Dear Clinton, you want to lose ground with your base, then pick Vilsack or Kaine

[stupidicus]

that Kos guy sometimes displays a real flair for the obvious, doesn't he?

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/7/21/1550526/-Dear-Clinton-you-want-to-lose-ground-with-your-base-then-pick-Vilsack-or-Kaine

someone should tell him to quit refighting the primary, no?

[CrowCityDem]

1. Her base will be fine with whoever she decides on. The sqeamish aren't her base.

[awake]

41. It is no longer about "Her Base"

it is about expanding her base to bring in as many voters as we can get

[CrowCityDem]

49. Progressives should be on board anyway, so expanding right makes sense.

[awake]

51. In my mind Hillary is far enough to the right

[CrowCityDem]

58. Since she's solidly left of center, the middle may not agree.

[yurbud]

71. that's how DLC makes races unnecessarily close & keeps losing congress to

a party that is essentially Charles Manson with better hygiene.

[CrowCityDem]

74. Where is the evidence that far left candidates can win national elections?

[MFM008]

2. I'll be disappointed

But not enough to not vote for her.

[stupidicus]

19. lol

[MoonRiver]

81. And that's funny, because?

[stupidicus]

105. figure it out for yourself

[Her Sister]

3. Dear Hillary am part of your base, voted for you! I trust you-the nominee-to pick your running mate!

[tonyt53]

15. Same here!!!

[MoonRiver]

82. Ditto!

[NCTraveler]

4. Not sure I understand your comment about the primary.

Your link doesn't appear to be about the primaries.

[mcar]

5. This portion of the base trusts our nominee

[Lil Missy]

6. Her base is behind her 100%, no matter who she picks.

[still_one]

7. I am sure you are concerned, just like you were when posting links from R/W sites against Hillary

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251992133

[stupidicus]

106. indeed, like the kind I lack with your effort here

[MichiganVote]

8. You know, somehow I don't think the Secretary has picked you to listen to.

I'm sure its a crush for you to realize that, but there are other things on candidates minds that this place, collective opinions or your opinion in particular. But for what its worth, every Dem I have spoke with is good with either Vilsack or Kaine.

[MichiganVote]

11. Well thank you for that quick response but I did not claim to have a list dear

And I am not in the habit of posting individual names without their permission despite your seductive plea to do so.

Sorry darling, brush up on the charm some honey.

[MichiganVote]

16. You're welcome. Good luck with your friendship making lessons.

[TwilightZone]

14. Why would ask for specific, detailed personal information of voters?

This is a rather odd request. That personal information would seem to be none of your business.

[MichiganVote]

17. Let him go, must have had a bad convention..er day.

[Her Sister]

20. lol!

[Android3.14]

31. Ha!

I love an effective, concise and considered response.

I can usually stomach the folks who prefer wearing rose colored glasses, but when they want to bolt them to other people's heads, I draw the line.

[stupidicus]

24. your anecdotal evidence is worthless to me

that they would approve of another WS supporter taking over in the event she's unable to lead is a given for the thirdway/centrist types

[MichiganVote]

28. Ok, then don't read it. Cuz' no one here really cares anyway.

edited to take out a repetitive word.

[Bluenorthwest]

30. Every Democrat I know can't stand Kaine becuase of his anti gay history

He'd be a huge drag on the ticket in the West, nothing but pure unadulterated stage weight. A millstone.

[annavictorious]

50. What anti-gay history?

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

77. Vilsack may be a bit divisive. Why? What he did to Shirley Sherrod. I don't like him. At all.

[MichiganVote]

79. Then I would say you need to let the Clinton camp know of your concerns.

[MichiganVote]

92. Oh dear, not sure how that's possible.

[Thrill]

10. No one goes that crazy about a VP pick

stop it

[stupidicus]

21. no

[Arizona Roadrunner]

12. Sorry, but the name of the game is to expand your base not just keep it

Frankly, if Clinton wants to win the election (not sure Bill really wants her to win when he favors Kaine who wants do deregulate the banksters), then she has to expand her base. Her base is essentially corporate Dems. If she thinks that she wants to pick up Republicans who aren't happy with Trump, she will probably pick a corporatist for VP. However, if she wants to expand her base in the Democratic party and be able to govern, she better expand her base by including more progressive voters. Frankly, the only person I see helping her expand and have enthusiasm for voting is Warren. The rest are going to be "drags" regarding getting the vote out.

[CobaltBlue]

18. Arizona Roadrunner—+1

Give the first First Gentleman—just like with the tradition for a First Lady—a cause.

[stupidicus]

22. yep

and to a lesser extent, Al Franken

[okasha]

61. Hillary's base--the Democratic base--

consists of women, people of color, LGBT's and union workers. She has us solid.

Your attitude is every bit as elitist as Trump's. Thanks for kicking us to the curb.

[treestar]

67. Expand the votes

The base are the ones who can be counted on.

[Cobalt Violet]

101. a corporatist is a deal breaker for me.

I don't live in a swing state thankfully. I think she is underestimating the disgust that many progressive feel toward corporatist.

[CajunBlazer]

23. VP picks are about three things

1) He/she has to be someone that the nominee can work with
2) He/she has to be someone who can step in and be President day one if necessary
3) He/she has to contribute to the nominee winning and this time around, Democrats taking over the Senate - Supreme Court appointments being a prime issue this time around

If multiple candidates satisfy the first two requirements and satisfying the third means picking someone who can solidify her base, so be it. If that means picking someone to bring in other voters, so be it. If that means not picking someone because doing so means a Republican Governor gets to pick his/her replacement in the Senate, so be it. Whatever it takes to win the White House and the Senate, so be it.

What picking a a VP is not about is picking your favorite candidate. If picking the "wrong" VP (in your opinion) means you or others like you will go vote third party or not vote at all, then we don't give a damn what you think anyway.

[stupidicus]

27. and?

the whole point the Kos dude is making is that they'll diminish support #"3", and likely particularly those expected ftom BS supporters already holding their noses.

[CajunBlazer]

40. If that's what it takes to win, fine, but....

... most Sanders supporters have come over to Hillary's side quicker that Hillary voters came over to Obama, so that might not be the way to get the most votes. If they are already holding their noses for Clinton, they won't be able to smell her VP pick.

[stupidicus]

48. sure they will

given that a pro-wall street pick will only reaffirm their suspicions that they've not been heard and have been kicked to the curb.

maybe you should go over and give Kos an education on the whys behind vp picks, etc, and how totally innocuous and irrelevant they are, no?

[CajunBlazer]

59. Pehaps they should understand that "they" may not be the key to victory

And "victory" is what is important, not some people's feelings. There are four types of Sanders voters:

1) Those who switched to Hillary just as quickly as I switch from Clinton to Obama in 2008. This is the vast majority according to all polling.

2) Those who will not vote for Hillary under any circumstances.

3) Those who will hold their noses and vote for Clinton regardless of her VP pick because they know their believe system will be systematically kicked to the curb in a Trump Presidency.

4) Those who might be be swayed depending on who Hillary picks as her VP

Only those in the 4th category will be given any weight in Hillary's VP decision. I personally think that those people are extremely shallow in their thinking, but the the first two criteria are met in a VP pick that will satisfy those people and they will give Hillary the most extra votes, so be it. However, if she can get more votes with another pick, so be it, and too bad for those extremely shallow people.

If Hillary doesn't win, it won't matter who her VP pick is.

[stupidicus]

66. good grief

go tell it to all the "shallow thinkers" you find on this page https://www.google.com/search?q=Kaine+vp+pick&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

the "shallow thinkers" are the ones still unaware that the dem voters are increasingly aware of the many deleterious effects of the corporatist leadership "winning" has gotten us.

You seem to be alleging/contending that there will be no measurable or significant diff in the results from a Kaine v Warren pick.

Give us a top post making that case eh, because we're pretty much done here.

[CajunBlazer]

70. If those shallow people who will vote based on a VP pick are numerous enough....

... to spell difference between winning and losing the election, they will be catered to.

However, if for example it is more important to pick a VP from swing state in order to win, well screw the shallow people.

And by the way, decisions like this are not based on how many people are bitching on some web site.

[stupidicus]

78. nobody has anything but a guesstimation

but based on the number of groups and whatnot "bitching", it's likely sizable.

And by the way, look what just showed up

Clinton “wants somebody who will be a reliable partner she can trust and make the policy decisions” and potentially step into the presidency, the source said, adding that Clinton sees Kaine as someone who would “fit that bill.”

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/07/clinton-under-pressure-to-pick-running-mate-who-will-fight-wall-street-and-tpp/

sound familiar?

it doesn't appear as if she'll be "catering" to anyone (in terms of the vp pick) but those she long has to already, but we'll see tomorrow. http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512272010

[CajunBlazer]

97. As far as I am concerned, she can pick anyone she damn well pleases

I am big supporter of Hillary Clinton, as I was for Barack Obama, with my moral support, with my enthusiasm, with my time, with my money, and with my vote, but she owes me nothing but her best efforts to become elected. I am voting for her because it is my interest to do so. It is in your best interests as well, but I respect your choice if you disagree.

She owes even less than nothing to those who didn't vote for her in the primaries and won't vote for her in the general election unless she chooses their favorite for her VP. If she is elected without their support, they can kiss their "revolution" goodby because the Democratic Party will come to understand that their votes are not needed to be victorious in the future.

If they vote for a totally unqualified Green Party candidate and thus cause a totally unstable Donald Trump to win the White House, over the next miserable four years the burden of the Democratic defeat will squarely fall on their shoulders. They will convince themselves that it was not their fault, that they wire just "voting their conscience", but everyone will know where the blame lies. They will know that those voters selfishly put their "ideals" over the needs of the defenseless who will be most hurt by a Trump Presidency. And the Green Party will be dealt a fatal blow, because "third parties are like bees, when they sting, they die".

[CentralMass]

102. Kaine , IMO, is not a good pick.

Here is an article on him.

Http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/07/clinton-vp-favorite-pushes-for-bank-deregulation.html

Many of us Democrats have had enough.. Ksine is a tone deaf pick. The last thing we need is to allow the banks to go through another round of predatory or risky lending.

A pro-bank deregulation VP demotivates ne from punching the top of the ticket when I go to the booth in November.

[CajunBlazer]

103. Of course you realize that a VP does not set policy

He will do as he is told - period, end of conversation.

[Squinch]

57. Yes, but the Republican National Convention has.

[NurseJackie]

25. This is weird. It appears that "the base" means different things to different people.

I consider myself to be part of "the base" and I'll be perfectly happy with whomever she chooses. It's HER choice, so no matter who it is, it's the right choice for her. She's or nominee, this is her campaign, she's running as she thinks best. I trust Hillary.

[ibegurpard]

32. lol

[CajunBlazer]

33. To some people the "base" is only those on far left

Even though there are plenty of indicators that they they are a small minority of the Party. Maybe the argument is that only the politically pure can be part of the base.

[treestar]

64. and it cannot be counted on, this very post

shows this: the base is the people that can be counted on, not the people threatening to abandon the party over the Veep Pic.

[NurseJackie]

39. Oh, GMAFB! You're suggesting that the "Clinton base" lacks those characteristics. That's offensive.

The primary is over, Android3.14. Time to stop with the broad-brush smears, please.

[annavictorious]

62. Critical thinking skills

Is another self important buzz term of the newly minted. I trust Hillary's "critical thinking skills" instilled at the finest law school in the country and honed over a lifetime of experience.

[Silver_Witch]

54. Like your attitude

[treestar]

65. The Clinton base is the Democratic party

stalwarts who would support a ham sandwich if it was the Dem nominee. Logic fail to create these categories. The Bernie base is not the Dem base in that they represent a minority and often threaten to not vote, this very post is another example. Don't pick a Veep we like and we go. That's not the party's base. The party's base are the people that supported Clinton and still do and still would whoever the VP is.

[CajunBlazer]

69. What make you think you and others like you are the base of the party?

Every poll I have every seen shows that progressive people are a minority in the Democratic, far outnumbered by moderates and conservatives combined. Who made you guys the base of the Democratic Party.? How can a minority of people claim to be the base of anything.

In addition, are all progressives part of the base, or only very progressive people included. I ask because it seems only very progressive people are making your argument. If only very progressive people are included in the base of the party, that is small minority of Democratic voters, and many of them no longer claim to be Democrats.

So it think that it is time for you and yours to quit claiming a title that you don't deserve.

[MoonRiver]

83. +1000

Getting tired of this self-righteous crap.

[GulfCoast66]

99. The 'concerned' people here

Talking about making the base happy are Bernie supporters. A few of them are not going to vote for Hillary but cannot say that here since they will banned.

Instead they are going to be doom and gloom until the GE.

The fact is that someone on the left of the political spectrum who has not already decided to vote for Hillary will not be doing so no matter her VP pick.

[stupidicus]

29. apparently that is so to some extent

the more enamored ones aren't discouraged over much of anything it seems.

To me the VP pick is a showing in a big way of who and what you want to take over when you're no longer able or available for the job

[Bluenorthwest]

35. That's the great thing about the easily please very ardent supporters, their opinions do

not matter much because they will affect support of anything the candidate supports. Not only does it make them a moot element in discussions it also quickly separates them from the candidate's actual objectives. Obama's very ardent supporters were aggressively certain he'd never endorse marriage equality and they were posting about that the day he endorsed it. They had no idea what he was really doing because they were too busy trying to agree with him at all times. They are the chorus, and their part is a set piece.

[BobbyDrake]

55. ROFL @ the irony of this comment.

Thank you for this laugh.

[CajunBlazer]

38. Huh?????

"To me the VP pick is a showing in a big way of who and what you want to take over when you're no longer able or available for the job"

No one plans to die on the job!

You have very narrow understanding of why VP's are picked. For instance, do you think Kennedy picked Johnson for that reason. No, he was much younger than Johnson, so it wasn't because he planned to die in office. He picked Johnson for two reasons - 1. He wanted to win (first and foremost) 2. He wanted Johnson to ramrod his plans through Congress.

See my three reasons for picking a VP above.

[stupidicus]

42. no, you just assume a great deal

I need an education from you on the matter like I do say, the diff between the Sicilian and French defense

[B Calm]

34. If she wants to unite the party, Warren seems like the logical choice!

[stupidicus]

45. yep

and as I noted above, Al Franken might be a good second choice if not her.

[ibegurpard]

37. Although VP is a largely ineffectual position

Her choice will indicate to me where her loyalties lie. Not that I have much doubt anyway.

[NurseJackie]

43. Did you intend to sound so cynical? What do "loyalties" have to do with anything?

She'll make her choice based on who will be qualified for the position and who will make a good partner.

The way you phrased things, it almost seems as if you believe her VP choice will be a "reward" of some kind for services rendered. (Or did you have something else in mind?)

[ibegurpard]

46. your opinion is utterly irrelevant to me

[NurseJackie]

47. Ha!! :-D

[ibegurpard]

88. Did someone

Once mistakenly give you the impression that you were either witty or amusing?

[NurseJackie]

100. No. They've all been correct. You're the only one who thinks differently. :-P So, tell me...

... why are you trying to make this personal now? Other than my having supporting Hillary, and other my than asking you to clarify whether you intended for your earlier post to sound so cynical... what have I done to offend you? Why all the hostility toward me personally?



#FeelTheUnityEventually

[stupidicus]

44. exactly

as it will for most not blinded by the ....

[pnwmom]

85. Then she should pick Vilsack. They have a relationship going back to when she

was working on the Watergate committee.

And he gets bonus points for being the very popular Governor of an important swing state, and for a position -- Ag Sec -- which has allowed him to travel around the world.

He is also someone with special awareness of rural voters and the problems of drug and alcohol addiction.

But his biggest strength , to me, is his personal story. He clearly appears to be white but doesn't know anything about his ethnic background. He wasn't born with a silver spoon in his mouth. He was born in an orphanage, where he had a name tag that said "Kenneth" around his wrist -- until he was finally adopted as a toddler. His mother was an alcoholic and a drug addict, and left the family when the boy was 13. Both his adopted parents died by the age of 57.

He is a man whose caring and sense of purpose comes from his own early challenges. I think if he is the VP America will quickly warm up to him.

[ibegurpard]

91. Better than Kaine

A useless former DNC chair.

[oasis]

52. Hillary's got this no matter who gets the VP slot. nt

[Eric J in MN]

56. Kos isn't pro-Sanders.

He's not concern-trolling. His post reflects real concern about how small donors would react to a corporatist VP nominee.

[stupidicus]

60. you know it

as well as who will be on the scapegoating list should one be needed

[CajunBlazer]

75. His concern is noted

But unimportant in the big scheme of things.

How many people are so shallow that their level of contributions, or whether they will contribute at all, will depend on a VP pick? How many people will ignore what is really important in this race, like securing the Supreme Court, health care, corporate regulations, Social Security, etc. etc. because they are more concerned who got picked to be Hillary's VP? Are that many people be so irrational that they will base their vote on whether their favorite candidate was picked to be the VP or not?

You know, those people who are so lack enthusiasm for the Democratic nominee that a VP pick matters, they aren't planning to on contributing anyway.

[treestar]

63. The base is those who can be counted on

to stay in no matter what other Democrat is picked to be the running mate.

[NurseJackie]

68. Thank you! You're absolutely correct.

But, according to some (in this very thread) people who match your description are the ones who "lack critical thinking skills". I guess the primary-mode continues for some.

[yurbud]

72. you should post this as a poll

[yurbud]

73. if she picks one of those guys, it will be a big year for Greens

[CajunBlazer]

76. I don't think there are that many stupid people

[yurbud]

93. were the people who voted for Abe Lincoln stupid?

Republicans had never won the White House before that and he was only their second presidential candidate.

[CajunBlazer]

104. No, the people who voted for Lincoln were not stupid - they were in the majority

Comparing the Green Party to the early Republican Party: That is an extremely unflattering comparison for the Green Party.

With the implosion of the Wigg Party, the Republican Party almost instantly became the country's second major party. Not only did they elect their second candidate, Abe Lincoln, to the White House, their first candidate, John C. Frémont of California won 33.13% of the popular vote, carried 11 out of 31 states, and racked up 114 electoral college votes of of 296 (38.5%).

The Green Party has been around since 1984, but has always been a fringe third party at best. It first show up in the Presidential voting statistic for the 1996 election when Ralph Nader won 0.71% of the national general election vote. The high mark for the Green Party in Presidential elections came in 2000 when Ralph Nader won 2.71% of the popular vote. Since then it has been all down hill for hill for the Green Party with Jill Stein picking up just 0.36% of the popular vote in 2012. In it's 22 year history the Green Party Presidential candidates have have never won a single state and have won zero electoral votes.

In addition the current Green Party candidate, Jill Stein, is totally unqualified to be President of the United States. Stein has never run anything bigger than her medical practice and she probably had a office manager to do that for her. The highest political office she has ever held was one of 28 Representatives to the Town Meeting in tiny home town of 34K residents. (That just one job up from dog catcher.) If Jill Stein is the best candidate the Green Party can nominate for President, they are in deep and serious trouble.

[stupidicus]

80. I think it's gonna be regardless

just based on the fact that they are the most unpopular cadidates ever...

[pnwmom]

90. Vilsack completed his second term with 69% approval. That's a strange definition of unpopular.

But if you're talking about that crappy push-poll of some Bernie delegates, you can take that poll and flush it down the toilet.

Crap in, crap out. That's how push-polls work.

[pnwmom]

89. Two great Democratic governors. No reason either of those picks should help the Greens. n/t

[pnwmom]

84. I'm part of the base. My whole family is. And none of us will desert her because of her choice

for VP.

[0rganism]

87. i think HRC is more aware of the pros and cons of any VP pick than any pundit

i trust her to be on top of this kind of thing, anyone she picks will compliment her candidacy in a way she finds appropriate

granted, she's had a disturbing habit of unforced errors and self-induced foot wounds, but at some point, you gotta stop fretting and just kick back to see what the candidates come up with

[Demsrule86]

94. Yes they should tell many that.

[B Calm]

95. When Al Gore selected his running mate I thought he knows better than I.

[RBInMaine]

96. BULLSHIT ! BULLSHIT ! BULLSHIT ! The "base" will be with her FIRMLY. Enough of the CRAP.

[DawgHouse]

98. I am her base and I trust her decision, whomever she chooses.