Can we petition our government for a recount and an investigation of the election results?

[politicaljunkie41910]

I am totally serious. I read ThoughtCriminal's entire thread including all of you DU'ers well written responses and I am so glad that I have this board as my sanity check. Thank you all for saying what I've been thinking the past week and much more.

I would like to know if there is something that we here at DU can do to petition our government for a recount. I have the utmost respect for Hillary Clinton for what she's been through but just because she conceded the race to the Liar in Chief doesn't mean that we have to without a fight. More than half this nation voted for Hillary, and the Trump Supporters were prepared to take to the streets to contest the election had they lost, and to take back their country by whatever means necessary even by 2nd Amendment remedies, as I recall them saying. The GOP has used every means possible by hook or by crook to win elections even when we thought they were dead having conducted their own autopsy. They stole what rightfully was OUR Supreme Court pick and then when they thought they would lose the White House again they decided that we didn't need a 9th SCOTUS Justice.

How many times are we going to allow the GOP to grab us by the pussy and do nothing because we are a bunch of defeated bitches. What are we going to do? Sit around and bitch and moan while we turn on one another blaming ourselves and our own party and the DNC while the GOP who have obstructed for the past 8 years and are actually the ones responsible for their own angry white disenfranchised men and kids not having jobs, while they dismantle everything Obama tried to do.

Are we going to just sit by and watch them systematically bankrupt this nation with tax cuts to the rich and powerful, lower tax rates on corporations who have parked their profits offshore for just this moment, eliminate the inheritance tax and legally steal for themselves what this nation has left to tax until we are officially a third world nation. I can just see it now, after President Trump destroys what's left of the IRS, he'll provide classes through Trump University on how to make millions and pay nothing in taxes.

If we allow this theft to go unchallenged, we will not survive as a party. Obama has us on the right road to recovery and the GOP will take credit for it and we'll continue to lose future elections, federal, state and local. I'm not suggesting that we take to the streets and burn down this country, not hardly. But there has got to be something we can do, and it should at a minimum start with a demand for a recount and an examination of the voting machines in those Battleground States whose voting results are inconsistent with the exit polls results. Angry white GOP men should not get to be the only ones who have their voices heard. Whoever hacked DU knew they had to silence us election night and the days that follow because there are a lot of smart people here who right away knew something was amiss. I know we all feel defeated right now, but trust me, we won't feel better over time about having done nothing about this. If not how, when? I assure you the GOP would not take this lying down. Obama is doing what he has to do as the current President. But somehow I think Obama the community organizer would be mad as hell like the rest of us.

[longship]

1. No!

That would be subject to the various state laws, and we already know what would happen.

No point in what is suggested. Drumpf is President-elect of the USA.

[Maraya1969]

4. I really do not like it when someone jumps on a potential recourse for this fiasco

Are you a legal expert or what do you mean by saying, "we all know what will happen?" in regards to taking it to the states

[longship]

5. Presidential elections are governed by 50 different state laws.

That is a fact!

If you want to recount an entire presidential election, you have to file in every state, each with different laws.

In other words, it isn't going to happen.

[Maraya1969]

6. If you read the article on it they only want 4 states recounted.

I forget which ones but they were probably very high for Hillary and then Trump won. And she would win the electoral college if they found they were hacked.

[longship]

8. And that really worked out well for Al Gore.

Nobody hacked this election.

[politicaljunkie41910]

10. We don't know for certain that no one hacked this election. No one has investigated it fully yet.

There are people who are looking into that possibility though. With the Russian involvement in hacking the DNC and the Wikileaks hackings neither you nor I know anything for certain. If they can do it once, they can do it again in another 4 years. I'd rather know what we're up against sooner rather than later. Four of the battleground states Hillary lost have no independent verification process. Why is that tolerated in this day and age? If each party can spend upwards of a billion dollars on a presidential campaign these days, we damn sure can invest in some technology whose results can be independently validated.

[longship]

12. My simple request, is where's your evidence?

That's right, you have none, except that our choice lost, which makes such claims suspect. It's like Trump claiming that the election is rigged.

That makes it like conspiracy theory crapola.

[NYC Liberal]

13. 17 intelligence agencies have said Russia was involved in hacking DNC emails servers

in a direct and obvious attempt to influence the election.

That's certainly enough probable cause to suspect they were doing more and to investigate further.

[longship]

14. Well, do you have any evidence that they were doing more?

Nope.

You just don't like that Hillary lost -- nor do I. But some here take it further by delving into conspiracy theory land. Any anomalous data point means that the election was rigged.

That sounds a lot like what Drumpf was screeching the last few weeks before the election. I rejected that argument when he said it. It would be abject hypocrisy for me to take similar baseless claims seriously here.

There is no evidence of election rigging. "Hillary lost" is not a data point that supports that argument.

[Fast Walker 52]

16. how about the fact of almost every poll pre-election being wrong? WAY OFF

Even things like the national school kids election, which has always been right, was way off.

The fact that he got abnormally high votes in red counties, that would have been easier to rig because of their conservative bias.

[longship]

17. More anomaly hunting. Always a sign of a conspiracy theory.

And claiming that the national kids election is predictive is utter rubbish. It's predictive until it is not, is my explanation.

Oh! And he got abnormally high votes in red counties? Well, who could predict that a racist, sexist, xenophobe like Drumpf would produce that? That isn't even an anomaly.

You've got nothing. No actual evidence for a rigged election. Just like Drumpf for the past few weeks when he made similar claims, and thoroughly debunked here on DU.

Please stop.

[Fast Walker 52]

24. the anomaly is Trump being unexpectedly elected, with so many negatives and wrong polls and then

having Russian hackers helping his election. Those are facts. It's a reasonable idea to wonder if there was hacking of votes that helped him.

[longship]

25. You cannot hack paper ballots.

Which many states now use, including MI.

And anyway vote counting machines are not connected to the Internet. Plus, all steps in the voting process are under observation.

There is no fucking hacking. The only hacking is in peoples' conspiracy ladened brains.

Sorry.

[Fast Walker 52]

28. well, be sure to let them know that here

Last edited Thu Nov 17, 2016, 07:25 PM - Edit history (1)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512612786

[longship]

31. Again, I don't delve into conspiracy theories.

Sorry.

[Fast Walker 52]

32. I'm not saying you should

I'm saying you might want to present your view to that thread too

[longship]

33. The election is exactly what one would expect in a close contest.

One can wring ones hands, cry tears, and screech stolen election because of some anomalies all one wants. But this is the United States of America's electoral process. When an election is close, things get messy.

Some folks screech "rigged" and "stolen" -- Drumpf was even doing it before Election Day, a sure case that there wasn't -- and the rational people try to figure out why it was so close.

Folks have no case for their claims of a rigged election. None whatsoever.

[politicaljunkie41910]

37. None of the four battleground states in question had paper ballots. If they did, there would be a

paper trail. The 4 battle states in question had computerized votes. I'm sorry that I couldn't respond to your questioning of my "conspiracy laden brains" in a more timely manner but I'm babysitting my daughter's newborn so that she can work, and right now the newborn is dictating my schedule. Just because you don't believe hacking was a possibility doesn't mean it didn't happen any more than my belief that there is a strong possibility that it did is proof that it did happen. FTR, I'm not a conspiracy theorist by nature, and you've offered no evidence your 'brain' is any more qualified to state one way or another than mine. However, I'm not going to stick my head in the sand and ignore the facts and conclusions drawn by people who do this type of thing for a living, when they say that the data shows otherwise. But because you feel differently, don't think that your 'non-conspiracy brains' are any more proof that it didn't happen than mine are that it may have. I'm willing to adapt a wait and see attitude, but will also push for change. As I said before in my original post, we are not a banana republic. We spend too much money on elections as a nation to not have systems in place in all 50 states which are capable of producing results which can be tabulated, authenticated and replicated without question.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

39. Actually they do

at least partially

Florida - Paper ballots and electronic without paper trail
Michigan - Paper ballots
Pennsylvania - Paper ballots and electronic without paper trail
Wisconsin - Paper ballots and electronic with paper trail

[Maraya1969]

2. Here is a petition

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/810/285/388/

I don't care if it about state laws. This petition is about only 4 states

[politicaljunkie41910]

3. Thank you. I'm signing it and my husband will as well. Hope others will join in. At this point,

to borrow a phrase from Trump, what the hell have you got to lose?

[Sunsky]

11. Thanks I'm signing

[chimpymustgo]

35. Please post this to it's own thread. Are there any other efforts underway?

We cannot be quieted by the naysayers. I'm not ready to give into fascism quite to easily.

[Grey Lemercier]

7. you arent going to get them reviewed, nor overturned, Trump U is not going to get him impeached

that 13, 14 year old rape thing is really dodgy, who knows, but it will never amount to shit.

We all just will have to grin and bear it for 4, maybe 8 (god forbid!) years, plus accept that the SCOTUS is probably fucked for the next decade or 2 (I still have some hope on this).

We really need to get our shit together at state and local levels too. Dems pay way too little attention to midterms and state elections.

[DemonGoddess]

9. If we allow this theft to go unchallenged

I fear we won't survive as a COUNTRY.

[B Calm]

15. You do know we have a republican controlled congress?

[duffyduff]

18. A better suggestion is to put forward a petition and organize protests against CNN.

I am entirely serious about this. A petition should be online demanding the firing or resignation of election kingmaker Jeff Zucker. He is solely responsible for this travesty.

You are still judging this election by previous ones. That is a mistake.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

19. Just a point of fact

More than half of this nation did not vote for Hillary Clinton. She didn't get a majority of the popular vote.

[Sunriser13]

20. Wrong.

The tally right now is between one and two million votes ahead of the Rump in the popular vote...

[SickOfTheOnePct]

21. Which still doesn't mean she got the majority of the popular vote

Which means that yes, you are wrong.

Clinton: 61,993,136 47.9%
Trump: 60,948,836 47.1%

[Sunriser13]

22. By that reasoning then, it is just as correct to say

More than half of this nation did not vote for Donald Trump. He didn't get a majority of the popular vote.

The fact still stands that Hillary received more of the popular vote than Trump - or anyone else, for that matter.

Semantics aside, this is a very unsettling election for many reasons, not just the vote count. The GOP has worked for years to do whatever it took, legal or not, to gain every advantage possible. Voting rights have been blatantly gutted in so many ways it boggles the mind.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

23. I agree

No one got the majority of the popular vote, although Hillary got many more votes than Trump (plurality)

And I disagree that it's just semantics.

[lonestarnot]

26. You sound nuts to me.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

27. Yeah, I guess it's nuts

to say "Let's use facts".

[Bobbie Jo]

38. 1

Among other things...

[jmg257]

29. Can/WILL our (Repub) govt force states to do recounts against their state laws?

Simply because a bunch of people (how many members does DU have anyway?) aren't happy with the results?

I doubt it.


You want to see "2nd amendment" remedies, watch what happens IF somehow this election gets overturned due to unhappy Dems protesting the govt.




You don't have to be a "defeated bitch" (nice!), but you mayneed to come up with another way to fight.

[BainsBane]

30. Candidates can request a recount from the states

but they have to pay for them (unless the margin fits within the limits that the particular state will pay for a recount), and they cost a hell of a lot of money.

In places that don't have paper trails, a recount isn't possible. They can only make sure the tallies add up.

[KewlKat]

34. I think we should recount MI

According to the Michigan secretary of state's website, 4,873,033 voters cast ballots in the general election but 87,810 did not vote for president. Meanwhile, Trump won Michigan by 13,107 votes.

Did 80,000 plus vote without choosing a presidential choice? Seems awfully high. I'd think that should be looked into.

SOURCE: http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2016/11/thousands_of_alabama_voters_di.html

[FrenchieCat]

36. K&R