Do you think that Hillary will switch positions to being pro-TPP?

[SpareribSP]

Just thought this would be interesting, with google coming out for it.

[Duckhunter935]

1. Yes

[yeoman6987]

2. I think that would be a bad move sine trumps against it.

[TheBlackAdder]

50. I think Obama will take TPP and/or KXL off her plate by approving them during his lame duck session.

.


After the election, when HRC is in the clear and no one can really affect Obama.


.

[karynnj]

81. TPP - yes, KXL- no

Obama has been fighting hard for the TPP. If there is a window where he has enough support to pass it, he will pass it. He fought hard to get the fast track that makes passage feasible.

Obama has denied the KXL pipeline and it is contrary to everything he wants his legacy to be on climate change. Not to mention, it would take a large price increase for oil for recovering the dirty tar sands oil to be profitable. Where approval was extremely likely when HRC left the State Department with a just completed study that pretty much would have been the basis for approval, times have changed.

In addition to the economics not being there, there was the huge oil spill on the regular Keystone (not KXL) this year. I can imagine that Obama will NOT want his name attached to having approved something that made the extraction of incredibly dirty oil more economically feasible. The Paris Climate accord, along with ACA and the Iran deal, is a major part of Obama's legacy. Allowing Keystone would tarnish the credit he deserves for allowing Kerry to work on climate deals.

Not to mention, in his statement, Kerry disputed what had been a key assumption of the State Department study. The study ASSUMED that the amount of oil to be extracted would be the same with or without the pipeline. However, as the pipeline would have lower the transportation cost, it would raise the threshold for the extraction cost that would still be economically viable.

One thing that suggests the Republicans have not dropped this is that House Oversight committee (chair is Chaffetz) has demanded Kerry appear to answer questions on the pipeline. Kerry, a lifelong environmentalist, was against the pipeline as a Senator and is completely unlikely to give anyone cover on this.

[QC]

3. Does the bear shit in the woods? n/t

[SheilaT]

54. Damn! You beat me to it!

[winter is coming]

4. Switch? n/t

[-none]

42. My thought too.

[pnwmom]

5. No. n/t

[SpareribSP]

12. Do you think she'll be vocally against it, or silent?

I think it'll be interesting because I figure it's a talking point that's going to get hammered on. Seems like at least for Bernie fans there's no trust that she's actually against it, so it would be hard for her to be pro-TPP if she becomes more vocally against it in the election season, no?

[Eric J in MN]

6. Congress will probably pass TPP in the lame duck session amid silence from HRC.

If she becomes president and the TPP hasn't passed yet, then she'll support it.

[Cal Carpenter]

7. You mean switch *back* to being pro-TPP?

Because she vocally and actively supported it. Until she didn't.

[99th_Monkey]

17. ^^this^^

[PoliticAverse]

8. Consider that it may be a moot point by inauguration day. n/y

[KansDem]

9. She's switched before...

I oppose CAFTA & TPP, but global economy needs trade. (Feb 2016)
I absorbed new info and changed my mind to oppose TPP. (Oct 2015)
Trans Pacific trade deal doesn't meet my standards. (Oct 2015)
TPP must produce jobs, raise wages, & protect security. (Apr 2015)
Chief advocate for Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP). (Aug 2014)

On the Issues

Two years ago she was for it. Then eight months ago she "absorbed" new information and changed her mind to oppose it. Who knows what information she might "absorb" eight months from now. After all, the "global economy needs trade."

[Gomez163]

39. 5 days

[MoonRiver]

51. +1000

[That Guy 888]

78. Until National Fudge Day!!!

Thanks for the reminder.

[MrMickeysMom]

11. She'll say anything to be elected...

What in the world does this have to do with a Future We Can Believe In?

Nothing.... That's what.

[annavictorious]

28. Now that's a right wing trope if ever I heard one.

At least she didn't change her view on guns after she lost her first congressional election in order to meet the NRA's approval and win the seat on her second try. What kind of person does that?

[QC]

40. Pres. Obama is right wing?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/3/12/1500138/-Obama-2008-Campaign-Ad-She-ll-say-anything-and-change-nothing

[AntiBank]

67. What kind of person does that? <<<< LOLOL, you walked right into that one!

[Matt_in_STL]

13. Well, let's look at history to see if this is possible.

She publicly argued against the Colombia Free Trade Pact and a similar trade agreement for South Korea. Meanwhile, as she was telling us she was against those, she was lobbying for them behind the scenes. So, do I think she'll switch positions to being pro-TPP? No. I think she is already there and ready to sign "The Gold Standard". My guess is that she will tell us the things she had concerns about were changed and then hope we never find out it wasn't true.

[kadaholo]

14. The Question is...

...what will she actually do if elected regardless of what she says.

[Arazi]

15. Yes eom

[Armstead]

16. She'll ignore it in the election and then quietly support it

tghere will be a cosmetic tweak and she'll say she's in favor because it has been imporved

[99th_Monkey]

19. I hope Trump makes it impossible for her to ignore it during general election nt

[auntpurl]

71. Sounds like you are rooting for Trump

[99th_Monkey]

87. No I am vehemently opposed to the TPP, at any cost.

because it cedes US Govt sovereignty to corporate Oligarchs. AND i have
little reason to trust that Clinton agrees with me.

Clinton SAYS (thanks to Bernie) she opposes it, and I hope she STILL needs
to be held accountable and called out on it.

I find your contorted mis-use of the TPP issue to attempt to paint me as a some
kind of "Trump supporter" to be despicable.

[annavictorious]

33. You mean like what Sanders did in 2009 with his broken promises on health care reform?

It's too hard to get universal health care or a single payer option, so I'll just vote for the ACA and go home to Vermont for the holidays. I can always revisit health care after I start my revolution. In the meantime, I deserve a vacation.

[glowing]

37. Are you kidding? Probably not, and it's not worth my time

correcting you... Ultimately, he did get some great items into the ACA that have helped quite a few.

[Armstead]

57. What planet are you from?

If you had followed the ACA debate at all, you'd know that is completely off base.

[karynnj]

82. BS - He was on the HELP committee and he got the community health centers

funded to help people, mostly in rural areas.

Sanders in 2009, when asked, said that though he had introduced legislation for single payer, there were not more than 10 Senators that would vote for it.

By the way, in 2005 or 2006, when the Democrats could not have passed anything Ted Kennedy introduced a bill that was essentially single payer health care. Yet, starting in the summer of 2008, he was hard at work - despite his health problems - working with staff to create what became the HELP committee's version of ACA. ( I was at an election eve rally in November 2008 where Kerry explained that that was why Kennedy was not there at what was his traditional election eve rally in Barnstable county. Kennedy had asked Kerry to take his place - and he did. What was cool was there were double sided signs for Kerry and Kennedy that had been stapled together for the rally. Looking closely, both were printed and paid for by the Kerry campaign, because no old Kennedy signs had been saved by Kennedy's office after 2006 when he ran. )

So, would you like to take back this asinine attack on Sanders ... or extend it to Senator Kennedy?

[Locrian]

56. exactly

Bet on it. She absolutely has been and currently is for it. Right now she's flip flopping because it got too much exposure.
Look for it to be "fixed" and somehow sold as creating jobs and stability. Then passed quietly during some diversion news story.

[Shemp Howard]

18. Sure she will.

But Hillary will switch back to being pro-TPP only after the election, assuming she wins.

A person does not take money from huge corporations, then goes against the wishes of those corporations. Don't bite the hand that feeds you, and all that.

After all, Hillary will have to raise money for the 2020 campaign. Goldman-Sachs has much deeper pockets than the part-time guy working at Wal-Mart.

[pampango]

20. Very doubtful. I just hope she does not disparage ALL international agreements the way Trump does.

I think her advantage is that she supports international law (just as Barack and Bernie) do. Trump scoffs at it, much preferring unilateral American action not negotiations that "tie our hands".

Opposing bad international agreements is smart. Opposing ALL of them is stupid.

[RobertEarl]

21. She is an old school politician

So there is no telling what she'll do.

But the big money is on yes, she will support trade deals that benefit corporations.

[elljay]

22. She has NOT said she opposed the TPP

I cannot emphasize this enough. Her exact words were:

"I said I would like to renegotiate NAFTA when I ran in 2008," she said Sunday. "And I currently oppose TPP in its current form."

She is against the CURRENT WORDING of the TPP, not the CONCEPT. This means that the TPP can be revised to a NEW form and she can support it without changing her position.

Further, I have not heard her express any opposition to the corporate arbitration panels, which may be the most noxious part of the agreement. Her objections are to the local content provisions.

She has not at all changed her position- let's take her at her word. She supports the idea of the TPP, did not like the wording of the current draft, but has said nothing to indicate she wouldn't support a revised TPP.

[SpareribSP]

70. This is an interesting take I'm surprised I haven't heard more of.

Wish she would talk more about it.

[elljay]

74. I am an attorney

and so is she. We write in a very specific way- some call it legalese. When we analyze a document or statement, we look at exactly what was written, no no more or no less. When you read exactly what she has said, you see that she has some very specific comments about the way the agreement is worded. It is like saying , "I read The Hunger Games and thought there were too many adjectives in Chapter 1." That is not the same as, " I read The Hunger Games and hated the book." Subtle difference and, in Hillary's case, intentional. Our press needs to call her out on this and force her to either issue a blanket disavowal of the concept of the TPP, or admit that she would support it if some changes were made. Of course, no one is doing that.

[rickford66]

23. Yes

[Juicy_Bellows]

24. I am not certain of her current position on the matter.

The only person that does is her, and she serves more waffles than IHOP.

[Betty Karlson]

25. Yes. Her record screams that she will commit that kind of betrayal,

right after she has found a way to triangulate it.

[tonyt53]

26. not a chance

[jwirr]

27. Do you think her big donors are going to let her?

[Jackilope]

29. It will suddenly be "gold standard" again.

Or.... she will be "against it", while getting the votes to pass it in the background.

[davidlynch]

34. ^^^THIS^^^

[femmedem]

32. I think she'll announce some tweaks that marginally improve it and then support it. n/t

[panader0]

35. Yes. With Obama recently pushing it again, and then endorsing HRC, she'll flip positions.

[Red Mountain]

36. yes

[felix_numinous]

38. The one thing I do believe about HRC

is that big red arrow to the right.

[Skwmom]

41. Define switching positions. Did she ever really switch from her orginial position?

[azurnoir]

43. switch?

[Florencenj2point0]

44. no

[Lucinda]

45. Nope. She is not in favor as it stands. n/t

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

46. She probably hopes that it passes and Obama signs it.

Then she can laugh and say "it's my predecessor's fault, nothing I could do about it".

[gollygee]

47. It's hard to say

On one hand, she'll be influenced by how popular Bernie was, and she'll be looking to four years from now.

On the other hand, President Obama is in favor of the TPP, and they seem pretty similarly aligned.

[Tom Rinaldo]

48. Whtever she says, I doubt she'll work to kill it

That is the key. Expect it to come up in the lame duck session early next year. She could kill it if she wants to.

[NorthCarolina]

49. She never truly left it. Populist positions taken during a primary campaign mean exactly squat.

Recall how Obama was all for a "Public Option" during the campaign, then post election never mentioned it again, let alone take to the bully pulpit to push for it.

Now that Bernie is effectively out of the running the remainder of the campaign will be policy free. That's why Hillary never held rally's. Because she never talked specific policy ideals. The establishment cannot run a policy based campaign. They will be able to have their campaign based solely on personal attacks bantered back and forth between the candidates. No substance, just a show for the low info voter.

[notadmblnd]

52. Yep and she'll carry on with her promotion of fracking too.

[Blue Meany]

53. If she is elected, I expect that she will make a few tweaks in it to

address labor and human rights issues, but without any mechanism for enforcement; it will be passed by Congress with a few speeches about the how it now protects American workers; our jobs will be shipped overseas and corporations will become the Supreme authority of the Western world, and we will embrace our roles as corporate serfs or die.

[Trajan]

55. Yes ... And it will take another generation to reverse it

If we ever make it out alive ...

[HooptieWagon]

58. Yes.

She'll claim to be against it over a few minor issues. A couple meaningless changes will be made, and she'll enthusiastically embrace it after the election. Classic Third Way bait and switch.

[Live and Learn]

59. Of course. And you left out the 'again'. nt

[amandabeech]

60. Yes, but not until after the election. n/t

[bigwillq]

61. Yes

She is known for switching positions.

[TheFarseer]

62. Like others have said

If it's not passed already, she'll have some kind of excuse why she didn't want to pass it but she has to.

[Barack_America]

63. 100% yes.

[lumberjack_jeff]

64. I'm sure that the third edition of her autobiography will re-include that chapter.

http://cepr.net/blogs/the-americas-blog/hillary-clinton-s-memoir-deletions-in-detail

[Recursion]

65. No, she doesn't like how it ended up

I can't see her taking a political hit on something she doesn't particularly like.

[demwing]

66. I think shes always has been pro TPP

No switch will be required

[swhisper1]

68. absolutely

[Cobalt Violet]

69. Do bears shit in the woods?

Of course she will.

[tritsofme]

72. Yes, and she should publicly defend President Obama's trade agenda against Trumpian lies.

[Orsino]

73. You mean continue trianglating?

She might be sincere now in opposing the treaty she helped negotiate, but I'm not sure she's actually flipped yet. I'm interested in what she'll do about it, and in what we can demand she do instead.

[99Forever]

75. Switch positions?

You mean to actually opposing it, instead of just pretending to in public?

Not bloody likely.

[onecaliberal]

76. She supports it. She did when she was SOS, she did when she left office, and she does now.

It doesn't matter what she says.

[NorthCarolina]

77. It's "the Gold Standard" of trade agreements! -nt-

[stillwaiting]

79. Yep. Affirmative. It is how she rolls. Big Business seems to agree. nt

[karynnj]

80. No, but I do think that she will find a position that is neither a total "no" or "yes"

Unlike Sanders and many here who are 100% against all trade deals that have ever happened, Clinton is very much in the same position as Democrats - like her husband, Obama, Gore and Kerry that, even when they spoke of the problems in some trade agreements, have considered that, done better, trade deals could be a force for good.

I admit that I agree with that position and think that Sanders and others label the problems caused by globalization as having been caused by the trade deals. In fact, in the primaries, Sanders blamed the trade deal for the problems of Detroit. In fact, before the auto industry moved outside the US, it moved to the union hostile Southern states. In BOTH cases, you have companies chasing ever cheaper labor. Companies started to move manufacturing outside the US long before NAFTA.

As it is not illegal to move production (or as we all hear - service) outside the US. We can not fight it by high tariffs as would have been done a century ago. Retaliation would occur and US exports would suffer. In fact, with TPP, removal of trade barriers impacts the other countries more than the US because they currently have more trade barriers with regards to the US than we have for their products. Various people have spoken of the environmental and workers rights provisions that are stronger in this deal than any earlier one.

Given that companies will outsource if their is a clear economic advantage to doing so, the way to compete would be to rebuild American infrastructure and to fund education better. Both would help to make paying higher US wages part of what is a competitive alternative to outsourcing and incurring the various costs of managing something half way around the world and then having to ship back the product.

I would not be surprised if HRC said that TPP could be renegotiated and tweeked to be better for workers, here and abroad, and called for the supplementary bill that would provide resources for states and workers negatively impacted. I would be shocked if she called for no new trade bills and the elimination of the ones that exist.

[Octafish]

83. If all goes to plan, at 12:01 p.m. on Jan. 21, 2017.

With bells on.

[ChiciB1]

84. ABSOLUTELY!! I Would Bet Big Money On It! n/t

[azurnoir]

85. switch? oh you meant publicly well ya I do

[amborin]

86. she has always been 4 it:

She is a huge advocate of the TPP and would surely pass it as well as the even worse TTIP. When she witnessed public opinion being against TPP, she only said she was against it "as written."

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/120967/wall-street-pays-bankers-work-government-and-wants-it-secret

[Third Doctor]

88. Yes

[pdsimdars]

89. She's always been pro_TPP, except for these last few months when it was expedient to SAY

she was against it. But it's pretty certain she'll revert back, that's even what the head of the Chamber of Commerce said. (I think that's who said it)