Sanders & Minorities

[kcjohn1]

I'm getting tired of the meme that Hillary has the minority vote locked up. If you believe this, somehow one of two things are true 1) Hillary has unique campaign that connects with minorities and/or 2) Minorities are low info voters who will vote person with most name recognition.

1) Hillary has no unique message to minorities. At best she is just like other democrats. At worst, her 2008 dog whistle campaign comes back to hurt him with black voters. I would contend the more people look at consequence of establishment democrats policies on income equality, the more minorities will be turn off by candidates like Hillary.

2) If 1) is not true, then is it the case minorities are just low info voters? NO! However, this early in the primary season majority of voters are not paying attention. When polled they will go with person they recognized the most. So far campaigning has being limited to Iowa & NH, and that is primarily white/middle to upper class areas. Winning these two states will allow Sanders the platform to reach out to the rest of the country and voters.

The one area of concern I have as Sanders backer is the establishment minority politicians. I suspect majority of these politicians (just like other "main stream&quot are in the pocket of the Clintons. They will try to speak for all minorities, and the campaign has to figure out another way of reaching out these voters.

[lunamagica]

1. I belong to a minotity (Hispanic). I'm not a "low information voter". I support Hillary, and not

because "name recognition"

Because for me, immigration reform is my #1 issue. Her first major speech was about that, and she has minorities, including Hispanics (even a dreamer) in her staff.

Frankly, I find your assumptions really insulting.

PS, before someone jumps on me saying that "Bernie supports immigration reform" I know that. But it is not a priority to him. I see Hillary much more committed to the issue.

Get it now?

[kcjohn1]

4. I respect your support for Hillary

Maybe I should have clarified my OP. It was in reference to polls showing Hillary getting 95% of minority voters.

I'm pretty sure in that percentage a good chunk are voters like you. I would contend a larger chunk are not engaged in the process yet and is based on name recognition only.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

5. I will take a stab...

Let me preface by remarks by saying there is a difference between many, most, and all, and I am aware that if one or more POC posts in this thread and say they aren't voting for Secretary Of State Clinton my whole argument is in tatters...

The Clintons have been assiduously courting African Americans and Latinos since they were south Texas field organizers for George McGovern in 1972. Many Hispanic women look upon Secretary Of State Clinton with something approaching veneration. Famed African American author, Toni Morrison, called Bill Clinton the "first black president." Bonds like these aren't upset over night and that is why Secretary Clinton will do well among African American and Latino voters.

Even in the present campaign Secretary of State Clinton has made major addresses on criminal justice reform and immigration, two issues close to the hearts of African American and Latino voters, and plans a lot more.


Oh, you see I made my whole argument without denigrating Senator Sanders.

[Stellar]

132. I don't know about Latino's but...

African Americans have different issues from the Hispanic population. Every time I see Hillary, she has an African American woman with her as if everything is alright and it clearly is not.

Obama Camp's Memo on Clintons' Politicizing Race

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/12/obama-camps-memo-on-clint_n_81205.html

Obama Confused by Bill Clinton's Race Remark

http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=4702401

Racial tensions roil Democratic race

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0108/7845.html

Hillary Clinton Cannot Afford to Lose Black Voters

http://www.nationaljournal.com/2016-elections/hillary-clinton-cannot-afford-to-lose-black-voters-20150603

But then all of the Democrats have problems addressing AA issues, it seems. Whoever strikes the right not with them will win the Presidential election. So, as far as I'm concerned Hillary does not have this election wrapped up, no matter what they say. Nor any other opponent. There just may be a light turnout in the African-American community because no one want to address their most important issues. And we need more to turn out the way they did for President Obama to win the 2016 election.

WHY HAVE HILLARY CLINTON’S OPPONENTS GIVEN UP ON BLACK VOTERS?

http://bluenationreview.com/why-have-hillary-clintons-opponents-given-up-on-black-voters/

[DemocratSinceBirth]

133. Well...

As I suggested in my original post no group is a monolith * and just because members of a certain group oppose Secretary Of State Clinton doesn't invalidate my premise that Secretary Of State Clinton is very popular among members of that group,ergo:

But if you look at what the polls are telling us so far, Democrats seem quite happy to have Clinton as their presidential nominee. In the latest Pew poll, 77 percent of Democrats see her favorably, and she has strong approval across ages, incomes, and races. (African-Americans, the most important Democratic sub-group, rate her particularly highly, at 87 percent favorable.)

http://theweek.com/articles/556175/hillary-clinton-fewer-problems-democratic-base-than-might-think

*Fox News never has a problem of assembling panels of African Americans to trash the president. Their lead female African American anchor called him our "Rapper In Chief" because he deigned to use the n-word.

[Stellar]

140. Yes, she is well known among that populous...

Bernie will have his chance to make himself known to them also. If you don't know the other people in the race it doesn't mean they love her.

( But if you look at what the polls are telling us so far, Democrats seem quite happy to have Clinton as their presidential nominee. In the latest Pew poll, 77 percent of Democrats see her favorably, and she has strong approval across ages, incomes, and races. African-Americans, the most important Democratic sub-group, rate her particularly highly, at 87 percent favorable.)

We all know how wrong polls can be sometimes.

Over the final weeks of the 2012 campaign, Gallup's daily tracking poll showed President Barack Obama consistently trailing Romney, including a final survey that gave Romney a 1-point edge. Instead, Obama won by nearly 4 percentage points. While Gallup was far from the only polling firm to call the election wrong, its visibility and reputation, as well as the size of its error, made it one of the most notable.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/04/gallup-poll-2012_n_3384882.html

I'm waiting to see just who will take up the cause for black communities before I back either candidate.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

142. Everybody has to follow their own moral and political compass.

William F. Buckley used to say that he voted for the most conservative candidate in the Republican primary who he believed could prevail in the general election.

I vote for the most liberal candidate in the Democratic primary who I believe will prevail in the general election.

Some will say that's voting for the winner but it's more than that. If our candidates loses we get nothing.

[Stellar]

145. Exactly!

You can't get too liberal for me. If Buckley was around today he probably would think they've gone bat-shit conservative crazy in his party. But Bernie, if he can throw in a little more muscle out there behind the AA cause...he would be my guy for sure.

Bernie Sanders Is A Socialist And That's Not As Crazy As It Sounds

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/30/bernie-sanders-socialist_n_7182752.html

[DemocratSinceBirth]

147. If you go the National Review, the magazine he founded...

If you go the National Review, the magazine he founded, they were in the bag for Romney in 012 and he was the "mainstream" Republican. They seem to be in the bag for Bush lll this time... And their readers deride them in the comments section for supporting RINOS.

[appalachiablue]

150. Many African Americans are much more aware of what has happened in this country in the

last 30 years because of the 2008 Financial Crash - the loss of homes, savings and jobs, income inequality, decline of the middle class, high youth unemployment, the diminishing social safety net, part time jobs without benefits or security, extreme cost for college and healthcare that is draining households, and the enormous growth of private, for profit prisons that incarcerate and exploit huge numbers of black and brown people as explained in Michelle Alexander's revealing new book, "The New Jim Crow" (2010).

The elevating levels of racism and police brutality in the US against blacks, minorities, the poor, the mentally ill and some LGBT people esp. youth also impacts and disturbs many people of all backgrounds.

As for my own diverse family's background and transition to Bernie, I explain a lot of this in #135. The country post 2008 has changed much, is very different for most and the rapid rise of social media and independent, alternative news online is educating people like never before.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

153. Buckley was an abhorrent racist, too!

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

152. No ma'am/sir!! Black voters left the Clintons in DROVES due to their racism. We didn't just IMAGINE

shit! These people were disgusting!

Why are you dismissing what they did? The behavior of their surrogates?

We would never tolerate this nonsense from Republicans!

[Stellar]

165. and it took a lot for them to leave...

Black people hung around with the Clintons as long as they could until the Clintons start playing the 'race card' on their own base. Sounds strange but that's the way I felt about the Clintons.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

151. Thanks for this because I can't! Will people please stop thinking black people are STUPID!

We are not dumb people!

Thank you so much for this.

It shows Hillary and Bill Clinton's race politics.

----

Dog whistle politics referring to "hard working white people"?

Evidence: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/08/clinton-obama-not-winning_n_100763.html

and here: http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0508/Garin_Clinton_won_the_white_vote.html

Bill Clinton's racist statements about Jesse Jackson?

Evidence: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0108/7845.html

and here the audio/video:

Geraldine Ferarro claim that Obama's race was the reason why people supported him, even though Hillary enjoyed overwhelming support from black voters initially?

Evidence: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/13/us/politics/13ferraro.html?_r=0

and here on Faux News, nevertheless: Geraldine Ferarro's comments:

Hillary alludes to the assassination of Bobby Kennedy during a time when Obama was receiving an unprecedented number of death threats?

Evidence: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/24/us/politics/24clinton.html

And this statement is precisely what turned the Kennedy family against Hillary Clinton for the nomination. Despicable!!!

They all went on Faux News to ridicule and play racial dog whistle politics, knowing that working class white Democrats weren't supporting Obama. For example, Ed Rendell praising Faux News for it's unbiased coverage: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/31/clinton-surrogate-ed-rend_n_94280.html

I have no reason to lie!

The Clintons were disgusting, as were their surrogates and many of their fans.

I WILL NEVER SHUT MY MOUTH ON THIS ISSUE! I will never keep quiet until people wake up and own it!

[Stellar]

164. WOW...somebody that gets it....

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

I have been keeping up with all the racist remarks of the Clintons and their surrogates since 2008. I would think there were lots of black people that kept up with all the news on the first black candidate and the B.S. back then.

The Clintons were disgusting, as were their surrogates and many of their fans.

Well said my friend. And thanks for the links.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

174. We need more people to speak out. People of color are being shut down when we do.

[artislife]

181. This is the post that got me to finally sign up here!

I am going to copy and paste this and spread all around my other internet haunts.

I remember jumping out of my skin as things progressed. I liked Bill, wanted Barack to win but not super anti Hilary....but that run of the primary...that was it. I finally lost my rose colored glasses about Bill and his 8 years and she was dead to me.

I didn't think I would be able to vote for a Dem in the general election in 2016, thought it would be what ever progressive got on the ticket, but I am going to work hard for Bernie to win the primary.

And thank you. The truth needs to be revealed again and again.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

200. You're quite welcome. And greetings. Welcome. Don't allow anyone here to bully you into shutting up.

Speak the truth loudly and boldly.

Some DUers are hell bent on running off anyone who dare speak truth to power.

[artislife]

205. I already had my account shut down...by mistake..interestingly enough. nt

[Ken Burch]

167. They lost any right to claim to be on the side of minorities when they formed the DLC, though.

The whole point of the DLC was to make sure that none of the values of the McGovern campaign, the black freedom movement of the Sixties, and Jesse Jackson's Rainbow Coalition survived in the Democratic Party. The whole point of being a "moderate" is to ditch anybody who isn't a bitter, activist-and-protest-hating Southern white man. Centrism is a white thing.

HRC needs to apologize for ever being involved in building the DLC. There was no excuse for that group to ever exist, and only white men benefited from what it did to this party.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

168. Should Secretary Of State Kerry and Vice President Biden apologize for joining the DLC

Should Secretary Of State Kerry;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Leadership_Council


and Vice President Biden:



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/05/AR2010110503586.


apologize for joining the DLC and should Barack Obama apologize for making them one and two heartbeats away from the presidency?

[Ken Burch]

169. Yes. Because if you join the DLC, you can't care about fighting bigotry.

If you back corporate control of life, you aren't seriously interested in helping poc or ending bigotry. Only the left of the party, only the activist types truly care about those issues. Nobody in the DLC EVER did and that group's candidates never got any votes any other Dem wouldn't have pulled as well.

Why would you even bother defending the DLC? We never needed to move 70% further right in 1992 to win. We never needed a group that fought to make the Democratic Party viciously anti-Sixties and anti-grassroots to get elected. There was no huge public demand for Democrats to become a "me too, but I'll be slightly less nasty about it" party.

And while I admire a lot that Obama's done...until the last six months or so, when faced with the choice of doing something progressive(or at least speaking for something progressive) or doing something "centrist&quot i.e., conservative, since centrism and conservatism are the same thing for all practical purposes). He never took his sensible shoes to Wisconsin, and nobody who backed Walker's assault on workers ever rewarded him for staying away by giving him their votes(Obama-Biden took nothing but pro-labor voters in Wisconsin in '12).

[DemocratSinceBirth]

170. I am not defending the DLC.

I am an unhyphenated Democrat.

[Ken Burch]

175. Ok, that's good that you aren't defending it. n/t.

[kath]

198. +1000

[appalachiablue]

187. Hi there, on the subject of Sanders denigration maybe you saw this major assault on him right after

his successful campaign kickoff in Vermont. "NOT GOOD ENOUGH, BERNIE", OP May 27, 2015. An offensive, bizarre and shameful concoction based on a Washington blogger, immasmartpants who is noted in the body of the OP. The writer exploited Ferguson events to associate Sen. Sanders somehow with institutional racism and slavery in the US, and to claim he was indifferent to the issues of racism.
Image props used for a connection (?) to Sanders included an 1860s ceiling painting in the US Capitol building, the 'Apotheosis of George Washington', founding father and slave master, and a modern photograph of 2 Chicago policemen with a young black man posed as "deer kill". An offensive, vile fabrication and assault on a Senator who had just recently become a new democratic candidate for president in 2016.

Bernie Sanders, the son of an immigrant, with a long history of fighting for workers, the vulnerable, seniors, vets, women, Civil Rights, LGBT advocacy, the environment and more. A legislator who is recognized by the NAACP, attended the Selma event this year, drew up a bill in 2014 to support jobs for black youth with Rep. John Conyers of IL, an associate of CA Rep. Barbara Lee, and a supporter of Hispanic minorities like Garcia in Chicago who ran against Rahm Emmanuel in the mayoral race.
I've never seen anything this devious, deranged or false in my life. Even without Hispanic, black, white, Jewish and Asian family and friends this disgusting publication would be highly insulting.

"Just Not Good Enough, Bernie", May 27, 2015

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026737025

[DemocratSinceBirth]

188. I like the poster that made that post. I don't like the post./nt

[lunamagica]

6. Remember back in '08? Bernie supporters love to bring that up.

Saying that Obama had little name recognitions and he beat her.

Well, Hispanics supported Hillary until the end. Obama's magic and his "Hope and Change" message didn't win him the Latino vote in the primaries. Sure, he got the support for the GE, but the primaries? It was Hillary all the way.

I don't see that changing now.

Also remember that Hillary came *thisclose* to winning. It was the overwhelming support of black voters that did her in.

But now? Even if Bernie managed to attract half of black voters (which would be remarkable) he'd still lose. Because if the HUGE Obama magic, his super-inspiring message and his AMAZING charisma didn't sway the Latino voters, I don't see Sander getting them them.That, plus even if she only gets half of the black voters (I expect most will vote for her) will take her to victory.

That's what I believe, anyway

[okasha]

11. I agree with your post,

and I see a further hurdle for Sanders. Racial minorities in the US know from painful experience that economic justice does not lead to social justice. Many Hispanics in the Southwest also know that Sanders is weak on environmental justice. He supported the Sierra Blanca waste dump,, which involves transporting NY sewage to an impoverished town along the Rio Grande.

[wyldwolf]

17. Regardless of everything else being debated, Sanders cannot win without the minority vote.

There is no realistic path to the nomination.

[okasha]

20. None. Nor is there any way for him

to build sufficient minority support in the next seven months.

I also think the minority.vote gives us a chance to deliver Texas for Hillary in the general. Deny Texas to the R's, and it's all over.

[freshwest]

28. Praying for this! The GOP said there'd NEVER be another GOP president if TX goes blue. n/t

[DemocratSinceBirth]

29. Even if we can make them work for TX it's a win because that means there's less time for them ...

Even if we can make them work for TX it's a win because that means there's less time for them to campaign in swing states.

[freshwest]

36. But I think we need Castro on the ticket to balance it. An all northeast ticket won't fly well.

It's sad that our southern Dems have not gotten the wins they should have. Like Carter or Davis.

[okasha]

49. I agree with this, also.

Castro is the running mate of choice.

[lunamagica]

74. Yes, I think Castro would be an big asset to the ticket!

[freshwest]

129. How popular is outside of San Antonio? I live out of state. Family in the Big H. Making a name for

himself in HUD, carrying out Obama's mandates on fair housing, though. Love the twins and their family story. So spot on with many people.

Terrific at the 2012 DNC. He's got a special quality of joy and the heart and knows how to get things done.

[Gothmog]

128. I would love to see Julian Castro as the VP nominee

[freshwest]

130. How well known is he in your part of Texas? n/t

[Gothmog]

171. His brother spoke at a fundraise for my county party and we know his brother

The Texas Democratic Party printed these bumperstickers over a year ago (I have a couple saved)

[okasha]

45. I'll be volunteering when the time comes.

Meanwhile, I think I'll start a mini campaign among fellow artists to get Phthalo Blue renamed Hillary Blue.

[Gothmog]

177. We are working hard in Texas to turn it blue

If the race is close in Texas, the GOP will have to divert resources to Texas which would ensure a Democratic victory in 2016

[freshwest]

31. And waste in the Rio Grande region led to terribly deformed stillborn babies.

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1992-01-19/news/1992019003_1_matamoros-brownsville-texas-born

I remember coverage of this horror then. This is the suffering of women of color and the poor, largely forgotten. Naturally it is not the only example.

[Sunlei]

127. river water hardly even makes it to mexico these days and what does isn't very clean.

[Gothmog]

173. I grew up near McAllen

I know this area well. The Castro brothers went to a school that was not too far from my school district

[freshwest]

176. Thanks for this and the other post about the Castros. Sounds good they are known.

As to this in that area of Texas, I learned about it in Big H. Texas has had a lot of pollution, a lot in areas with POC, and a lot of land to pollute and escape the same, but no longer. Progress was made pre-Bush. but things seem less regulated and have spun out of control... again.

[Gothmog]

180. I work in Houston and live in Fort Bend

I grew up in the Rio Grande Valley but now work in Houston. I work with the Harris County Democratic Party on issues.

[freshwest]

189. Worked with them back in the stone ages when I was teenager phone banking. Is that effective now?

Because I won't answer the phone unless it's identified as too many GOPers call the lists of registered Democrats. Which are public record. They try to decieve people.

The shenanigans have been *unbelievable* since 2000. I used to pick it up and if it was a political poll, I asked 'Just who are you and who are you calling for and what do you want?' in a hostile tone.

They'd be put off but if they said they were with the Democratic Party, I said,'Good!' They'd ask who I was going to vote for and I'd name the Democrat. We have a problem with out of state dark money lying their ass off about our candidates and biased polling.

Lot of deceptive GOP mail from and 'unknowns.' it's creepy.

[Gothmog]

190. Phone banking is still effective

Now they use an automatic dialing program to hit targeted voters. It is an interesting system.

One of the stranger things that I saw this cycle was got candidates sending vote by mail applications to hardcore Democratic voters during the primary season. We got the word out about this but if a voter sent in a vote by mail application for the GOP primary, they could not vote in the Democratic primary.

[freshwest]

34. I found all of it to be true. TX Hispanic family are eager for HRC. Not holding their nose to vote!

The arrogance I see here at times is deeply offensive. People should remember others don't forget it. I'd hate to see BS's message be obliterated by this.

[lunamagica]

61. OH, man it would be so so SO wonderful to win Texas! It would be a fatal stab to the GOP

And yes, the arrogance is offensive.

Why do they think PoC are so unaware? Why do they believe only white liberalss know what's going on? How can they be so unaware how insulting this is?

[okasha]

62. Could be because Sanders' supporters

are mainly upper-class whites. Lots of paternalistic males in there, too.

[Comrade Grumpy]

100. Got anything to support that claim? Any polling data? Anything?

[okasha]

111. Check out the polls referenced in this thread

and any others with the demographics broken down.

When Hillary's support comprises an overwhelming majority of people of color, majorities among women and LGBT's, what's left for Bernie except affluent white males?

You might also check out all the man'splainin, white'splainin, and straight'splainin by Bernie adherents, particularly the ones who have violated the safe haven groups.

[appalachiablue]

141. You are making unfounded claims and generalizations that are not true and offensive.

All paternalistic males, upper class whites and 'straights'- take a look at the people at his events and even during the 4th weekend. Yeah they're definitely real alpha, chauvinistic, wealthy 1% males- all that Bernie stands for! Unbelievable.

[okasha]

143. You're assuming that everyone

who attends his rallies is a supporter. I seriously doubt that's true.

[appalachiablue]

146. So people who make the effort to get to his events & hear what he has to say are opponents, or

maybe just killing time? Oh my-

[okasha]

157. Or comparison shopping for a candidate.

Presumably undecided voters will want to check out the possibilities, compare and contrast policies, electability, leadership skills. And yes, some will be there just because he's the shiny new thing.

And yes, the same applies to other candidates, except for those who are no longer novelties.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

154. Hispanics tended to have a special affinity for the Clintons, not because they hated Obama. Well...

...some of them were probably not happy with his race, either. But by and large, they love the Clintons because of their name recognition and for what the Clintons did for them via CAFTA and free trade, immigration, etc.

Don't discount the intelligence of the black voter. Obama's sweet words could not siphon black voters from the Clintons. It was not until he proved himself and started winning that our minds changed. Hillary/Bill's racism fast-tracked that support.

If black Americans were simply wow'd by fancy talk, colorful speech, and name recognition, Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson would have been president. Kwese Mfume, not Ben Cardin would have represented Maryland as my U.S. Senator.

So, please! I wish people would stop suggesting that it's ONLY name recognition or some other insignificant factor that has nothing to do with intelligence or strategic action.

To suggest such is in itself a prejudice.

Black voters are far more strategic.

Bernie has to prove himself just as the Clintons have had to.

Can he win? Can he beat her. Will he stand up for causes that black people--as a whole--champion? Or, like the Clintons and most other Democrats, will he take our support for granted?

[wyldwolf]

16. It's the 'while liberal knows best' phenomena.

[1StrongBlackMan]

25. Yes it is ...

and it is getting tiring.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

27. I am tempted to post the exchange where Django first meets Stephen

lol

[1StrongBlackMan]

35. But that would be wrong because ...

that would be a discussion between two Black men ... Wait ...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

38. I am going to watch it now for a chuckle.

"Where is my beautiful sister?"

[freshwest]

32. And turning a lot of people off... n/t

[1StrongBlackMan]

37. It's clearly comforting to white liberals ...

the more they tell themselves this ... the more they tell themselves this.

[freshwest]

40. LOL! Nailed! It fires up the... Um. n/t

[Number23]

69. "Frankly, I find your assumptions really insulting."

It won't make a bit of difference to these folks who are determined to minimize an important issue all while doing a "victory lap" that a couple of Twitter feeds created for Sanders' minority supporters have barely cracked the triple digits in terms of followers. There were almost as many recs for that OP as there were followers -- which shows both how few DUers there are left as well as how premature that little victory lap was.

You are more than welcome in the AA forum here. http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1187 Another Hispanic poster, azmom, said that the Latin forum is pretty quiet so we'd love to have you in there.

[lunamagica]

73. Thank you! I lurk there often. I find the discussions relly interesting, and posted once

in support of 1SBM. I'm not a big poster, but I'd love to participate in your group!

[arely staircase]

90. this nt

[TM99]

102. So you are A-OK

with Clinton having supported deporting the undocumented children awhile back? Sanders was for allowing them to stay and be treated with the respect they deserve.

Obviously Clinton is given a pass. Why? What is the reason especially when Sanders has a proven track record on supporting immigration reforms?

Clinton is only 'committed' to the issue right now because she is running for office, and yes, you are falling for it.

[lunamagica]

107. Hillary has ALWAYS been commited to the Latino population. She has given much more than lip-service

and votes in congress while sitting in an air conditioned room.

The problem she had with the migrant children is that it would encourage parents and relatives sending more over here. Do you have any idea of how harrowing and dangerous that journey is? We will never know how many children died trying to come here that way.

Did you know that in her youth Hillary personally baby-sat for migrant worker's children? That as a young woman she registered Latino votes in South Texas?

Here's an excerpt from an article about Hillary and Hispanics:
------------------------

Even for a candidate who has been on the national stage for decades, Clinton’s history with Latino voters goes back a surprisingly long way.

In 1972, when a young Hillary and Bill Clinton were working the ill-fated George McGovern campaign, she worked closely with well-respected union leader, Franklin Garcia, who took her under his wing as she helped register Latino voters in south Texas and along the Rio Grande Valley.

“Hispanics in South Texas were,” she wrote in her 2003 memoir Living History, “understandably, wary of a blond girl from Chicago who didn’t speak a word of Spanish.” But Garcia “took me places I could never have gone alone and vouched for me to Mexican Americans who worried I might be from the immigration service or some other government agency.” Garcia drove her and Bill across the border to Matamoros, a dive that had only a “decent mariachi band,” she wrote, but where she indulged in barbecued cabrito, or goat.

Garry Mauro, one of her first contacts in Texas, told the San Antonio Express in 2008 that back then she had a “cultural affinity with Hispanics,” asking questions and listening to their concerns, a dynamic that would be on display again, more than three decades later in Nevada, as she tried to woo an influential Latino activist.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/adriancarrasquillo/hillary-clinton-has-deep-history-with-latinos-and-theres-not#.kpQWQKMJ7

Read it. It may help you to see the long, deep history of Latinos and Hillary. That way, you wont make such absurd assumptions like"she's 'commited' right now", and you will see I have not "fallen" for anything.

[TM99]

108. You excuse her stance on the deportation of children.

I and others do not.

Clinton and Gore are also remembeedr by two different sides on the Elian Gonzalez situation.

Acceptance and dislike for the Clintons are both present in the Latino communities.

Like other minority discussions here, one small minority of Clinton supporters attempts to state definitively that all minorities LOVE the Clintons and will never vote for anyone else including Sanders.

That is simply not true, and it is and will grow more and more apparent as the primary heats up.

[lunamagica]

112. I see tha you ignored everything in my reply, including the article I linked

You keep telling yourself that Sen. Sanders can peel away minority support from Hillary. I'm sure he will get some of them, but polls, statistics and history say otherwise. Hillary's minority support (except for Blacks) almost got her the nomination. Now, with Obama out of the picture, we can include the majority of Black voters supporting her. Everything points to minorities carrying Hillary to victory.

Saying that Sanders will accomplish what not even Obama could with Latino voters is pure fantasy and speculation from the Bernie camp.

[TM99]

114. What I have ignored is your assumptions

that you believe are iron clad.

The irony is that everyone still seems to forget that minorities are minorities. The largest single voting block is still white males. If Sanders gets more white males, and enough white females and minorities, then yes, he will win the primary.

Eventually we minorities have to stop pretending that 'rock stars' who are corporatists that will say one thing in the campaign season with slick ads and hollow promises and govern exactly opposite of what was promised once elected are NOT the better choices for us.

I, and others, recognize that Sanders is the better choice. The fantasy is believing that the Neo-Liberal Clinton is.

[napi21]

2. I DON'T believe minorities are low info voters at all, BUT

Bernie was not one of the boisterous media grabbing Senators, therefore many people are not familiar with who Bernie is, nor what his policy stands are. That problem is getting fixed, but it's going to take more time for him to gain exposure.

Everyone knows Hillary because she's been in the spotlight for many years.

As you said, it's early in the primary process.

[ruffburr]

3. my July fourth bbq -

I had my friend Juan over he is from Guatemala, he asked about who I thought was best of course I showed him some Bernie info and told him to check out Bernie Sanders .com he is well known in his community and I do believe he will tell his folks ,The point being talk to everyone you know or meet if the opportunity arises.

[lunamagica]

26. I don't think it is right to keep saying that Latinos don't know who Sen. Sanders is

recently Jorge Ramos dedicated a whole segment of his Sunday morning talk show to him. He interviewed him. This show is seen by millions of Latinos. So, Sen' Sanders is not an unknown anymore among the Latino population.

[1StrongBlackMan]

30. Funny, I was at the barber shop on Friday and had 40+ people (I lost count at 40) ...

over for our 4th of July BBQ. The vast majority of people were Black or Latino.

In both situations, Bernie came up ... and in both occasions, the majority of people knew who Bernie is and knew his policy positions ... but in both occasion, the majority expressed major doubts about his candidacy.

And their doubts weren't about his sincerity or any particular love for HRC.

[JaneyVee]

7. Sanders will not get the minority vote.

Hillary most certainly has a unique message to minorities on everything from immigration reform to criminal justice reform. And on top of that, she goes directly to these people to get her message out.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

9. He might not get all of it but

from what I have seen around here community organizers and the communities seem to be mostly for Bernie.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

10. May I ask what state you are living in?

I live in the most populous state in the Union with a plurality Latino population and am just not seeing it...

[1StrongBlackMan]

39. Wyoming ...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

41. You're bad./nt

[JaneyVee]

12. Where?

[lunamagica]

13. That's not what I see around me. Like I said in another post, Latinos were really loyal

to Hillary in '08, and they still are. I believe if anything, the loyalty now is even stronger, being that now you can add to the equation the fact that that there's a feeling of "this time, we will win".

I'm seeing this even among young Cubans, who prefer Hillary over Cruz and Rubio.

I mean, you think we don't notice that her first speech was on immigration reform? That she has Latinos on her staff, which includes a Dreamer? This means she's hearing our concerns directly from them, and it shows in the way she's addressing our problems. Yes, we notice, we're listening, and we are aware, even if many (I'm not saying you personally, I don't know), many Bernie supporters think we don't

[wyldwolf]

18. if GA ever turns blue, it will be because of Hispanic voters.

Hispanic voters in GA are very pro-Clinton.

[wyldwolf]

8. Good post. Except for one thing.

Sanders has a MAJOR minority problem.

[okasha]

14. The Sanders campaign

has a potentially lethal minority problem.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

57. Really? What is it?

It must have cropped up in thew last day or so, because I haven't seen any major impediment in the time since he announced.

[okasha]

60. He can't win without them,

primary or general. That problem existed even before he announced, which may be why you missed it..

He's nor going to get them. See posts following.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

64. I think he will get them.

I don't think they're that in love with Clinton. She just had the name recognition, and had campaigned before, so they already knew something about her. Bernie has a many decades long, solid track record of pro-minority work, and as he gets his message out there more, a lot of folks who simply went with Hillary as 'the devil you know' will switch over.

[okasha]

67. You go right on telling yourself that.

It won't have the slightest effect on the real world.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

68. I'll just wait and see.

I don't worry about what I 'tell myself'.

[lunamagica]

70. Again with the "name recognition" meme. When will they get how offensive it is?

[okasha]

75. Probably never.

They'll still be repeating it when Hillary pulverizes Jeb in the general.

[-Bernie-]

103. What if I told you Erich is right?

I'm a minority, and there's talk of Bernie here, almost on a daily basis - and when someone tries to bring up Clinton - they suddenly go quiet. Clinton isn't as popular one might think after Bernie's recent visit.

[okasha]

106. I'd say you arrived on DU three days ago

and have 7 posts to your name.

I'd also say that I live in a minority-majority community, that I'm Native and lesbian, and that here in Texas we know bullshit when we see it.

[sheshe2]

113. okasha~

On Mon Jul 6, 2015, 01:11 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

I'd say you arrived on DU three days ago
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=427059

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Pointing out a member's time here and post count is against the rules.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Jul 6, 2015, 01:37 AM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: agree with alert
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Get over yourself. It is not against the rules. Lately everything seems to warrant a hide on DU. Especially if you are a Hillary supporter. Stop the damn alert stalking! Just STOP IT! This place has gone to hell. Grow up or go away. Skinner is watching. Will he do something about it? I don't know, yet he is watching. Leave it!
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Just reread the TOS and didn't see any rule like that. Okashs could try using some better manners, though. Just because a person is nnew to DU has an opinion that differs from yours is no reason to denigrate or be less than polite.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

[okasha]

158. Thanks for posting that, sheshe.

Somebody haz a sad today.

[Gothmog]

178. Yep

Texas is going to be supporting Hillary

[Cha]

125. Mahalo for telling it, Texas Style, okasha!

[okasha]

159. My pleasure, cha.

[hrmjustin]

138. .

[okasha]

160. Backatcha, amigo.

[zappaman]

118. Welcome to DU!

Again...

[okasha]

163. Precisely.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

134. I am deeply suspicious of anecdotal information

My buddy from grad school went on to law school and became a prominent lawyer in South Florida. One day I was bored, searched the internet, found his number, and called him...We hadn't spoke in twenty five years or so...I started to regale him with events from our grad school days right down to the student teacher we knew who had an Adam Ant poster in her office. He told me that lawyers judge the veracity of a story by how much detail a person puts into it or colloquially it's hard to bullshit a lawyer and he was amazed at the detail of how I could recall events from so long ago.

That's why when I tell a story I provide lots of detail.

IRL, i have met one Sanders supporter . She is a nice eighty five year old Jewish woman who lives in West Hills with her autistic son. She was telling me how she was part of the only Jewish family growing up in a Montana town full of smelters and the anti-semitism she encountered. I told I was Jewish on my mom's side and that my relations with Christians were mostly but not exclusively cordial.
I also encouraged her to go to Bernie's website and got involved in his campaign as she is very enthusiastic about him.

[MADem]

104. He doesn't prioritize minority issues, and he has not yet spoken to minorities.

His crowd shots are like "Where's Waldo" when trying to find anyone who has even a paper bag hue. I don't say that to disparage him, but he has not yet gone to a venue where the population is anything but caucasian.

Who knows if he'd get a good reception, or not? Maybe a more diverse crowd would turn out in droves? The concept simply has not been tested to this point in time.

Thus far, he has spoken in (very white) VT, NH and IA, and he's on his way to Very White Maine.

Who knows--in time he may go to a state with a more inclusive population and get a more colorful crowd. I just haven't seen it happen yet, but there's still plenty of time.

I don't have any friends who are supporting him, but most of my associates have been in the Clinton corner for awhile. I think he says things that a lot of people agree with in principle, but I haven't seen him create a path to get to these utopian ideals he champions. One still has to get through a (presently GOP controlled) difficult Congress, and I haven't seen the path lit on that score at all.

[winter is coming]

15. HRC badly needs Sanders to have a minority problem. Therefore, he has one.

That's the long and the short of it. Looking at his positions and his history with the civil rights movement, there's no obvious reason he should have a "problem". Until he's actually campaigned heavily and lost heavily in an area with a sizeable minority population, claiming that he has a minority problem is wishful thinking.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

19. Barack Obama assiduously courted Latino voters and lost them more than 2-1 in the 08 primaries

[dsc]

54. pretty amazing numbers

She barely lost Hispanics in Illinois. Wonder what the difference is between Hispanics on CT and VA and the rest.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

59. Probably a generational thing...

My guess is that Barack Obama did better with those who are here longer and had higher incomes.

[JI7]

110. it wasn't just hispanic votes in Virginia, Obama did better overall

and cut into many of the groups which supported Clinton in large numbers in other states. i think the only group hillary won in virginia was white women .

but it also shows how important outreach is . while clinton may have won hispanics overall and in very large numbers. the Obama campaign still made a large effort to get hispanic votes and it paid off in individual states. and even more so when it came to the GE and making it easier for them to back obama after supporting clinton.

[wyldwolf]

21. Nah, statistics is the "long and the short of it."

Sanders appears to have been benefited from the much-discussed divide between traditional Democrats like Clinton and those who are more liberal on economic issues like Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren.

But another divide has emerged that favors Clinton: white versus non-white Democrats. In a new Washington Post/ABC News survey, 56 percent of white Democrats backed Clinton, while 14 percent supported Sanders. Among self-described liberals, Sanders had 17 percent support, compared to 63 percent for Clinton. (Vice President Biden, who has given no indication he will run, polled in double-digits among both groups.)

But among non-white Democrats (the survey did not break them down by ethnicity), Clinton had 72 percent support, compared to 5 percent for the Vermont senator.

This finding mirrors that of other surveys. As Dante Chinni wrote last week, Wall Street Journal/NBC News polling shows that 68 percent of non-white Democrats say Clinton does not need a primary challenger, while the majority of white Democrats (53 percent) want her to face other candidates.

Among white Democrats, 56 percent say Clinton will bring "real change," compared to a whopping 81 percent of non-white Democrats, according to the WSJ/NBC survey. A CNN poll showed Sanders with 14 percent of the white vote, compared to 5 percent among non-white Democrats.

A Pew poll in March, before Clinton formally started her campaign, showed that 74 percent of black Democrats said there was a "good chance" they would back the former first lady. Only 54 percent of white Democrats agreed with that statement, with many of them (34 percent) opting with the less enthusiastic "some chance."

http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/bernie-sanders-surging-among-white-democrats-others-love-hillary-n369251

I'm betting 'progressives' and going to claim Hillary cheated when she wins, instead of admitting Sanders had little appeal beyond white liberals.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

22. I believe she can easily top 80% among African Americans and Latinos.

There is no Barack Obama and his immense charisma and generational pull and 80% among Latinos is not unfathomable since she captured 68% of that vote in 2008.

[okasha]

24. I see Sanders people missing a key point here.

Minority voters are not neutral. Most are already committed to a candidate they believe will represent their interests.

To gain their votes, Sanders would first have to destroy their loyalty to Hillary, then persuade them that somehow a virtually-unknown white dude from Vermont-for-God's-sake is more aware of their issues that she is.

Not. Going. To. Happen.

[AgingAmerican]

115. Sanders won't have to destroy anything

Hillary will do that all by herself, like she did last time.

[1StrongBlackMan]

46. So you think Bernie's "minority problem" is manufactured? ...

I would suggest that continuing Bernie's "minority problem" is largely a result of that exact sentiment.

[winter is coming]

58. No, I think that we don't yet have enough data to conclude there *is* a problem

and that one has been prematurely announced in hopes of creating a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Hillary is a former First Lady and Secretary of State, in addition to being a former senator. There are very few people in the US who don't know who she is. Sanders is a senator from a small state who's had far less exposure. He's a relative unknown to people who aren't following the race closely, and this far ahead of the primaries, a lot of people aren't following the race.

It may well be that Hillary will retain all of the minority support that polls indicate she has, but it might also be that some of her support, as in Iowa and New Hampshire, is due to familiarity, and her numbers will drop as other candidates become better known to the electorate. That's true for everyone, not just minorities, but both Iowa and NH are fairly white.

[1StrongBlackMan]

79. Okay ... despite what "minorities" are saying ...

we don't have enough data to conclude that "minorities" are saying what we/they are saying.

[winter is coming]

81. No; we don't have enough data to know whether or not minorities (or anyone else)

will change candidates as time goes by. Sanders was nowhere two months ago, and after some campaigning, is beginning to look competitive in places where he's been putting in the hours. The same might be true of other places. Only time will tell.

[1StrongBlackMan]

82. Don't the numbers suggest that ...

Bernie REMAINS no where with "minorities"?

And that is largely because he is not (is not perceived to be) campaigning to "minorities"?

[winter is coming]

83. For now, Bernie is nowhere with minorities, but he hasn't been campaigning

in areas with large minority populations. Maybe his numbers will improve. Maybe they won't.

[1StrongBlackMan]

86. True ... And that is the point many have been attempting to make ...

And the longer he stays his current course, the more it reinforces "minority" concerns.

But I guess it's a political calculation ... stay in places where your message resonates (overwhelmingly white, liberal areas) build momentum and buzz ... and leave the "minority support" question an open question.

Or, risk campaigning in areas with higher minority representation, and possibly answer the question.

Political prudence would suggest the former course over the latter.

[winter is coming]

88. He's not "staying in places where his message resonates".

He's campaigning where the first primaries are. It's ludicrous to pretend that someone who had the courage to march with MLK is afraid to tackle other states or is somehow unconcerned with minorities.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

89. Charlton Heston marched with Dr. King too...

Charlton Heston marched with Dr. King too... And Joe Lieberman went down south for Freedom Summer...

I am not suggesting that Bernie Sanders is anything like those two men but to infer from the fact that he marched with Dr. King fifty years ago that he has some cache of support with African Americans in 2015 is illogical.

[1StrongBlackMan]

92. When do you get the "unconcerned with minorities" line? ...

And that is another problem ... Bernie supporters are arguing stuff that has never been questioned.

[winter is coming]

97. You imply it every time you characterize Bernie's policies as financial issues

that are of concern to white, liberal voters. As if the things he's talking about don't affect minority voters even more.

Others imply it every time they refer to Bernie's message as being solely financial, as if he's never said anything about civil rights or how badly police treat minorities. Yes, Bernie talks about income inequality. A lot. It's an important issue, and the area where he most differs from other candidates.

[1StrongBlackMan]

98. Okay ... try listening harder to what is being said ...

rather than, what you understand me to be implying.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

99. Perhaps it's a question of emphasis.

eom

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

201. There's a pattern on DU of dismissing what "minorities" themselves are saying. Only white folk

know and understand what's good for us.

[Cha]

66. that's what it sounded like. Not sure Sen Sanders would agree.

[Thinkingabout]

139. Bernie has to sell himself, blaming other candidates does not sell Bernie.

It's not my fault it is------- doesn't get the job done.

[SunSeeker]

33. He's not going to win minority votes by spouting dog whistles like he did today.

When speaking to Jake Tapper today, in trying to defend his 2005 vote in favor of giving gun manufacturers certain tort immunities available to no other product manufacturer, he appeared to claim Vermont gun owners were more responsible gun owners than those in "Chicago" (African Americans?) and "Los Angeles" (Latinos?). As he states at 0:42-1:00 in this video:

"...the people of my state understand, I think pretty clearly, that guns in Vermont are not the same thing as guns in Chicago or guns in Los Angeles. In our state, guns are used for hunting. In Chicago, they're used for kids in gangs killing other kids or people shooting at police, shooting down innocent people."

By the way, those Vermont "hunters" seem to hit more people, per capita, than Chicago and Los Angeles gun owners. The number of gun deaths due to injury by firearms in Vermont is 9.2 per 100,000 population. In California, it is 7.7; in Illinois it is 8.6. http://kff.org/other/state-indicator/firearms-death-rate-per-100000/

[DemocratSinceBirth]

43. I am in L A and our murders are way down

http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Los-Angeles-California.html


But we have sane and progressive leadership.

[SunSeeker]

48. Yes, our Attorney General has take great strides to take guns away from criminals. nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

53. I have lived here three years...

Considering how diverse and large our state is our leaders do a good job...

And though I have witnessed a few racial incidents we seem to get along pretty good...

[wyldwolf]

44. wow! I'd not caught that. And great stats.

[1StrongBlackMan]

51. Oh damn ...

By the way, those Vermont "hunters" seem to hit more people, per capita, than Chicago and Los Angeles gun owners. The number of gun deaths due to injury by firearms in Vermont is 9.2 per 100,000 population. In California, it is 7.7; in Illinois it is 8.6. http://kff.org/other/state-indicator/firearms-death-rate-per-100000/

[DemocratSinceBirth]

56. Those are tone deaf comments...

I suspect we will hear a lot more about them in the real world.

[lunamagica]

65. Oh, my...I can't believe he said that...I'm speechless. eom

[BainsBane]

72. If he would have said guns are different in cities

That would have been a lot better. That he went on to talk about gangs certainly compounds the impression.

Also, support for gun owners doesn't translate into immunity for gun manufacturers. That vote is indefensible.

[SunSeeker]

76. Yes, and he was really dishonest about there being "extremes" on both sides of the debate.

The common sense efforts at gun control in this country, and certainly any of the proposals that have come before Bernie in the Senate, are anything but extreme. Also dishonest was his rationalization for his vote in 2005 to shield gun manufacturers from lawsuits by gun violence victims like those brought by the families of the victims of the 2012 Aurora, Colorado theater shooter:

"If somebody has a gun and it falls into the hands of a murderer and the murderer kills somebody with a gun, do you hold the gun manufacturer responsible? Not any more than you would hold a hammer company responsible if somebody beats somebody over the head with a hammer. That is not what a lawsuit should be about," Sanders said Sunday.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/05/politics/bernie-sanders-gun-control/index.html

That is a very dishonest description of that law...and the victims' lawsuits. The lawsuits don't allege manufacturers should be liable just because a gun"falls into the hands of a murderer." The lawsuits allege manufacturer liability based on the manufacturer knowing they were selling to an irresponsible retailer, or selling a product that is designed for mass killing, as opposed to hunting or self defense. That 2005 law gave special immunity to gun manufacturers that hammer manufacturers do not have. Indeed, no other manufacturers have this immunity. What this immunity does is allow gun manufacturers to continue selling guns to retailers they know or should have reason to know are selling guns to criminals and the mentally ill. Sadly, there are a minority of gun retailers who don't give a shit and are the source for most of the guns used in gun violence. And greedy gun manufacturers are more than happy to keep supplying them. That 2005 law (the PLCAA) allows gun manufacturers to keep doing that with impunity:

Because the PLCAA deals with tort law—not a topic of great interest for most Americans—it didn’t stir much outrage when first passed. But the act’s primary purpose is as simple as it is cold-blooded. Every state imposes liability on manufacturers who are negligent in their production and sale of products. If I crash my Prius because its accelerator malfunctions, I can sue Toyota for negligently manufacturing a faulty pedal. If my child dismembers himself with a blender at Sears, I can sue Sears for negligently leaving that blender within a child’s reach. If I get stabbed by a teenager with a switchblade, I might be able to sue the pawn shop owner who illegally sold a knife to a minor.

Before the PLCAA, most states imposed some form of tort liability on gun makers and sellers. If a gun manufacturer made an assault rifle that could slaughter dozens of people in a few seconds, for instance, one of its victims might sue the company for negligently making a gun that could foreseeably be used for mass murder. If a gun seller sold a gun to a customer without performing any kind of background check—and then the buyer opened fire on the subway—his victims might sue that seller for negligently providing a gun to a mentally unstable person. The standards in each state differed, but the bottom line remained the same: Victims of gun violence and their families could recover financially from the people and companies who negligently enabled gun violence.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2015/05/bernie_sanders_on_guns_vermont_independent_voted_against_gun_control_for.html

[BainsBane]

78. Exactly. Those are the same excuses we hear from the NRA

and their acolytes.

[freshwest]

84. Good charts at that link. The deaths in Vermont must be 'hunting accidents' by his reasoning.

Unfortunately the chart doesn't detail if they're from hunting, random, domestic violence or another cause. Still, that is a lot for a state of a small population.

The hunting analogy may save him and will certainly endear him to the gun crowd. I've read conservative sites that endorse him so he'll get that vote. And people do get shot hunting, but not enough to stop those who haven't suffered tragedies wanting to go out and hunt.

But bringing up LA and Chicago doesn't make his case at all. I think he's knowledgeable about his state but not others. The chart shows states he referenced have less gun deaths.

This was a faux pas under the glare of the national stage, but he's just now getting a taste of what is in store for him as the media tear apart every candidate except those favored by their billionaire owners. He'd better stand strong and keep his cool through all of this.

If it was a Republican making a gaffe like that, the media would have dozens of their talking heads promoting it all week. Oh, heck, they do it all year long every day from 'news' to 'entertainment' but it's all propaganda to me. I hated when they mistreated Jesse Jackson. They're far, far worse now.

THE MEDIA IS OVERTLY RACIST.

JMHO.

[AgingAmerican]

116. Your perception is a bias based strawman

IMHO. Bernie is speaking from reality Some cities are awash in gun violence.

Hillary supporters keep finding fault where none exists. And 'racism' where none exists.

[SunSeeker]

117. I didn't make up that quote. Bernie actually said that.

If you see nothing wrong with what he said, then you will never figure out why Sanders' supporters are so monochromatic.

[AgingAmerican]

119. YOUR interpretation of what he said is a strawman.

The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. This sort of "reasoning" has the following pattern:

Person A has position X.
Person B presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X).
Person B attacks position Y.
Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed.

[SunSeeker]

120. I know what strawman means. Do you know what tone deaf means?

It appears Bernie is at best tone deaf about how his quote would sound to Latinos and African Americans. Either that or he doesn't care. Either one would explain his "minority problem."

[AgingAmerican]

122. We see these strawmen repeatedly from Hillary supporters

That's because Bernie is the better candidate, hands down, on all issues. Hillary supporters are in a position where they have to 'invent' things to attack him with. They have to read between everything seeking little 'flaws' they can twist or distort, but this approach will not get them far. You cannot stop the truth.

As this thing moves forward, and more people hear Bernie's message and learn who he is, they will gravitate to him. This will happen across the whole political spectrum. Especially among minorities and Independents. Some will remain mired down in their biases and strawmen, but most people will eventually see the light.

Many Hillary supporters are gravitating toward Bernie, but no Bernie supporters are gravitating toward Hillary. That in itself speaks volumes.

[SunSeeker]

123. People who support Hillary aren't doing so because they are "biased" against Bernie.

Hillary supporters like her positions and her strength against the GOP field.

[AgingAmerican]

124. Her supporters are biased in favor of her

A very small contingent are obviously biased against Bernie. I am talking about those who engage in the construction, or more accurately misconstruction, of strawman attacks against him.

As stated previously, many Hillary supporters are moving into the Sanders camp, but no Sanders supporters are moving into hers. This will continue over the next year and then he will win. IMHO.

First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they ridicule you with strawmen. Then they fight you. Then you win.

Have a good night.

[appalachiablue]

135. Many people are moving to Bernie, some from Hillary as you say. Myself and the women in my

family are all Bernie supporters. Likewise Hispanics in the family, 3 generations of Cuban Americans in FL and NC and relatives from Mexico in CA and CO all favor Sanders. (A large family we are mostly Democrats for several generations with very few Republicans).

Black family members, also whites and women who are former Clinton supporters have withdrawn particularly since revelations following the 2008 financial crash, namely Hill and Bill's strong corporate and banking ties, NAFTA, deregulation of the banks, 20 years of increased prison sentences, a drastic rise in the US prison population esp. among blacks and Hispanics, and the huge increase in privatized prisons for profit. SEE Michelle Alexander's influential new book, "The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness." (2010).

As posters state here, Sanders has been campaigning in largely white population areas, so far. Many seem to forget that he is the son of an immigrant father from Poland whose family was killed in the Holocaust. From growing up in NYC he is hardly unfamiliar with urban centers and large diverse groups, many from immigrant backgrounds who make up a good deal of the NYC population.

From being a college student in Chicago he knows his way around 'big cities' and recently endorsed Hispanic Garcia there over DLC Rahm Emmanuel in the recent mayoral race. On the gun issue in the CNN interview, Sanders cited Chicago and LA gun violence not as a slam on minorities or major cities as some want to think, but to illustrate the clear difference between rural states like Vermont and large urban areas and gun usage.

Young people, minorities and middle age to older people who are using social media see an extensive and exciting amount of material on Sanders every day and their following of him is increasing. Our large family includes millennials to seniors and ranges from economically well off to middle class and slipping middle class, and all members have an increased awareness now of how badly things have been run in this country for 20+ years.

The realization that major changes in our political and economic systems are desperately needed is also increasing throughout the US. To not understand that you need to have lived in a cave or hidey hole for the last six years.
Sanders consistent message of what needs to be done to help all Americans and working families and his 40 year record are clearly connecting and gaining momentum. I don't know yet how well Hillary's new calls for more progressive measures are being received. It's early in the campaign but time will tell and that is something we can count on.

[appalachiablue]

161. I know you're aware that Sanders lived in Chicago, graduated the University of Chicago, BA

in political science, and was born and grew up in NYC the son of an immigrant from Poland.

[SunSeeker]

162. Which makes his tone deaf comments that much more surprising. nt

[appalachiablue]

166. I've lived in communities with guns in rural Ohio and Virginia, in suburban FL and MD and in

DC and NY. In growing up our home had guns that my father a military artillerist collected and used for hunting. There's a difference in the way guns are generally purchased and used in different places and settings. The incidence of crimes committed by larger and organized groups is higher in densely populated urban environments which is what Sanders was referring to. Take Baltimore where shootings and deaths in neighborhoods are reported weekly, and Sanders knows why and what to do about it as he's said many times.

Gun shootings in suburban and rural areas are no less violent or serious. But if Sanders had mentioned the gun loving culture of the west or south he would have been considered anti American, anti-rural and a NE liberal tree hugger and Jewish New Yorker. There are many scenarios to try to play if willing to look like an a*s. The CNN segment attempt to portray him as an anti-urban, anti-city racist and bigot and a small state rural hippie or 'gun nut' as said on this board, are weak distortions to find fault, which is some feat given the high marks and recognition he is receiving week by week from millions.

[bettyellen]

42. Or 3) you're familiar with the polls and face facts!

[JI7]

52. people have actually been dismissing scientific polls

And trying to say reddit is more accurate.

If you go by internet fans Ron Paul should be president.

[arely staircase]

91. +1 nt

[JI7]

47. the only minority group she lost in 2008 was black voters

And even then they still had high approvsls for her. If Obama lost iowa she would have kept her black supporters also.

It's not really about Sanders just as minority support for Hillary or Obama didn't mean they didn't like Biden our other dems .

It's more about long term relationship with the communities.

Obama won black voters by convincing them why they should vote for him. Not by making them think hillary hated them .

I prefer Sanders to Clinton but the way some talk about Hillary's minority support is really disgusting.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

202. Hillary lost black voters when she/her husband/their surrogates started playing the race card.

That is the true story and it should be told over and over again to force people to either (1) remember what happened or (2) admit that the Clintons are despicable people who resorted to utterly disgusting racist Southern Strategy politics--ultimately dividing the party.

This happened after Obama defeated her in Iowa, true, but the entire story must be told. When black voters were shocked that he could win and he EARNED their votes, many started listening to him and supporting him. Had the Clinton camp not resorted to these racist tactics, she may have been able to retain a good majority of black voters.

See, this should be a lesson for ANY Democratic Party nominee:

Stop taking black voters for granted. Yes, I know that the party wants to now appeal to Hispanic voters as the majority minority, but it remains a fact that NO Democrat can win without the black vote. That's the bottom line.

[JI7]

50. If they were low info more would be undecided

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

55. I think she had all of the votes 'locked up' at the beginning, simply with 99% name recognition and

the fact that she's been campaigning and planning since 2007 or so.

It took a solid liberal candidate getting into the race to start chewing apart that 'lock', and Bernie started chewing away first with his core constituency - mostly white, mostly male political junkies. He's expanding out into other demographics, but it does take some time to do so. So her 'lock' will fade, and she'll have to fight more to prevent more defections.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

63. Chris Hayes calls it the revolt of the upper middle class...

When you look at the internals of the polls HRC leads in all demographics but her support goes down as income goes up... Upper middle class white liberals were never too keen on Hill and Bill but it never hampered their political ambitions but once and those were extraordinary circumstances that I don't see being repeated...

IMHO, Senator Sanders turns the axiom that a candidate's support is a mile wide and an inch deep on its head...Senator Sanders' support is an inch wide and a mile deep.


Please feel free to bookmark this post...Senator Sanders will run strongest among educated, affluent liberal white primary voters. He will lag among down scale voters, less educated voters, African Americans, Asians, Latinos, and glbtq persons.

[okasha]

71. And he will lag among women.

[1StrongBlackMan]

77. +1 ...

Senator Sanders' support is an inch wide and a mile deep.

Yep ... That accounts for all the noise.

[freshwest]

121. I do love the sound of a brook for a second or two. n/t

[Indepatriot]

80. Strictly anecdotal, and I run with commie teachers/health care workers/students, but I know

NO ONE who is supporting HRC. I'm back in school at 54 (in L.A.) and virtually all of my fellow students, Asian/African American/Hispanic/Russian/Filipino are really feeling The Bern. They are overwhelmingly millenials and overwhelmingly support Bernie. They feel HRC is yesterday's news.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

87. I will see your anecdote and raise you.

I was at a dinner a couple of weeks ago at the Buca di Beppo in Santa Monica with three married couples, two same sex ones-one male and one female, and one heterosexual couple plus two females who left their husbands at home. I was the only white guy at the table. Everybody was a Pacific Islander except Julio, a Mexican guy, who is married to my friend, Gary. We talked politics, not one was for Bernie.


Bookmark this post... Bernie won't break the 30% mark in Los Angeles in the CA primary if he's still around... He will do okay in West L A and got waxed in East and South L A.

[Indepatriot]

109. Bookmark this post. Bernie will hand HRC another Super Tuesday defeat, just as Obama did.

Hillary will get some electoral votes out of CA, but Bernie will get the bulk of them.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

131. As Chairman Mao said "Before you speak, investigate."

As Chairman Mao said "Before you speak, investigate."

Bookmark this post. Bernie will hand HRC another Super Tuesday defeat, just as Obama did.

Hillary Clinton actually won the popular vote on Super Tuesday and split the delegate count:


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/06/super-tuesday-results_n_85159.html


and carried the great state of California and did especially well in Los Angeles as I suggested:

Mrs. Clinton won the hard-fought Democratic race in California, where both she and Mr. Obama had sought the state's wealth of 370 delegates to be chosen on Tuesday. According to early returns, Mrs. Clinton had strong showings in Los Angeles, Santa Clara and San Diego. Early exit polls showed Mr. Obama running strongly among African-Americans, white men, younger voters and liberals. Mrs. Clinton did well among Hispanics, white women, moderates and those who described themselves as "somewhat conservative." Those who identified themselves as Democrats tended to choose Mrs. Clinton; "independents or something else" overwhelmingly voted for Mr. Obama. A majority of Californians who were surveyed said they made up their minds in the last month. The economy was ranked most often as the top issue facing the nation, followed by the war in Iraq and health care. There were signs that both Democratic camps were growing polarized; only half of the voters said they would be satisfied if either candidate became the nominee.

http://politics.nytimes.com/election-guide/2008/results/states/CA.html

Bernie might do well in homogeneous L A hamlets like Westwood, Venice, and Santa Monica...He will do horrible in the rest of the county.


BTW, if Bernie Sanders is a proxy for Barack Obama I'm a proxy for Kobe Bean Bryant.


DemocratSinceBirth walks the talk,. If Bernie wins the nomination I will donate $500.00 to the charity of your choice. If Hillary wins you donate $500.00 here:

http://sabancommunityclinic.org/

Since we are both in the same city working out the logistics should be easy.

I am especially fond of their work . My gf's gf was having a problem pregnancy and couldn't get health insurance...This was pre ACA and the clinic paid for her prenatal care, even including specialists. Her son is now fifteen years old.

[Indepatriot]

136. My frame of reference was skewed DSB. I worked on Obama's campaign and we considered 35-40% of

delegate votes a "victory' on Super Tuesday, which we achieved. That's probably why my memory of Super Tuesday 08' is of Obama "winning" the day. I admire your putting your money where your mouth is, but I am currently an unemployed student and do not have the resources for a wager.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

137. I am unemployed as well but my gf isn't

BTW, I am unemployed but my gf isn't...

The Saban Clinic does awesome work as do the other clinics that serve the uninsured poor in L A but thanks to President Obama and Jerry Brown there are a lot less of them in this state....


Good luck in your studies.

[OnlyBernieBurnsBush]

85. A double-edged coin...

On one hand, yes the Clintons did a lot of good work in organizing marginalized voters in South.

Converesely, the 2008 campaign was too negative on race and she comes from the Third Way careerist school of right-feminism that puts her own career above the plights of Afghan or Saudi women.

Bernie, unlike the Carter-Clinton Chickenhawk wing of the party, would never sell out women in the Global South and the Arab world to appease the Military Industrial Complex or to go Rambo on some Reds.

If you think Sly was the good guy in Rambo 3, you're probably voting Hilary or GOP. If you have a more nuanced view of Afghanistan, you're probably in Camp Bernie.

[Report1212]

93. Its just Name ID -- I'm a minority voter

And most people in general dont know Sanders. The people who are getting to know him well are in IA and NH because he's spending resources there. Those are very white states.

As Bernie gets out there more his minoirty support will improve quite a bit.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

94. Respectfully I believe you are shortchanging the political acumen of your peers but we shall see...

eom

[Report1212]

96. Its a fact, most people in the country dont know bernie sanders

Latino pollster recently polled latinos on bernie, he said almost no even know who he is. You can't really argue with polls especailly when people are using them against Bernie to begin with

[uponit7771]

182. It's name ID cause Bernie isn't in Oakcliff, North Philly, Southside Chi, El Segundo... he's in

... Portland freaking Maine!!!

[Report1212]

203. Yes, but he will move through the South he already vowed to do this

And I think like when he came here in 2013 a lot of minority folks will show up to hear him out. And they might just like that message. I'm guessing they will.

[DemocraticWing]

95. Sanders will need better numbers among minorities to get the nomination.

He hasn't made his case yet, for whatever reason. It's not because he's a racist, and anybody implying that is either clueless or spiteful.

I personally believe he's better for LGBT people than Hillary, and I'm starting to see A LOT more people in our community say just that. According to my friends with Tumblr accounts, he's starting to gain a lot of traction with young queer activists, who tend to use that particular website. We're an important minority constituency within the Democratic Party too, and while I think Hillary has led early, I've definitely seen the effect of people learning where Bernie stands and becoming supporters.

One last thing: Bernie is a minority himself! He may be our first Jewish President, and I'm not entirely sure why people like to pretend this isn't true.

[TDale313]

101. Hillary's support in these communities is real and it's deep.

I happen to be a Bernie supporter, but I think it's kinda counterproductive to just dismiss that fact. She's very much trusted on issues that deeply matter to those communities, and while I may not always completely "get it" I can respect and acknowledge that fact.

What is a little puzzling to me is how much suspicion some around here who are members of those communities seem to view Bernie with. I can get "We know and trust Hillary on these issues", but it seems like that has morphed for some into "I don't trust Bernie on these issues" and I don't know how much is based on real concerns and how much is making the case for their candidate and the fact that we've already kinda gone into our various camps here on DU.

[olddots]

148. well said

the protest seems prompted .

[1StrongBlackMan]

155. I offer, as a member of that community, that ...

The morphing that you hear is not coming from our communities; but rather, the straw man narrative of Bernie supporters.

I think if you were to trace the "distrust" back you will see something like this:

PoC: "Bernie's economic primacy message doesn't resonate with me because it doesn't address what most closely affects my life."

Bernie Supporter: "Nonsense. Economic justice will bring social justice. "

oC: "No. It doesn't. And, if that is the informing basis for the almost exclusive economic message, there is an easily solvable disconnect of message ... speak about social justice, sans-serif the economic justice part. "

Bernie Supporter: "Why are you calling Bernie a racist? He marched with MLK!"

PoC : "Granted. But what he did 60 years ago is irrelevant to this conversation today. I want to hear that he understands my interests, i.e., social justice is among my primary concerns. "

Bernie Supporter: "See? There you go again implying that Bernie doesn't care about PoC!"

PoC: "Forget it."

[uponit7771]

184. +1

[TDale313]

191. I think there's a lot of truth to that.

I've been really trying to work through this myself, especially the last few days. Bernie's message has resonated, but I've also found myself in the odd position of being in a very different space in this early part of the primary, specifically on Bernie and how he has (or hasn't) been addressing social justice issues from people on DU that I tend to respect and am often in sync with.

Here's where I've kinda come to. Yes, Bernie needs to address these issues more directly. I think he and the campaign were kinda caught off guard by the fact that he's facing questions about why he hasn't talked about it more. It might be a mistake (clearly it was), but I think they thought the fact that he was good on civil rights issues and social justice was a given. Not so much. He's gotten the question in interviews (On Al Sharpton's show, for one- who started by saying he knew Bernie's commitment on Civil Rights over the years, but...) and elsewhere I think. I believe this isn't just a DU thing.

My take is now this. Bernie and his campaign need to reach out and address these issues. That has to come from them. I (and others) may trust that he gets it, but they need to make the case, directly.

What we supporters can do is listen. We can try to get past being defensive or dismissive and acknowledge that there people who *are* paying attention who don't feel he is addressing the issues they care deeply about in a way they need/want to hear. We can keep from reinforcing the impression that, if not Bernie, at the very least his supporters, don't treat those issues as a priority.

[1StrongBlackMan]

193. Thank you for this post ...

I have no doubt that the Bernie campaign thought the fact that he was good on civil rights issues and social justice was a given. And, for most, (myself included) ... his being good on these issues, is not being questioned ... what IS in question for me is his reluctance to address them in non-economic terms. Which says to me that he cannot/does not comprehend the difference, which doesn't bode well for me.

[TDale313]

194. If Bernie wants to be more than...

The candidate who ran to bring attention to economic justice issues, he and the campaign are gonna have to address this, soon. They now have an issue. He's going to have to get comfortable talking about social justice on its own terms. Things have happened fast- I don't imagine the campaign is where they thought it would be right now- including the momentum bringing increased scrutiny. I think there may be a little some defensiveness and some uncertainty how to address this. IMO they need to figure it out- and fast- if they want to continue to grow as a campaign. The problem with not addressing it directly, in addition to leaving people asking "why aren't you talking about this" is that you leave others to fill in blanks, and that's a huge problem. I think he's a truly special candidate. I think he really, really gets it on so many issues. I hope they can get this right.

[1StrongBlackMan]

199. I largely agree. n/t

[uponit7771]

183. Cause Bernie is doing the EXACT SAME THING Kerry did and not talk at racial issues specifically...

... that's a big tell tale that either he's uncomfortable at addressing these issues or that he doesn't have a big position on them either is fucked up...

But...

He has time to change and hone this message... he's smart, I'm sure this too will pass

[1StrongBlackMan]

185. I would agree ...

he has time.

[hopemountain]

105. the bernie sanders campaign can get the minority vote

by appealing to young minority voters who are students or recent graduates, minority union members, and low wage earners, disabled & retired or lower income minority workers. minority students, in particular, should not be much of a challenge to reach as they can easily be contacted through on campus campaign efforts and social media.

although bernie appears to have more educated, middle income white voters, hillary's minority supporters seem to be more educated, middle class professionals or upper wage earners - many of whom have already transitioned from lower income neighborhoods/lifestyles.

as a minority woman, i see from facebook & other social media, the majority of my minority friends/family, and other contacts are posting pro bernie campaign material. i would like to add these are younger adults and several live in texas which is my family's home state.

at this point - it all too early to tell who will win the primary for the democrats. we all have a whole lot of work to do regardless which candidate we support.

it is good we are assessing or discerning outreach potential & attitudes at this time. but, let us not taint or burn out from negativity.

let's just make sure the best democrats win the white house and congress in 2016.

[artislife]

192. Yes, as a Latina, Native, White mixed woman I concur

Like your avatar! Yes, most of the women who are posting anything political are under 40 and pro Bernie Sanders. These are friends here is Washington State and in Colorado. We are the pot smokers of the country, so who knows if that skews my data. hehe Some of my over 55 friends were signing up that they were ready for Hilary early on. I didn't think there would be a candidate from one of the two parties that would make me happy or committed. But I like Sanders. He cuts through all the lines. There are a lot of younger people who are mixed, socially aware and liberal and the old way of categorizing them may not work.

[hopemountain]

204. we are similar

also native - chicana india with some jewish heritage. welcome to du

[artislife]

206. Great avatar! and thank you! nt

[Sunlei]

126. I think BOTH of them speak to ALL American citizens. Its republican party who discriminate against

some demographics thus have to rebrand all the time and do their "courting dance"games.

[tularetom]

144. Low income white voters have no problem voting against their economic interests

Do you want to deny African American voters that same option?

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

149. I'm getting tired of this shit too. Many of us have not forgotten about Clinton racial politics.

Dog whistle politics referring to "hard working white people"?

Evidence: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/08/clinton-obama-not-winning_n_100763.html

and here: http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0508/Garin_Clinton_won_the_white_vote.html

Bill Clinton's racist statements about Jesse Jackson?

Evidence: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0108/7845.html

and here the audio/video:

Geraldine Ferarro claim that Obama's race was the reason why people supported him, even though Hillary enjoyed overwhelming support from black voters initially?

Evidence: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/13/us/politics/13ferraro.html?_r=0

and here on Faux News, nevertheless: Geraldine Ferarro's comments:

Hillary alludes to the assassination of Bobby Kennedy during a time when Obama was receiving an unprecedented number of death threats?

Evidence: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/24/us/politics/24clinton.html

And this statement is precisely what turned the Kennedy family against Hillary Clinton for the nomination. Despicable!!!

They all went on Faux News to ridicule and play racial dog whistle politics, knowing that working class white Democrats weren't supporting Obama. For example, Ed Rendell praising Faux News for it's unbiased coverage: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/31/clinton-surrogate-ed-rend_n_94280.html

I have no reason to lie!

The Clintons were disgusting, as were their surrogates and many of their fans.

I WILL NEVER SHUT MY MOUTH ON THIS ISSUE! I will never keep quiet until people wake up and own it!

[Sheepshank]

156. She has spoken out strongly for immigration and a path to citizenship all along

and most recently repeats those positions in her campaign speeches. The minorities knows she has their back.

[Gothmog]

179. Slate-Why Bernie Sanders Is the Left’s Ron Paul

Last edited Tue Jul 7, 2015, 10:36 PM - Edit history (1)

Slate makes essentially the same argument as the OP in that Sanders has a limited appeal to a significant portion of the base http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2015/07/bernie_sanders_is_the_left_s_ron_paul_why_the_vermont_senator_s_popularity.html

Which brings us back to Bernie. Sanders is a fascinating candidate with a vital, underrepresented message in American politics. But the same qualities that make him unique—relative independence from the Democratic Party, a foundational critique of American politics—make him unsuited for a major party nomination, much less the Democratic one. The more moderate and conservative parts of the Democratic coalition won’t support a left-wing candidate like Sanders, and the more strategic voters—party stalwarts like black Americans—will be skeptical that Sanders could win the White House, even if they agree with his ideas and policies.

To appeal to the party overall, and not just an ideological faction, Sanders would have to tailor himself to the priorities of the Democratic coalition beyond its most liberal members. But the cost of that change is to shed the things that make him unique. And Sanders knows it. It’s why he won’t engage in traditional fundraising—it’s hard to speak truth to power when you’re catering to millionaire fundraisers.

I like Sanders personally but I do not think that he will appeal to the base as a whole and I doubt that he is viable in a general election unless he engages in traditional fundraising.

[noiretextatique]

196. nail...meet head. conservative and moderate democrats will not support him

i am sick of voting for the mushy middle candidates anyway. perhaps it is time for conservatives and moderates to "take one for the team" for the good of the country. god knows everyone else already has.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

186. Bernie

http://www.democraticunderground.com/128022113

[noiretextatique]

195. i am a black Sanders supporter

so is my cousin. we are high-information voters: perhaps that's why we support Sanders. there is no gigantic "outreach" effort necessary. sanders has been a supporter of civil rights since before it was in vogue to do it. and he is consistent on the issues of importance to me as an american, as a woman, as a black person, and as a progressive. if he is not "speaking to minorities": i suggest they are unwilling to listen.

[akbacchus_BC]

197. Glad you brought this up, Mrs. Clinton could never get my vote

if I were an American but I don't! So am just expressing my opinion, after the BS she pulled when she and the current President were in the Primaries, I would never trust her far less vote for her. I have no idea how President Obama elected her as SOS. Mrs. Clinton is not viable, have no idea who Bernie Sanders position is in the Senate and Congress, hope Americans know. I just wish Biden would throw his hat in, then you all will have a true liberal who is not only for the working class but also for the working poor, who has to have three fucking jobs or two to make ends meet.

And it is time for the police state to go away and to stop killing of black kids without any reason and take the prison system back and not make POC get longer prison terms for the same crimes that white folks do. Just look at Cops and you will know what am trying to say!