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TomCADem

(17,387 posts)
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 02:17 AM Jun 2016

"Bernie Sanders is taking a big risk: If he doesn’t drop out soon, he could become a villain"

Even Hillary did not have the ambition and ego being displayed by Bernie tonight. Even Ted Cruz accepted the reality that he would not be able to wrest the Republican nomination from Donald Trump. But not Bernie. Instead, despite an insurmountable deficit in pledged delegates and the popular vote, Bernie is proposing to take his fight for the nomination to the convention. And the only justification is that he might be able to convince superdelegates to ignore the will of the voters and hand him the nomination. This is an act of political narcissism that even Donald Trump could appreciate. Thus, rather than unify the Democratic party for the fight it will have, or admitting that Hillary is indeed the presumptive nominee, Bernie is going to continue the charade that his campaign has now become.

http://www.salon.com/2016/06/07/bernie_sanders_is_taking_a_big_risk_if_he_doesnt_drop_out_soon_he_could_become_a_villain/

The very notion that Bernie and his surrogates continue to behave as if the superdelegates are still in play is the beginning of the end of Bernie’s reputation, even with some of his supporters, including online journalists who are disavowing their support.

There was a time when we could look to Bernie as the conscience of the left. Today, however, his moral high ground position is rapidly evaporating. Among other reasons, Bernie and his people have been deliberately swindling the public about delegate math and the alleged fluidity of superdelegates for weeks now and, in the past several days, the deception has grown thicker than ever. (Bernie told the National Press Club, for example, that a majority of pledged delegates is 2,383, even though it’s actually 2,026.) The Bernie campaign is telling us that somehow the superdelegates, who have affirmed their support to networks and publications of record, will, for the first time ever, inexplicably abandon the winner of a majority of pledged delegates and the winner of the popular vote for a relatively untested democratic-socialist because… why? California? May polling for the November election? Rally attendance?

This is like cajoling a homeowner to sell a house to a buyer who doesn’t have the money, but who just really, really, really wants it, and all their friends say they deserve to own it. Indeed, suggesting that supers don’t count because they haven’t officially voted at the convention is like announcing that you haven’t eaten lunch until you’ve fully digested it. It’s like hearing from contrarian wonks who wait for the electoral college to hold its ceremonial votes in December before acknowledging the obvious winner of the November election.

* * *
Here’s a man who’s entire brand is about being a man-of-the-people, and he’s hinting today that he’s okay with begging superdelegates — participants in an allegedly undemocratic system he claims to despise — to entirely overrule the people’s choice. In other words, Bernie wants to exploit the evil establishment system he’s been attempting to destroy, using $208 million in individual donations, in order to defy the clear choice of Democratic voters. Because Rasmussen in May?
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"Bernie Sanders is taking a big risk: If he doesn’t drop out soon, he could become a villain" (Original Post) TomCADem Jun 2016 OP
Bernie's California speech was a partial pivot to handing this over to Clinton. aikoaiko Jun 2016 #1
...and the crowd openly bood Clinton and he said nothing... uponit7771 Jun 2016 #5
he waved it down. aikoaiko Jun 2016 #6
A container ship at flank speed has a turning radius of about 25 miles Recursion Jun 2016 #8
He's a career politician, not a "container ship". It just shows his weakness. KittyWampus Jun 2016 #23
I believe he is going to do the right thing- i.e. Concede and endorse- soon. Warren DeMontague Jun 2016 #11
Oh no, not a villain! You guys are too funny. nt Live and Learn Jun 2016 #2
+1000 KPN Jun 2016 #34
Ridiculous. grasswire Jun 2016 #3
There's a huge problem with that analogy. Lord Magus Jun 2016 #12
Why can't people just wait and see... pat_k Jun 2016 #4
that is funny larkrake Jun 2016 #7
He's already the villain. He's been portrayed as extreme, dangerous, violent, sexist, racist, Cheese Sandwich Jun 2016 #9
Strongly agreed. avaistheone1 Jun 2016 #25
Spot on! Good post. KPN Jun 2016 #35
Wrong. People never did or will understand what Bernie did, beyond shaping the Democratic platform WhaTHellsgoingonhere Jun 2016 #10
Yes, damn "the troll Nate Silvers" for showing with MATH that Bernie was losing. -nt- Lord Magus Jun 2016 #13
Thank you for proving my point. Anyone else want to play? WhaTHellsgoingonhere Jun 2016 #18
You know enough about MATH to know that Nate was practicing pundit Hackett WhaTHellsgoingonhere Jun 2016 #21
Why, because he wasn't using BernieMath? -nt- Lord Magus Jun 2016 #22
He explains why himself. He's a self-professed hack and all his media worshippers ran with his WhaTHellsgoingonhere Jun 2016 #24
Hillary supporters and the media have demonized the guy in just about every way possible. BlueStater Jun 2016 #14
Perhaps being cast as a villain by Hillary supporters is not such a bad thing. avaistheone1 Jun 2016 #28
Yes, like Robin Hood! KPN Jun 2016 #36
yeah it's sad... it's over Bernie Fast Walker 52 Jun 2016 #15
"become"? baldguy Jun 2016 #16
Give him a couple of days. Adrahil Jun 2016 #17
He should have began pivoting long ago metroins Jun 2016 #27
Could? NurseJackie Jun 2016 #19
A villain among a Dem bubble? I can live with that pinebox Jun 2016 #20
She beat Bernie metroins Jun 2016 #29
We'll see whether those favorability numbers hold if he he continues the "give it to ME" attitude. Lord Magus Jun 2016 #30
"Even Hillary did not have the ambition and ego being displayed by Bernie tonight." That Guy 888 Jun 2016 #26
No kidding. KPN Jun 2016 #38
He's set to meet the President on Thursday jzodda Jun 2016 #31
He does't know when to say enough liberal N proud Jun 2016 #32
Hmmm Faux pas Jun 2016 #33
+1!! KPN Jun 2016 #39
I don't think Sanders cares what the establishment thinks of him..... Sivart Jun 2016 #37
Exactly! KPN Jun 2016 #40
Whatever. jillan Jun 2016 #41

aikoaiko

(34,169 posts)
1. Bernie's California speech was a partial pivot to handing this over to Clinton.
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 02:20 AM
Jun 2016

He talked about Obama and Clinton in a positive light.
He talked about fighting Trump as first goal and transforming America for the better as the ultimate goal.

He's setting the stage for conceding to HRC.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
11. I believe he is going to do the right thing- i.e. Concede and endorse- soon.
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 07:20 AM
Jun 2016

So you should probably decide whether you'd rather sit around and nurse an endless series of grievances, or do whatever is in your power to unify our party for November.

grasswire

(50,130 posts)
3. Ridiculous.
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 02:28 AM
Jun 2016

The same kind of crap that Bush put on Gore.

"Don't be a sore loserman!!"

They stood outside the VP mansion and hollered "Get out of Cheney's house!!" and beat on pots and pans.

Is that next here?

The lesson from Bush v. Gore was "Never give up fighting."

Valid here, too.

Lord Magus

(1,999 posts)
12. There's a huge problem with that analogy.
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 07:38 AM
Jun 2016

Bernie would be the Bush in that scenario since he's the one trying to steal an election.

pat_k

(9,313 posts)
4. Why can't people just wait and see...
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 02:28 AM
Jun 2016

...what Sanders decides. He's said he'll be considering next steps in the next couple days. According to MSNBC he meets with Obama Thursday.

Stop with all the angst about what he will or won't do.

Just wait and see what he does.

You can applaud, or complain, or whatever, then.

 

Cheese Sandwich

(9,086 posts)
9. He's already the villain. He's been portrayed as extreme, dangerous, violent, sexist, racist,
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 07:12 AM
Jun 2016

... etc.

He wants to be a villain to the powerful.

He cares about keeping the respect of the movement that carried him that far. He will gauge what we want him to do.

 

WhaTHellsgoingonhere

(5,252 posts)
10. Wrong. People never did or will understand what Bernie did, beyond shaping the Democratic platform
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 07:16 AM
Jun 2016

We learned that the process of picking nominees! is disgracefully flawed, one a made for TV and pollsters. The Democratic primary should be a single, open primary held in one day in the first week of June. No caucuses, no closed primaries, no delegate counting along the way, no Superdelegates, no demanding a candidate to get out before all Americans get to vote because they're behind on the scoreboard. And certainly, I should never have heard of the troll Nate Silver. For these reasons, to expose the process as dysfunction and media, corporate, and pollster driven, Bernie is absolutely right to take this all the way to the primary.

 

WhaTHellsgoingonhere

(5,252 posts)
18. Thank you for proving my point. Anyone else want to play?
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 08:12 AM
Jun 2016

Chris Matthews et al at MSNBC were super trolls, to. But I never should have, and never would have, heard of Nate Silver for the reasons that escape you and +90% of Americans, those who like to be told what to think by corporate media talking heads.

 

WhaTHellsgoingonhere

(5,252 posts)
21. You know enough about MATH to know that Nate was practicing pundit Hackett
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 09:53 AM
Jun 2016

*hackery

Not just obvious to me, those were pretty much his own words.

No MATH, TROLL

 

WhaTHellsgoingonhere

(5,252 posts)
24. He explains why himself. He's a self-professed hack and all his media worshippers ran with his
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 10:40 AM
Jun 2016

narrative because that's all these people -- pollsters and talking heads want to do -- tell you what to think and when to be outraged. But it's completely lost on you people, and that's why we know Nate Silver's name.

BlueStater

(7,596 posts)
14. Hillary supporters and the media have demonized the guy in just about every way possible.
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 07:40 AM
Jun 2016

So, yeah, sure. He's a villain now. Why not?

 

avaistheone1

(14,626 posts)
28. Perhaps being cast as a villain by Hillary supporters is not such a bad thing.
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 10:58 AM
Jun 2016

Bernie has taken on the establishment and really shaken things up. He has been able to bring to national focus issues that would otherwise be discussed. Bernie has brought a ton of new voters into the party. Okay then he is a villain, a beloved villain to many of us.

Long live the villain!!



.

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
17. Give him a couple of days.
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 08:01 AM
Jun 2016

It's hard to pivot from all-in "we're gonna win" to conceding and endorsing the winner. Give him a little room, and his followers a chance to express some grief.

metroins

(2,550 posts)
27. He should have began pivoting long ago
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 10:57 AM
Jun 2016

This was over in March, the Sanders campaign saw the writing at least last week.

He should have pivoted a week or two ago and conceded last night.

It's not like last night was news.

 

pinebox

(5,761 posts)
20. A villain among a Dem bubble? I can live with that
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 08:23 AM
Jun 2016

Meanwhile most of America likes him, see favorability numbers.
Hillary outside the tiny Dem bubble is loathed and hated by the majority of American's.

That is reality.

Lord Magus

(1,999 posts)
30. We'll see whether those favorability numbers hold if he he continues the "give it to ME" attitude.
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 11:09 AM
Jun 2016

Insisting that he's entitled to win when he lost is to going to play well.

 

That Guy 888

(1,214 posts)
26. "Even Hillary did not have the ambition and ego being displayed by Bernie tonight."
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 10:57 AM
Jun 2016

umm... No. Clinton is all about ego, and apparently projection.

KPN

(15,643 posts)
38. No kidding.
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 11:41 AM
Jun 2016

That line's a crock if there ever was one. Bernie is pretty much ego-less -- it's not about him -- which is why he can make a stand and continues to stand against a corrupt system. Whereas Hillary did the calculus and determined it was in her best interests to be a team player and go along. Two different animals.

jzodda

(2,124 posts)
31. He's set to meet the President on Thursday
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 11:12 AM
Jun 2016

Lets see what happens after that meeting. It will happen most likely after DC.

Faux pas

(14,672 posts)
33. Hmmm
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 11:16 AM
Jun 2016

when I think of villains I think of the ones who voted for war, kiss wall street ass, think fracking is a good thing and is willing to put Soc Sec on the table (or give it to wall street). Bernie surely ain't one of those.

KPN

(15,643 posts)
39. +1!!
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 11:42 AM
Jun 2016

Not to mention deem TPP the gold standard of trade agreements, and changing tunes with the wind.

 

Sivart

(325 posts)
37. I don't think Sanders cares what the establishment thinks of him.....
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 11:38 AM
Jun 2016

And I think this should be obvious. I think it should also be obvious that Sanders doesn't give two shits what pundits think about his "brand."

And I don't really see how he can be faulted for wanting to try to use the super delegates for the purpose they are there for - to over turn the results if it is for the good of the party and/or election......which I believe he believes applies in this case.

But at any rate, if the establishment decides he is a villain, and many already have, I don't think it bothers him or those that support him one bit.

It doesn't bother me.

He's been called worse at this site.

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