2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumI supported Bernie in the primary...I support unity now...
Their needs to be respect from both wings of the party.
frazzled
(18,402 posts)Even when we complained about the bad behavior of many Sanders supporters, it was dismissed and laughed at. You voted for these disruptors. I know you are sincere when you say you want unity, but I think you also need to accept your role in the affair.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)There was no way of knowing who would be a disruptor, and this doesn't delegitimize the Sanders campaign or the Sanders movement.
I condemn the disrupters and Bernie told them to stop.
But it would have been a tragedy if Bernie hadn't been a candidate.
We'd probably be losing to Trump by fifteen points if HRC had been unopposed.
frazzled
(18,402 posts)But you, and Sanders, should have fought vocally and strongly from the very beginning against the swarms of hooligans who were at the core of pushing the campaign forward. That never happened. It was tolerated, even encouraged. It's too late now, and there will be no appeasing them. They were told it's a revolution, that the convention would be contested, that Hillary Clinton was a criminal abettor of Wall Street and worse than any Republican.
And no, you're still dead wrong about pushing Hillary to the left being the savior of her campaign. Will the egotism never end? There is no left left enough for these delegates (who are not true leftists, but rather anarchic libertarian Assange lovers who revel in disruption of any kind, who mistrust government and create bogeymen to whip up unsuspecting others). It's the disaffected centrists that need to be won over: they are the ones most susceptible to Trumpism.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)They are mainly looking for someone who seems like she has a plan.
They aren't going to be won over by telling the left to go Cheney itself. No one would be impressed by HRC moving further right after the convention. "Sistah Souljah" moments don't work anymore.
There aren't any issues on which a Dem candidate could appease potential xenophobes or Islamaphobics and still be a Democrat after doing so, anyway.
RAFisher
(466 posts)They should have picked me. I'm not an asshole. I find this shit disgusting.
Squinch
(50,989 posts)Not like the assholes and fucking morons.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Something along the lines of: "... and that's why the Bernie delegates should be allowed to get it out of their system. It's all harmless fun. They're just over-excited. The Hillary wing needs to show them some respect and set a good example."
Or any of the other assorted excuses, and "both sides do it" justifications that I've read today.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)I called for unity.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)With a variation of the "both sides are at fault" nonsense. Only one group is disrupting the convention.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)What matters is that I called for unity. I don't condone the protests in the hall today...they serve no purpose.
I don't understand, though, why the Clinton-Kaine campaign couldn't have just held off announcing DWS' hiring until after the convention. What was the rush? That couldn't have kept until the delegates went home?
Does it make sense to you that they would hurry that through?
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Clearly, that group was given more credit than they deserve.
Lesson learned, I guess.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Some of this might have been prevented if some HRC supporters hadn't spent the last year acting like Bernie had no business running, falsely accusing him and his supporters of indifference to bigotry(we were NEVER a campaign that cared only about economic issues and we did try to get POC support)and of being an anti-Democratic cabal, and then spent the last month and a half demanding that Bernie suspend his campaign even though it was enough that he wasn't campaigning against her anymore). Some of you thought we shouldn't even have tried to influence the platform. It was relentless and it was unspeakably vicuous. You could have won by sticking to the issues.
The people on the floor shouldn't have taken the bait...but it's also true that they should never have been baited.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)No matter how you try to shift the blame ... these individuals make their own immature decisions.
And do you REALLY want to re-hash the campaign? Is that you "excuse" and justification for their childish behavior today? "Unspeakably vicious" ?? Good lord!
So they're bitter over the pointed and critical treatment Bernie received during the campaign ... and even then it was NOTHING compared to what Bernie would have received as the nominee.
You know as well as anyone that if it hadn't been this, it would have been something else. What we've got here are a bunch of tipsy, angry and bitter SORE LOSERS.
Nobody will ever take the "Bernie Revolution" seriously again. This is the last stop. Their final "hurrah". (Maybe they're actually doing us a favor.)
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Just electing Dem politicians by itself isn't enough.
There has to be a perpetual mass movement to make them do the right things.
The forced demobilization of the Obama movement as soon as the votes were in proves this.
If Rahm hadn't told the movement to stop, the Republican Congress would never have been elected.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... understand that their immature disrespectful stunts aren't the way to earn respect and to be taken seriously. Turning the Democratic convention into OWS is short sighted and doomed to failure.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Tell me this...I agree with you that the outbursts should not have happened, but why couldn't HRC's campaign just have waited until the convention was over to announce the hiring of DWS? What harm could possibly have come of having a cooling-off period before they sprung that on people?
Would it have been asking too much not to do something they knew would be more provocative than anything else they could possibly have done this week?
Why take the risk?
If they had announced if next week, none of this would have happened.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... where I comment "lesson learned"and repeat the exchange over and over. (What fun!)Their only mistake was in giving the Bernie folks too much credit. In reality they're just a bunch of big babies.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)You can't fairly characterize the Sanders movement overall that way.
And your candidate can't win in the fall if she spends the week doing things like this.
You need us...we need you.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Hilary will be fine. You overestimate the importance of the dedicated haters.
Doctor Jack
(3,072 posts)If someone says they voted for Sanders but are now all for unity and helping Clinton win, maybe don't tell them to fuck off. We need a united democratic party in November. Yes, a small minority of Sanders supporters are not on the same page and are being very loud about it but let's not push more people over to them by saying "thanks but no thanks, now don't let the door hit you on the way out."
Cooler heads will prevail, they always do.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Doctor Jack
(3,072 posts)Maybe someone should send some ice cream and lemonade to the convention.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Stuart G
(38,439 posts)LostOne4Ever
(9,290 posts)[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=#00009d]Thank you for making this thread![/font]
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)apcalc
(4,465 posts)RazBerryBeret
(3,075 posts)there are assholes everywhere.
David__77
(23,456 posts)That said, I believe I get your meaning.