Simple question for Hillary supporters ...

[Vote2016]

Why do you pretend that Democrats in red states like Texas or blue states like California will affect SCOTUS nominations, LGBTQ equality, immigration reform, and other progressive causes by voting for or against a neoliberal-neocon third-way candidate at the top of the ticket?

We both know this argument is total bullshit in the 45 + states (over 90% of contests) that will not be battleground states in November.

The path to unity is not via threats or hollow fear mongering arguments, but in fixing the broken party rules and ineffective leadership, adopting a progressive platform, including a progressive on the ticket, and finding a central role for the Sanders-Warren wing of the party at the convention and beyond.

A true leader could accomplish this easily - this simple task will require 1/10th the compromise and good will that governing with a Republican House will require. A leader who cannot cooperate with allies will probably fail in November before we get a chance to see how poorly she fares working with a hostile House of Representatives.

[w4rma]

1. Their priority isn't to beat Trump, otherwise they'd support - & stop smearing - a better candidate.

Their priority is to marginalize progressives into submission.

[Hoyt]

2. First off, all that "neoliberal-neocon third-way" crud is BS. Second, if that is the path to unity,

it's too late for 2016. Personally, I'd like to see both Sanders and Warren have a big roll. But, I also believe Clinton will be as "progressive" as LBJ -- think of his accomplishments with Civil Rights and Medicare. "Progressive" is an overused term. Heck, there are people right here on DU who call themselves "progressive" because they want gunz in more places.

[Vote2016]

6. Are you denying Hillary has a neoliberal economic agenda, denying she has a neocon foreign policy

agenda, or denying she is a third-way Democrat? All three propositions are correct.

Hillary will not attempt, much less accomplish, 1/10th of the Progressive accomplishments LBJ successfully implemented.

[Hoyt]

10. Not "denying" anything, I am saying you are wrong.

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. I have concluded that yuo have no idea what you speak off 99 percent of the time

when it comes to policies. Free trade agreements, that you love, are neo liberal in nature.

[Hoyt]

14. Nationalists, America First types aren't even neo-liberal. They are much worse.

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. Again, you have no idea what the term means

and it is not just for the United States. Ignorance though, is bliss

[Vote2016]

25. OMG it's like debating a cat.

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. Some people do not realize that neo liberalism has been a political philosophy

going back decades. One despised abroad.

[uponit7771]

3. Weaver and Divine admitted not competing in the "southern states" and Sanders lost by over 2 million

... votes in the end.

The rules weren't broken the contempt that the Sanders camp had for black and brown votes were...

It's like they totally ignored the 08 primary, that's their fault ... not dem rules

[jeff47]

4. Because they're trying to create a bandwagon effect for the people who aren't in those states. (nt)

[SFnomad]

5. When you spew crap like "neoliberal-neocon third-way candidate", you're not looking for unity ...

... you're part of the problem.

[Vote2016]

8. Which part of that can you deny?

[SFnomad]

9. I stand by the fact that you're not looking for unity and that you're part of the problem n/t

[Vote2016]

13. "Neoliberal" - favoring international trade agreements to benefit the corporate sector globally,

deregulation of the banking and financial sectors, and reductions in government spending in order to enhance the role of the private sector in the economy (as with the movement toward private prisons).

"The Clinton Administration embraced neoliberalism by pursuing international trade agreements that would benefit the corporate sector globally (normalization of trade with China for example). Domestically, Clinton fostered such neoliberal reforms as the corporate takeover of health care in the form of the HMO, the reduction of welfare subsidies, and the implementation of 'Workfare'."

"The high rate (compared to Europe) of incarceration in the U.S. – specifically 1 in 37 American adults is in the prison system – heavily promoted by the Clinton administration, is the neoliberal U.S. policy tool for keeping unemployment statistics low, while stimulating economic growth through the maintenance of a contemporary slave population and the promotion of prison construction and 'militarized policing.'"

[creeksneakers2]

12. She's not third way

She has a 97% liberal voting record.

[Vote2016]

19. "Third Way" is a position akin to centrism that tries to reconcile right-wing and left-wing

politics by advocating a varying synthesis of right-wing economic and left-wing social policies.

"In the United States, "Third Way" adherents embrace fiscal conservatism to a greater extent than traditional social liberals, and advocate some replacement of welfare with workfare, and sometimes have a stronger preference for market solutions to traditional problems (as in pollution markets), while rejecting pure laissez-faire economics and other libertarian positions. The Third Way style of governing was firmly adopted and partly redefined during the administration of President Bill Clinton…  Clinton, Blair, Prodi, Gerhard Schröder and other leading Third Way adherents organized conferences to promote the Third Way philosophy in 1997 at Chequers in England.  The Third Way think tank and the Democratic Leadership Council are adherents of Third Way politics."

[creeksneakers2]

20. OK

But when people say third way here they are referring to right wing corporatists.

[Vote2016]

22. Yeah, exactly, they are referring to the policy theory Bill and Hillary invented. Did you really

think it was just the pantsuits that the progressive community dislikes about Hillary?

[creeksneakers2]

23. I think its an irrational characterization

The progressive community has a fervent but unbalanced world view.

[Vote2016]

24. The Clintons invented the characterization you are calling irrational

[creeksneakers2]

26. They aren't Republicans

They aren't corrupt and they aren't in corporate pockets. The Clintons never called themselves that so they didn't invent the characterization.

Progressives has shown the Clintons got money but no quid pro quo. Hillary has been very liberal and has a voting record to prove it.

[Vote2016]

28. Yes they did. Were you even around in the 1990s?

[creeksneakers2]

30. I remember the 1990s well

At the time, they were centrist, left of center.

[Attorney in Texas]

21. The Clintons INVENTED the Third Way

[creeksneakers2]

27. They adopted from it

The name was invented overseas.

[Attorney in Texas]

31. No. Stephen Skowronek a poli-sci professor at Yale created the term using language from a speech by

Bill Clinton. The "Third Way" started in the US BY THE CLINTONS and spread overseas.

The concept was invented here and the name was invented here. Why would you suggest otherwise? These are known facts.

[creeksneakers2]

32. I got it from here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Way

[JaneyVee]

7. Trump is beating Bernie by millions of votes. Not Hillary.

You dont get to call the shots. You can cooperate, you can have your voice heard, but you do not have authority.

[Trenzalore]

16. The most likely VP candidate is Sherrod Brown

If he isn't progressive enough for you, you have problems.

[Attorney in Texas]

17. He would be an excellent choice except that Kasich would pick his successor and potentially cost us

the possibility of taking back the Senate which is a more important goal than winning at the top of the ticket.

[asuhornets]

18. Your words:

this simple task will require 1/10th the compromise and good will that governing with a Republican House will require.

That's a joke right? Goodwill governing with the Republican House

[riversedge]

29. You said you had a simple question but it really was another Sanders fan Lecture. Here is something

simple. Now you know.


It really is this simple!


Tweet:
@BernieSanders is not going to be the nominee because he hasn't won enough votes or delegates. http://www.pressherald.com/2016/05/22/cynthia-dill-sanders-is-losing-fair-and-square/ #HRCIsOurNominee

[Tarc]

33. Do you have an actual question, i.e. not one drenched in Berniespeak?

[Vote2016]

35. Yes. Spoiler alert: it begins with the word "why" and ends with a question mark.

[Tarc]

36. "...i.e. not one drenched in Berniespeak?"

Words mean things, bro. Let me know when you figure that one out.

[Attorney in Texas]

38. "Berniespeak?" Are you asking for smaller words?

[Tarc]

39. No, just one not cloaked in "when did you stop beating your wife?" fallacies

I've got all night, brah.

[Attorney in Texas]

40. What is a fallacy in the OP? She's a global trade loving neolib. She's a third way centrist. Her

foreign policy is neocon.

Which of these facts is going most likely to give rise to your buyer's remorse?

[Tarc]

42. "neocon...neocon...neocon..."

I think the problem is that you're so far to the left that everything looks right-wing.

[Attorney in Texas]

43. I only said her foreign policy is right-of-center. Her domestic policy is neoliberal/Third Way which

is centrist, not right-of-center.

[procon]

37. This post make no sense.

Its another frivolous vanity post. There are so many errors and assumptions, there's no way to respond without the OP first taking a remedial USGovt-101 brush up.

The only worthwhile comment is this; "A true leader who cannot cooperate with allies will probably fail in November". Hear! Hear! Sanders has been in congress for what -- 25 years? -- with little to show for it and even fewer relationships who would endorse him so that he might acquire the number of superdelegates he will need to get the nomination. He couldn't even build a political network to back him in all that time, so how is he ever going to work "with a hostile House of Representatives?"

[liberal_at_heart]

41. holy crap! 40 replies and I see 1 reply. I think that is a new record for me.