2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumSadly I log on here and the first thing I see is an angry post bashing Hillary Clinton
Last edited Thu Nov 17, 2016, 12:33 PM - Edit history (1)
Like I need that?
Cary
(11,746 posts)We don't need weak links.
Cobalt Violet
(9,905 posts)Cary
(11,746 posts)And I think I made a mistake in letting my guard down
grossproffit
(5,591 posts)Great summation.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Perhaps you weren't aware.
Response to cwydro (Reply #8)
Post removed
Hekate
(90,662 posts)Love you.
kstewart33
(6,551 posts)Every candidate who has ever lost a race bears some responsibility for the loss. That is common sense.
However, the last thing we need as a community is a continuing chorus of "I told you so, I told you so."
If that's your motive, please take it elsewhere. Too many people, like myself, who worked weeks on the campaign, are mourning for what we lost.
We don't need it. We don't want it. It is a complete waste of time and it sabotages our community's need to HEAL NOW and begin to discuss what must be done to thwart the oncoming national disaster.
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)And it serves no purpose to think we could have put forward some better, more perfect candidate who wouldn't draw unfair attacks from the Rethugs. Hillary's flaws weren't the issue, and neither were her policies. The issues included millions of votes that were lost to voter suppression; a media that was more interested in ratings than in conveying the truth; and the last minute crucial action of the FBI.
Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)For the long awaited victory lap.
grossproffit
(5,591 posts)mcar
(42,307 posts)I'm logging out now. I don't need to see the hate on this site, despite how much I missed many of you. Maybe it'll get better later.
femmocrat
(28,394 posts)Sigh.... what have we learned, DU?
I know that people are still upset and venting and it will take some time. But we have to start to rebuild. My understanding is that the administrators will grant a sort of "grace period" for people to get it all out, but then we really need to stop the infighting. For those who consider this too restrictive or akin to imposing an "echo chamber," maybe another site would be more suited to your style of disagreement.
I don't know... I just know that life was hell without DU last week and it is good to be back and to appreciate what we have here.
Cary
(11,746 posts)Radical leftists are not my friends. No matter how much I agree with them on substance they will always stab me in the back.
I cannot trust them, ever.
Pathwalker
(6,598 posts)disgusting, vile, nasty, we know who they are.
DFW
(54,369 posts)I only took a couple of brief looks, and I didn't pay much attention to the members' names, so, no, I don't know who they are. Once I saw what they were posting, it didn't really much matter to me who they were, other than people on a board I wouldn't be joining.
But I thought that the ones who left here to be there exclusively hated the attitude here. What possible reason could they have for coming back if it was only to re-spread the bile? Wasn't there enough of it over there to make them all happy?
Pathwalker
(6,598 posts)Like him, they get high on being cruel. IMO.
DFW
(54,369 posts)Talk about poverty of the soul! That is one very sad reason indeed. I wouldn't want to inhabit the skin of anyone that possessed by rage.
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)They have a troll problem but most of the former DUers weren't gloating because their guy won. Octafish and others have been posting Trump bashing articles, . I've been bashing Trump over there.
DFW
(54,369 posts)I looked a couple of times, over long intervals. Whichever posts it was I chanced upon, they just weren't my style.
I don't begrudge anyone for posting or belonging there, just as I don't begrudge anyone for liking lima beans.
But the kind of posts I saw there are definitely not for me, and I'm content to leave it at that. Veni, Vidi, Satis.
sheshe2
(83,749 posts)kenfrequed
(7,865 posts)I voluntarily just left in May because of the mass return of all trolls.
So.. I think I can't do jury stuff.
femmocrat
(28,394 posts)I actually did two jury duties yesterday. I hope this forum doesn't become a place for people to bicker. I thought it was a place to reflect and analyze, not criticize. Maybe I'm wrong. I shall seek refuge in the Lounge until things cool down.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)They'll move on after they get their jollies I imagine.
Cary
(11,746 posts)It's in my nature to want to come together with like minded people and the radical left exploits that. I ignore them at my peril. They are not my friends. They will stab me in the back. They've proven that over and over.
Know your enemy.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)that the admins will put a stop to it.
Just my opinion from reading what Skinner wrote about a more civil place for all of us.
Sunsky
(1,737 posts)I've been trashing and ignoring these pot stirrers. I have no time or patience for bs. Same ole arguments, it's monotonous and boring.
And pathetically pointless.
Welcome to DU!
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)Cary
(11,746 posts)If we are married to the radical left then I want a divorce.
duffyduff
(3,251 posts)You can't pander to the ignorant white dudes and think you are going to get their votes. They were raised by bigots, many of them religious or military types that are authoritarian in outlook, and they think they deserve the best jobs because they are white males.
They have been a lost cause since the 1980s. Probably earlier, when you figure in the "hard hat" types who voted for Nixon.
Cary
(11,746 posts)They have been stewing and bubbling under the surface. They are a festering wound.
Now they are fully exposed and perhaps more vulnerable?
got to find somrthing strong enough to clean up that festering sore that is systemically infecting and threatening to destroy us all. How do decent people marginalize the brownshirts that are on the march with a mandate from their trumpfuhrer? Red Hot sizzling iron to the wound, cauterize it? Excise it, cut it out and throw into the fire? What is going to heal american divisivness?
Ligyron
(7,629 posts)If he actually manages to produce blue collar jobs on any significant scale it may get even worse still. Fortunately, I doubt that's going to happen except for a few construction jobs building his wall on the southern border.Which may not happen either.
I think the brown shirts pretty much have to disappear by attrition as they die off naturally. Many of them are old.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)not around here.....they are still yippin it up. I sure hope you're right.
phallon
(260 posts)DFW
(54,369 posts)A friend of mine played the submarine captain! He had a lot more memorable roles, but that one was always my favorite.
Response to Cary (Original post)
Post removed
Cary
(11,746 posts)DefenseLawyer
(11,101 posts)We should all pretend that it's not our fault? That our candidate and our party and our message bear no responsibility for losing the Presidency to a carnival barker? Because somehow it's just not fair to criticize the Clintons? I think there is plenty of criticism to go around.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,311 posts)You did give it the time of day - you posted to belittle a DUer.
Cary
(11,746 posts)And scorpions will.be scorpions
heaven05
(18,124 posts)just common sense told me she was light fucking years ahead of the trumpfuhrer that will 'make ameriKKKa great again'
GoCubsGo
(32,080 posts)I got a jury summons within FIVE MINUTES of first logging in. It was a Clinton-bashing post. Hillary won the popular vote, and it will probably be by 2 million. I'm getting really sick of the "People didn't vote for her because she is a bad candidate" nonsense. The popular vote does not support that claim.
Hekate
(90,662 posts)She obviously needed to appeal to three million more instead of only a million more than Trump. Burn her!
Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)In other words, the floggers, as you put it, aren't worth the effort. Not to mention, we've lost 2 elections now (Gore, Clinton) because of their ego-driven insistence to support and vote 3rd party.
duffyduff
(3,251 posts)That is all women are for, basically sucking dick, whether literally or figuratively. The men must be put front and center of everything. Never mind these Trump white dudes are totally unreachable. They are basically unintelligent. They can't be changed because their mindset was put in there from the time they were children. They were raised by racist, sexist parents who think white men are entitled to the best jobs and that women and minorities "stole" "their" jobs away from them. They bitch about the illegals or undocumenteds and would kill them if they could get away with it, but never mind the reason these illegals or undocumenteds are here is because EMPLOYERS HIRE THEM. The scapegoating is completely misguided. Ditto for women, that many men can't cut it anymore whether going to college or being able to hold down a job and women outperform them. A lot of this mentality can also be found with the deranged dudes who join MRA or MGTOW groups, i.e, the manosphere.
It is the same attitude that was against affirmative action. These white dudes really think they got their privilege (and they will even deny they have privilege) because they "earned" it but in fact it was only because of their skin color and that they possessed dicks. Governments tried ever so politely to level the playing field in terms of opportunity, and these white dudes blew a gasket. How DARE anybody else get a piece of the American dream? It is for white dudes only. Try talking to these morons about affirmative action. Try bringing up veterans preference, which is in fact a form of affirmative action.
I did such a thing in one class I took about thirty years ago. I sarcastically said to the effect that while these guys were crying crocodile tears over affirmative action, I didn't hear them bitch about veterans preference. These guys were about ready to get up and strangle me, whining that they "put their lives on the line" for "their" country even if they had desk jobs at an American base. But see, veterans preference then (and largely still true now) mostly favored white dudes, so this form of affirmative action was okay.
You simply cannot fix stupid with these guys. They are hopeless. If they had ever been intelligent, they never, ever would have voted against their economic self-interest. They would have never voted for Reagan, who began the country's economic decline. But they keep voting for these types over and over and over again. I used to sympathize with them, but I don't anymore.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)leftofcool
(19,460 posts)Get in contact with those who will need your help. We Democrats have work to do and it does not include pandering to some people.
Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)B Calm
(28,762 posts)bashing, okay. . .
Cary
(11,746 posts)B Calm
(28,762 posts)Cary
(11,746 posts)If they're going somewhere that's great news. Go far, far away.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)know how that turned out!
Cary
(11,746 posts)That I need to be codependent?
No thanks.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)or it's going to split.
Can I interest you in a bridge in New Jersey?
B Calm
(28,762 posts)I would like to save the Democratic party.
Cary
(11,746 posts)B Calm
(28,762 posts)Not having an open mind why Hillary lost?
duffyduff
(3,251 posts)Only in your dreams.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)but many do. I want the party to change direction and so does about half of the party. If it continues down the same path many of those seeking change will vote for a new party. There's a lot of talk going around right now wanting to form a new party and I think if that happens I'll be dead and gone before the Democratic party has a majority in congress or the White House.
Cary
(11,746 posts)And I am totally unimpressed.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)Cary
(11,746 posts)B Calm
(28,762 posts)Living in the rust belt I knew Hillary was going to lose and guess what, I was right.
Cary
(11,746 posts)Same tactic.
duffyduff
(3,251 posts)Lots of people don't even understand what happened. The old explanations don't work anymore.
Generator
(7,770 posts)At this point I think we need to unite. And it's radical to me. The enemy is real. Racists, literal neo-Nazi's moving into the White House. Anybody that voted or didn't vote I don't even care at this point. Normally we shame the non voters, the 3rd parties on and on and I rail against the non voters especially. But you know what? Only one thing-are you against this threat named Donald Trump & Mike Pence and all his henchmen or not? I love Hillary and I feel bad for her. But now I feel worse for anyone that has to live in this country after January 20th, 2017.
athena
(4,187 posts)Unfortunately, the internet seems to be dominated by men who seem incapable of recognizing any kind of bigotry that doesn't hurt them directly.
Ligyron
(7,629 posts)But then how the hell did Nikki Haley, Jan Brewer, Sarah fucking Palin and other women get elected into office?
OK, Palin was only elected Gov,like Brewer and Haley, but if misogyny was such a hindrance, how did they, and there are others like that hideous Blackburn woman, get the votes of their misogynistic base? Multiple times in some places.
They and the amazing, twice elected Barrack Obama managed to find away around the hate to get where they did somehow.
Maybe it had something to do with jobs this time and appealing to the huge majority of the population that are white males and the willing victims who married them? What? like 53% of white women voted for the admitted sexual predator Trump.
What's that all about?
We better figure a way around whatever misogyny does exit or we're toast.
Cary
(11,746 posts)phallon
(260 posts)bent equals a powerful cocktail. Same playbook on economy as Dems in 92, but then the economic message was based on facts even though racism and mysoginistic attitudes were the rule. Nothing logical will compete against "gut" for a while in this post-fact world.
What a world; technology is rampant and truth is pliable.
Bucky
(53,998 posts)I detest it when Dems form a circular firing squad. I only want us to see that the real problem was we abandoned the working class. Some people will complain that means I think Clinton "should've appealed to more white men." But that's putting words in my mouth. When I write "working class" what I mean is "working class"--white, black, brown, all of us. The Dems aren't doing right by the working class of any color--not on the jobs front, not on the cost of college front, not on the home ownership front.
What that abandonment has meant politically is that we've opened a gap for a few race-baiting opportunists to exploit people's pain and worries to win power. This is what happened. Racism isn't a status quo, isn't an indelible moral stain like Original Sin. It's a symptom of demogoguery invading an economically vulnerable electorate.
Cary
(11,746 posts)Why are you interested in that discussion? I certainly am not. I seriously doubt that Sanders would have fared better and my speculation negates yours.
I'm one of about 62 million people in a coalition. That's it. I will continue to do what I can and I don't owe Sanders' supporters anything. The rest of those 61,999,999 people can indulge your speculation if they wish. This one wants to move forward.
The first post I saw was one blaming supporters of Bernie Sanders for Hillary's loss.
Totally strange.
Cary
(11,746 posts)You being the expert on equivalence and all.
Was there an actual question? Or are you just stirring?
Cary
(11,746 posts)Thanks.
kenfrequed
(7,865 posts)I merely pointed out that I saw Bernie bashing posts first.
And they are very plentiful.
I am not making any statement about JPR, mainly because I have no idea what you are talking about.
Cary
(11,746 posts)Thanks.
I don't know who JPR is right now.
I disagree with the premise of your original post though.
Cary
(11,746 posts)You're telling me that I need that?
????
kenfrequed
(7,865 posts)Gotta read the whole sentence. My original comment was that I saw a Bernie bashing post first.
Then you started citing JPR (whoever the hell they are) and demanded an answer as to whether I agree with you without doing anything resembling elaboration as to who or what JPR is.
Seriously, are you posting for pay or something? One sentence responses? Brief, confusing snippets?
I honestly don't know what you are about.
Cary
(11,746 posts)Response to Cary (Original post)
Post removed
ThirdEye
(204 posts)Hindsight is 20/20, I get it. It turns out, she wasn't the right person. Most of the issues were external to her: the media's coverage of Trump, the Hillary-hate machine that already running, and misogyny. Some were not: her lack of charisma, her status as a corporate-owned politician, her making a stupid decision to use a personal email server (objectively bad decision - but I don't agree it's the kind of issue the media turned it into), etc. Then there were things she could control that were negatives to many, but positives to others: abortion, LGBT rights, healthcare, fair and equal pay, the minimum wage etc.
Still, she wasn't the right candidate. It's worth examining and reflecting on this so we don't screw up again.
IMO, this is partly her fault given the DNC's collusion towards ensuring she was the only real viable primary candidate.
Can't we examine these things? It's not all about looking forward... you can shape the future by reflecting on the past.
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)Thanks JP.
frazzled
(18,402 posts)It doesn't matter that she got more than a million more votes. She was horrible. But silence on Trump.
It has always been thus from a large contingent on DU. If she had "won" they would have been right back here decrying her every move the moment her transition team was assembled, just as they did for Obama.
Some people's only political stance is to be oppositional.
Cary
(11,746 posts)I do think they hurt us. Of course I can never prove that they lost this election and they will never accept accountability anyway, as they still don't own their role in electing President Bush.
My suggestion is to demand that they sh** or get off the pot. If their alleged ideology is so superior, then they need to build it from the ground up. If they can do that then I'd be more than happy to step aside and let them have at it with the Democratic Party. They need institutions. They need candidates for local offices. They need lots and lots of that money that they say they hate, and I'm certain that part will sink them.
But go for it. Have at it. I dare them to show me that I'm wrong, that they're functional and capable. Show me that and I'll tip my hat and follow right along. Honestly.
frazzled
(18,402 posts)that just a few votes in each precinct (even 4 or 5) could turn a close election (he gave the example of how that was the case in North Carolina, which he won in 2008 but lost in 2012), I also hold the opinion that they may well have lost the election for us by not voting or voting for a third party. It doesn't take a mass movement: it's flipping precinct by precinct by a handful of votes--or non-votes.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)tallahasseedem
(6,716 posts)support and a community. Damn.