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molova

(543 posts)
Mon Aug 15, 2016, 07:45 PM Aug 2016

Hillary is backed by "72% of those who say they had supported Sanders"

Such was the finding of the latest USA TODAY/Rock the Vote Poll.
Thanks to Bernie Sanders, the overwhelming majority of Bernie supporters, and the clear superiority of Hillary Clinton over Don the Con, the #BernieOrBust movement is a failure.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/08/14/donald-trump-historic-trouncing-among-younger-voters-hillary-clinton-president-poll/88666746/

117 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Hillary is backed by "72% of those who say they had supported Sanders" (Original Post) molova Aug 2016 OP
I was pleased to see that I think on Fox News! Funny, huh? George Eliot Aug 2016 #1
I'm one of those! Wednesdays Aug 2016 #2
Me too democrattotheend Aug 2016 #9
Thank you. I share your hope, there really are no "non-swing" states with the way things are headed! Maru Kitteh Aug 2016 #14
Full confession from me rufus dog Aug 2016 #19
Me three Tiggeroshii Aug 2016 #53
That's ducking awesome. NurseJackie Aug 2016 #3
This message was self-deleted by its author MichiganVote Aug 2016 #4
And ANOTHER shout out to Bernie supporters! calimary Aug 2016 #75
Kudos to Bernie for bringing as many as possible over. geek tragedy Aug 2016 #5
I am one of them. I don't need to throw an immature fit because I didn't get my way. onecaliberal Aug 2016 #6
Yep. I wasn't going to get my way even if Sanders had won the nomination. Orsino Aug 2016 #86
And the rest inhabit JPR with their hate. zappaman Aug 2016 #7
Nah rufus dog Aug 2016 #21
And yet so many duplicate user names between DU and there... BobbyDrake Aug 2016 #28
I think he'll bring in more. okasha Aug 2016 #8
I'm one also. Third Doctor Aug 2016 #10
Should be 100%! lonestarnot Aug 2016 #11
Yes, it should. eom grossproffit Aug 2016 #74
No, it really shouldn't. Orsino Aug 2016 #87
Blah blah. Bernie asked us to back Hillary. I didn't have to be asked. lonestarnot Aug 2016 #89
It's self-evident that some of Sanders' supporters wouldn't have engaged with any other candidate. Orsino Aug 2016 #90
I believe it's higher than that (and in my household it's100%) groundloop Aug 2016 #12
And after she wins... SHRED Aug 2016 #13
We need to stay engaged and vote in the midterms too upaloopa Aug 2016 #54
Would it have been the other way around? Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2016 #15
What do you mean? Moonwalk Aug 2016 #16
Would a majority of Hillary supporters have backed Bernie? Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2016 #17
We'll never know, will we? CajunBlazer Aug 2016 #18
Based of DU, if you read the forum during the primaries, KitSileya Aug 2016 #20
Some of those were at the Malloy board years ago.... Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2016 #22
You are correct. Been watching from afar...a dropin and not a DU member until recently. glennward Aug 2016 #31
To an even higher percentage nt geek tragedy Aug 2016 #23
Clinton supporters are probably life long Democrats Democat Aug 2016 #24
I am a life long straight ticket dem voting woman. I supported Bernie in the primary onecaliberal Aug 2016 #91
Yes. Without a doubt. As evidenced from the fact that Hillary supporters voted for Obama... Moonwalk Aug 2016 #25
I know some Hillary supporters who said they'd stay home if Bernie won.... Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2016 #26
And your point is? I mean, are you saying that you can prove that if the scenario were switched- Moonwalk Aug 2016 #32
I'm just wondering what the percentage would be. Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2016 #33
Imagining that Bernie had gotten the numbers Hillary got and won, and Hillary voters... Moonwalk Aug 2016 #34
Point taken. Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2016 #39
They backed Obama in 08, didn't they? La Lioness Priyanka Aug 2016 #35
The Pumas did too? Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2016 #38
What percentage of her voters were Pumas? La Lioness Priyanka Aug 2016 #40
The loud percentage. Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2016 #42
Lol. My guess, less than five. La Lioness Priyanka Aug 2016 #44
81% of Clinton supporters backed Obama immediately after the 2008 convention. LanternWaste Aug 2016 #61
That is a very good question. Ken Burch Aug 2016 #45
you think hillary voters, who are primarily of color and long term democrats La Lioness Priyanka Aug 2016 #59
I think they would have claimed both Bernie and Trump are destroying both parties. Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2016 #67
That's such an odd conclusion for you to arrive at, Ken... NurseJackie Aug 2016 #116
Of course it would, and probably to a greater degree. n/t Lil Missy Aug 2016 #66
As a Bernie supporter I have to say Lunabell Aug 2016 #27
I think it will get to 90 percent Stuart G Aug 2016 #29
Good! I'm happy to see that real life support doesn't match the artificial reality... NurseJackie Aug 2016 #30
LOL!!! Talk about "divisive". Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2016 #43
Actually, I'm not really caring about those who post over at that screwball site. NurseJackie Aug 2016 #49
The Right Wing's numbers are the REALLY exagerated ones. Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2016 #50
I believe you're correct. Every day, things look worse and worse for them. NurseJackie Aug 2016 #51
We're not at war with "that other site". Ken Burch Aug 2016 #57
I am. And I don't even have to go there to "do battle" with them... NurseJackie Aug 2016 #58
I'm not saying you should be polite to them. Just that you should ignore them. Ken Burch Aug 2016 #62
I have no idea what you're rabbiting-on about. NurseJackie Aug 2016 #64
One major difference between us...I never denigrate you on a personal level. Ken Burch Aug 2016 #71
Oh good grief. NurseJackie Aug 2016 #72
+1 cali Aug 2016 #73
Yeah, stormfront is just another site as well. NCTraveler Aug 2016 #63
The site we're discussing here has nothing in common with Stormfront. Ken Burch Aug 2016 #70
Does this mean that *some* sites should be given a little more leeway? ... NurseJackie Aug 2016 #88
I'm fine with MIRT banning people for violating site rules(virtually no one is violating them now). Ken Burch Aug 2016 #104
Well, actually ... NurseJackie Aug 2016 #108
"outside agitator"? Ken Burch Aug 2016 #111
So now I'm a segregationist? Very offensive, Ken. NurseJackie Aug 2016 #112
Post removed Post removed Aug 2016 #113
You need to check yourself, Ken. I know exactly what you were saying about me ... NurseJackie Aug 2016 #114
"Conservative" lies and smears must be countered Cary Aug 2016 #115
Actually they do have quite a bit in common. zappaman Aug 2016 #117
You couldn't even stop trying to bait people in response to THIS? Ken Burch Aug 2016 #46
Yes, I am happy! So very happy! Happy that reality of these numbers ... NurseJackie Aug 2016 #48
Not really sure why you're so concerned about "that other site". Ken Burch Aug 2016 #55
Huh? You've taken a wrong turn and I can't keep up. NurseJackie Aug 2016 #56
Stop being personally insulting. And stop making insinuations about me and my loyalties. Ken Burch Aug 2016 #80
You're very imaginative. I've done no such thing. NurseJackie Aug 2016 #85
I aggressively supported a candidate in the primaries. Ken Burch Aug 2016 #103
Such a vivid imagination and that word again... "purge". GMAFB! NurseJackie Aug 2016 #107
I'm one of them too. Took me awhile but I got over my disappointment. Avalux Aug 2016 #36
Remember Sanders did quite well. That means millions more votes for our next President, HRC. Sunlei Aug 2016 #37
This proves that Sanders supporters are doing our part. Ken Burch Aug 2016 #41
Another Sander's supporter for Clinton here! nt LostOne4Ever Aug 2016 #47
What about the remaining 28% CajunBlazer Aug 2016 #52
MIRT will get them eventually. NurseJackie Aug 2016 #60
You just admitted you're trying to get people banned. Ken Burch Aug 2016 #79
What nonsense, Ken! :-P NurseJackie Aug 2016 #83
Not at all CajunBlazer Aug 2016 #84
Excellent observations... NurseJackie Aug 2016 #92
Surely you don't think I was be sarcastic CajunBlazer Aug 2016 #93
That's one of the reasons I like you so much, CB! NurseJackie Aug 2016 #96
Literally LOL!!! CajunBlazer Aug 2016 #100
I wasn't speaking to you there, Cajun. n/t. Ken Burch Aug 2016 #105
Well, that was rude, Ken. NurseJackie Aug 2016 #109
But never the less my answer stands Ken CajunBlazer Aug 2016 #110
There has never been a "purge" Andy823 Aug 2016 #98
Great observations ... NurseJackie Aug 2016 #99
What about them? Lil Missy Aug 2016 #65
Seems to me that if 28 out of 100 Sanders supporters aren't voting for Hillary.... CajunBlazer Aug 2016 #68
who cares? I sure don't. n/t Lil Missy Aug 2016 #69
You're getting the other 72%. And we're way ahead. Isn't that enough? Ken Burch Aug 2016 #78
So... You've "just admitted" you want to give them a free pass. :-P NurseJackie Aug 2016 #94
Not give a free pass...not dignify with a response. Ken Burch Aug 2016 #102
So you want to allow unchallenged lies and smears to "become" (or be perceived as) the truth? NurseJackie Aug 2016 #106
My theory on the28%. Old and In the Way Aug 2016 #77
I couldn't agree more. Andy823 Aug 2016 #97
Well...clearly. I cannot imaging not voting when being faced with the stark choice PatrickforO Aug 2016 #76
That's fine; it's time to let the die-hards go. LeftRant Aug 2016 #81
Being in Texas I'd considered writing in Bernie. argyl Aug 2016 #82
So the other 28% are for Trump? One of the 99 Aug 2016 #95
K&R ismnotwasm Aug 2016 #101

George Eliot

(701 posts)
1. I was pleased to see that I think on Fox News! Funny, huh?
Mon Aug 15, 2016, 07:52 PM
Aug 2016

I think Shepard Smith whom I enjoy watching.

democrattotheend

(12,011 posts)
9. Me too
Mon Aug 15, 2016, 09:06 PM
Aug 2016

Since I live in a non-swing state I considered not voting for her for a little while when I was in my stages of grief. Hopefully most of the 28% of Bernie supporters who are not voting for her live in non-swing states like me. I have never felt obligated to vote for her like I would if I lived in a swing state. I am going to vote for her because I want to, not because I have to.

If I lived in a swing state I would not have even had to think about it. Hopefully most of the Bernie supporters in swing states will come to their senses in the end. I will feel better going into the election if most of the undecideds are Bernie supporters than if they are mostly supporters of other Republicans, because people often flirt with the idea of voting outside their party but ultimately "come home."

Maru Kitteh

(31,290 posts)
14. Thank you. I share your hope, there really are no "non-swing" states with the way things are headed!
Mon Aug 15, 2016, 10:27 PM
Aug 2016


 

rufus dog

(8,419 posts)
19. Full confession from me
Mon Aug 15, 2016, 11:21 PM
Aug 2016

And I bet that I am similar to at least half of the remaining 28%, if polled today, I would likely say I am not committed. Now I live in CA, so not much of an impact.

Bernie supporters are NOT going to Trump, I bet over 1/2 will go Clinton, and the other half may leave the ballot blank.

Now if I had to walk into the booth in the morning, I would vote for Hillary.

Response to molova (Original post)

calimary

(89,141 posts)
75. And ANOTHER shout out to Bernie supporters!
Thu Aug 18, 2016, 11:57 PM
Aug 2016

I just want to add a GIGANTIC thank-you! I fully remember how so many of them sincerely believed in him, and were inspired by him, and energized, and activated. Lots of folks here presently were among them. It's miserable to get one's hopes up and then to have to face disappointment. I know because I've been there myself.

I'm so glad to see this! I'm genuinely impressed - and thrilled - AND encouraged - that such a high percentage of folks in the Sanders camp have come over to join us Hillary supporters! I want to make sure you guys get a sense of how deeply it's appreciated! All the way to the top, I'm certain. You've gotta know Hillary appreciates this, too, and rather intensely so. After all, nobody understands the disappointment of losing the nomination as acutely and personally as she does.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
5. Kudos to Bernie for bringing as many as possible over.
Mon Aug 15, 2016, 08:03 PM
Aug 2016

Some were lost causes from the start, but he's brought over all the Democrats + allies.

 

onecaliberal

(36,594 posts)
6. I am one of them. I don't need to throw an immature fit because I didn't get my way.
Mon Aug 15, 2016, 08:08 PM
Aug 2016

This election is far too important, there is a lot on the line. Hillary also scooted a bit farther left, which was an added bonus. We need to kick that evil oranges ass and send him back to the rock he emerged from.

Orsino

(37,428 posts)
86. Yep. I wasn't going to get my way even if Sanders had won the nomination.
Fri Aug 19, 2016, 09:01 AM
Aug 2016

And it may be that Clinton will accomplish more progressive change than he would have been able to.

 

BobbyDrake

(2,542 posts)
28. And yet so many duplicate user names between DU and there...
Tue Aug 16, 2016, 05:51 AM
Aug 2016

Last edited Tue Aug 16, 2016, 07:11 AM - Edit history (1)

Almost as if there are more than a few people who post here AND at the hate-site, thinking no one will notice.

okasha

(11,573 posts)
8. I think he'll bring in more.
Mon Aug 15, 2016, 08:19 PM
Aug 2016

There's three months to go for the reality of Trump to set in.

Orsino

(37,428 posts)
87. No, it really shouldn't.
Fri Aug 19, 2016, 09:06 AM
Aug 2016

One of Sanders' amazing accomplishments was registering and engaging a ton of new voters who otherwise wouldn't even have registered. We couldn't have counted on all of them getting on board with a party they'd previously spurned.

Sanders fattened our ranks, and will have contributed significantly to what looks like big wins for Dems. There's no need to expect him and Clinton to have done more than the possible. It looks like they are doing more than enough.

Orsino

(37,428 posts)
90. It's self-evident that some of Sanders' supporters wouldn't have engaged with any other candidate.
Fri Aug 19, 2016, 09:20 AM
Aug 2016

Hillary Hate and apathy being what they are, no one seriously expected him to personally drive 100% of his supporters to the polls in November, nor could even a superstar like Clinton win them all over. It's okay.

groundloop

(13,574 posts)
12. I believe it's higher than that (and in my household it's100%)
Mon Aug 15, 2016, 10:14 PM
Aug 2016

Really, there are two choices - Will DonTheCon or Hillary Clinton come closest to supporting the positions that I support. That's what presidential elections are, a choice between one of two possibilities. If you don't support one then you're helping the other. Even though I was a strong Bernie supporter and contributor I am now fully behind Hillary. With just a bit of luck we can take back the Senate and possibly even the House, that's the only way we can keep from losing the progress we've made over the last 8 years (by the way, does anyone even remember how bad things were right before President Obama took office?).

 

SHRED

(28,136 posts)
13. And after she wins...
Mon Aug 15, 2016, 10:25 PM
Aug 2016

...it will be on her to continue to track left to keep this party together.

NO TPP
NO Keystone XL
$15 minimum wage
Work hard for universal health care
Tuition free higher education

KitSileya

(4,035 posts)
20. Based of DU, if you read the forum during the primaries,
Mon Aug 15, 2016, 11:21 PM
Aug 2016

You would already know the answer to that. Even during the most vicious attacks on us HRC supporters (and given that we were only 15% of the members, only us die-hards remained) I cannot remember more than one or two saying they would not vote for Sanders, should he by a miracle have gotten the nomination. Pretty much all of us made clear that we would vote for him.

On the other side, however, I would say a significant percentage of Sanders supporters have made it clear they will not vote for HRC. You only need to see the number of die-hard Sanders supporters who haven't accepted the ToS here, or who say one thing here, and a completely different thing on sites like JPR. I find their display of privilege and disdain for minorities inherent in that decision breath-taking, all things considered.

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
22. Some of those were at the Malloy board years ago....
Tue Aug 16, 2016, 01:08 AM
Aug 2016

I'm a classic pre-Reagan Blue Collar Democrat. I'm old enough to remember when the Democrats used to give speeches in Union Halls.

Some of the really hard core Liberals who demand political purity serve the cause better from the outside.

 

glennward

(989 posts)
31. You are correct. Been watching from afar...a dropin and not a DU member until recently.
Tue Aug 16, 2016, 06:12 AM
Aug 2016

Here is what I believe and know from life experience. People usually end up attracting to themselves people of like spirit. Unlike spirit and character usually end up being opposed to each other. It works in most every kind of relationship. Use your own family to test this out.

People can be cunning and appear to be genuine about you and themselves but deep down inside your own personal barometer registers the truth about yourself as well as them. For example, take Trump. Look at the people who really, really support him and who are attracted to him. I believe it is because they not only believe what he is saying (but they don't have to believe it) they actually feel the same way as he does.

If you are a true liberal and not just one who is really a libertarian dressed in liberal clothing, you will never really be attracted to anyone else except the person who is a true liberal in their core spirit. You may go along with someone who professes to be a liberal but deep down inside you won't really be comfortable with that person. Perhaps you are one who remembers how it felt when you went along with the school bully just to be safe and pretended that you were a mean person yourself. You made fun of the kid with a disability so as not to be scorned by the rest of the group? But you really, really didn't like the feeling.

Well it works in politics that way too. You may have friends and family who are staunch conservatives, who support Trump and are very vocal about it. You may pretend to agree with them when you are around them but they really make you feel uncomfortable and actually they are not very close to you anyway. They kind of shun you at family gatherings etc.

Hillary and even Bill may take positions that you do not favor but somehow you still favor them and are attracted to them. I believe it is because that deep down inside your spirit identifies with theirs. Deep inside they are really decent, loving, caring individuals. Just my theory based on my own life experiences.

Democat

(11,617 posts)
24. Clinton supporters are probably life long Democrats
Tue Aug 16, 2016, 01:28 AM
Aug 2016

If Sanders was the nominee, I think his support would be strong.

Also, no one likes Trump.

 

onecaliberal

(36,594 posts)
91. I am a life long straight ticket dem voting woman. I supported Bernie in the primary
Fri Aug 19, 2016, 09:26 AM
Aug 2016

The primary is over, Hillary is our candidate . There are many like me.

Moonwalk

(2,322 posts)
25. Yes. Without a doubt. As evidenced from the fact that Hillary supporters voted for Obama...
Tue Aug 16, 2016, 02:41 AM
Aug 2016

...back in 2008. Overwhelmingly so, though there were some "Hillary or bust" types. But I would guess--and guess is all any of us can do here--that it would be equal to these percentages or less had Bernie won the nomination. As pointed out, Hillary voters here were saying left and right that they liked Bernie and would vote for him if he won.

Maybe it was easier for them than a Sanders voter to imagine doing that because they'd "been-there-and-done-that." If you're going travel that journey of a thousand steps, you can't think of how many you've already gone and have yet to go. You need to fix your eyes on the horizon and keep walking. And know that you will get there.

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
26. I know some Hillary supporters who said they'd stay home if Bernie won....
Tue Aug 16, 2016, 02:47 AM
Aug 2016

They still believe she was robbed in 08 and they said they weren't going to vote if Bernie won.

We're talking Hillary pictures all over the fridge.

Moonwalk

(2,322 posts)
32. And your point is? I mean, are you saying that you can prove that if the scenario were switched-
Tue Aug 16, 2016, 01:02 PM
Aug 2016

--Most Hillary voters would not be with Bernie? That there's no way there'd be 72% of them ready to cast their votes for him? And your evidence for this would be those Hillary supporters you personally know who said they'd stay home if Bernie won? That's a pretty small sample on which to base your conclusion, don't you think? That'd be like everyone here assuming all Bernie supporters were "Busters" given that they personally knew a few Busters...we're talking people with Bernie pictures all over their refrigerators.

Like I said, it's all speculation any way. But is there any good reason to imply, as you seem to be doing, that Hillary supporters wouldn't have been willing to sacrifice what Bernie supporters have. That Hillary supporters wouldn't have fought for the greater good, like Bernie supporters. That, simply, Bernie supporters are better people then Hillary supports, more trustworthy, more honest, more willing to do what is right?

I think that does a terrible disservice to Hillary supporters, even those extreme ones you personally know who, angry and depressed, may have said they'd do one thing, and yet, had the tables been turned, might well have found some reserve of sanity and goodness in themselves, and done the right thing. For Hillary. And for America.

Moonwalk

(2,322 posts)
34. Imagining that Bernie had gotten the numbers Hillary got and won, and Hillary voters...
Tue Aug 16, 2016, 04:01 PM
Aug 2016

...got Bernie numbers, and lost, then I'm going to wildly, and without any evidence at all, guess that 72% of those losing Hillary voters would have probably said they'd vote for Bernie rather than Trump, rather than staying home, rather than writing in Hillary's name or voting for some third party candidate.

I'm sure some of them would have had messages at the bottom of their posts to make it clear that they were doing what they felt they had to do rather than what they wanted to do; something like, "Hillary has my heart, but Bernie my vote," but they'd have come through, I'm sure, at roughly about the same percent as the current Bernie followers.

I mean, if we're taking a wild, what-if? guess, then I see no reason to argue anything other than even-steven. Without facts to prove the contrary, saying anything else would be, well, divisive, don't you think?

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
38. The Pumas did too?
Tue Aug 16, 2016, 05:25 PM
Aug 2016

I remember some of the really vile racist stuff that came out of the soccer mom types back then.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
61. 81% of Clinton supporters backed Obama immediately after the 2008 convention.
Thu Aug 18, 2016, 12:55 PM
Aug 2016

81% of Clinton supporters backed Obama immediately after the 2008 convention.

All things being equal (and unless being presented with numerical evidence to the contrary), I'd imagine we'll see an approximation of that number (within the margin of error is my two dollar bet) in this cycle, regardless of anecdotal allegations of someone saying something vulgar or the irrelevance of what gender they may or may nor be...

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
45. That is a very good question.
Wed Aug 17, 2016, 02:20 PM
Aug 2016

I'm thinking more than a few of them would have gone "Democrats for Nixon" in that scenario...and then still felt they had the right to accuse Sanders supporters of not showing "party unity".

 

La Lioness Priyanka

(53,866 posts)
59. you think hillary voters, who are primarily of color and long term democrats
Thu Aug 18, 2016, 12:09 PM
Aug 2016

would deflect and vote for Trump if Sanders was the nominee?

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
116. That's such an odd conclusion for you to arrive at, Ken...
Sun Aug 21, 2016, 09:26 AM
Aug 2016

... and whether you realize it or not, your cynical theorizing suggests that you have a very low impression of ("more than a few&quot Hillary supporters. Sometimes it's difficult for me to tell if you actually believe outrageous things like that, or if you're intentionally being plucky just to annoy and to get a reaction.

I'll try to be optimistic and just assume you're yanking everyone's chain just for the fun of it and to "promote discussion" amongst ourselves.

 

Lunabell

(7,309 posts)
27. As a Bernie supporter I have to say
Tue Aug 16, 2016, 04:02 AM
Aug 2016

He wants trump to lose and a vote for Clinton is a vote against trump! Anyway, as a life long Democrat, I couldn't see myself voting any other way.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
30. Good! I'm happy to see that real life support doesn't match the artificial reality...
Tue Aug 16, 2016, 06:01 AM
Aug 2016

... of online worlds and discussion forums.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
49. Actually, I'm not really caring about those who post over at that screwball site.
Wed Aug 17, 2016, 03:01 PM
Aug 2016

They're beyond hope and have made it pretty clear that they're never going to support Hillary no matter what. It's good to hear that their numbers are greatly exaggerated, isn't it?

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
51. I believe you're correct. Every day, things look worse and worse for them.
Wed Aug 17, 2016, 03:26 PM
Aug 2016

The louder they get, the more convinced I am that they're taking their last gasps of fresh air before being dragged below the surface.




 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
57. We're not at war with "that other site".
Thu Aug 18, 2016, 11:32 AM
Aug 2016

That other site is just another site. Move on already.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
58. I am. And I don't even have to go there to "do battle" with them...
Thu Aug 18, 2016, 12:04 PM
Aug 2016

... or ridicule them. Interesting, huh?

All Hillary haters and detractors deserve my contempt. Whether they're stealthy or subtle, or blatant and obvious, there's really no need for me to be polite to them. Of course you're free to be warm and friendly and welcoming to them if you like. Nobody's stopping you. Or maybe you're just "indifferent" toward the Hillary haters, it's difficult to tell where you're coming from or exactly what your feelings are. I'm pretty good at reading people and their intentions and motivations, but sometimes I'm wrong, so it's a hit or miss, but mostly a hit. I guess the only clue you're giving at this point is that it appears that my overt contempt for them seems to truly get under your skin. I find that to be fascinating. I'm not sure what to make of it, but it's definitely a head-scratcher and eyebrow-raiser.

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
62. I'm not saying you should be polite to them. Just that you should ignore them.
Thu Aug 18, 2016, 01:23 PM
Aug 2016

They really don't matter enough to justify the energy you put into this.

And frankly, it seems like you do this in order to try to provoke people into defending that site or expressing views you disagree with so you can get people thrown off of DU. That's inappropriate and pointless.

It's enough that most Sanders people, due to the progressive platform the Sanders campaign played an equal role in shaping with HRC, are backing the ticket.

Nothing would be better if HRC were running further right and we were back in the 2000 tactic of just trying to browbeat people into backing the Democratic ticket without doing anything to reach out to them. That was dead zone politics and it was never sustainable.

We are doing better in the polls than we were in 2000 BECAUSE the party is more progressive than it was in 2000.

It trivializes the whole thing to refer to people at that site as "Hillary haters". I don't condone their tone or their tactics(or at least those I've seen here, because I don't choose to go to that site), but they aren't driven by personal animus. They are driven(even if they act inappropriately)by sincere concern about the issues.

And it's not about anything getting under my skin. It's about effective verses ineffective politics It simply isn't possible to switch people's support from one candidate to another by berating and flaming them. The way you change minds is through positive argument. We have been MAKING a positive argument and winning over more and more former Sanders people every day. Why do you insist on attack politics towards former Sanders voters who have been holdouts when it's clear that attack politics doesn't work?

Why is it so important to you to campaign negatively?

It simply puzzles me that you are so invested in an ugly approach to politics, and that you are bound and determined to treat former Sanders people who have remained uncommitted as the enemy(as you did throughout the primaries), rather than as people we can reach out to?

Are you ever going to let go of the idea that the Sanders campaign was a conspiracy to destroy the Democratic Party?

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
64. I have no idea what you're rabbiting-on about.
Thu Aug 18, 2016, 01:42 PM
Aug 2016
They really don't matter enough to justify the energy you put into this.
If the length of message can be used as an indicator, then this must be an subject of great importance to you (or you just like "chatting" with me for some reason) but, I'm afraid I must tell you that the text quoted above is where I stopped reading. Yawn.

I'm not interested in reading your essays. Get to the point. Hurry it up, man. Make it snappy. Zip-zip! Chop-chop! I don't need your life history.

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
71. One major difference between us...I never denigrate you on a personal level.
Thu Aug 18, 2016, 09:14 PM
Aug 2016

Why do you feel entitled to disrespect me, when I don't ever disrespect you?

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
63. Yeah, stormfront is just another site as well.
Thu Aug 18, 2016, 01:29 PM
Aug 2016

One of the all time great justifications.

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
70. The site we're discussing here has nothing in common with Stormfront.
Thu Aug 18, 2016, 09:11 PM
Aug 2016

I wasn't saying we shouldn't ever address what ANY other site says or does.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
88. Does this mean that *some* sites should be given a little more leeway? ...
Fri Aug 19, 2016, 09:09 AM
Aug 2016

... and a little more consideration? ... a little more patience? ... a little more respect?

Personally, I think a zero-tolerance policy is always best and that all anti-Hillary attacks, lies and smears need to be addressed.

That's exactly what MIRT has been tasked with. Our MIRT team has its guidelines and very specific rules, and they're doing a good job of zapping the obvious ones as well as the slow-game stealthy ones.

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
104. I'm fine with MIRT banning people for violating site rules(virtually no one is violating them now).
Fri Aug 19, 2016, 01:12 PM
Aug 2016

It's enough to leave it at that and to assume the problem is taken care of.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
108. Well, actually ...
Fri Aug 19, 2016, 01:51 PM
Aug 2016
(virtually no one is violating them now)
... because the majority of "removed" OP's are completely hidden, for you to make a bold claim like that is problematic, and likely to be inaccurate.

Also, even the generic "post removed" placeholders that we do see (inline replies) give us no indication if it was a disruptor, zombie, or outside agitator... or if it was just a regular member who got a little over-heated and emotional.

It's enough to leave it at that and to assume the problem is taken care of.
Perhaps for you that's true.
 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
111. "outside agitator"?
Sat Aug 20, 2016, 06:37 PM
Aug 2016

That's the kind of phrase segregationists were using in 1963.

We have achieved unity. Please stop pretending their are people seeking to undermine our candidate on this. They're aren't, or at least they're aren't in numbers large enough to make a difference.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
112. So now I'm a segregationist? Very offensive, Ken.
Sat Aug 20, 2016, 08:16 PM
Aug 2016

Please stop giving the Hillary haters a free pass. Thank you.

Response to NurseJackie (Reply #112)

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
114. You need to check yourself, Ken. I know exactly what you were saying about me ...
Sat Aug 20, 2016, 10:34 PM
Aug 2016

... no matter how clever you think you were.

Cary

(11,746 posts)
115. "Conservative" lies and smears must be countered
Sun Aug 21, 2016, 08:37 AM
Aug 2016

Especially when perpetuated by radical leftists.

Radical leftists will drag us down if they can.

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
46. You couldn't even stop trying to bait people in response to THIS?
Wed Aug 17, 2016, 02:23 PM
Aug 2016

You couldn't just be happy that Sanders people are proving that the Sanders campaign was never a conspiracy to destroy the Democratic Party?

You STILL can't let the war end?

Jesus Christ-in-a-Katy Perry-video, give it a rest already.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
48. Yes, I am happy! So very happy! Happy that reality of these numbers ...
Wed Aug 17, 2016, 02:59 PM
Aug 2016

... is vastly different from what some would have us believe. Namely, based on the folks over at that other site. They're awful over there, aren't they? Hopefully this will put an end to their nonsensical threats and demands. The truth is revealed. Their lies and hyperbole at that other site are exposed.

You couldn't just be happy that Sanders people are proving that the Sanders campaign was never a conspiracy to destroy the Democratic Party?
GMAFB! What a weird thing to say. Did I ever say such a thing? I'm not sure how you arrived at that conclusion about me or what I believe or perceive.

You can't just be happy that I'm happy without creating some strawman to knock over? Sheesh.

You still can't let the war end? Give it a rest already. Such hypersensitivity. It's almost as if you're LOOKING for something to be offended about. I'm not sure I understand, but, whatever.

Anyway, it's been a while since I've visited over there ... so perhaps you have some better 'intel' that paints a rosier picture. Otherwise, I'm not really sure why anyone is so defensive about those characters at that site.

Take a break from the keyboard, Ken. Grab a cup of coffee. Relax. Chill out. Go for a walk, get some fresh air.
 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
55. Not really sure why you're so concerned about "that other site".
Wed Aug 17, 2016, 09:43 PM
Aug 2016

It feels as though you have this perpetual need to do battle with them. Better just not to go there(I don't).

They are just another place on the web...it's a waste of effort to see them as "the enemy&quot as you appear to).

BTW...I spend plenty of time away from the keyboard. You should consider doing the same.

It's not healthy to devote so much of one's time to spreading hostility and snark.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
56. Huh? You've taken a wrong turn and I can't keep up.
Thu Aug 18, 2016, 06:22 AM
Aug 2016

I have no idea where you're trying to take this now, but it's obvious to me that you don't want to stay on track ... for reasons that puzzle me, you're just all over the place. Ugh.

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
80. Stop being personally insulting. And stop making insinuations about me and my loyalties.
Fri Aug 19, 2016, 01:14 AM
Aug 2016

You know perfectly well I'm fully supporting the Democratic ticket.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
85. You're very imaginative. I've done no such thing.
Fri Aug 19, 2016, 09:00 AM
Aug 2016
You know perfectly well I'm fully supporting the Democratic ticket.
Yes, of course you are.

But I think reasonable people will agree that post #56 is my acknowledgement of your habit of trying to change the subject and take things in an entirely different direction. Often it's difficult for me to determine if it's intentional, or if you've taken the wrong turn by accident. Regardless, it always takes things off-track.

Your recent accusation that I'm "making insinuations" and "being offended" is a perfect example of trying to change the subject. I'm smarter than you think I am, Ken.

If you're "personally insulted" every time someone disagrees with you, or is dismissive of your opinions, or is critical of your wordiness... well... I have to wonder why you bother responding to me at all.

I know you better than you think I do. You have quite a history. In the past, you've shown yourself to be much more resilient and aggressive than the delicate flower you're now pretending to be, so I'm not buying this little "poor me" act.
 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
103. I aggressively supported a candidate in the primaries.
Fri Aug 19, 2016, 01:07 PM
Aug 2016

But I always did so fairly, truthfully, on the merits of the issues, and within forum rules and the bounds of fair play. I opposed your candidate-but you know perfectly well I never acted hatefully towards her. I'm fine with her being the nominee and never had an issue with a woman being president(it was never the issue with the overwhelming majority of Sanders supporters...we wanted the most-progressive candidate, we didn't care about the genitalia of the nominee-why would we?)

I'm fine with you disagreeing with me...I'm not fine with you trying to purge people from this site when they aren't doing anything against site rules. And it's just that I think you shouldn't be obsessing with what happens on another site when that other site doesn't really matter(I've never gone to that site and never intend to).

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
107. Such a vivid imagination and that word again... "purge". GMAFB!
Fri Aug 19, 2016, 01:42 PM
Aug 2016
I'm not fine with you trying to purge people from this site when they aren't doing anything against site rules.
That's not up to me is it? There's no "purge" going on no matter how much you believe it. You're using language that gives the impression of being a "victim" of some vast conspiracy. It's weird. I can't figure out why.

What IS true is that our MIRT volunteers are very busy zapping individuals because of their behavior and goals. If anyone gets zapped, then it's their own fault. Not because I've waved a magic wand and banished them from the kingdom. I'm smarter than you think I am, but I'm definitely NOT as powerful as you appear to believe.

This exchange with you just getting silly and repetitive. Your intro paragraph was, uh ... well, I guess "interesting" would be a good way to describe it. It's unclear to me why you feel the need to write such defensive words when I've made no corresponding accusations against you. It's almost as if you're responding to someone else from months gone by, and you're aiming your words at me (by proxy) in an effort to get some sort of closure on long-simmering resentments. It suggests to me that you're the one who's still in primary-mode, not me (as you have accused me on more than one occasion in the past couple of days.)

But, I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and admit that I could be wrong. I'm just telling you how it appears to me, and why I have such little patience with you.

And it's just that I think you shouldn't be obsessing with what happens on another site when that other site doesn't really matter
Well, that's where you're wrong. Lies and attacks on our candidate and our party DO matter, Ken. It's a shame that you don't see it that way, but I guess everyone has different priorities.

Avalux

(35,015 posts)
36. I'm one of them too. Took me awhile but I got over my disappointment.
Tue Aug 16, 2016, 04:34 PM
Aug 2016

I did my fair share of criticizing Hillary in the primary but I will vote for her. I recognize that you don't always get to choose who gets in the lifeboat, and you want someone who can row. Don't have to love them. I'm hoping she'll grow on me.

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
37. Remember Sanders did quite well. That means millions more votes for our next President, HRC.
Tue Aug 16, 2016, 04:39 PM
Aug 2016

Thank you Bernie Sanders

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
41. This proves that Sanders supporters are doing our part.
Tue Aug 16, 2016, 06:17 PM
Aug 2016

In the end, most of the rest will come along, if we just continue making the positive appeals that have won most Sanders people over so far.

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
79. You just admitted you're trying to get people banned.
Fri Aug 19, 2016, 01:13 AM
Aug 2016

Given that they aren't trying to campaign against the ticket on THIS site, there's no reason for you to be wanting a purge.

Why can't you give it a rest and admit the war is over?

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
83. What nonsense, Ken! :-P
Fri Aug 19, 2016, 08:42 AM
Aug 2016
You just admitted you're trying to get people banned.



I've done no such thing.

That's your imaginative interpretation. But in reality, people's own behavior is what causes MIRT to jump into action.

It has nothing to do with me, my observations, my personal suspicions, or my feelings about the haters. My contempt for the dyed-in-the-wool-never-gonna-change Hillary haters who come here to post their lies and smears is no secret. I've always been open about this.

The haters get themselves banned, right? They have no place here, so I'm sure this is something that we can both agree on, yes?

I've also indicated my confidence in the MIRT team in being able to spot those individuals and their ability to deal with them effectively and promptly.

I don't fully understand your apparent obsession with my attitude toward the haters, infiltrators and disruptors. Why does that bother you so much? I'm puzzled at why it is that you appear to be determined to make it into something other than what it is. You really need to stop, Ken. Just stop.

The liars and haters won't disappear just by pretending they don't exist. Nor will it make them stop their attacks and smears.

Given that they aren't trying to campaign against the ticket on THIS site,
Seriously? You haven't been paying attention. Or perhaps you don't notice as easily because those posts are often completely removed by MIRT as they carry on with their duties.

there's no reason for you to be wanting a purge.
What a weird way to describe it. Purge? No, silly... MIRT doesn't "purge"... they deal with each case, one-by-one, as the Hillary haters appear and make themselves known.

Surely you can also agree that MIRT needs to remove that type of poster from this site whenever their intentions are made clear, yes? Maybe this is something else we can find common-ground on.

Why can't you give it a rest and admit the war is over?
Oh, for pity's sake! Why can't you accept the fact that Hillary haters exist? Otherwise, there wouldn't be a need for MIRT, right?

Their lies and smears need to be addressed. As long as they're trying to disrupt and smear and spread lies, the war will always be ON with those individuals who make themselves known. There will always be a need for our MIRT team.

For anyone to pretend otherwise, is just silly.

CajunBlazer

(5,648 posts)
84. Not at all
Fri Aug 19, 2016, 08:44 AM
Aug 2016

Surely no one is still posting on this site that intends to to vote for Stein or not vote at all. That would display a lack of integrity which such people claim to have in abundance. After all they claim that it is their need to be true to themselves and their beliefs which guides their voting behavior. Surely their motto is "Be true to yourself and never will you be false to any other man". No, how could they be on this site pretending that they are supporting Hilary; their integrity would not allow such behavior.

So I am certainly not supporting a "purge". How can you purge people have surely abandoned this site when it moved into general election mode.

On the other hand I see no reason to quit bashing people who have abandoned the Democratic party and the most electable progressive. While I admire their integrity, I have nothing but disdain for their purely emotional response and their lack of ability to reason clearly.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
92. Excellent observations...
Fri Aug 19, 2016, 09:33 AM
Aug 2016
How can you purge people have surely abandoned this site when it moved into general election mode.
Exactly! They'll just be zapped individually whenever they can't control themselves, or whenever they decide to remove their disguise.



While I admire their integrity...
I can't even bring myself to believe that they possess that trait. I believe that it's ONLY hatred and lack of reason. They may try to feign being offended, and they may flatter themselves by claiming to have "integrity" ... but that has no basis in reality.

No, how could they be on this site pretending that they are supporting Hilary; their integrity would not allow such behavior.
You're right about that, it would be difficult for them. If such a thing were happening, it would be a long-game and would take some serious role-playing skills. It's unclear to me what would motivate someone to do that, or what they hoped to accomplish. I guess we'll find out more as time goes on.

CajunBlazer

(5,648 posts)
93. Surely you don't think I was be sarcastic
Fri Aug 19, 2016, 09:53 AM
Aug 2016

I'm not a sarcastic person, but I admit that my integrity is not on par with those of the ideologically pure.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
109. Well, that was rude, Ken.
Fri Aug 19, 2016, 02:10 PM
Aug 2016

You could have just ignored it. Or rebutted it. Essentially, your message is the equivalent telling him to "shut up" or letting him know that he's not welcome to participate. You know, for someone like yourself who is so often concerned with feeling snubbed or disrespected, your abrupt reply to CB was indeed an odd one, in my opinion.


CajunBlazer

(5,648 posts)
110. But never the less my answer stands Ken
Fri Aug 19, 2016, 03:47 PM
Aug 2016

Feel free to disagree with my statement if you wish, but please don't try to dismiss me as if I were not part to the conversation. We are having a discussion on a board intended for discussions. Anyone can with DU credentials can jump in at any point they chose without reservations. Surely you already understood that.

Andy823

(11,555 posts)
98. There has never been a "purge"
Fri Aug 19, 2016, 10:29 AM
Aug 2016

There are still trouble makers, trolls, coming here to stir things up, and some of them come from JPR. If a person is trolling they should be banned. If they are sincere about voting for Hillary, then they "won't" be banned. All the crap about a purge was used by the trolls that infested DU during the primaries. It was simply a tactic to try and gain sympathy and get more people to join the JPR hate fest. I don't give a damn about JPR, but when they come here to disrupt things, then I have a problem and think they should lose their posting privileges. What about you, do you think they should be allowed to come here and cause more problems?

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
99. Great observations ...
Fri Aug 19, 2016, 11:03 AM
Aug 2016
and some of them come from JPR. If a person is trolling they should be banned.
I'm very glad that we have MIRT! The new policy of having those trollish OP's disappear completely has the effect of making it appear that MIRT is less busy than we think they are. Our MIRT volunteers clean things up and often leave no trace of their activity, so many people mistakenly believe that the trolls simply don't exist.

All the crap about a purge was used by the trolls that infested DU during the primaries. It was simply a tactic to try and gain sympathy and get more people to join the JPR hate fest.
I see a lot of that happening still. If anyone decides to respond to your closing question, the answer they give will reveal a lot. If they answer in the negative, then it shows that their "outrage" and hyper-defensiveness is manufactured and completely insincere. If they answer in the positive, then it reveals that they are sympathetic for those who engage in disruption and attacks.

CajunBlazer

(5,648 posts)
68. Seems to me that if 28 out of 100 Sanders supporters aren't voting for Hillary....
Thu Aug 18, 2016, 06:28 PM
Aug 2016

Better than 1 out of every 4 - millions of people - who are the voting for?

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
78. You're getting the other 72%. And we're way ahead. Isn't that enough?
Fri Aug 19, 2016, 01:09 AM
Aug 2016

There's no reason to try to provoke people and stir things up over such a small number. The rest will come around.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
94. So... You've "just admitted" you want to give them a free pass. :-P
Fri Aug 19, 2016, 10:01 AM
Aug 2016
See how that works, Ken? I know how to deliberately twist meanings and pretend to misunderstand, too. I can play games with words, too.

There's no reason to try to provoke people and stir things up over such a small number.
Actually, there's "no reason" to ignore them and allow their lies and hate to go unanswered. It appears that they're certainly keeping MIRT busy.

The rest will come around.
Nope. Not gonna happen. Haters gonna hate.
 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
102. Not give a free pass...not dignify with a response.
Fri Aug 19, 2016, 01:04 PM
Aug 2016

The site you're talking about doesn't matter.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
106. So you want to allow unchallenged lies and smears to "become" (or be perceived as) the truth?
Fri Aug 19, 2016, 01:20 PM
Aug 2016

That's weird. You're free to frame it however you want, but it certainly sounds like giving them a free pass to me.

Looks like we're at an impasse, aren't we?

Old and In the Way

(37,540 posts)
77. My theory on the28%.
Fri Aug 19, 2016, 12:37 AM
Aug 2016

9% are going to vote for Hillary. They won't like it, but they aren't stupid.
10% are like Nader voters, naive and self absorbed...they know their vote is too precious to waste on either Party. They will vote for Stein or Johnson.
The other 9% are your classic ratfuckers. They were never going to vote for Sanders or Clinton, but they get their jollies off by pretending they were uber lefties that hated HRC. The tip-off was never posting about issues, just recycling RW bullshit. Their mo is the same every election cycle. Predictable as the sun rising in the East very day.

Oh and most of the last 2 groups are frolicking on JPR....the lambs and wolves are playing together.

I guess this is the 3 ways, man.


Andy823

(11,555 posts)
97. I couldn't agree more.
Fri Aug 19, 2016, 10:19 AM
Aug 2016

Sadly some of those in your last group, the 9%, are still coming here playing their stupid little games. Now they are "concerned" about so many things that "might" go wrong with Clintons campaign, and they still don't discuss issues.

PatrickforO

(15,353 posts)
76. Well...clearly. I cannot imaging not voting when being faced with the stark choice
Fri Aug 19, 2016, 12:09 AM
Aug 2016

of Clinton vs Trump.

I mean, talk about a no brainer!

Besides, Clinton will be competent, sane and won't throw nukes around irresponsibly. She is actually QUALIFIED for the office. Unlike a certain GOP candidate...

She'll do fine as Madam President!

Try that out...

Madam President.


Sounds good.

LeftRant

(524 posts)
81. That's fine; it's time to let the die-hards go.
Fri Aug 19, 2016, 03:23 AM
Aug 2016

You can't please everyone, nor should we try

argyl

(3,064 posts)
82. Being in Texas I'd considered writing in Bernie.
Fri Aug 19, 2016, 04:50 AM
Aug 2016

But I'm voting Hillary now. Just one more vote to bring this state closer to sanity.

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