2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumSo this is what Obama doesn’t understand according to many on DU.
That the Saudis are gonna be very helpful because they see an opportunity for spiking oil prices.
That Foreign Banks including ours, will be moving into Syria as soon as things settle..
That the Republicans who will vote no..will become the new anti-nation building Peace Party
That the limited strikes will turn into a all out land war after a couple of our planes are shot down.
This escalation will be the direct result of our new Peace Party advocates calling for regime change in are own country. That Obama will be labeled as the worst military executive this country has ever known.
That our markets will go up as a direct result of this war... reminding all those who feel Obama works for the 1% are in reality were correct..
Do you people really believe Obama is not a step ahead of all of this crap?
That all of a sudden he had become a war mongerer in order to..(.I dont even know what to put here.)
That he is so blind that he has little understanding of what you naysayers are trying to warn everyone about on this site..
I will stand by our President because I truly believe that he is one of the greatest strategists this country has ever known.. If I am proven wrong and my threshold is low when I put myself on the line.. I will be the first to admit it and move on to Elizabeth Warren for President in 2016.. In the meantime your negativity towards Obama will help to ensure a Republican take over of the House, Senate and Presidency by the end of that year. Chris Christie with a right wing Senate and a teabagger House will inflict such damage on this nation that it will take decades to repair...S.S., Medicare, programs for the poor will be effected almost immediately.Climate change will be completely ignored and Privatization of Schools, Beaches, and National Parks will follow... This is only a small example of what will happen..
Democracyinkind
(4,015 posts)I'm way more critical of Obama than most, but I refuse to believe that the Syria issue is driven by such considerations. If so, he's clearly unfit for the presidency. To me it's obvious that Syria doesn't have much to do with grand strategy but rather with the wishes of a select group of people who seem to frame debates and get to make decisions no matter which party is currently in power.
btw - Judith Warren? Either I'm totally clueless or you've given yourself away with that. Or it was an honest mistake. Whatever.
busterbrown
(8,515 posts)I have no idea how any Progressive Dem. could deal with that..
Turning the REpublican Party into the Party of Peace is a big deal to those who are uniformed middle of the road voters.
Judith Warren is a personal friend.. Nice job Buster..
leveymg
(36,418 posts)I admit, if the regime change strategy pushed most strongly within the Admin. by Hillary and Gen. Petraeus was to change that status quo, and Obama signed off on it, then Obama is, indeed, one hell of a strategist.
frazzled
(18,402 posts)Your post has a really unfounded presupposition: that the Obama administration fomented the popular uprisings in Libya and Syria (and I suppose, by extension, Egypt). That they somehow orchestrated this. That somehow, without prodding by the US, these uprisings against repressive regimes wouldn't have happened. That, my friend, is nowhere documented.
I'm sorry you pine for the days of Muammar Gaddafi. He was so swell, wasn't he.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)Last edited Sun Sep 8, 2013, 07:33 AM - Edit history (1)
The presuppositions are founded in fact. The State Dept and CIA were instrumental, in both cases. I'll respond tomorrow.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)You're leaving out the part about snipers and attacks on policemen and gov't buildings that provoked
the military crackdowns. Can't blame you really, that omission is a common thread in coverage of events that led up to the start of the civil wars in both Libya and Syria in the early months of 2011.
Here's what you and many others have omitted about Syria. The first weeks of open protests and government reaction were largely nonviolent, and remained that way until mid-March, 2011 when opposition mass demonstrations turned violent and gun battles with police started in the southern city of Daraa:
No significant events listed in the Syria Timeline between Feb. 27 and March 6, 2011: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Syrian_civil_war_%28January%E2%80%93April_2011%29
First opposition mass protests weren't even until March 15. There was one reported fatal shooting on March 20 in Daraa when protestors set fire to buildings housing the ruling Ba'ath Party. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/21/world/middleeast/21syria.html Opposition fatalities again occurred in Daraa on April 8, amidst shooting between snipers and police.
Here's the Chrononology of the Syrian civil war at Wiki:
15 March "Day of Rage"
External videos
First explicit demonstration against the Syrian regime Damascus, Syria, 15 March 2011 on YouTube
Simultaneous demonstrations took place in major cities across Syria. Thousands of protesters gathered in al-Hasakah, Daraa, Deir ez-Zor, and Hama. There were some clashes with security, according to reports from dissident groups. In Damascus, a smaller group of 200 men grew spontaneously to about 1,500 men. Damascus has not seen such uprising since the 1980s. The official Facebook page called "Syrian Revolution 2011" showed pictures of supportive demonstrations in Cairo, Nicosia, Helsinki, Istanbul and Berlin. There were also unconfirmed news that Syrian revolution supporters of Libyan descent, stormed into the Syrian Embassy in Paris.
Another recently released political figure, Suhair Atassi, became an unofficial spokesperson for the "Syrian revolution", when she was interviewed by dozens of Arab and international media channels regarding the uprising. There were reports of 6 arrested in Damascus. Atassi paid tribute to "the Syrian people who took the initiative ahead of the opposition," recalling the popular uprisings that shook Tunisia and Egypt After the first day of the uprising there were reports about approximately 3000 arrests and a few "martyrs", but there are no official figures on the number of deaths.
Armed resistance started on April 8, 2011. There were no significant demonstrations in Syria until a protest in Damascus involving a couple hundred people on February 5 following the first protest that followed the internet Call for Days of Rage a few days earlier.
Daraa, a city near the Jordanian border in Southern Syria, was the site of the first armed clashes and massacres in early April.
The fighting with military defectors was a battle that developed within the context of armed uprising in Daraa. The events of April 8 that led to the arrival two weeks later of large number of government troops are key to understanding how the violence was sparked and why the use of force by the regime escalated. There were three key actions that sparked the crackdown: snipers, the burning of the Ba'ath Party Headquarters by a large, armed mob, and the killing of 19 policemen and security personnel. http://en.wikipedia.org/...
8 April "Friday of Resistance"
External videos
Unknown Gunmen Filmed at Syria Demo
(YouTube: Associated Press.)
8 April 2011. Retrieved 9 April 2011.
Protests in Duma near Damascus
On the third Friday called "Friday of Resistance", thousands of protesters took to streets in Daraa, Latakia, Tartus, Edlib, Baniyas, Qamishli, Homs and the Damascus suburb of Harasta, in the largest protest yet.
27 anti-government protesters were killed in Daraa and many other were wounded when security forces opened fire with rubber bullets and live rounds to disperse stone-throwing protesters. The clashes started when thousands of prayers staged rallies following the Friday prayers. In a telephone call one of the activists told the news agencies that demonstrators, starting from three mosques, have marched to the city's main court where they were confronted by security forces dressed in civilian clothing. A witness told Reuters he saw "snipers on roofs." It was also reported that another resident has seen "pools of blood and three bodies" in the Mahatta area of Daraa. The protesters have also smashed a stone statue of Basil al-Assad, the brother of the current President of the country, and set fire to a Ba'ath Party outpost. The state-run Syrian Television reported that 19 police officers and members of the security forces have been killed in Daraa.
You may view the original AP Raw Feed from Daraa on April 8 which shows the mob and the snipers, here:
http://www.youtube.com/... - URL:
Raw Video: Deadly Day of Protests in Syria - YouTube
► 1:13► 1:13
www.youtube.com Apr 8, 2011 - 1 min - Uploaded by AssociatedPress
State-run Syrian TV says 19 police officers and security forces have been killed in southern city of Daraa. (April 8)
Here are some of the more specific parallel events in Libya:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan_civil_war
On 18 February, police and army personnel later withdrew from Benghazi after being overwhelmed by protesters. Some army personnel also joined the protesters; they then seized the local radio station. In Bayda, unconfirmed reports indicated that the local police force and riot-control units had joined the protesters. On 19 February, witnesses in Libya reported helicopters firing into crowds of anti-government protesters. The army withdrew from the city of Bayda.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)Baseless 2016 predictions?
Healthy skepticism is now "negativity" towards one person?
What's next? If we oppose attacking Syria then we agree 100% with everything Assad says and does?
No thanks.
busterbrown
(8,515 posts)chemical weapons up close and personal..
Teabagger House already there... Holding on to Senate perhaps by a thread..
and a Christie, Bush or Rubio Presidency? Out of the question hardly..
Assad could care less wether we agree or disagree... Its about action..
RobertoRoberti
(30 posts)He is also always ready to trade social security for deficit reduction. He is also pushing through the TransPacificPartnership (TPP), which is designed to subordinate public policy-- on environment, health, education, labor, etc. etc-- to corporate rights.
In that sense he is a great strategist. He is managing to do all these things while Democrats are looking the other way.
busterbrown
(8,515 posts)Death Panels are being set up as we converse right now..
He also is personally responsible for the events in Benghazi.
He helped carried the guns across the border which ended up killing U.S. agents.
Also personally wire tapped the A.P.I reporter.
Care to add more to the list of bullshit that he has had to face for almost 5 years..
RobertoRoberti
(30 posts)I'm talking about real policies of the Obama administration. But he has not had to face it because Democrats aren't defending their own core values.
Check the facts. Arne Duncan's charter school scam is a fact. Offering up SS and Medicare for deficit reduction is a fact-- luckily the Republicans haven't bought it yet. The proposed TPP is a fact, even though the administration is trying to keep it all secret. I could also add the NSA spying, of which the secret got out in spite of all the efforts of "the most transparent administration" to keep it a secret.