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Sadly I log on here and the first thing I see is an angry post bashing Hillary Clinton (Original Post) Cary Nov 2016 OP
We have a lot of work ahead of us Cary Nov 2016 #1
you don't think she had any resposiblity in her loss? Cobalt Violet Nov 2016 #2
I think scorpions will be scorpions Cary Nov 2016 #3
Yep. You NAILED IT. grossproffit Nov 2016 #30
She won the popular vote. cwydro Nov 2016 #8
Post removed Post removed Nov 2016 #16
Really? Then how did she win the actual vote? Because she beat Trump by a million and counting. Hekate Nov 2016 #25
Boom! sheshe2 Nov 2016 #68
Enough, please. kstewart33 Nov 2016 #75
I don't think the circular firing squad serves any purpose. pnwmom Nov 2016 #76
Yeah, they're back. Bobbie Jo Nov 2016 #4
It's what some worked hard for. They cut off their nose to spite their face. grossproffit Nov 2016 #31
Some things will never change mcar Nov 2016 #5
As soon as I logged on this morning, I got a jury summons! femmocrat Nov 2016 #6
What I've learned is nothing new Cary Nov 2016 #7
Some have returned from JPR, and are spewing their crap. Pathwalker Nov 2016 #12
Why would they bother? DFW Nov 2016 #36
They're gloating because their guy won, an rubbing salt in the wounds. Pathwalker Nov 2016 #47
If that's the reason.. DFW Nov 2016 #49
I posted over there JonLP24 Nov 2016 #56
I'm perfectly content to them hash it out among themselves DFW Nov 2016 #67
Two had an unexpected exit. sheshe2 Nov 2016 #69
I was away too long for that kenfrequed Nov 2016 #72
Welcome back, kenfequed. femmocrat Nov 2016 #85
Ignore them. cwydro Nov 2016 #9
They're part of our problem and I need to come to grips with this Cary Nov 2016 #13
I think that if the Hillary hate gets too vile (as if it's not already), cwydro Nov 2016 #17
That's what I've been doing Sunsky Nov 2016 #18
Exactly. cwydro Nov 2016 #21
Let's not be divisive. You can focus on other things. Coyotl Nov 2016 #10
Whom do you include in your "let's?" Cary Nov 2016 #14
Just like clockwork. The Sanders/Moore types are predictable. duffyduff Nov 2016 #11
This is, in my opinion, a silver lining Cary Nov 2016 #15
yep heaven05 Nov 2016 #28
It will get worse once their Trumpinfuhrer can't deliver on his promises. Ligyron Nov 2016 #74
old????? heaven05 Nov 2016 #77
Forget winter. The Russians are coming. phallon Nov 2016 #19
The Russians Are Coming, The Russians Are Coming! DFW Nov 2016 #43
Post removed Post removed Nov 2016 #20
Lovely Cary Nov 2016 #22
What is it you are looking for? DefenseLawyer Nov 2016 #26
You could try not being so rude to other DUers muriel_volestrangler Nov 2016 #34
Leopards don't change their spots Cary Nov 2016 #42
didn't worship any Clinton heaven05 Nov 2016 #29
I know what you mean. GoCubsGo Nov 2016 #23
She WON by a million votes and still counting, but let the ritual flogging continue! Hekate Nov 2016 #24
And by appealing to those 3 million, she'd lose 5 million in the center she already had. Lil Missy Nov 2016 #33
She didn't appeal to enough white dudes according to the Bernie types. duffyduff Nov 2016 #46
Many of those white dudes voted for Obama, not once, but twice. B Calm Nov 2016 #50
Ignore all of them. Get out your safety pin, put it on then contact your local Mosque. leftofcool Nov 2016 #27
Yeah. And they're just as bad as Trump supporters. n/t Lil Missy Nov 2016 #32
The Democratic party is on the edge of splitting and you're concerned about Hillary B Calm Nov 2016 #35
I have no idea what you think you're talking about Cary Nov 2016 #37
You need to get out more. B Calm Nov 2016 #38
I don't need the radical left. Cary Nov 2016 #41
Many of them did go away during the last election and we B Calm Nov 2016 #45
What are you trying to tell me? Cary Nov 2016 #51
I'm trying to tell you the Democratic party needs to change direction B Calm Nov 2016 #55
Right Cary Nov 2016 #57
Not interested in your bridge to New Jersey. But, B Calm Nov 2016 #60
So nice of you to accuse me. Cary Nov 2016 #61
Accuse you of what? B Calm Nov 2016 #63
Sure it is "splitting." duffyduff Nov 2016 #40
Okay, pretend there is no problem here. I don't want to see the party split, B Calm Nov 2016 #44
I am so notninterested in this rhetoric Cary Nov 2016 #54
Continue to ignore the truth. Hopefully Democratic pols don't seek your advice. B Calm Nov 2016 #58
Sounds a lot.like the LaRouchie who chased me down the street calling me a drug dealer Cary Nov 2016 #59
Okay, now you are compairing a life long democrat to the LaRouchies. B Calm Nov 2016 #62
Sorry, but you're giving me the same schtick Cary Nov 2016 #64
Misogyny is rampant, and it is nonpartisan. duffyduff Nov 2016 #39
Yes and it's sad Generator Nov 2016 #48
I agree that misogyny is the reason Trump "won". athena Nov 2016 #52
There's some misogyny going on, 4 sure and I hate it. Ligyron Nov 2016 #78
Hate won the day. Cary Nov 2016 #53
Low incomes plus debt plus a dash of racism and mysoginistic phallon Nov 2016 #65
I posted a "shoulda been Bernie" thread. I hope you don't count that as Hillary bashing. Bucky Nov 2016 #66
Oh good. And I can blame you for dragging her down just enough for.her to lose. Cary Nov 2016 #70
Odd kenfrequed Nov 2016 #71
Is there an actual equivalence to JPR? Cary Nov 2016 #73
*yawn* kenfrequed Nov 2016 #81
So then you agree with me that there is no actual equivalence to JPR Cary Nov 2016 #83
double *yawn* kenfrequed Nov 2016 #86
No equivalence to JPR. We agree. Cary Nov 2016 #87
Uhm... kenfrequed Nov 2016 #89
You disagree that sadly the first post I encountered when I logged on was bashing Hillary? Cary Nov 2016 #90
The premise kenfrequed Nov 2016 #93
My gift to you Cary Nov 2016 #96
Post removed Post removed Nov 2016 #79
Hillary wasn't the right candidate ThirdEye Nov 2016 #80
I got a post hidden for calling out a third party troll who then got PPR'd. Don't take the bait. nt JTFrog Nov 2016 #82
Good advice Cary Nov 2016 #84
More interested in railing against Democrats than against Trump frazzled Nov 2016 #88
I think a useful exercise would be to decide how we want to deal with oppositionalists Cary Nov 2016 #92
Given that President Obama warned us frazzled Nov 2016 #94
Irrational hate. It continues. NurseJackie Nov 2016 #91
I hear you. I was just able to get in and just wanted... tallahasseedem Nov 2016 #95

Response to cwydro (Reply #8)

kstewart33

(6,551 posts)
75. Enough, please.
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 10:06 AM
Nov 2016

Every candidate who has ever lost a race bears some responsibility for the loss. That is common sense.

However, the last thing we need as a community is a continuing chorus of "I told you so, I told you so."

If that's your motive, please take it elsewhere. Too many people, like myself, who worked weeks on the campaign, are mourning for what we lost.

We don't need it. We don't want it. It is a complete waste of time and it sabotages our community's need to HEAL NOW and begin to discuss what must be done to thwart the oncoming national disaster.

pnwmom

(108,977 posts)
76. I don't think the circular firing squad serves any purpose.
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 10:21 AM
Nov 2016

And it serves no purpose to think we could have put forward some better, more perfect candidate who wouldn't draw unfair attacks from the Rethugs. Hillary's flaws weren't the issue, and neither were her policies. The issues included millions of votes that were lost to voter suppression; a media that was more interested in ratings than in conveying the truth; and the last minute crucial action of the FBI.

mcar

(42,307 posts)
5. Some things will never change
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 10:17 AM
Nov 2016

I'm logging out now. I don't need to see the hate on this site, despite how much I missed many of you. Maybe it'll get better later.

femmocrat

(28,394 posts)
6. As soon as I logged on this morning, I got a jury summons!
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 11:27 AM
Nov 2016

Sigh.... what have we learned, DU?

I know that people are still upset and venting and it will take some time. But we have to start to rebuild. My understanding is that the administrators will grant a sort of "grace period" for people to get it all out, but then we really need to stop the infighting. For those who consider this too restrictive or akin to imposing an "echo chamber," maybe another site would be more suited to your style of disagreement.

I don't know... I just know that life was hell without DU last week and it is good to be back and to appreciate what we have here.


Cary

(11,746 posts)
7. What I've learned is nothing new
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 12:08 PM
Nov 2016

Radical leftists are not my friends. No matter how much I agree with them on substance they will always stab me in the back.

I cannot trust them, ever.

Pathwalker

(6,598 posts)
12. Some have returned from JPR, and are spewing their crap.
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 12:46 PM
Nov 2016

disgusting, vile, nasty, we know who they are.

DFW

(54,369 posts)
36. Why would they bother?
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 05:48 PM
Nov 2016

I only took a couple of brief looks, and I didn't pay much attention to the members' names, so, no, I don't know who they are. Once I saw what they were posting, it didn't really much matter to me who they were, other than people on a board I wouldn't be joining.

But I thought that the ones who left here to be there exclusively hated the attitude here. What possible reason could they have for coming back if it was only to re-spread the bile? Wasn't there enough of it over there to make them all happy?

Pathwalker

(6,598 posts)
47. They're gloating because their guy won, an rubbing salt in the wounds.
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 06:11 PM
Nov 2016

Like him, they get high on being cruel. IMO.

DFW

(54,369 posts)
49. If that's the reason..
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 06:15 PM
Nov 2016

Talk about poverty of the soul! That is one very sad reason indeed. I wouldn't want to inhabit the skin of anyone that possessed by rage.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
56. I posted over there
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 06:30 PM
Nov 2016

They have a troll problem but most of the former DUers weren't gloating because their guy won. Octafish and others have been posting Trump bashing articles, . I've been bashing Trump over there.

DFW

(54,369 posts)
67. I'm perfectly content to them hash it out among themselves
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 06:50 PM
Nov 2016

I looked a couple of times, over long intervals. Whichever posts it was I chanced upon, they just weren't my style.

I don't begrudge anyone for posting or belonging there, just as I don't begrudge anyone for liking lima beans.

But the kind of posts I saw there are definitely not for me, and I'm content to leave it at that. Veni, Vidi, Satis.

kenfrequed

(7,865 posts)
72. I was away too long for that
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 09:25 AM
Nov 2016

I voluntarily just left in May because of the mass return of all trolls.

So.. I think I can't do jury stuff.

femmocrat

(28,394 posts)
85. Welcome back, kenfequed.
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 12:08 PM
Nov 2016

I actually did two jury duties yesterday. I hope this forum doesn't become a place for people to bicker. I thought it was a place to reflect and analyze, not criticize. Maybe I'm wrong. I shall seek refuge in the Lounge until things cool down.

Cary

(11,746 posts)
13. They're part of our problem and I need to come to grips with this
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 12:59 PM
Nov 2016

It's in my nature to want to come together with like minded people and the radical left exploits that. I ignore them at my peril. They are not my friends. They will stab me in the back. They've proven that over and over.

Know your enemy.

 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
17. I think that if the Hillary hate gets too vile (as if it's not already),
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 02:23 PM
Nov 2016

that the admins will put a stop to it.

Just my opinion from reading what Skinner wrote about a more civil place for all of us.

Sunsky

(1,737 posts)
18. That's what I've been doing
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 02:35 PM
Nov 2016

I've been trashing and ignoring these pot stirrers. I have no time or patience for bs. Same ole arguments, it's monotonous and boring.

Cary

(11,746 posts)
14. Whom do you include in your "let's?"
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 01:01 PM
Nov 2016

If we are married to the radical left then I want a divorce.

 

duffyduff

(3,251 posts)
11. Just like clockwork. The Sanders/Moore types are predictable.
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 12:21 PM
Nov 2016

You can't pander to the ignorant white dudes and think you are going to get their votes. They were raised by bigots, many of them religious or military types that are authoritarian in outlook, and they think they deserve the best jobs because they are white males.

They have been a lost cause since the 1980s. Probably earlier, when you figure in the "hard hat" types who voted for Nixon.

Cary

(11,746 posts)
15. This is, in my opinion, a silver lining
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 01:02 PM
Nov 2016

They have been stewing and bubbling under the surface. They are a festering wound.

Now they are fully exposed and perhaps more vulnerable?

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
28. yep
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 04:45 PM
Nov 2016

got to find somrthing strong enough to clean up that festering sore that is systemically infecting and threatening to destroy us all. How do decent people marginalize the brownshirts that are on the march with a mandate from their trumpfuhrer? Red Hot sizzling iron to the wound, cauterize it? Excise it, cut it out and throw into the fire? What is going to heal american divisivness?

Ligyron

(7,629 posts)
74. It will get worse once their Trumpinfuhrer can't deliver on his promises.
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 09:59 AM
Nov 2016

If he actually manages to produce blue collar jobs on any significant scale it may get even worse still. Fortunately, I doubt that's going to happen except for a few construction jobs building his wall on the southern border.Which may not happen either.

I think the brown shirts pretty much have to disappear by attrition as they die off naturally. Many of them are old.

DFW

(54,369 posts)
43. The Russians Are Coming, The Russians Are Coming!
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 06:03 PM
Nov 2016


A friend of mine played the submarine captain! He had a lot more memorable roles, but that one was always my favorite.

Response to Cary (Original post)

 

DefenseLawyer

(11,101 posts)
26. What is it you are looking for?
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 04:14 PM
Nov 2016

We should all pretend that it's not our fault? That our candidate and our party and our message bear no responsibility for losing the Presidency to a carnival barker? Because somehow it's just not fair to criticize the Clintons? I think there is plenty of criticism to go around.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,311 posts)
34. You could try not being so rude to other DUers
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 05:42 PM
Nov 2016

You did give it the time of day - you posted to belittle a DUer.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
29. didn't worship any Clinton
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 04:49 PM
Nov 2016

just common sense told me she was light fucking years ahead of the trumpfuhrer that will 'make ameriKKKa great again'

GoCubsGo

(32,080 posts)
23. I know what you mean.
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 03:57 PM
Nov 2016

I got a jury summons within FIVE MINUTES of first logging in. It was a Clinton-bashing post. Hillary won the popular vote, and it will probably be by 2 million. I'm getting really sick of the "People didn't vote for her because she is a bad candidate" nonsense. The popular vote does not support that claim.

Hekate

(90,662 posts)
24. She WON by a million votes and still counting, but let the ritual flogging continue!
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 04:10 PM
Nov 2016

She obviously needed to appeal to three million more instead of only a million more than Trump. Burn her!

Lil Missy

(17,865 posts)
33. And by appealing to those 3 million, she'd lose 5 million in the center she already had.
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 05:32 PM
Nov 2016

In other words, the floggers, as you put it, aren't worth the effort. Not to mention, we've lost 2 elections now (Gore, Clinton) because of their ego-driven insistence to support and vote 3rd party.

 

duffyduff

(3,251 posts)
46. She didn't appeal to enough white dudes according to the Bernie types.
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 06:08 PM
Nov 2016

That is all women are for, basically sucking dick, whether literally or figuratively. The men must be put front and center of everything. Never mind these Trump white dudes are totally unreachable. They are basically unintelligent. They can't be changed because their mindset was put in there from the time they were children. They were raised by racist, sexist parents who think white men are entitled to the best jobs and that women and minorities "stole" "their" jobs away from them. They bitch about the illegals or undocumenteds and would kill them if they could get away with it, but never mind the reason these illegals or undocumenteds are here is because EMPLOYERS HIRE THEM. The scapegoating is completely misguided. Ditto for women, that many men can't cut it anymore whether going to college or being able to hold down a job and women outperform them. A lot of this mentality can also be found with the deranged dudes who join MRA or MGTOW groups, i.e, the manosphere.

It is the same attitude that was against affirmative action. These white dudes really think they got their privilege (and they will even deny they have privilege) because they "earned" it but in fact it was only because of their skin color and that they possessed dicks. Governments tried ever so politely to level the playing field in terms of opportunity, and these white dudes blew a gasket. How DARE anybody else get a piece of the American dream? It is for white dudes only. Try talking to these morons about affirmative action. Try bringing up veterans preference, which is in fact a form of affirmative action.

I did such a thing in one class I took about thirty years ago. I sarcastically said to the effect that while these guys were crying crocodile tears over affirmative action, I didn't hear them bitch about veterans preference. These guys were about ready to get up and strangle me, whining that they "put their lives on the line" for "their" country even if they had desk jobs at an American base. But see, veterans preference then (and largely still true now) mostly favored white dudes, so this form of affirmative action was okay.

You simply cannot fix stupid with these guys. They are hopeless. If they had ever been intelligent, they never, ever would have voted against their economic self-interest. They would have never voted for Reagan, who began the country's economic decline. But they keep voting for these types over and over and over again. I used to sympathize with them, but I don't anymore.

leftofcool

(19,460 posts)
27. Ignore all of them. Get out your safety pin, put it on then contact your local Mosque.
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 04:16 PM
Nov 2016

Get in contact with those who will need your help. We Democrats have work to do and it does not include pandering to some people.

 

B Calm

(28,762 posts)
35. The Democratic party is on the edge of splitting and you're concerned about Hillary
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 05:45 PM
Nov 2016

bashing, okay. . .

Cary

(11,746 posts)
41. I don't need the radical left.
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 05:55 PM
Nov 2016

If they're going somewhere that's great news. Go far, far away.

 

B Calm

(28,762 posts)
55. I'm trying to tell you the Democratic party needs to change direction
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 06:30 PM
Nov 2016

or it's going to split.

 

B Calm

(28,762 posts)
60. Not interested in your bridge to New Jersey. But,
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 06:36 PM
Nov 2016

I would like to save the Democratic party.

 

B Calm

(28,762 posts)
44. Okay, pretend there is no problem here. I don't want to see the party split,
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 06:03 PM
Nov 2016

but many do. I want the party to change direction and so does about half of the party. If it continues down the same path many of those seeking change will vote for a new party. There's a lot of talk going around right now wanting to form a new party and I think if that happens I'll be dead and gone before the Democratic party has a majority in congress or the White House.

 

B Calm

(28,762 posts)
62. Okay, now you are compairing a life long democrat to the LaRouchies.
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 06:40 PM
Nov 2016

Living in the rust belt I knew Hillary was going to lose and guess what, I was right.

 

duffyduff

(3,251 posts)
39. Misogyny is rampant, and it is nonpartisan.
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 05:53 PM
Nov 2016

Lots of people don't even understand what happened. The old explanations don't work anymore.

 

Generator

(7,770 posts)
48. Yes and it's sad
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 06:13 PM
Nov 2016

At this point I think we need to unite. And it's radical to me. The enemy is real. Racists, literal neo-Nazi's moving into the White House. Anybody that voted or didn't vote I don't even care at this point. Normally we shame the non voters, the 3rd parties on and on and I rail against the non voters especially. But you know what? Only one thing-are you against this threat named Donald Trump & Mike Pence and all his henchmen or not? I love Hillary and I feel bad for her. But now I feel worse for anyone that has to live in this country after January 20th, 2017.

athena

(4,187 posts)
52. I agree that misogyny is the reason Trump "won".
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 06:27 PM
Nov 2016

Unfortunately, the internet seems to be dominated by men who seem incapable of recognizing any kind of bigotry that doesn't hurt them directly.

Ligyron

(7,629 posts)
78. There's some misogyny going on, 4 sure and I hate it.
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 10:29 AM
Nov 2016

But then how the hell did Nikki Haley, Jan Brewer, Sarah fucking Palin and other women get elected into office?

OK, Palin was only elected Gov,like Brewer and Haley, but if misogyny was such a hindrance, how did they, and there are others like that hideous Blackburn woman, get the votes of their misogynistic base? Multiple times in some places.

They and the amazing, twice elected Barrack Obama managed to find away around the hate to get where they did somehow.

Maybe it had something to do with jobs this time and appealing to the huge majority of the population that are white males and the willing victims who married them? What? like 53% of white women voted for the admitted sexual predator Trump.

What's that all about?

We better figure a way around whatever misogyny does exit or we're toast.



phallon

(260 posts)
65. Low incomes plus debt plus a dash of racism and mysoginistic
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 06:46 PM
Nov 2016

bent equals a powerful cocktail. Same playbook on economy as Dems in 92, but then the economic message was based on facts even though racism and mysoginistic attitudes were the rule. Nothing logical will compete against "gut" for a while in this post-fact world.

What a world; technology is rampant and truth is pliable.


Bucky

(53,998 posts)
66. I posted a "shoulda been Bernie" thread. I hope you don't count that as Hillary bashing.
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 06:47 PM
Nov 2016

I detest it when Dems form a circular firing squad. I only want us to see that the real problem was we abandoned the working class. Some people will complain that means I think Clinton "should've appealed to more white men." But that's putting words in my mouth. When I write "working class" what I mean is "working class"--white, black, brown, all of us. The Dems aren't doing right by the working class of any color--not on the jobs front, not on the cost of college front, not on the home ownership front.

What that abandonment has meant politically is that we've opened a gap for a few race-baiting opportunists to exploit people's pain and worries to win power. This is what happened. Racism isn't a status quo, isn't an indelible moral stain like Original Sin. It's a symptom of demogoguery invading an economically vulnerable electorate.

Cary

(11,746 posts)
70. Oh good. And I can blame you for dragging her down just enough for.her to lose.
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 09:22 AM
Nov 2016

Why are you interested in that discussion? I certainly am not. I seriously doubt that Sanders would have fared better and my speculation negates yours.

I'm one of about 62 million people in a coalition. That's it. I will continue to do what I can and I don't owe Sanders' supporters anything. The rest of those 61,999,999 people can indulge your speculation if they wish. This one wants to move forward.

kenfrequed

(7,865 posts)
71. Odd
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 09:24 AM
Nov 2016

The first post I saw was one blaming supporters of Bernie Sanders for Hillary's loss.

Totally strange.

kenfrequed

(7,865 posts)
86. double *yawn*
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 12:09 PM
Nov 2016

I merely pointed out that I saw Bernie bashing posts first.

And they are very plentiful.

I am not making any statement about JPR, mainly because I have no idea what you are talking about.

kenfrequed

(7,865 posts)
89. Uhm...
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 12:18 PM
Nov 2016

I don't know who JPR is right now.

I disagree with the premise of your original post though.

Cary

(11,746 posts)
90. You disagree that sadly the first post I encountered when I logged on was bashing Hillary?
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 12:24 PM
Nov 2016

You're telling me that I need that?

????

kenfrequed

(7,865 posts)
93. The premise
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 12:36 PM
Nov 2016

Gotta read the whole sentence. My original comment was that I saw a Bernie bashing post first.

Then you started citing JPR (whoever the hell they are) and demanded an answer as to whether I agree with you without doing anything resembling elaboration as to who or what JPR is.

Seriously, are you posting for pay or something? One sentence responses? Brief, confusing snippets?

I honestly don't know what you are about.

Response to Cary (Original post)

ThirdEye

(204 posts)
80. Hillary wasn't the right candidate
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 11:18 AM
Nov 2016

Hindsight is 20/20, I get it. It turns out, she wasn't the right person. Most of the issues were external to her: the media's coverage of Trump, the Hillary-hate machine that already running, and misogyny. Some were not: her lack of charisma, her status as a corporate-owned politician, her making a stupid decision to use a personal email server (objectively bad decision - but I don't agree it's the kind of issue the media turned it into), etc. Then there were things she could control that were negatives to many, but positives to others: abortion, LGBT rights, healthcare, fair and equal pay, the minimum wage etc.

Still, she wasn't the right candidate. It's worth examining and reflecting on this so we don't screw up again.

IMO, this is partly her fault given the DNC's collusion towards ensuring she was the only real viable primary candidate.

Can't we examine these things? It's not all about looking forward... you can shape the future by reflecting on the past.

 

JTFrog

(14,274 posts)
82. I got a post hidden for calling out a third party troll who then got PPR'd. Don't take the bait. nt
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 11:39 AM
Nov 2016

frazzled

(18,402 posts)
88. More interested in railing against Democrats than against Trump
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 12:15 PM
Nov 2016

It doesn't matter that she got more than a million more votes. She was horrible. But silence on Trump.

It has always been thus from a large contingent on DU. If she had "won" they would have been right back here decrying her every move the moment her transition team was assembled, just as they did for Obama.

Some people's only political stance is to be oppositional.

Cary

(11,746 posts)
92. I think a useful exercise would be to decide how we want to deal with oppositionalists
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 12:31 PM
Nov 2016

I do think they hurt us. Of course I can never prove that they lost this election and they will never accept accountability anyway, as they still don't own their role in electing President Bush.

My suggestion is to demand that they sh** or get off the pot. If their alleged ideology is so superior, then they need to build it from the ground up. If they can do that then I'd be more than happy to step aside and let them have at it with the Democratic Party. They need institutions. They need candidates for local offices. They need lots and lots of that money that they say they hate, and I'm certain that part will sink them.

But go for it. Have at it. I dare them to show me that I'm wrong, that they're functional and capable. Show me that and I'll tip my hat and follow right along. Honestly.

frazzled

(18,402 posts)
94. Given that President Obama warned us
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 12:37 PM
Nov 2016

that just a few votes in each precinct (even 4 or 5) could turn a close election (he gave the example of how that was the case in North Carolina, which he won in 2008 but lost in 2012), I also hold the opinion that they may well have lost the election for us by not voting or voting for a third party. It doesn't take a mass movement: it's flipping precinct by precinct by a handful of votes--or non-votes.

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