2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumQuestion for DUers ...
Which issue do you consider as more important/pressing:
1. The NSA's antics
2. The economy
Second Question:
Would your answer change if you were/are unemployed/under-employed.
The reason I ask is to gauge where DUers stand relative to the general American public. It seems that the only place I hear about the travesty that is this NSA thing is on the internets; whereas, in real life, I frequently hear about the economy (i.e., unemployment/under employment, not being able to make ends meet).
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msongs
(67,406 posts)and people in desperate financial condition don't have time for the niceties of the newly elected administration perpetuating policies of predecessors.
personally I think that more than one thing at a time can be "pressing" and dealt with.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)But thanks any way.
Kali
(55,008 posts)I think economy is more immediate and pressing, NSA is actually more important in the bigger picture.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)for responding.
Another question:
Do most voters live in the immediate or the bigger picture?
Kali
(55,008 posts)especially if times are hard. it is a hell of a lot easier to look at big pictures when you are comfortable.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)So shouldn't bread and butter issues be where Democrats live in the run up to 2014?
Kali
(55,008 posts)I think many people are capable of multitasking and having concerns about different levels of issues. In terms of a get out the vote push, I am sure no expert but would assume different locals require different approaches for sure.
Rural poor obviously would like some good news about the economy, where comfortable middleclass liberals may not be as concerned.
pscot
(21,024 posts)but that doesn't mean it's OK to screw over them while they're looking the other way.
pscot
(21,024 posts)Except maybe in-so-far as the billions spent on surveillance crowds out infrastructure spending that might actually generate more jobs. It's bad enough being out of work without having your government spying on you into the bargain.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)you are out of work, do you really care about the government spying on you?
pscot
(21,024 posts)out of work.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)But please stop with the erroneous 4th Amendment rights argument. This isn't a Constitutional issue ... the NSA is acting within the law as written.
But that said, I ask again, if you are scrapping to eat, do you really care whether the government is "spying" on you?
JustAnotherGen
(31,823 posts)Add to it - if your fellow Americans are hungry - where is your heart?
bemildred
(90,061 posts)1.) The NSA
2.) The need to eat is always more pressing than politics
I will add that I think the NSA's antics are going to affect the economy, and probably not in a good way.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)about the NSA thing affecting the economy.
But if the need to eat is more pressing than politics, shouldn't that be where Democrats live in the run up to 2014?
bemildred
(90,061 posts)I think the NSA thing is a big deal in one sense and piffle and wind in another, but it's not up to me or it never would have happened at all and we would be talking about the economy. And as we agreed, I think we are going to be talking about the economy ...
Igel
(35,309 posts)Not sure what is there. But not those.
But economy ranks higher than NSA. It's on the mend. I just hope nobody tries to fix it and instead of repairing it neuters it.
If I were out of work, the economy would certainly be "job 1" and would clearly be in my top 5. I still wouldn't want the people trying to fix it.
Ten years ago, perhaps the NSA mess would have been in my top 5. But I've processed and worked through things. We have a bunch of bumbling bobble-heads in intelligence, for the most part: They have all this tech, all this information, and if they manage to get anything useful out of it, it's not all that obvious at all. Yeah. I'm scared. But not at the level of metadata collection or foreign email monitoring.
Not that I especially think Snowden's all that. I still have this mental picture of him holed up at the capsule hotel at Sheremet'yevo cutting and pasting graphics to produce his next pptx file. Can't quite shake that image.
Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)
unionthug777
(740 posts)though I am working 3 hours away from home. would prefer to be home instead of on the road. but, I have to pay bills and take care of my family. they can lo at my bank account if they want....not much in there !! 
Jamaal510
(10,893 posts)2. I am unemployed right now, so no. I have no job and must rely on federal money, so if the economy goes South, so does the money I'm receiving.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)with this anemic response level (Hey ... I recently found that 31 "Star Members" have me on ignore) ... I think my point is being proven ... the DU liberty concern is not the primary concern of people in real life.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)The huge restrictive conservative owned Gov at the most local of levels is the most restrictive of personal freedoms. All the focus is at the Federal level of Gov. Everyone ignores much of the States and all of the local level corruption.
If ignorance is strength, then I'm the world strongest man.”
~ George "Dub-ya Nukyulur Wur" Bush on ignorance
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)People are starving, looking for shelter, jobs, etc. They don't have time to be worrried about this overblown NSA story.
polichick
(37,152 posts)
mbee
(1,140 posts)especially with regard to health care. The really sad reality is that people vote against their own interests. I see so many cases of people who hate the poor and take up for big business. I am a tolerant person, but I find it most difficult to tolerate dumb people and there are a lot of them out there!
craigmatic
(4,510 posts)
Fearless
(18,421 posts)And ALL may be addressed at the same time.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)To many citizens trapped in food deserts, where they eat less healthy and spend more. Because the 'corner stores' are the only grocery places within walking distance.
Many local communities people are prevented from self-employment, home businesses by neighborhood association, local ordinances, excessive high permit fees, local zoning rules, county easement use bans for 'national security' land use.
States should take control over all the tiny local regulations that prevent locals from self-employment. Remove the barriers. This would really boost the local economy. If the states won't stop the over regulations, perhaps the Federal gov would enforce the liberty freedoms and remove local over-regulation, as unconstitutional.
State/Federal health and safety laws should be enough regulation.
Chan790
(20,176 posts)My answer wouldn't change if I were independently wealthy and never had to work again.
I just don't have outrage about the NSA's "antics"...it's not like I found anything out that I didn't already know: the people spying on us are spying on us in the exact same way they've been open about how they're spying on us for the past decade. Details and content may have been revealed but the framework has been transparent all along.
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)I'd still say the economy even though I'm not directly affected by it I will be in a few years. As soon as I have my doctorate in hand I will hopefully be teaching at an online school while also working here. A close second would be education.
Always Randy
(1,059 posts)of course the natural evolution is today's NSA---I am not surprised by this-----but what's worse is that Snowden's information is probably tardy compared to our kid's facebook pages ---as far as the economy---that is always foremost ---not with some of us----but the country in general ---people are worried about financial security more than military security--------otherwise no on would step inside WalMart
Beacool
(30,249 posts)By comparison, everything else is a distraction. Immigration, NSA, IRS, etc. are nothing compared to people's concerns about the economy. Jobs have disappeared and equivalent, good paying jobs are very hard to find. There's a pervasive unease about the future, even people who are employed feel it.
For the record, I work for a Fortune 100 and still have a job. Although there have been layoffs company wide.
TBF
(32,062 posts)think about Maslow's hierarchy of needs. You've got to have the basics covered (levels 1/2) before you can worry about morality (level 5).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs
Xyzse
(8,217 posts)I consider the NSA antics a distraction. It is one of those hot button issues that people have very strong opinions about but don't have an easy solution. To me, it is the same type of thing that politicians and others bring up to gum up any sort of progress in anything.
This is a problem that should be tackled constantly but on the background. Which it has been, and why the leaks are of no surprise or import, other than the fact that it was exaggerated at the beginning which made the issue sensational.
In regards to America's defense and ability to gather information, one must figure out a balance between privacy. This is something discussed in Congress and shown in C-Span. It is good that people discuss it, but I don't see why one should make it the primary focus at this time. The way it has been presented created misinformation and strong opinions that don't budge much. It is something best discussed with cooler heads so that some sort of compromise could be reached.
The way it has become, it has become like I said, a distraction issue that stops us from doing anything. Like when the ACA was being discussed, they added the issue of abortion in it to slow down the process. Same thing here. We are dealing with the economy and other important issues, this has become one more topic that impedes whatever economic progress we can have.
Look, with this, the Republicans passed a Farm bill without any food stamps. They messed up on Student Loans. Those are immediate concerns, as what has been done in regards to all this dumb deficit spending is that we cut on muscle. Republicans crow about deficit spending, and Obama has reduced the deficit quite a bit, and it has cut on the muscle beyond the fat.
Hippo_Tron
(25,453 posts)A multi-trillion dollar economy like the United States' rises and falls based on a myriad of factors that are beyond the scope of fiscal or monetary policy. Government can ease the suffering when people fall on tough times and it can strategically invest in certain things that are beneficial to society. But its powers to change economic conditions overall are very limited.
The NSA issue is something, however, that the government can fix.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)wholly within the control of the government? And don't they have a huge impact on the economy?
Hippo_Tron
(25,453 posts)A huge impact would be if there was some fiscal policy that could take us back to the economy we had in 1999. That's what people want when they say they want government to fix the economy. Unfortunately, that's also completely impossible.
Government can (and should) provide aid for those who are going through tough times and it can invest in things that are good for the country. It can't bring us back to 3% unemployment. That will have to happen on its own.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)question then the second is why are we padding private security firm's wallets for a bunch of furtive, unproven, shadowy activities when they are not adept enough at security to keep the likes of Ed Snowden from strolling out the door with a pile of secrets? We simply can not afford to be throwing money at problems without oversight, without proven results, without an eye to establishing sustainable and effective security policies. You keep speaking of people being hungry, actually hungry but you seem to be using this human suffering as reason to flush billions every month unchecked and without so much as discussing it. 'People are hungry, let's keep using currency as kindling and toilet paper' is not in my view a sane or even humane thing to propose.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I asked a binary question ... that has nothing to do with "flush(ing) billions every month unchecked and without so much as discussing it."
I, personal, believe the economy far surpasses the NSA ... for a number of reasons. But, if you chose the economy, wouldn't that lead to a discussion of where stimulus money can come from? If you chose, the NSA ... does that even touch on the economy?
AllINeedIsCoffee
(772 posts)
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)Both are important.
And I am under-employed.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)would you rather congress address: the economy or the NSA thing?
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)That is supposed to be their job.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)
Rowdyboy
(22,057 posts)And our side is drowning in lies and Republican bile paid for the Koch brothers and their loathsome ilk.
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)I am employed, but I think it's still a major issue.
NSA, to me, is major, too, but not more than the economy at this point.
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)JustAnotherGen
(31,823 posts)2. The Economy
And I'm not under employed - and I have not been unemployed at all since the Recession. If anything - I prospered and seen significant year over year increases in my income.
However - Economy goes to basic human needs. Food, shelter, clothing, warmth in the winter, medicine, etc. etc.
Humans first.