2016 Postmortem
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bigwillq
(72,790 posts)
Amaril
(1,267 posts)There! Problem fixed!
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)
cheapdate
(3,811 posts)but certainly better than the alternative, and that's good enough for me.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)Don't forget to check in at JPR.
MyNameGoesHere
(7,638 posts)Well,.. Bye.
Juicy_Bellows
(2,427 posts)A purge is unlikely. We're the gravy on their taters. Either way, be well. 
OKDem08
(1,340 posts)I understand & can relate to the sentiments though.
CaliforniaPeggy
(153,829 posts)I'm so sorry you're leaving.......and even sorrier that I never got to know you.
Your post really touched me.
Take care, and be well.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)I will not vote for Hillary. But I will mark on my paper ballot, a paper ballot that I fought to get, a mark next to the name of whoever is the Democratic Party nominee.
Then I will place it in the slot of the computerized counting machine to be counted by a possibly miscounting program that could actually turn my vote into a republican vote. I don't know and there is no way for me to know how it will be counted.
Were Bernie president already, and had been these last 3 1/2 years, I would have much more faith that my ballot would be counted exactly as cast because that could be done. As it stands, I have no faith.
President bush was placed into office via miscounted votes, so before anyone tells me I am a conspiracy theorist, I ask that you consider the facts and the history and join the real world in making sure our election system is never corrupted again.
Uncle Joe
(61,672 posts)
Fresh_Start
(11,353 posts)and eventually come to peace.
You say you see Sanders as your FDR, but I was never convinced he would accomplish anything.
This is not to say your views are invalid or that mine are better.
They are both personal views.
I am a person of integrity and I assume the same of you.
Nonetheless we are choosing different candidates.
Not because either of us have the ability to see the future.
We don't.
We are each trying very hard to do the right thing.
But our conclusions are different.
Nonetheless, if he had or does win the nomination, I will vote for your candidate.
Its not so much at I will choose to support your candidate...although he would have my vote.
Its that I'm choosing to support you and other people who chose Sanders.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)
ucrdem
(15,720 posts)Just did a jury by iphone while Waiting on a car repair but I hope the sadness subsides and everyone sticks around. And how could a grandma be cruella de wicked anyway? It was a very exciting primary but now it's over so stay tuned for good times ahead!
Response to ucrdem (Reply #12)
Post removed
CherokeeDem
(3,722 posts)choose... and I wish you well, I do take umbrage with one statement. Bernie Sanders is no FDR. Not even close....
Good luck to you in the future.
left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)I'm fan of (and have contributed $$$ to) Bernie Sanders, but I intend to stay to voice my thoughts and opinions on the Clinton versus Trump fight ahead.
And I find much here other than the day-to-day politics to keep me interested, and areas in which I can post (hopefully) something of interest to others.
But I'll not try to argue you into staying. It's your decision.
I'm sorry you feel DU has nothing to offer you but, if that's your decision, I wish you well.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)Then come back. We need to beat Trump
In November and I suspect deep down you know that.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Is your wife planning to vote against the "blood coming out of her wherever" guy who wants "some form of punishment" for women who have abortions, or is she also going to help Trump by sitting out the election?
swhisper1
(851 posts)
tblue37
(66,505 posts)I don't trust the media, the American voters, or the black box voting machines.
obamanut2012
(28,466 posts)He and the Nazis are buffons lolz -- what a fool! Then, they had a majority in the Parliament, then he became Chancellor, then h took over, that is how it is done.
He most certainly can win.
swhisper1
(851 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)"sit down and shut up" or "fall in line".
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/06/09/elizabeth-warren-hillary-clinton/85664500/
Now let's go beat Trump!
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)as you do in your other venues, so it should be fine.
Miles Archer
(19,199 posts)"I will not miss folks who can't conform to the rules or folks who wont vote for the Dem nominee."
That one right there.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)
djean111
(14,255 posts)Peace!
Jakes Progress
(11,212 posts)Sorry you are leaving. If you stayed and were open, you might grow past the need for saviors and magic men.
It is good that you will vote for down ballot Democrats. Hope that means more than just showing up at rallies and polls. If you want progressive principles more than you do a super star, there is a lot of work to be done.
swhisper1
(851 posts)Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)The poster is likely simply responding to programming and does not realize that voting for Hillary is voting for War, full on War, like in Iraq, only this time with Iran and possibly Syria (or the Russians over Syria or both).
They think this is a football game, and simply do not realize that millions of dead people are not just points on a scoreboard.
The rivers will run red with blood and they will say whatever they are programmed to believe, much like Bush programmed so many.
It is a shame so few equate real war and death with sporting events.
Of course, so few of them have seen it up close and only receive propaganda, propaganda that they actually believe, and that killing so many is so necessary, blame not the poster, the poster knows not what the cheering is for and believes the lies told to them. Blame the liar, the source of the coming further misery.
At the precise time viles will be shown and cable shows will be dedicated to "providing" proof killing millions over there will save lives here, when the truth is killing entire populations (indiscriminate of standings such as children and other civilians with cluster bombs) and depleted uranium. makes these terrorists that are less likely to harm them than their kitchen sink at the moment. They will keep killing indiscriminately for money and power until the threat actually grows severe in reality to us as we breed enough hatred with such tactics.
The neocons like Clinton (now new and improved with third way global neoliberalism) will have us all living as paupers and with a thousand fold more enemies than we do now.
It is not the fault of the poster, who actually believes the lies, it is the fault of the liar that will bring more wealth inequality, and certainly, new, very large multiple wars all while cutting programs that help the people with pre-determined "compromises" needed to pay for wars that cost a million to 1 dollars more to endeavor to achieve than a livable economy for the marks (AKA the 99.9% of us) that appear to be buying it hook line and sinker.
You are blaming the poster when the poster is thinking with a programmed mind - to believe up is down, war is peace, and poverty is wealth. The poster likely believes the programming as thoroughly as any Moonie convert and are thus not in a proper frame of mind to judge. Pity is more fitting such a brainwashed soul.
Only pity.
swhisper1
(851 posts)valid posts
Jakes Progress
(11,212 posts)Are you saying that party Democrats are the radicals? Strange view?
Pity won't get it done. Both sides of the primary fight have their high school football thinkers. Both need to stop looking for a savior and get busy.
Had Bernie won, I would have gritted my teeth and tried my best to help him get elected (though it would be a futile battle). He didn't win, Now get out there and give trump and those who think like he does a huge trouncing. Then run progressive candidates at local and state and congressional levels. If, by a miracle, Sanders would have been elected, he would have had even less success than Obama. Push Hillary left by filling government with true liberals. Otherwise, you support trump and his ideas.
840high
(17,196 posts)Jakes Progress
(11,212 posts)If you did, then you are an idiot. If you simply tried (awkwardly) to say so by implication and obfuscation, you are not being intellectually honest.
If you think that donald trump will end wars and bloodshed, you are foolish. If you think nominating the unvetted Sanders would keep trump from the white house, you are naive and uninformed.
I desire everything that Sanders campaigned for (except a free pass for gun manufacturers). I know though that Sanders can never be elected and that, even if he were, he would not manage to get a single one of his proposals effected. I know it is wonderful to imagine that a savior with a golden soul will make everything perfect for us, but that is childish and lazy. It takes work and time to move the government. It takes work and time to move the people to want the right things. You don't get them my yelling at people and self-righteously stamping your food and being stubborn. You have to have a plan.
A good plan is to elect more Democrats than republicans - many more. That will force the republicans left just as wins for republicans push Democrats right. Then with a majority, after trouncing republicans, we can primary the blue dogs in the mid terms. That will force the candidates left just as the tea party forced their candidates right. But that calls for a big embarrassing loss for republicans. Sitting home with a bruised ego and not voting will not move the country one step closer to what should be.
I would berate your desire to rant about war to someone who knows more about it than you, who has seen it close up (I've never been in the military). Seeing the reality of war will make you see the reality of politics. I can't treat myself to a pity party and puff up myself with a congratulatory back pat about how noble I am when that will mean more death and pain.
I would berate you for that gauche behavior, but I know you are the programmed soul. You only desire the quick fix that will not be and when you don't get it you lash out at more constructive efforts because they are not immediate. But I cannot even use the faux pity that you played with in your post. I can't pity you. That you refuse to see the world clearly is your fault.
I would suggest an Indigo Girls song for you: Hammer and Nail. You gotta do the work to get there. You can't wait for some manufactured savior to do it for you.
okieinpain
(9,397 posts)Jakes Progress
(11,212 posts)is not constructive.
What part of my reply indicates hate? It seems you bring to this forum a host of issues not related to what you are reading.
I don't hate you, but you seem to bear a great deal of animus toward me because I suggest we work together to elect more Democrats. You have checked the title of the forum haven't you?
TDale313
(7,822 posts)How fucking rude you guys are.
Amaril
(1,267 posts)You Hill people just can't help yourselves, can you. High school mean girls got nothing on you.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Way to GOTV
MisterP
(23,730 posts)than we've been led to believe!
Dem2
(8,178 posts)I assume you'll be back one way or the other.
Your face didn't need that old nose anyway. There, a wise crack seemed necessary. 
Silver_Witch
(1,820 posts)Amazing...just amazing.
kstewart33
(6,551 posts) Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Don't let the door....
Metric System
(6,048 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)
VOX
(22,976 posts)It'd be a lot easier to work toward a truly progressive future with a Democrat (however unpalatable you may find her) in office than it would be with an overtly fascist regime. Trump is THE kill-shot for this country.
At least think about it. For your kids, if nothing else.
Peace--
kgnu_fan
(3,021 posts)snort
(2,334 posts)Fuck that. I plan on getting banned.
NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)May your farts go far and wide, good citizen!
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)Is not the only one who cannot bow out gracefully. Birds of a feather and all...
RiverLover
(7,830 posts)Thank you for speaking for so many of us who feel exactly the same, but never could have said it so well.
(& May all of us FDR Democrats find a party to call home some day.)
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)FDR was as pragmatic a politician as we have ever seen. He pushed where he could and retreated and backtracked when necessary. Most of all he was the ultimate insider and could form coalitions with whoever would help him push his agenda. The one thing he was not was a one trick pony like Bernie.
Oh, and he schemed behind the scenes to prep us for a big ass war he wanted to get into. And that was before we knew the evil our enemies were.
You guys act like we Hillary voters are either evil republicans or rubes. Ever think we do not disagree with Bernie's points but think his history proves he is incapable of working on a team? I have always thought he is a ideologue who I generally considered dangerous. So yall run on over to JPR and learn what a true echo chamber sounds like. You will have a few hundred kindred souls.
Have a nice evening.
lancer78
(1,495 posts)Sanders is NO FDR, not even close. Instead of having fart-ins, Sanders supporters should be trying to get progressives elected to local and state offices.
BTW, what is JPR?
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)The free republic of the left. Although lately they have been overlapping a good bit.
Ever think you misjudged the hard core(not majority by any means) Bernie supporters and that site will make you glad they are not in the party. Bernie would never support the shit they talk over there. Misogyny out the ass and all the Limbaugh nick name for Hillary.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)Don't let the door...etc.
(You did say one right thing: "You are not going to miss me" so thanks for that!
PaulaFarrell
(1,236 posts)NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts) 840high
(17,196 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)
No, you should stick around.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)jamese777
(546 posts)The American Conservative Union rates every member of Congress on their yearly and lifetime voting record on issues of greatest interest to conservatives. A rating of 100 is a perfect conservatve voting record.
Hillary Clinton's lifetime ACU rating for her years in the Senate was 8.13%.
Bernie Sanders: 6.32%
Elizabeth Warren: 4%
Barack Obama: 10%
Marco Rubio: 97%
Rhiannon12866
(234,100 posts)Now I know why... 
BobSmith4152
(75 posts)
DCBob
(24,689 posts)And this is based on what you think were "suspicious primary results" and "dirty campaigning". I find that hard to believe. That makes no sense whatsoever. The Clintons have not changed.. they were always tough campaigners and pushed the envelope a bit. I dont see much of difference at all this campaign season versus 2008. If anything I would say Hillary was more reasonable and cautious with her words and actions. It sounds to me you simply bought into all the conspiracy theory nonsense due to your disappointment with your favorite candidate losing. Take another look after your disappointment settles.. I suspect you will see it another way.
athena
(4,187 posts)that this time, it's a woman running. The standards go through the roof when the candidate is female. What used to be just fine with a male candidate becomes unacceptable when the candidate is female.
This is the only way I can make sense of this irrational hatred some people seem to feel toward Hillary. It's extremely sad.
840high
(17,196 posts)are full of it.
athena
(4,187 posts)If she were, she would be deemed "ambitious" and self-centered and centrist.
This is such a weak "argument" that I'm surprised Bernie supporters think they're fooling anyone with it.
840high
(17,196 posts)what you think. The sexism thing gets old.
lancer78
(1,495 posts)of "The Little Boy Who Cried Wolf"? The sexism card is worn out by HRC supporters.
obamanut2012
(28,466 posts)MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)Not everybody sees things from inside the bubble. Some of us actually know what the rest of America is like.
You should get out more.
Samantha
(9,314 posts)Take a break until after the election. Once that occurs, DU will revert to being its old self again. Then you can come back and rejoin your friends.
Or you can stay and avoid the political discussions. Visit the other interesting forums here and check out the latest breaking news. You can find other outlets to continue supporting Sanders while you are taking your political hiatus here.
I have been here in since 2001 and DU has gotten me through a lot of tough times. There is a network of wonderful people here who make DU a special place, and they will continue to do that after the election.
Just think about it, because there are other options to leaving permanently. I hope to see you around.
Sam
seabeckind
(1,957 posts)Long ago I saw the direction the country was going to take with Reagan. And so many of my fellow "democrats" happily jumped on his bandwagon looking for an easy solution to the situations which scared them. Needed a daddy.
Carter tried to make them be grownups. Didn't work.
Tho I went with Bill in 92, Perot made a lot of sense. By 2000 the country had rebounded some, not because of Bill but because of some tech stuff that gave him a nice wave to ride on.
Glass-Steagal changed my mind about him. That business with the intern was pretty crass.
The IWR turned me against Hillary. All the email stuff, her lack of security planning, etc. At that point I was absolutely certain that if she wasn't the one screwing up she had surrounded herself with real morons.
I worked my ass off for Obama. Thought it was another new deal. Turned out to be a bum deal.
I really believe Bernie is the real deal. I think his not making it was another bum deal. Hillary didn't win those early primaries... they were handed to her by the DNC who prechose our choice.
So, back to lurking until the next time.
Peace.
snot
(11,041 posts)elsewhere! 
XRubicon
(2,241 posts)The Reagan quote really summed you up.
Goodbye now.
mythology
(9,527 posts)The rules here can't tell you who to vote for in the presidential (or any other race), merely that you can't disparage the Democratic nominee for an office. As you noted there are down ticket races that you will be voting for. Why not stay here to advocate for those and steer clear of the presidential race posts?
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)I think you'll know where to post and if not, PM me. It's no longer the incremental happy days of DU, sad to say.
LonePirate
(14,083 posts)Seems like a higher than usual number. I'm sure most of them will feel right at home now at JPR now that it is little more than a Hillary hate site.
chwaliszewski
(1,528 posts)I will be writing in Bernie on my WA state ballot.
senseandsensibility
(22,055 posts)We need you on DU.
YouDig
(2,280 posts)
jcgoldie
(12,046 posts)You need to make it shorter if you want it on your tombstone. How ridiculous.
marlakay
(12,385 posts)The party has changed so have I, I live in Cali so it won't hurt anyway if I don't vote for her but for once in my life I can't vote just because she is less evil than Trump or supreme court.
I will check in here once in awhile but won't be writing much.
840high
(17,196 posts)might be my last election at my age. I'm going to do the right thing for once.
BobSmith4152
(75 posts)Council's best move was "leading" us our of the Union Halls where we belonged and into the corporate boardrooms. "Triangulating" our way into what would become, well what we are today, I guess.
Bernie was the first shot in my adult life to bring my party back, not just to FDR's "New Deal" or "Second Bill of Rights" but back to LBJ's "Great Society." A cranky old Jewish Democratic Socialist reminded the Democratic Party about this guy
“We had to struggle with the old enemies of peace—business and financial monopoly, speculation, reckless banking, class antagonism, sectionalism, war profiteering.
They had begun to consider the Government of the United States as a mere appendage to their own affairs. We know now that Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob.
Never before in all our history have these forces been so united against one candidate as they stand today. They are unanimous in their hate for me—and I welcome their hatred.”
― Franklin D. Roosevelt
I'll be 60 in a few years myself. I doubt I'll live to see a chance like this again
still_one
(98,591 posts)would interfere with anyone praising someone who isn't the nominee
jalan48
(14,875 posts) realmirage
(2,117 posts)Because you're feeling your mortality and you want to finally get real pure. What that means is you won't compromise anymore, and the effect of that is you're deciding to leave this world a worse place for your kid, rather than climbing the mountain one step at a time, never letting everyone slide all the way back to the bottom in order to protect your inner feeling of purity and pride. You want it all now before you're too old, and if you can't have it, you'll let it all burn. And it is our children that will pay for it.
WAKE UP
enid602
(9,344 posts)Oh swell. Another digital self immolation thread. Quite the rage this weekend.
840high
(17,196 posts)
robbedvoter
(28,290 posts)If it's in 4 digits, leaving with great pomp - as if they've been here for a lifetime.
masmdu
(2,609 posts)
BainsBane
(55,974 posts)But don't pretend your decision to do so has anything to do with Hillary not being progressive or liberal enough. The choice between the two parties and candidates couldn't be starker. Clearly you have decided that you prefer the kind of America Trump seeks to implement. To refuse to vote for Clinton entails a decision that you are willing to see Trump as President.
I'm sorry you care so little about policy. If you did, you would discover Hillary abnd Bernie aren't so far apart on what they propose. Their chief differences lie in experience, seriousness and depth of proposals, and in the demographics of their support base, and I suspect it is the later that had moved you toward tacit approval of Trump.
You voted for Bill twice but can't vote for Hillary, who is clearly to the left of Bill, it's pretty obvious what your problem with her is, and it has nothing to do with policy. You don't even make an effort to point to any policy differences because the fact is you can't. My guess is that like many hard core Bernie supporters you may not have even looked at her policy positions and have chosen instead to operate based on media memes and conclusions based on attacks leveled by her political opponents.
obamanut2012
(28,466 posts)brer cat
(26,930 posts)You hit the nail on the head.
glennward
(989 posts)That's the history I remember.
struggle4progress
(123,159 posts)We know what happened next
Don't let it happen here
obamanut2012
(28,466 posts)And could easily happen here, the exact same way.
obamanut2012
(28,466 posts)
lostnfound
(16,960 posts)I sympathize with your perspective, am about the same age and feel similarly.
What gets me is when I think about four or eight years of a hawkish wall-street friendly president who inevitably throws social security under the bus and probably a lot of other progressive ideas along with it, if the Main Street economy is stumbling and wars continue to sap the hope out of the dream, will it make a difference if there's a D or an R after the name? One difference it will ale is the alliance with the congress -- not only which party will be strengthened, but which BRANCH of the party. You dance with them that brung ya.
Trump sucks and is a menace. Congratulations, powers that be, for finding a candidate scary enough to persuade millions to vote AGAINST him. Even some GOP will vote against him.
Flashback/blowback. It's a little hard to predict the consequences. I fear the empowerment and rise of brownshirts, but I also fear that democratic ideals will be extinguished after decades of being suppressed. When I look at Sherrod Browne and Howard Dean now, and others, I am reminded of invasion of the body snatchers. Idealism being dealt a death blow as corporate power continues to consolidate its control.
These are dangerous times. I read a book "Readin Loliita in Tehran" and others that talk about the rise of fundamentalist right when political instability creates an opening.
Sadly, I want to know what war stocks to buy. Not to improve my own standard of living, but because I know MANY of my friends and family who are already struggling are going to need my help, as social security is starved and healthcare costs are not addressed and wages continue their downward spiral. I feel hopeless about the economic future for the 99%.. Or at least for the 80%.
Do I want a split in the GOP ? Hell yes. Do I want a split in the Dems? Tough question. Not really; what I wanted was an FDR Dem to take the lead for a while. Since that isn't happening, its obvious that my participation in politics is worthless anyway, so why not concentrate on my own personal circumstances which will need to be reinforced, because the aging people in my life with serious developing medical issues are going to need all the help they can get. The progressive ideas that watering the roots of our economy by actually expanding social security and raising minimum wage aren't going to be given airtime in the next administration. That seems certain.
okieinpain
(9,397 posts)
nolabear
(43,693 posts)I don't get it. How does anything get solved if opposing parties just plant their feet, turn their heads and refuse to participate if they don't get everything they want? How does intolerance create change?
GardeningGal
(2,211 posts)You expressed it much better than I would have been able.