2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumA terrifying thought/ election rigging
I generally laugh at conspiracy theories- especially as of late, as the plots and scenarios bandied about by Trump and his fringe have become steadily more bizarre. It seems like you can't read a single article without reference to vast conspiracies to rig the election and prevent Trump from winning (as if he needed any outside help to prevent himself from winning.)
That being said, as the rhetoric from Trump around election-rigging has become increasingly unhinged, rather than being amused, I have become troubled in recent days. In discussions with friends and relatives, we've talked about the reasons why Trump is so keen on setting the stage for claiming a rigged election this early in the process- and why he doesn't seem to care that it makes him and his followers seem like tinfoil hat wearing loons. Most everyone seems to believe that it is simply down to a) his ego/ saving face when he loses, and b) whipping his base into action to ensure they show up at the polls. However, a deeply disturbing possibility occurred to me, pulling together a scenario that fits a little too well for me to disregard outright.
Consider: the more the right-wing Trump brigade shouts "rigged," the more we a) consider them paranoid and ignorant, and b) emphatically and publicly say that our elections are fair and that the kind of widespread voter-fraud that he claims is occurring has not been found to exist. The Democratic Party has been very proactive in that stance to ward off what the most likely result from the election will be- that is, allegations of rigging from Trump following a landslide win for Hillary. But.... what if- WHAT IF all of this "rigged" nonsense is a setup? Meaning, it's been very effectively demonstrated how easy it is to hack voting machines. And Trump's friends, the Russians, have shown both a willingness and aptitude for toying with/ hacking into our political systems. What if this is all a setup so that Hillary/ the Democratic Party cannot say a thing when Russia hacks voting results to give Trump the win? I mean- how could she/they? They've spend so much time vociferously defending our elections as fair- how exactly could she/they mount a defense in the face of something like that, when they've just spent the last month painting any allegations of rigging as fringe lunacy?
And yes, I am fully aware that I now sound like the foaming-at-the-mouth conspiracy theorist, but instead of looking for an echo-chamber of validation, I would much prefer the collective intelligence around here to tell me exactly why I'm wrong.
Please tell me I'm wrong. Please tell me this can't be true. Please tell me I am completely nuts. Because the alternative is horrifying.
apcalc
(4,465 posts)What was that cyber event the other day? Who did it? Why? Anyone know?
A preview?
Really , is it possible they could eff things up royally?
Response to Scully (Original post)
Post removed
Charlotte Little
(658 posts)Seriously.
Has ANYTHING about Wikileaks not bothered/worried you? Dude, Russia wants Trump to win and they are nasty little shit cobras poised to strike.
You may think it's stupid to think that way, but some of us aren't riding unicorns over rainbows to election day. And there is no reason we can't express that worry - or at least, we should be able to express it without being told our worry is "effing idiotic."
pnwmom
(109,024 posts)Charlotte Little
(658 posts)I've been worried too. Trump projects what he does onto Hillary/Democrats. Thus, I worry the Russians are working to hack into our voting systems (where possible) to overturn this election.
Seriously...I'm worried.
tawadi
(2,110 posts)It is just like him to accuse the other party of exactly what he does. Very scary indeed.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,985 posts)by the Russians anyhow? While it is theoretically possible to hack voting machines, it would have to be done mostly at a local level. Are they going to go precinct by precinct? The machines are not networked to each other nationally and they use different software. It's doable, maybe, but not easily. So stop fretting and fucking vote.
Charlotte Little
(658 posts)...that we shouldn't vote. It's just a worry that is warranted given the nature of interference in this election.
I'm willing to bet you $$$$ that HRC's campaign has thought of this as well. Best to consider the possibility...and vote, as it isn't mutually exclusive.
Scully
(60 posts): : I don't have any answers as to what people are supposed to do beyond going about life as per usual, which does include voting. Not sure where you got from my original post that I was advocating any particular action, let alone one as abhorrent as not voting.
Shivaraja
(58 posts)Russian hackers or no, they can only steal it if it's a close race. If we vote in droves, any cheating will just serve to decrease their losses, nothing more.
okaawhatever
(9,479 posts)safe, it does hurt our claims of previous election fraud. Think Ohio, the PhD statistician in Kansas who says there's statistically something wrong with the voting pattern of the last election, and so on. As other posters have mentioned, rigging the elction on a national level is near impossible, but doing so on a local level is possible.
apcalc
(4,465 posts)might be enough to throw the election , or at least throw the result into doubt
Putin would love to get his buddy elected or at the very least cause chaos.
Vote vote vote! We need to overwhelm them!
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)That's in keeping with their past, caging blacks in Florida, vote-switching in Cleveland, the Milwaukee anomaly. Dem rich minority neighborhoods are the go to locations for lots of votes to steal. Nothing new there!
DLCWIdem
(1,580 posts)Hannahcares
(118 posts)I have been worried about computerized election Theft for some time, long before the recent Russian intrusions. Have been actively involved in "verified voting" activities since 2008. Discussions with Francois Choquette in 2012 and studying his statistical analyses of Republican primaries helped me realize what was possible. Watching "pubs" who were behind in the polls yet won their elections (notably Brownback, Scott Walker and Matt Bevin)led me to believe that the voting machines and optical scanning systems are ripe for manipulation. I look at states where Hiliary is leading in the polls, yet state government is controlled by "pubs" like Wisconsin, Michigan, even Illinois, and certainly Florida and North Carolina, and I worried about what we might wake up to on the morning after Election Day. The only recourse now is to turn out for Hilary and the Dems in such overwhelming numbers that the electronic "flipping programs" won't be enough. Longer term, we must find a way to eliminate all of the "black box" devices that prevent true transparency in tallying the vote.
Numerous prominent "verified voting" advocates including Edward Felton from Princeton, Ari Berman ( see Give Us the Ballot) Jonathon Simon's 2011 paper - Time to Face the Reality of Election Rigging; Simon's recent book - CODE RED - Compuertized Election Theft , Harper's Magazine November 2012 "How to Rig an Election, are but a few of the sources that detail how the voting and counting systems are easily manipulated.
I suspect these manipulation may be used to swing Senate races this year, even if Trump is so far behind that the election for president can't be rigged.
So - worried, YES!! Short term solutions - NO! Longer term - read Jonathon Simon's Code Rec - and support the activities of the Election Defense Alliance. Peace, Hannah