Relax, should HRC become the nominee

[whatchamacallit]

On Election Day even the most uninspired democrats will dutifully drag their sad zombie asses into the booth and cast their perfunctory, lesser of two evils, vote for Dynasty Clinton. Proof once more that the two party cattle chute, we call democracy, works perfectly.

[Metric System]

1. This deserved it's own thread?

[whatchamacallit]

3. Just a PSA response

to all the concern threads about not voting for the nominee.

[kath]

6. Yeah, how many dozens of those are we up to already?

[bvf]

41. Thank you for saying

what I was just thinking. These things are getting tiresome. That's not meant to slam the posters, who seem to be well-meaning in the main, but that horse is Alpo by now.

I assume (for the last time) that many of us here will be clenching our jaws come election day as we fill bubbles/poke holes/pull levers (does anyone do that last one anymore?).

Those petulant types who choose to sit things out will know who's responsible if the shit hits the fan.

[LWolf]

36. Did 3 different rants

demanding loyalty oaths deserve their own this morning?

[Scootaloo]

51. Well, it's no worse than the constant srtream of loyalty pledge damands, really

granted no better either.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

2. I knew Mondale and The Duke were going to lose but I dragged my ass to the poll any way

I knew Mondale and Duke were going to lose but I dragged my ass to the polls any way because it was the right thing to do...

[zappaman]

16. God, I knew Dukakis didn't have a chance.

But pulled the lever.

[PoliticAverse]

26. I thought he was going to win, but then I judged by the signs in the greek neighborhood

I was in.

[Prism]

4. The Millennial Vote will be interesting

If they don't show up, poof.

My major concern about a Clinton nomination is that people honestly expect the younger generation to vote for the same old shit. Obama had charisma and a cultural cachet. He did a phenomenal job connecting and motivating younger voters. He convinced many different groups that he would change the system.

Clinton is largely a known quantity and the ultimate Establishment figure. Furthermore, she is not known for being an amazing campaigner. I just don't envision her plastic, forced quality translating or connecting nearly as well. Think of it like that older uncle who's all, "Hey dudes, I like cool things too!" and you just cringe in response because it's so uncomfortably dated and out of joint.

At this point, I expect a Clinton nomination and am praying the Republicans nominate someone truly unelectable.

[Metric System]

5. If only we had polls to answer this...

[Prism]

7. We have polls gauging support

But enthusiasm and turn out come election day is a different kettle of fish. We won't be able to really gauge that accurately until we draw closer to the general election. A poll showing 100% support for a candidate doesn't matter if only three of those voters show up.

Who knows, though. Maybe the Republicans will nominate someone so terrible that younger voters will be climbing over one another to get inside the booths.

[Avalux]

37. About millenials....

my daughters are part of that generation and tell me that the older generations expect them to follow the same rules and behave the same way they did and do (status quo). Millenials are living in a different world of extremely high unemployment; they have enormous debt from college and can't find a job. Owning a home, getting married and having kids (aka the The American Dream) isn't even in their thoughts. Case in point - Hillary's profit sharing idea - not relevant to them.

They don't watch TV news or read the NYT or WaPo; they are on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and Tumblr.

These kids think that the only way they'll have any kind of future is if our society changes. Bernie Sanders is resonating with them...I think maybe because he's such a straight shooter and they're sick of the bullshit.

Now as you've pointed out, what matters is if they actually show up and vote. I think as a collective they're reaching critical mass and know they need to take their futures into their own hands, so I'm optimistic that they will.

[Prism]

38. I hope you are correct

I'm slightly too old to be a Millennial (mid-30s), but my partner is one and most of my friends as well (mid to late 20s). Their lives are a mess. Massive student debt from degrees that are not helping as they approach their 30s with jobs at Target or Uniqlo. I have friends living 4-5 people in one and two bedroom apartments (and that's in the cheaper parts of the Bay Area). Even the ones who "succeeded" are struggling. One friend is working 60-80 hours a week at a successful firm and still living at home.

Bernie's name comes up a lot with my friends who follow politics. With those who don't, they still don't know who he is. I've heard a lot of, "Oh God, not Hillary," but anecdotes aren't data as they say.

I hope he or O'Malley connect. Personally, I'd be fine with either of them at this point in time. I just so very much want to see the next generation stand up and shout, "You people are fucking wrecking us, and we're not going to sit for this!" Hope hope.

[Avalux]

39. I am encouraged when I hear stories like yours, and how similar they are to mine.

I thought my generation (X) was aimless, but these kids really need something to look forward to, and need to realize they have to be the ones to do it by using the very system that keeps them down to overcome it.

I like O'Malley too and would be happy with him as well. Unfortunately the ugly truth is that unless an obscene amount of cash is amassed and the media is manipulated with it, the person who may be the best president doesn't stand a chance.

It has to change.

[London Lover Man]

42. I'm one generation behind the Millennials.

And I am very enamored to Bernie and many of my friends are.

[artislife]

53. Could be because we had the Battle in Seattle against the WTO

But a lot of the Occupiers didn't just fall away. They got involved. How else do you get a Socialist elected? They are referendum type voters but they are very political. Because it matters to them. They are under no illusion that things will magically be better for them than their parents. The fact that H and Bill have been a part of the establishment since they were kids isn't exactly working in their favor.in

Will they vote the top of the ticket? They have to feel it matters, there are too many things that are at critical mass and if they don't feel like it matters. They won't vote.

I think Bernie at the top of the ticket, brings in more voters. YMMV

When they see Bernie, he is talking to them. They see how he hasn't changed his fights. How he worked with congress and against.

[whatchamacallit]

10. Very true

And it will be interesting to see if the Clinton camp ignores it (to their peril) or cooks up some likely-to-fail PR ruse.

[Prism]

19. Obama crushed Clinton in the youth vote

Absolutely destroyed her.

Demographically, on Super Tuesday in 2008, Clinton didn't beat Obama until you started looking at people aged 45+.

There's a really interesting Pew write up of Super Tuesday's results and the youth vote here:

http://www.pewresearch.org/2008/02/11/young-voters-in-the-2008-presidential-primaries/

Furthermore, the youth turnout in primaries had doubled in 2008 over 2000 (17% vs 9%). Ultimately, for the entire primary, Obama received 60% of the youth vote. He simply had skills that Clinton lacks, and I do wonder how this will affect the general.

There's a resting assumption that with no Obama in the race, Clinton will automatically draw everyone he won. But that is simply because those commentators are dismissing the enthusiasm factor which, as we know, can absolutely devastate a party's national chances.

[Maedhros]

8. "Meek and obedient you follow the leader down well-trodden corridors

into the valley of steel..."

[zappaman]

17. Thank you for reminding me David Gilmour tix go on sale at noon!

[kath]

9. Well, those of us who live in states where our vote doesn't matter, thanks to the anachronistic,

, ridiculous Electoral College can write in Bernie, or Mickey Mouse, or just leave the Presidential spot blank.

[whatchamacallit]

11. Same here

That's why we need to get a nominee we can care about voting for.

[kath]

20. Did it in 2012, will do it again if I have to.

No way will I add to HRC's pop vote total if she is the nominee.

In my particular Red State Hell, no write-ins allowed, so had to just leave the spot blank last time.

[LondonReign2]

43. Exact same here

I'll dutifully vote for all the Dems down ballot (though truth be told, it is so red here that only 1/3 to 1/2 of the positions even have Dems running!), but I won't cast a meaningless vote for HRC since it won't matter here anyway

[BKH70041]

12. It's amazing how many here have no principles.

If I were a Sanders supporter and believed the things the supporters here claim they do about Clinton, then I wouldn't vote for her in the GE. At some point you've got to let the other foot hit the floor and say "No more!"

But they get sucked in by "lesser of two evils," "USSC," etc... I just couldn't do it. I have too much backbone that staying just wouldn't be an option.

The Sanders supporters nationwide, should he not be the nominee, need to go form their own party. They're constantly trying to change the Democratic Party into the image they want it to be, and that's just not going to happen. If it ever did happen, the Party would collapse in on itself and fade into the dust-bin of history for being worthless.

They'll be much happier if they just move on.

[whatchamacallit]

13. Interesting perspective

from a Hillary supporter I wonder if many others agree...

[kath]

21. Thanks for that post.

One thing though - many, if not most of us are not "constantly trying to change the Democratic Party into the image they want it to be" but would be thrilled to at least have the Party be like it USED to be, before it was infiltrated by the DLCer Conservadems. Those people should go back to their Republican party.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

31. If the left does form a third party of any strength,

look for generations of Republicans in the WH, since the left will be split for a loooong time. We've seen that the centrists refuse to even consider leftist candidates, and continually demand that the lefties give up on principle and vote for the centrist candidates or else be branded as 'helping Republicans get elected'. The centrists won't simply 'fade away', they'll continue to fight to keep socially liberal plutocrat supporters in power.

[BKH70041]

40. You know, at some point you just gotta say...

"I'm not going to vote for two sides of the same coin and actually vote for what I believe in." And that's the way many of you feel. I don't agree with you on that, but that's not the point.

The point is take a stand and quit being suckered into "Oh no, if we do this then all is lost for a loooong time" or you're "'helping Republicans get elected."

Besides, I'm not so sure that would be the case.

[LondonReign2]

44. You've got it a bit backwards

We are trying to return the Democratic Party to what it was before it triangulated itself into a facsimile of 1980's Republicans.

There is no need for us to form our own party when we are the roots of the Democratic Party. If on the other hand all the disaffected Republicans that found that party becoming even too extreme for their taste and joined the Democrats and have since been trying to pull the party ever more rightward wish to move on, well I'll help them pack.

[BKH70041]

45. We'll have to disagree.

Those of us who run the party are the same as we've been since way back when. And I say that as the largest individual money donor to the party on this site. It will continue as it currently is.

The question then becomes do you want to remain and support what you consider to be a "right-ward drifting corporate party" (it's not), or do you want to move on. Because the one thing that won't happen is what you wish would happen, that is, making the party into something that it never was.

[LondonReign2]

48. Evidence is to the contrary, on economic issues

Sorry, while the Democratic Party has remained liberal on social issues, there can be no question it has moved rightward economically. We have a Democratic President who openly admits his economic policies are mainstream 1980s Republican, that in many ways Richard Nixon was more liberal than he is, and speaks positively about Ronald Reagan. We have a faction of the party, or who at least claim to be Democrats, that wants to reduce and privatize social security benefits, reduce corporate taxes, and pass the TPP. All Republican positions.

You may feel that you personally have not changed; one has to be blind not to see that the party has lurched rightward.

Say hi to Brooklyn at the salon.

[GoneFishin]

52. +1000

[GoneFishin]

50. I'll get the door for them. I think the right wing of the Democratic party is a group of

corporatists whose real loyalty is to money and power, not the party, but have found their goals can be advanced effectively from inside the opposition's tent. Joe Lieberman comes to mind. Democratic voters should have sent his ass packing a lot sooner.

[LordGlenconner]

49. To be fair

The Bernie supporters I've come into contact with in the real world seem more realistic and far less obnoxious than some of the more strident supporters here.

Faint praise, and anecdotal, but the difference has struck me.

[99Forever]

14. Speak for yourself, sir.

There's many that have had more than their fill of that. They weirdly believe they don't owe their vote to any political party or person.

[whatchamacallit]

18. I know

Believe me I understand that sentiment.

[99th_Monkey]

15. Voting is just not good enough

You must at least try to feign some enthusiasm, not just drag your ass to vote,
you must also be "happy" about it, volunteer, canvass doors, register new voters,
and give LOTS of your money to the "inevitable" Democrat.

If you don't do this, you are 'helping elect' Jeb Bush.

[JoePhilly]

23. Endless whining is the best strategy.

From what I see on DU.

[NCTraveler]

22. Most Sanders supporters possess much more depth than you give them credit for.

Projection, it's what's for dinner. Unlike you, other Sanders supporters are not ready to give up. That is the tone you have so indignantly displayed in your op. They have more confidence. Amazingly shallow op.

On election day, most Sanders supporters plan on voting for Sanders. They expect victory in the primaries. He is better than your negativity.

Very unique. Yesterday you were aggressive and angry to the point you couldn't connect thoughts. Today it is thoughts of abject failure, giving up, and being a victim of the game.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251447166

[whatchamacallit]

24. Maybe you missed where I said

should HRC become the nominee. I will work hard to avoid that outcome. Your bluster is misplaced.

[NCTraveler]

25. I don't think it is misplaced at all.

The tone, and overwhelming majority of what you wrote, is clear. You should at least agree that what you have written is extremely shallow.

[whatchamacallit]

32. I'm speaking about the general election

or did you miss that too? What do you believe and hope most democrats do in the general if Hillary is the nominee?

[GoneFishin]

28. It's the Fox News approach to election predictions : repeat it a lot and some lemmings will believe

it and follow along.

I will vote for the candidate who earns my vote in the primary and GE.

[whatchamacallit]

30. Other DUers are the mindless lemmings?

But of course it has no effect on your superior mind...

[GoneFishin]

33. Only those who are persuaded by a transparent "do what we do or you won't be popular" argument.

[whatchamacallit]

34. Ah

[GoneFishin]

27. Good luck with that. I won't vote for a candidate that doesn't earn my vote.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

29. I don't think so.

And it's blackmail to blame the victims should she fail to be inspiring enough of a candidate to drag enough 'sad zombie asses' into the voting booths.

If she loses, it's because she was the wrong candidate for the general, and the blame lies with her and the people who saddled the party with her as the nominee.

[GoneFishin]

35. " ... saddled the party with her ... ". Well put.

[kath]

47. +1.

[Puglover]

56. Oh but that wont't be the way it plays on DU.

It will be teh Bernie supporters fault complete with links to the few folks that have said they will not vote for her.

Just as it was all Nader's fault that Gore lost Florida.

Watch and wait. If Hillary wins the primary I hope to God she wins the general. I think there is a very large chance she will not and that scares the bejeezus out of me.

[Robbins]

46. Don't bet on it

If she is nominee i am staying home on election day here In Missouri.First time i will not vote since i turned 18 back in 1992.

No more corporate dems for me.I am not very happy with Missouri dems after the michael brown case in ferguson eather.

[DJ13]

54. .....and if (when) she wins, life continues down the same path we've been on for 30 years

Yay!

[840high]

55. No. I'll write in Bernie's name.