2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumWhat must Hillary Clinton do to earn your vote?
Rather than participate in yet another defensive election cycle to keep someone (and his millions of voters, however unhinged or ill-informed) out of power, I will listen carefully to WHY I ought to support and vote for the Democratic nominee for President.
First, a comprehensive and draconian plan to stem global fossil fuel use would get my attention. Also, different language about universal health care that lines up with what most people actually want, rather than what the bought players tell us is possible. Maybe a mea culpa about her time as Secretary of State with a pledge to lead the world toward peace and connection rather than war and empire.
What about you? Assuming you're not a Hillary fan of long standing, what is your vote worth, other than what the media say it is?
NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)Ron Green
(9,822 posts)I think that's sad. We need much more in the 21st Century.
NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)As long as she does that I'll vote for her.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)if that's all she could manage I'd vote for just that reason too.
metroins
(2,550 posts)But defeating Trump is my only real requirement right now.
agnostic102
(198 posts)she has top stop voting for, directing policy or otherwise supporting wars in the middle east. if she promises that she will not support the sunni al quida type rebels in syria and tries to get us involved in yemen and such. I will fully support her.
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)demwing
(16,916 posts)She could promise to adopt Bernie's platform in whole, but how can anyone ever trust her?
How can you trust a serial liar to keep a promise?
CorporatistNation
(2,546 posts)AGAIN, THE "TRUST" ISSUE REIGNS SUPREME!
AND WHY NOT?
e.g., MSNBC To the deniers... Watch THIS Video... It is not comforting to think that she may well be the Democratic Nominee...
Hillary really betrayed Andrea Mitchell... The entire context of this report was of a solemn nature... A Funeral so to speak...
Andrea Mitchell "I do not see this report as ...ANYTHING BUT... DEVASTATING!"
Chuck Todd "After this I don't think that she could get confirmed for Attorney General!"
Lots of FIBBING by Hillary here.. for more than a year!
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Perhaps she should have thought about unity a while ago.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)So, basically, it ain't happening.
John Poet
(2,510 posts)Yeah, kinda tough to make that happen, after she helped the right-wing military coup to establish itself.
Much of the damage Hillary has done in the world,
she cannot undo.
Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)starting with single payer healthcare....
bemildred
(90,061 posts)Redistricting happens in the next adminstration, I want a Democratic Congress even more than I care about who gets to be President.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)SCOTUS. We need the presidency more than usual.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)IMHO, nothing is more important than Congress. If one wants real reform, that is where it is done.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Exilednight
(9,359 posts)1. Replace DWS with a fair and more neutral figure within the party.
2. A real plan to fix man made climate change.
3. Money out of politics.
BreakfastClub
(765 posts)changing by 7%. That should do it! If that isn't it, I don't know what else--maybe grow a penis?
ciaobaby
(1,000 posts)Yeah - I will not be holding my breath.
JudyM
(29,236 posts)United and outsized political/policy influence by lobbyists/corporations ... The latter impacts all important policies and true progress and I doubt that she is in a position or of the belief to move on this at all. Her history of completely ignoring even the most basic conflict of interest principles we learn as law students gives me no hope on this, and is the main reason I support Bernie.
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)It's time to get ALL of Hillary's SD's on record - NOW - before the general - that they will vote against it, if an elected official, or will lobby against it if they represent pharmaceuticals/gmos/fossil fuels/etc
I think that would take her a long way towards convincing the progressive core of the Democratic party and independents that she was serious, and that her SD support her and not the other way around.
Let's see some interviews with these folks NOW on MSNBC, CNN, ABC, Washington Post, New York Times.
Time is ticking!
Orsino
(37,428 posts)...rebuking the drivers of inequality and the merchants of war.
It's a tall order. She can have my vote simply by continuing to Not Be Trump, but if she's willing to stick up for big change, she will earn my enthusiastic support.
NV Whino
(20,886 posts)B Calm
(28,762 posts)bigwillq
(72,790 posts)I heard Saturn is nice.
I'd vote for her for President of Saturn.
Dark n Stormy Knight
(9,760 posts)quite wealthy. This really sums it up for me. It reflects the fact that she is all too isolated in a world of money and privilege.
By the way, draconian means excessively harsh and severe. I never support excessive, as excessive is by definition bad. I want the necessary ande ffective amount of something, not too much of it.
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)anotherproletariat
(1,446 posts)She's running against an orange racist, so yeah...
eastwestdem
(1,220 posts)Miles Archer
(18,837 posts)That's for starters.
The other big sticking point for me is that we need to reduce, and ultimately eliminate, Middle Eastern involvement.
I know how that goes...gradually remove troops, "maintain a presence," whatever.
But we really don't need any new wars unless we are under a direct threat.
Those are the two big issues.
I may be 100% off base on both.
So as long as the Wall Street / War Hawk thing isn't a reality, my two biggest issues go away.
Perception may not be reality. Maybe she has no intention of going to extremes on either.
But you asked, and I gave you an honest answer.
Ron Green
(9,822 posts)I can see that the responses fall into three camps: 1) She should abdicate, or disappear (these must be the hard-core "Bernie or bust" people); 2) She's GONNA BEAT TRUMP, and that's all we need (the Hillary fans); and 3) Serious policy thoughts such as yours. Would that your camp will grow.
Ms. Toad
(34,069 posts)It is all political strategy for her. Her policies and reality are whatever she perceives they need to be in order to get elected (or acquire the next political job). She has neither the time, nor the circumstances, to be able to effect a policy change that could bring me into the support camp between now and November. (Every moment between now and then she is running for office - so there is no period in which to test whether any announced policy change is true policy change v. political expedience.)
Essentially you are asking a "when did you stop beating your mother" question - your premise that it is possible to win me over by a policy change is faulty. It isn't her policies that trouble me most. It is that even if she crafted the perfect policy, my experience of watching her behavior over the years tells me that the perfect policy would change tomorrow if polls told her that sticking with the perfect policy might threaten her electability.
In November, I will ultimately vote against Trump. The only question remaining is whether I can craft any spiel I can say with a straight face that is framed as support rather than opposition (my integrity is not for sale - so I won't say something I don't believe). If I can't, I may lend my support during the voting period to ensure voting is fair (I worked two counties in advance of election day on behalf of the Democratic Party during the last election, and in the "War Room" for the more critical of those two counties on Election day).
At this point, I can't envision doing much more.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)I will vote my concience and will sleep well.
Ms. Toad
(34,069 posts)Trump scares me to death - and, unlike many, I am not underestimating him - or the American public who handed him the GOP nomination when everyone thought he was just a joke candidate.
That suggests I should be actively working to keep him from being elected - because I think there is a significant risk that he will be elected without all hands on deck. On the other hand, I cannot, in good conscience, work FOR Clinton. The chances that anything she could do or say would allow me to live with my conscience and campaign FOR her are slim to none, given that her foreign policy actions are the antithesis of all I've believed in and worked for, for about 5 decades, and I don't trust her political judgment policy policy integrity.
But merely campaigning against someone doesn't really sit well with me. So I'll continue to wrestle with whether there is any way I can reframe it and lend a hand.
SeattleVet
(5,477 posts)This coming November (if she is, indeed, the Democratic candidate at that time) she will *get* my vote, grudgingly and under protest, but she will not have 'earned' it (other than by being the candidate of this party).
I have voted for exactly ONE GOP candidate for any office since I started voting in 1972, when 18-year-olds got the right to vote. That candidate was an incumbent, had been doing a very good job for a few terms, and had no serious Democratic competition. If I remember correctly, some total whackjob had filed as (D) against him, and got something like 15-20% of the vote in an extremely blue district.
My first ballot was absentee, mailed in from Lowry AFB in Colorado while I was stationed there for a 9-month tech school. I was happy and proud that I was able to vote against Nixon (for all the good it did).
Bernie Sanders has supported veterans for his entire career. He has consistently 'had my back'. If he were the candidate, he actually has done many things that have *earned* my vote. Hillary, not so much...
In the end, HRC will get my vote, but I can never honestly say that she had 'earned' it.
ymetca
(1,182 posts)Or at least cut me some slack on all these bills I owe...
kpola12
(78 posts)CanadaexPat
(496 posts)peace13
(11,076 posts)Explain how and why she did not follow Obama's dierection while SOS, detail her thinking on a private server, release the deleted emails, explain how she will keep Bill from causing problems while she is presidenting. Apologize to Bernie Sander's for manipulating the election.
Thanks, for asking.
larkrake
(1,674 posts)Glassunion
(10,201 posts)However, since she appears to be our nominee, she'll get my vote.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)Sivart
(325 posts)I'd maybe vote for her to be the grand marshal at my local christmas parade, but that's about it, and it would depend who else was running.
phleshdef
(11,936 posts)I like her fine as a person. But she will make a lack luster President and there will probably be a million scandals.
HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)But, the party as a whole could ACT at the convention to make me feel like I have something to gain by being in a coalition with a caucus whose economic/trade, international/militaristic, and social policies are as welcome as an ice-water shower.
One of the things they could do is pass a rule that all state dem parties must do their purges of inactive members in a timely manner that yet provides for inactive dems to re-register for caucuses, primaries and other partisan elections
Another thing they could do is limit the life-time appointments of superdelegates. In particular they could require that any superdelegate who is functioning as a lobbyist loses their SD status.
Another thing the Party could do is adopt a rule which states that using the celebrity of office for profit will eliminate superdelegate status.
And they could recommend that primaries and caucuses be open to full participation of independent/unaffiliated voters.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)And come out for full descheduling of cannabis at the federal level, instead of a token move from schedule I to II- which does not reconcile the conflict between federal law and state laws legalizing both recreational and medical.
I will vote for her either way, however, I think such a move would not only be the right thing to do, it would also be the policially astute one, particularly with regards to bringing millennials on board her campaign.
Paulie
(8,462 posts)It can't exist while she (and Bill) run the executive branch.
Give it all to Habitat for Humanity.
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,614 posts)I heartily second your splendid idea.
JesterCS
(1,827 posts)RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)That would be so cool.
Pastiche423
(15,406 posts)hobbit709
(41,694 posts)Response to Ron Green (Original post)
Post removed
aikoaiko
(34,169 posts)I don't think there is anything she can do.
Her best chance of getting my vote is if Trump continues to be a nightmare and it's close in my state.
Sadly she will govern to the right of Obama. One of the things about Obama is that he loves all Amercans even the losers who were vicious toward him. He pitied them. HRC has identified Republicans as her enemy and it's going to unpleasant time.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)I will be very quiet about the election for the next few months, except to criticize Trump
dubyadiprecession
(5,711 posts)Lithos
(26,403 posts)I'll vote Democrat no matter what..
The vote that matters is that of my friend who voted Republican the last four elections. He's leaning towards Libertarian because he hates Trump, but will not vote for Hillary because of her association with "politics as usual".
She'll need to work on her negative factors, she'll also need to explain her inconsistencies over issues. His belief is that she's wishy washy and a follower of the lobbyist dollar.
L-
davidn3600
(6,342 posts)Which means she have absolutely no chance at my vote.
icecreamfan
(115 posts)Paying any taxes the Clinton's saved by using a fake Delaware address instead of one in NY would be nice too.
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)MyNameGoesHere
(7,638 posts)It's either #bernout or fade away, their choice.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)So really you are asking what can Hillary *say* to earn your vote because the doing won't start until the voting is done.
slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)demwing
(16,916 posts)Why would anyone believe the promises of a serial liar?
hollowdweller
(4,229 posts)If she truly pushes a progressive agenda I will vote for her re election.
If she appointed non bank connected people to office even more.
PufPuf23
(8,774 posts)specifically not Trump nor GOP.
There is nothing Hillary Clinton could do at this point for my trust or respect by the GE.
I am open to revise over time but have little faith.
I have voted most often in the past for candidates I did not specifically support and who championed policies that I disagreed.
I have always been a Democrat that voted for Democratic candidates.
Hillary Clinton does not represent many if not a majority of common Americans and is a danger to incite more wars.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Climate Change, Yup what you said.
Health Care, ditto
Regulation of banking, yeah, yeah I read what she has on her site, but it hardly goes far enough. We do need a wall between commercial and investment banking We did that once, but anyway. While we are at it, all those off shores, start negotiating treaties to stop that practice, This is necessary, We are talking of 13 trillion dollars slushing around in these places, Not just American, but imagine all that lost wealth? Oh and Europe is willing, so that could be a nice start.
Trust busting, start with the media. 5 media companies and the illusion of information is not such. Then there are things like yes Walmart, and the rest of them. We do have legislation in the books, use it.
Ok you want foreign trade, I want fair trade. No more NAFTAs... we really need to pull wage scales op. But we also need to realize that production has to be done in places that do not allow to externalize for effects on the environment Companies have to internalize all costs, including environmental and infrastructure degradation, This has to be in treaties. So has to be the protection of labor rights, The weakening of labor world wide has to stop.
Oh and what happens when robotics start to take over jobs in a massive scale? We need to plan for that. We also need to plan to the mass displacement of workers that is already happening due to all the previous FTAs. Oh and while at it.
We also need to reverse the now starting to be scary resegregation of American schools, and of course we need to start investing large wads of cash into urban core schools We need to make sure those schools are to par of suburban schools, Magnets and Charters are not working and are helping to accelerate the resegregation of these schools. Oh and that is revealed in a recent GAO report, like two weeks old. (Crap I read)
While we are on this issue of poor schools the school to prison pipeline has to stop.
Mass incarceration has to be reversed, We can start by ending the war on drugs. But we also need to reinvest heavily in urban cores, where families have been decimated by these practices. This may even mean getting people permanent help, and we need to get rid of the box.
On and that is just the tip of the iceberg. As I said, I could be here all night.