2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumThe Democratic Primary Wasn’t Rigged = What to do about delusional supporters?
Last edited Fri Jun 17, 2016, 11:59 AM - Edit history (2)
I'm watching some friends descend into irrationality about this issue, allowing their wishful thinking to delude their reason. There are even election integrity activists going off the deep end. I'm not surprised when the same old ratfuckers chime in, it is their job to disrupt the Dems and suppress voting, but when otherwise rational people allow their emotions to dictate what they believe, I get concerned. Once you have destroyed your own credibility, what do you do then?
But now Clinton and Sanders supporters should unite on making it easier to vote.
By Ari Berman
Hillary Clinton won the Democratic presidential primary by 387 pledged delegates and 3.7 million votes.
Despite this large margin, some of Bernie Sanderss most strident supporters have attributed Clintons lead to foul play, alleging that the Democratic Partys nominating rules cost Sanders the nomination and the Clinton campaign deliberately suppressed pro-Bernie votes. These claims, which have circulated widely online, are false. My colleague Joshua Holland, who supports Sanders, has extensively debunked many of these conspiracy theories, but I want to add more detail now that the primary is over. (Ive been neutral throughout the race and do not endorse candidates.)
First off, the partys rules were not the deciding factor. Sanders has rejected the idea that the nomination was rigged but ......
...... the Clinton campaign did not intentionally try to suppress the votes of Sanders supporters. Some Sanders supporters point to Arizona, where there were five-hour lines in Phoenixs Maricopa County during the March 22 primary, as a glaring example of malfeasance. But those lines occurred because Republican clerk Helen Purcell cut the number of polling places from 200 in 2012 to just 60 in 2016a decision made possible by a 5-4 conservative majority on the Supreme Court gutting the Voting Rights Act and ruling that states like Arizona no longer had to approve their voting changes with the federal government.
Clinton strenuously criticized that decision and sued Arizona over the polling place closures, a lawsuit the Sanders campaign joined. .................
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)the people who claim the nomination was stolen from Sanders are beyond any kind of logical argument, either they cure themselves of the crazy or they just have to be written off.
eastwestdem
(1,220 posts)My idealistic 20-something self slowly realized that things definitely don't change over night in politics. It's a slow, incremental process...just how it was designed to be - for better or for worse.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)for those prone to political irrationality, especially if hostility toward "others" goes with it. They, more than most people, typically develop skewed basic frames of belief against which all new information is evaluated. They believe their basic frames implicitly, like the existence of gravity; thus anything that contradicts is "known" to be wrong, no need to check it out. Do you feel a need to read the articles you're referred to claiming that Hillary and the DNC colluded to steal the California primary or planned the Benghazi murders for some evil purpose? Well, they don't need to waste time reading garbage that denies what they know to be true either.
As for L.Coyote's what to do, nothing except try to protect those relationships cared about. Let them know you like and respect them (for those things you do), give a little twinkle while admitting that of course they already know you don't agree, shut your mouth firmly, and eventually subtly assist any chance segue off to something else. Hostile partisans (especially strong social conservatives and some far left radicals) will drop you as an enemy, and the rest will continue to accept you for your good points, as you do them.
At least that's what we do. Sadly for us, it just worked out that we've almost always lived in conservative communities. The "almost" is West Hollywood, and I'd move back there at the drop of a hat in preference to one of the most conservative counties in Georgia--if our kids were there.
If nothing else, we have gotten from it the understanding that even the most hostile conservatives can be truly wonderful people among and to those they consider their own. The trick is to keep the conversation on their own and away from outsiders while you're with them. What is moral can mean very different things to conservatives depending on whether it relates to "us" or "them," and the difference is anything from significant to absolutely huge so a lot depends on your ability to accept that even the "nicest" and most "highly principled" people can call for things like stealing elections (for their candidate) and genocide.
And if talking about conservative partisanship makes left-wing partisanship sound a bit less awful, well, I always felt if I had to spend eternity in a left or right-wing hell I'd definitely choose left wing.
anigbrowl
(13,889 posts)I was also much more of an idealist in my 20s, but not to the point of suspending my reason (and I suspect that you didn't reach that point either). On the other hand, when I'm talking to someone who is actively illogical experience has tuaght me not to be too optimistic about their future cognitive style.
Andy823
(11,495 posts)Go over to JPR, which most of them probably are already members of, and join in the bashing over there. Over their it's mandatory to say Hillary cheated to win, if they don't claim that they can be banned.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)start going at one another
anigbrowl
(13,889 posts)It hasn't been as daft as Hilleryis44 was 8 years ago but it sounds like its well on the way.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)There is little to be done , outside of counseling and psychotropic drugs, for those who break with reality, for any reason.
LoverOfLiberty
(1,438 posts)and they will get bored and leave.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)L. Coyote
(51,129 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)But whatever boats your float.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)A play on words lacking any substance! How adorable!
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)substantial
L. Coyote
(51,129 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)You must have some sort of oddball keyboard. Dvorak?