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helpisontheway

(5,008 posts)
Fri Aug 5, 2016, 06:17 AM Aug 2016

What month did they swiftboat John Kerry?

I remember that Kerry did not respond in the very beginning. Then by the time he did respond many people had already made their minds up. Was it during late summer or in the Fall? Just wondering if it is possible for Trump to convince voters that he is qualified. Or has the Clinton campaign already defined him? I just hope many of the people won't vote for him under any circumstance now. Then we can just focus on GOTV.

13 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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What month did they swiftboat John Kerry? (Original Post) helpisontheway Aug 2016 OP
Early August oberliner Aug 2016 #1
Okay..thank u. NT helpisontheway Aug 2016 #2
First in April, then in August karynnj Aug 2016 #13
He never responded properly RockaFowler Aug 2016 #3
He did , YET the MSM ignored it! mylye2222 Aug 2016 #4
YOOOGE difference, though: Hortensis Aug 2016 #5
Oh of course it was all lies helpisontheway Aug 2016 #8
What is happening was inevitable in that Hortensis Aug 2016 #11
Early August. mylye2222 Aug 2016 #6
Okay. Thanks. NT helpisontheway Aug 2016 #10
I think the key difference is: Democrats weren't going around beating up on Kerry as well brooklynite Aug 2016 #7
Oh yeah that is TRUE! NT helpisontheway Aug 2016 #9
I actually think for many voters, it may be too late for Trump Demsrule86 Aug 2016 #12

karynnj

(59,503 posts)
13. First in April, then in August
Fri Aug 5, 2016, 08:47 AM
Aug 2016

In April, they reared their ugly heads, the Kerry team responded by putting all of his records, except medical records on his Web site. This included all fitness reports which included dates, so you could see they spanned the entire interval. They were uniformly not just positive but very very positive.

In August, they returned. This time with their book which told many many different, even conflicting lies. This was like a cluster bomb of an attack - simultaneously hitting with many different attacks.

Kerry did respond to this. The media was informed that his official response would be given before the Firefighters union. It got very very little coverage by a media that gave Trump like coverage with much free air time to the liars. The other campaign response was to direct the media to the official records. The media played it as the SBVT vs Kerry, but it was really the liars against the Navy records.

The media helped even beyond ignoring Kerry's response which was exactly how one responds to provable lies. Consider that there was no outcry from the media when idiots at the Bush convention wore those despicable bandaids. What would have happened if the media had given someone like Max Cleland or Bobby Mueller, who was head of Vietnam Veterans of America, an organization Kerry among others started with Mueller, on to call these people out and demand Bush himself speak out against them. Imagine if they called on McCain to demand they be removed at least during his speech.

None of that happened - almost giving the impression that the media thought it ok or that Kerry deserved the attacks. Against this implicit acceptance by the media and all the free time they were given, the surprise is that Kerry did as well as he did in a year Democrats were not favored to win.

Polls late in the campaign showed few people voted against Kerry because of the lies. However, the lies made it harder for Kerry to use that part of his life to define his character and who he is as much as he could have otherwise. The fitness reports and the Brinkley book show a very serious, mature individual whose intelligence and personal concern for others was there even in a time where his life was at risk daily.

Kerry actually outperformed all models of how a generic Democrat would do in 2004. Not to mention, the Republicans suppressed the Democratic vote in Ohio and possibly cheated in the Cleveland area through use of ballots that differed by district even when multiple districts voted in the same place.

People forget that Bush was at 60 in December 2003. The economy was growing and it was not until 2005 that most people began to see that Bush was a disaster. After the election, one of the papers did some intensive interviews in Ohio. They found that the biggest issue that led them to vote for Bush/Cheney was national security. Sadly, many completely understood Kerry and thought well of him, but thought B/C would respond more intensely to terrorists - accepting things like terror that they correctly knew Kerry would reject.

Note that the term, swiftboating, implicitly defined attacks as based on lies. Almost immediately, even Republicans started to use the word to deflect attacks on themselves as swiftboating.



RockaFowler

(7,429 posts)
3. He never responded properly
Fri Aug 5, 2016, 06:38 AM
Aug 2016

If I remember correctly he brought all of his crew members on stage during the DNC. That happened after the Swiftboating had already started

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
5. YOOOGE difference, though:
Fri Aug 5, 2016, 06:54 AM
Aug 2016

Kerry's swiftboating was selling vicious lies.
Trump's exposure is revealing responsible, necessary truths.

Interestingly, although untold millions of previous and potential Trump supporters are falling away, his core support seems to be strengthening in response. There is a very strong "us versus everyone else" mentality developing. They can't elect him, no matter how many little checks they send, but they can force the party to leave him to crash and concentrate on saving as many other seats as possible.

Btw, a bunch of GOP bundlers and other fundraisers who reluctantly started pitching their usual connections for Trump (for the sake of the party), are now reportedly very embarrassed by the past week.

helpisontheway

(5,008 posts)
8. Oh of course it was all lies
Fri Aug 5, 2016, 07:23 AM
Aug 2016

They were despicable human beings. I remember all of the band aids and crap. Uhhhhhh...Anyway, I was just hoping that it is not too early for them to define him. I want all of this to stick. Thank goodness we have many of his antics on camera so it can be used in ads this Fall. Even if he becomes he becomes more disciplined, we still have record of his behavior to use in ads.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
11. What is happening was inevitable in that
Fri Aug 5, 2016, 07:38 AM
Aug 2016

Trump is not only strongly mentally disordered but very obviously so, and eventually that had to become known to the electorate. I had no notion of just how cozy a number of people he'd hired were with Russian mobsters and members of Putin's circle, but now that's out too, along with Putin's meddling on his behalf in our election.

And before all this, most conservatives, in and out of the party, did not like him, were only doing their usual of following whichever leader the party's most foolish and hard-core elements chose in the primary.

What I'm saying is, further ads from us will mostly just help direct and kick a ball down the road that's now gathering momentum on its own. Trump will still have good weeks and bad, and we have to fight to the end for the sake of our nation, but barring Hillary and Kaine being kidnapped by aliens, Trump can't win. And maybe not even then.

Demsrule86

(68,578 posts)
12. I actually think for many voters, it may be too late for Trump
Fri Aug 5, 2016, 07:53 AM
Aug 2016

My sis-in -law and her hubs are voting for Hillary in GA!!!! They are lifelong GOP types. My sister in Georgia is a Dem but her GOP hubs and daughters and my brother also in GA are voting for Hillary as well...this is shocking to me...and makes me thing my family is wising up. My brother told me that he quietly voted for Obama in 12. You live under the radar is you are a Dem in GA...it will affect your job and life if you don't.

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