posts)Independents can vote for whoever they want. The GOP and Dem people vote for their party. But West Virginia has many registered as Dems who have not voted Dem since 96. They hate Obama...the racist vote. Voters who said they voted for Sanders said they planned to vote for Trump over Sanders... operation chaos. This is why closed primaries are best. Thus, Sander's victory besides being meaningless in terms of math indicates what would happen in the fall...many Bernie supporters in other states are really Trump supporters that would not vote for him. I suspected as much after the right-wing judge was elected in Wisconsin.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)The biggest plus is that independents who would vote in the general election get a say.
The biggest negative is this - that people from the other party can alter the outcome, and they particularly will if their vote doesn't matter in their own party's primary anymore.
Neither system is perfect.
Demsrule86
(71,036 posts)people who belong to the party to choose their candidate. Independents choose to be so..they can join a party...way to much risk of GOP shenanigans.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)A closed primary is limiting political freedom, and is right wing authoritarian.
With 50% of voters now registered as independents because they feel their party no longer represents them, you would think party leaders would welcome them in the primary. So much for being inspired by a democratic candidate you can't vote for.
Seeing how independents will have a say in the general election, and will be voting for the nominee that the party nominates, it makes sense that they should have a say in who that nominee that they are voting for is. A closed primary is limiting political freedom and shrinking our democratic party.
The primaries end at different times for the parties...what if the Hillary and Bernie were closer? They could conceivably pick our nominee by operation chaos which was obviously in play here...why else would Bernie supporters plan to vote for Trump and not Bernie in the fall.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)candidate that inspires them, got it!
peace13
(11,076 posts)If you want Trump to win in the GE you would vote for Hill. She is proven to be weaker in defending against Trump. Yea if they did vote for Bernie. At least he will give Trump a fight!
B Calm
(28,762 posts)basic right to vote. Primaries are paid by tax payers and tax payers (regardless of which party they are registered to) should have the right to vote for the candidate that inspires them.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)Oviously they see Sanders as the weaker candidate. -which he is.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)A commercial transport (any aircraft, for that matter) on final approach is at the second most dangerous point in a flight, after take off. All those flaps and leading edge slats hanging out, gear hangin' in the wind, all producing gobs of drag. Plus lower power settings with less and less time to spool up...in case....
She will never make the runway.....
blackspade
(10,056 posts)pengu
(462 posts)bemildred
(90,061 posts)B Calm
(28,762 posts)she would have dropped out after NY.
Tarc
(10,581 posts)crossed over to prop up Sanders, the weaker candidate.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)Who's going to prevent them?
ieoeja
(9,748 posts)In the general election they will be voting for local Democrats at many different levels like the State House. But half of them always vote for a Republican President.
texstad79
(115 posts)but I don't think they share any of the party's core values. Over 40 percent of them voted for a felon over President Obama in the 2012 primaries.