2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumThis is a horrible speech from our "presumptive" nominee.
She's all over the place, no common thread, other than "he's bad...so I must be good"
the "I've went toe-to-toe with Russia and China" is some major chest pounding hawkish crap that's worthy of W. Bush's speech writers.
no vision, no call to action...just a bunch of rehash and finger pointing.
We are much bigger than that! we're supposed to be Democrats!!
onecaliberal
(32,775 posts)Send her son in law, send her brothers to the front lines. I'm sick of the killing and holier than thou attitude. We are the worst offenders.
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)Jitter65
(3,089 posts)to be ready to refute his rebuttal.
What would you have had her say? Or did you just want to have her apologize for Iraq over and over again and then apologize for Libya ...all of which were policies by Presidents. Have you ever encountered a Sec. of State that set foreign policy?
Jack Bone
(2,023 posts)CorporatistNation
(2,546 posts)e.g., MSNBC To the deniers... Watch THIS Video... It is not comforting to think that she may well be the Democratic Nominee...
Hillary really betrayed Andrea Mitchell... The entire context of this report was of a solemn nature... A Funeral so to speak...
Andrea Mitchell "I do not see this report as ...ANYTHING BUT... DEVASTATING!"
Chuck Todd "After this I don't think that she could get confirmed for Attorney General!"
Lots of FIBBING by Hillary here.. for more than a year!
Jack Bone
(2,023 posts)he's been a Hillary Cheerleader for years! Mr. Establishment goes along to get along....yeah it really caught me off-guard.
Downwinder
(12,869 posts)Jack Bone
(2,023 posts)Downwinder
(12,869 posts)okieinpain
(9,397 posts)pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)when she was a senator got "lost"? Don't you just hate it when that happens? Oopsie!
Downwinder
(12,869 posts)That was back in 2000. Figured it was worth getting a free address. Only reason I can see to run my own is to avoid NSL's.
Hekate
(90,538 posts)smh
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)It was great.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017380305
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)World crisis... climate change
This is NOT a problem for tomorrow, but TODAY. Bernie Sanders is the only candidate addressing it and calling for a press conference... because it IS A REAL CRISIS.
jillan
(39,451 posts)As if that's all that matters.
I wish he would've just said it doesn't matter if I win California or not the climate crisis is not going away.
We have no media. Very few journalists anymore. It's pathetic.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)I had my fingers in my ears for that monstrosity that was masquerading as public speaking.
CorkySt.Clair
(1,507 posts)And the GOP nominee. I could see how that would upset some folks here.
Mass
(27,315 posts)I have not heard the speech, so I cannot say if this rationale was there, but I think this is what the OP is saying and I subscribe to that.
CorkySt.Clair
(1,507 posts)And the word you're looking for is rationale, not rational.
MyNameGoesHere
(7,638 posts)because one of the Sanders fanatics said it's good.
Mass
(27,315 posts)MyNameGoesHere
(7,638 posts)and mad doesn't mean angry in this instance.
Mass
(27,315 posts)Because I have seen people going at the OP for saying something negative about Secretary Clinton, but I do not see anybody countering his criticism.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)They don't do that here, they just attack the messenger.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,708 posts)Her speech created the impression Trump was emotionally unbalanced and an unbalanced person should never be able to carry the nuclear football.
brush
(53,735 posts)Tarc
(10,472 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Here is his press conference today on the environment.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017380305
senz
(11,945 posts)It'll give your comments more heft and make you seem more interesting.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)'I'm not Trump' coupled with the list of Progressive goals she is NOT going to pursue just isn't going to cut it.
840high
(17,196 posts)Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)Surprise
840high
(17,196 posts)amandabeech
(9,893 posts)and North Africa. That's one of the reasons why I preferred Obama to her in the first place.
The initial poster is right. Now that her son-in-law has lost a lot of Lloyd Blankfein's money, maybe he could apply to officer candidate's school. Not that he would ever do that.
There's no doubt in my mind that Trump is a wild man, but an alternative that we be constantly involved in Middle Eastern and North African wars is not great.
CorkySt.Clair
(1,507 posts)Criticizing the GOP and Trump makes some folks here VERY uncomfortable.
amandabeech
(9,893 posts)Did you hear Tweety say that she was looking for Neo Con support?
Trump is a doofus and a braggart, but Clinton just reminded me of something about her I just don't like.
If you want to support endless wars in a part of the world where there are no good options, then be my guess. And if not supporting those wars makes me a Trump supporter and a Repiglican, then I have nothing more to say to you.
CorkySt.Clair
(1,507 posts)I'm not a one issue voter. I put the blame for Iraq where it belongs, in W's lap, and I know Trump is a lunatic.
Playtime is over. Either get on board for the big win or get out of the way. While DU is moving into GE mode, I'm moving those who can't see the stakes at hand or have their wittle feelers hurt so bad they'll stay home into the SFB category.
Have a good one!
amandabeech
(9,893 posts)n/t
Ilsa
(61,690 posts)She was specific in her criticism of DT. It didn't have to be about her, but about how dangerous and bad for the country DT would be. She didn't pull any punches.
And I voted for Bernie and still adore the man. And yes, I'll vote for HRC rather than not vote or vote 3rd party.
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)I'll bet Bernie's anti-Trump attacks make more sense than Hill's.
uponit7771
(90,301 posts)Chemisse
(30,802 posts)Jack Bone
(2,023 posts)brush
(53,735 posts)Chemisse
(30,802 posts)But there is a whole chunk of voters who could go either way. They really need to know what's at stake.
kstewart33
(6,551 posts)I'd love to hear his specifics on several foreign policy issues.
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)CanadaexPat
(496 posts)That's all I need to hear.
Schema Thing
(10,283 posts)Carolina
(6,960 posts)Yurovsky
(2,064 posts)going to hit their quarterly profit projections if we're not busy using the military to kill people and blow shit up?
Think of the poor shareholders! And the poor folks at GoldmanSachs and JP Morgan... Do you seriously want them to have to use the same yacht 2 years in a row or cut junior's allowance to $10k a week?
C'mon, bloodsucking Wall Street fucksticks are people too! (Just barely...)
I wonder where she'LL bomb first? Iran? Syria? North Korea? I guess you would need to pull up the various profit projections for each potential enemy, and that would probably be the deciding factor...
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Tommy_Carcetti
(43,145 posts)She's not the best speaker from the podium, but she's dominated it today.
k8conant
(3,030 posts)and I haven't got to that point yet.
Granted she's putting Trump down non-stop, but I haven't heard yet why she's better.
I'll keep listening.
On Edit: 12:36 PM PDT Her last two sentences, maybe.
madokie
(51,076 posts):barf:
smiley
(1,432 posts)we should be worried.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Because she becomes just like him.
CanadaexPat
(496 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Which she did with Sanders.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)Jack Bone
(2,023 posts)I had a hard time trying to find "the message"
like the talking head says..."this wasn't a foreign policy speech"..EXACTLY!!
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)something?
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)It's just another version of spewing 9/11 all the time.
senz
(11,945 posts)If Bernie were answering the phone next year, I and the whole world would feel safer because we'd be safer.
LibDemAlways
(15,139 posts)my skin crawl. Her performance as SOS sucked. She should never be anywhere near US foreign policy, especially with neocons like Kagan supporting her -- the lowest of the low worst of the worst who is licking his chops at the prospect of a reinvigorated "New American Century." Even Cheney thinks a Clinton Presidency would be "interesting." Evil, dangerous, greedy blood thirsty people are in her corner. Watch out.
840high
(17,196 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)She is just awful on foreign policy. Doesn't get subtlety or finesse or diplomacy at all.
She just sort of issues her fatwas -- sorry, ultimatums, and thus corners herself into having to take a given course even when the facts change.
That's why she evolves so much.
She has no vision. She doesn't know how to pause, say something, wait and see what the next development is and then react. She just was not born to leadership. She doesn't feel the pulse of reality and constant change well enough to deal with the presidency. Bill Clinton was pretty good at it, but she just isn't.
Doesn't mean she is a bad person. But there is this sort of leopard-like quality that a truly effective leader has to have, an awareness, a keenness, an alertness that Hillary does not have.
Bernie has it.
A leader has to be constantly vigilant and then leap at reality. Hillary just sort of hums under it -- often out of tune with it.
May I repeat. That does not mean she is a bad person. She just isn't a leader.
I'm not a leader either, but I know how leaders are.
senz
(11,945 posts)I would not want that on my conscience but have a feeling it doesn't bother her at all.
senz
(11,945 posts)to this thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512113640
LibDemAlways
(15,139 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)Hope it's as good as what you said here.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)brooklynite
(94,302 posts)Not just some applause lines at his rally?
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)It's great.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017380305
findrskeep
(713 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)on foreign policy I've ever heard.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)Break up the big banks!
JustABozoOnThisBus
(23,315 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)jack_krass
(1,009 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)nominee against Donald Trump
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)and must not bash the nominee.
You are imagining rules you would like to see. I am confident you will be disappointed.
jack_krass
(1,009 posts)"Political enemies".
Ned_Devine
(3,146 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Seriously, switch to decaf.
senz
(11,945 posts)Very rightwing.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Now that's courage.
Sid
Response to SidDithers (Reply #149)
Name removed Message auto-removed
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)No compromise of principles needed.
....Jon
Response to geek tragedy (Reply #42)
Post removed
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Just in case you didn't, here's the relevant language:
Many people will have to change their rhetoric about Clinton after the TOS gets enforced.
jack_krass
(1,009 posts)With electing Democrats. I certainly wouldnt. Ive worked to elect Democrats my whole life.
None of that is on condlict witb what I said last post
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)As will links to Fox News attacking her.
jack_krass
(1,009 posts)Jack Bone
(2,023 posts)we're talking "World Nut Daily" ....crap like that...
If anything, Hillary's tight w/ Rupert Murdoch...they're pals fer chrissakes!
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Bye.
How disappointed you'll be.
angrychair
(8,677 posts)"no vision, no call to action...just a bunch of rehash and finger pointing"
LibDemAlways
(15,139 posts)Maybe it could be shortened to Hillary: Say Yes to No.
madokie
(51,076 posts)Hillary just say Yes to NO
GreenPartyVoter
(72,377 posts)pablo_marmol
(2,375 posts)DemocratSinceBirth
(99,708 posts)1. After the primaries on June 7 (California, New Jersey, etc.)...
...we will announce that the primaries are nearing an end, and members will have one more week to "get it out of their systems".
The final Democratic presidential primary is Tuesday, June 14 in Washington DC. People will have one last glorious day of primary season on June 15, and then Democratic Underground general election season begins on Thursday, June 16.
Jack Bone
(2,023 posts)just trying to make our "presumptive" nominee a stronger candidate..
carry on.
LonePirate
(13,407 posts)You only have criticism to offer.
Jack Bone
(2,023 posts)carry on
panader0
(25,816 posts)Is it critical? It's a photo of your candidate after all.
LonePirate
(13,407 posts)The poster said he/she was offering constructive criticism while sporting a footer image that indicated that the criticism was anything but constructive. I called out that misrepresentation.
And for the record, I voted for Bernie back in March when he still had a chance. He has lost the primary race. It's time to move on. Stop living in the past and join the rest of us in the present.
panader0
(25,816 posts)You are saying that the photo itself is unconstructive. How so? She willingly attended the party, willingly
hugged Bush. So again I ask you, how is the photo offensive to you? The Bushes and Clintons are long
time friends.
LonePirate
(13,407 posts)I stand by my point that reading comprehension is a lost skill nowadays.
jack_krass
(1,009 posts)By the way, constructive criticism will be allowed after your countdown ends.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,708 posts)You are really good at disrespecting strangers, jack. I like my talent better.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)DemocratSinceBirth
(99,708 posts)I do believe I give succor to my fellow HRC supporters and let them know they aren't alone.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)we are all mirrors of the zeitgeist.
And if the 40-some percent of people who supported Sanders in the primary are told to "you lost. Buzz off." in the larger sense....a lot will in November.
senz
(11,945 posts)and go into full worship mode.
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)Must suck to be you.
840high
(17,196 posts)redstateblues
(10,565 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)qdouble
(891 posts)CorkySt.Clair
(1,507 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)and his foreign policy views are intelligent and thoughtful.
He writes his own material, too.
Waiting For Everyman
(9,385 posts)A key element of her expertise.
haikugal
(6,476 posts)JimDandy
(7,318 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Jack Bone
(2,023 posts)her topics didn't flow from one into the other....they were all over the place and very difficult to follow...(this coming from a Democrat)...imagine how difficult it was to follow from someone from freeperville?
what points could they say swayed them in anyway?
Peacetrain
(22,872 posts)She was on point.. explaining how Trumps foreign policy is delusional and not a policy at all
jzodda
(2,124 posts)I think she hit it out of the park. Its got Trump so angry he can't stop Tweeting....
It DEMOLISHED him....
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)to post it
I make no comments on these things... I know very non US Media
Jack Bone
(2,023 posts)after watching CNN post speech, I think that I figured it out.
I think it was a speech made up of primarily, talking points.
talking points that didn't mesh together as a "foreign policy" speech...spoken.
but man, they sound REALLY good as 5 second zingers for the cable news shows.
I dunno...I'm trying to find some light in this darkness.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)we posted it, with zero comment.
But right now I am having a hell of a time finding the text... and the video on local tv station is not 1080, let alone digital quality
Jack Bone
(2,023 posts)Tarc
(10,472 posts)This is basic "go outside the expertise of your enemy" here. She exposes the actual weakness and flaws of Trumpy's wall-building, Muslim-ejecting ridiculousness. Personalize it, attack the man himself, make him step up and actually defend his positions.
This is what the fall is going to be like; they play checkers, we play chess. Hell, we'll play 3D chess, while they try to eat their checkers and drool a bit.
ieoeja
(9,748 posts)Tarc
(10,472 posts)What you do is characterize how Trump will be dangerous/bad/horrible via the policies he will (o claims he will enact), or call back to his shoddy track record as a businessman.
angrychair
(8,677 posts)So tired of politics being about "how bad the other person is"...how about "this is my vision for our future" without mentioning anyone else or any compare/contrast nonsense.
So much of politics is being boiled down to bashing other people and name-calling. Why do we have to be more of the same?
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)In command of the issues-contrast to the Don
Mosby
(16,252 posts)I'm sure HRC will get right on it.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)What does "this" refer to?
MFM008
(19,803 posts)Were supposed to be democrats, does that mean folding to Trumps madness?
Letting him continue to attack on Vince Foster or some crap?
It puts attention right on his biggest weakness.
What does he do every time he calls a "PRESS CONFERENCE" worse than she did.
Nothing she says or does will suit the Berners.
June 16.
braddy
(3,585 posts)start going after him.
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Jack Bone
(2,023 posts)see post #78.
should've been touted as her "Anti-Trump" extravaganza...not a foreign policy speech.
MattP
(3,304 posts)auntpurl
(4,311 posts)Imagine being upset and criticising someone for ATTACKING Donald fucking Trump.
senz
(11,945 posts)Wake the fuck up.
elehhhhna
(32,076 posts)Nothing new here
Xyzse
(8,217 posts)I'd rather read it first before I make any comments.
AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)-- when in reality it is a huge, smelly, festering liability.
http://www.salon.com/2016/01/23/there_is_no_foreign_policy_d_league_hillarys_foreign_policy_disastrous_experience_partner/
http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/02/08/hillary-clintons-record-of-failure-as-secretary-of-state/
https://mic.com/articles/24646/5-foreign-policy-failures-during-hillary-clinton-s-time-as-secretary-of-state#.tBKKTe2bx
http://www.globalresearch.ca/hillary-clintons-six-foreign-policy-catastrophes/5509543
stillwaiting
(3,795 posts)I am very curious, and I would love to learn of a place in the world that is better off for regular citizens after HRC's involvement.
Anywhere.
senz
(11,945 posts)Truth beats blapping every time.
Purveyor
(29,876 posts)violated women's, LGBT and human rights.
One word clinton: Saudi Arabia and the Clinton Foundation.
You and your ilk stood up to them all right, with your measly hands out for more $$$.
Spit, rinse and repeat.
vintx
(1,748 posts)amandabeech
(9,893 posts)I'd be much more comfortable with Bernie in charge, and I can say that for several more days.
senz
(11,945 posts)Thank you.
asuhornets
(2,405 posts)You are just jealous...
Jack Bone
(2,023 posts)20 mins of 5 second zingers, does not a speech make
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)1. I'm not trump
2. I don't think we're in enough wars already
It will thrill her conservative fan club
qdouble
(891 posts)Are you guys relying on outright lying now?
MineralMan
(146,248 posts)And poppycock!
WiffenPoof
(2,404 posts)...and I thought it was a pretty darn good speech.
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Great speech.
Attorney in Texas
(3,373 posts)Response to Attorney in Texas (Reply #95)
emulatorloo This message was self-deleted by its author.
reddread
(6,896 posts)Attorney in Texas
(3,373 posts)qdouble
(891 posts)but heaven forbidy someone criticize trump
Jack Bone
(2,023 posts)Why on earth does Hillary Clintons Foreign Policy "Speech" have anything at all to do w/ Donald Freakin' Trump?
senz
(11,945 posts)and the crowd enthusiastically boos Trump.
beachbumbob
(9,263 posts)What a surprise here!!!!
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)KingFlorez
(12,689 posts)imagine2015
(2,054 posts)Oh good.
We need more wars, nice big ones!
Show people around the world who's boss!
We're gonna do some regime changing from Russia to China!
That's a winner!
amandabeech
(9,893 posts)She's better than Trump, but that's not saying much.
Love, love, love your GIF!
Let me toast you with a glass of wine, and pollute my precious bodily fluids!
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)what Clinton said, is pathetic.
amandabeech
(9,893 posts)But why she wants the money and votes behind the mostly Repuglican PNAC is beyond me, and will always be beyond me.
She voted for the Iraq War resolution, which is a gift that keeps on giving because it is part of the legal support for most of our actions in the Middle East and North Africa. Many people, including Poppy Bush, knew that if Saddam went, Iraq, whose borders were drawn up by British and French colonialists after they beat the Ottoman Empire in WWI and put three groups together who didn't like each other, Iraq would fall apart into warring factions. I hate to say that a Bush was right about anything, but Poppy was right about Iraq. Iraq as a country no longer exists.
But did Clinton learn from that? To quote the late John Belushi, "Noooooooo!"
Off we go into Libya! Libya is another country cobbled together by colonialists comprising of east, central and western groups. They're now battling it out there!
Then Syria! Another Ottoman "mosaic." Turks, Kurds, Christians of various types, Sunni Arabs, Alawite Arabs aligned with Shia but who are apostates to Sunnis. All with a nasty dictator holding control over the only Russian naval base that's never socked in by ice. As far as I can tell, everyone is fighting everyone else. I'd like them all to stop right now, but that's just not possible.
And the Saudis in Yemen.
SHE WAS INVOLVED IN GETTING THIS STARTED AND IT WILL NOT END IN MY LIFETIME.
She has screwed up massively and has not learned a thing!
I will shut up when I have to, but this business in MENA is terrible for us and them. But when we are allowed to criticize her policies here again, I will criticize her for this.
She was accepted at Radcliffe and Yale Law School. She got through one tough program well enough to get into another, and got through that. She is very bright. But she seems to be unable to learn at this point.
I have been off the internet for over a year due to family issues. I'm back on, and I will exercise my right to criticize until Skinner says no.
What is pathetic is the inability of Clinton supporters to acknowledge that Clinton has made mistakes that have hurt this country and others.
Perhaps it is pathetic that I think that criticism will somehow get through to her, but I can't help but try because I don't want to see any more people dying for false ideals.
qdouble
(891 posts)Please quote the particular line unless you're just making shit up.
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)Her daddy had the time to make make her feel loved.
senz
(11,945 posts)emulatorloo
(44,057 posts)madokie
(51,076 posts)We're democrats and we're not going to elect this woman to the Presidency. I say we can count on that too.
Bernie Sander will be our Next President
tonyt53
(5,737 posts)Jack Bone
(2,023 posts)Was supposed to show us how Presidential she is...or how well she can unite us in a common cause....she sadly failed.
findrskeep
(713 posts)anyone else lies with a straight face. Every time she says it I cringe and can only think of her getting caught in sooooo many lies. I can't be the only one. Projection is rampant these days.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)She has used up every crib note from her artful dodger handbook.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)I believe the only explanation, which is to "act" like she's the nominee.
She's done with him because she can't come up with any more promises to move to the left, since she could never be any more than a poop flinger, which is what she feels more comfortable doing against Drumpf... Stamp your feet all you want.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)Predictable from you, better still.
Justice
(7,185 posts)I am a Democrat - what about you?
Jack Bone
(2,023 posts)apart from her standing behind a podium, and reading prepared remarks...there's really nothing to brag about that being a "speech".
@ best it was 20 some minutes of 5 second zingers directed toward Trump.
this was drummed up as a foreign policy speech...no policies were put forward, that I could tell.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)I have higher standards for political speeches than just belittling one's opponent.
senz
(11,945 posts)She's a DINO.
Pay attention.
kstewart33
(6,551 posts)She went at Trump with a howitzer.
She's a tough ole broad. You go girl!
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)Queens...usually...simply dont care ..about U.S. peasants
doc03
(35,293 posts)Jack Bone
(2,023 posts)Maybe a hard hit ball to 3rd...we'll see if she can run it out.
LAS14
(13,769 posts).... months ago. Reduced him to "she did a terrible job with the teleprompter." Then we might have been threatened only with GOP conservatism instead of chaos.
Jitter65
(3,089 posts)glinda
(14,807 posts)OMG crazy.
AzDar
(14,023 posts)and the Press. Righty-O, Hill...
coyote
(1,561 posts)"she looks so presidential" by Clinton supporters.
senz
(11,945 posts)and appreciate the review.
Jack Bone
(2,023 posts)Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)She attacked the Republican nominee - who would be an unmitigated disaster for this country - and the world.
But she never mentioned Bernie - how upsetting.
senz
(11,945 posts)Jack Bone
(2,023 posts)Logical
(22,457 posts)Jack Bone
(2,023 posts)as for the post...it's what I noticed while watching Hillary's conflagration on Trump yesterday...take it for whatever it is...but it wasn't a foreign policy speech.
carry on...
Logical
(22,457 posts)Jack Bone
(2,023 posts)I was a moderator back in the day...
I'll be fine...but thanx for caring
carry on
Logical
(22,457 posts)Jack Bone
(2,023 posts)really haven't posted much under Obama...no need to.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)Jack Bone
(2,023 posts)B Calm
(28,762 posts)Jack Bone
(2,023 posts)Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)For what he is.