So lets get this straight...Hillary and Bill made some questionable 'racist' comments in 2008

[Joe the Revelator]

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0108/7845.html
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/08/04/bill-clinton-i-am-not-a-racist/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/12/obama-camps-memo-on-clint_n_81205.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/racial-tensions-roil-democratic-race/


But now....all of sudden....with no real factual basis.....Bernie Sanders is being meme'd to death as being a racist, while Hillary sits above the fray.


I am not saying that this is some back channel Rovian political jiu-jitsu, but I wouldn't argue with someone who did. (/passive agresive)

[bravenak]

1. No one thinks Bernie is a racist.

I have not seen anybody say so. He is just having problems connecting. The meme is about his supporters (not ALL of them) harassing black twitter to DEATH.

[Joe the Revelator]

2. I disagree.....he has been singled out #bernisoblack...

....is just one of the examples. Pushing back against a non-factual meme with actual facts is not 'harassing' anyone. Its trying to have a discussion.

[Agschmid]

4. You could easily start #HillaryBeBlacker

[Cheese Sandwich]

27. I think #hillarySoWhite would be funnier

[merrily]

52. Point is, no one has.

[Agschmid]

54. Again you could...

[merrily]

56. Again, that is not the point.

You are responding as though the point is that I want to start race-based twitter about Hillary. I don't.

The point is, she used a Presidential primary campaign strategy in 2008 against a fellow Democrat, trying to divide voters by race, yet the race based twitter in this Presidential primary was begun about Bernie, not her. You know that, right?

[Agschmid]

74. Meh... Unfortunately that's not the issue at hand.

But hey keep it up by all means.

At least that's not the issue that matters to me, but that sure does seem to be the talking point of the moment.

[merrily]

79. Yet, you brought it up in Reply 4 and replied about it more than once--and just did again.

In general, I don't get it when people keep making my "My Posts" tab go yellow, then imply I'm the only one keeping the discussion going.

[Joe the Revelator]

7. huh?

I mean, i know what thread you're linking. It was silly last night and its still silly tonight, but I don't see at all what it has to do with anything. And you're saying you alerted on my comment? Why?

[Joe the Revelator]

13. This is the last response I'm giving you.

Stop being silly.

[RobertEarl]

15. Think of it as a protest

Like BLM did to Bernie.

Only Bernie handled it with class, eh, joe?

[bravenak]

12. Berniesoblack is about his supporters schooling black folks on civil rights.

I swear. I was there when it started.
A comedian on twitter (see it's a joke) kept getting nasty messages about how bernie MARCHED FOR CIVIL RIGHTS BEFORE YOU WERE BORN! And much and more. So he felt like Bernies supporters were trying to out black him (say that bernie was blacker than him), since they kept bombarding him saying that BERNIE HAS DONE MORE FOR BLACK CIVIL RIGHTS THAN YOU! So he started berniesoblack.

I posted about it a few hours into the meme and some people (possibly fromDU and elsewhere) started harrassing Imani Gandy and the creator and EVERY BLACK PERSON TWEETING berniesoblack.

It us making fun of his supporters, who he calls Standers (cross between Stan from the eminem song and Sanders) that will not learn to just stop trying to lecture black people on race and MLK and civil rights. And keep bring up the marches like we own Bernie our silence because he marched. Keep telling them that Lieberman marched and we still don't like him.

This was a full report because I brought the hashtag over here to show his supporters tgat the harassing was hurting him with black voters. Ta da!

[Joe the Revelator]

16. I get that, I read the vox article, but a couple of points

1. Its said that the post is aimed at his supporters, but it smears Sanders directly. Its not #sanderstanssoblack or any other funnier or wittier hashtag then i was able to come up with on the spot

2. I disagree with the idea that mentioning the fact that Sanders has a record of fighting for social justice should not be welcomed in the conversation. Its pertinent because for some reason Sanders does seem to be targeted as just some out of touch white dude, which given his history isn't fair. If the anger was being equally directed at all candidates (and I have no idea why nobody seems to be protesting or filibustering republican campaign events) then I'd see the point better. But as it stands Bernie has arguably the better record on civil rights/social justice/ actual proposals than, lets say for example, Hillary, who went right for Obama's skin color when things got rough for her in '08. Jiu-Jitsu!

[bravenak]

20. Bombarding non supporters is counterproductive at this point.

Doing it to black people doubly so. People need to check themselves. We read to. We know Bernies record. We want more and to stop being bombarded with facts that we already know by condescending paternalisting well meaning white liberals. We know what he stands for. We want him to do face to face meetings and hire some damn black people. Reporting on his record is annoying since we know. We already know. Been knew. Getting told that Bernie is the great black saviour is pissing us off.

We want out lives to be at the TOP of the agenda. Your lives already matter. We get treated like animals. We want justice and we want to stop being persecuted. We want you all to stand with us and stop lecturing and help fight for our lives. With out the lectures and paternalism.

[Joe the Revelator]

24. Again....why were Bernie and O'Malley targeted?

Why is Bernie continually being targeted. If the goal is to get BLM at the top of this year's campaign agenda, why is the front runner not having speeches interrupted or hashtags bashing her? Why, oh god why, aren't BLM activists breaking down the door at republican candidates appearances? Why hasn't someone like Trump or Walker been held to the fire? Why isn't Hillary being held to the fire for the comments illustrated in the links I've included above?

Alot of questions I know, and they are mostly rhetorical, but I want you to know why I, personally, feel that this anger is at best misdirected and at worst ginned up political theater.

And also for the record, check my post history, I am not a Stan for Sanders, or even a real supporter of him. I think that Hillary is a terrible candidate who has real issues (see the op) that are often ignored.

[bravenak]

25. If Hillary were there she would have got hers.

But... She got heckled there before and is not finna go back up in there!! They said they'll get her too.

They really see no use in dealing with republicans. I'm sure you don't either. No point. They plan on getting them too though. See, right now some folks are hurt because of their candidate getting critisized and will not let him fix it himself. They keep trying to get Elon fired and are going through all these changed. They do not see that Bernie mishandled the framing. Hell, O'Malley did too, but he stayed andctalked to the protestors afterwards. He fixed it. Bernie left and sent an aide. Then his fan started harassing black folks. He really had just a minor slip,up that coukd have been fixed easily by just meeting with the group. Hire some black staff so he knows wtf black twitter is saying. But no, they panic and damage the situation worse.
It's not him. It's the die hard super angry condescending supporters who won't let him fix his own shit. They think they are saving him but they are just making his message fall flat. I think me and just about every other black person has recieved a full biography by now.

The supporter of O'Malley mostly just chilled and let their guy handle it. They trusted him. That's why you don't see omalleysoblack.

[Joe the Revelator]

28. I may be wrong, but didn't Sanders have a meeting scheduled with BLM for the same day....

....after the Netroots event? Like I said, I may be wrong about that, but I thought I read it.

[bravenak]

30. It was supposed to be after the event.

He sent an aide. I guess that was the plan all along, but after that fiasco, he should just plan to meet up with them this week or so. Make it a thing, attend a rally and eat some churros.

[Joe the Revelator]

33. I want a churro

(Btw, thanks for the discussion, I like your style).

[bravenak]

36. Lol! Thanks. I love churros.

[merrily]

58. But she wasn't there. Maybe Bernie left and sent an aide because 2 events in Texas the next

day and did not want to have to cut the discussion short?

[bravenak]

60. Possibly. But he still needs to go himself. Some felt like he thought he was too good.

[merrily]

64. You are saying he should have done something no human I know of could have managed.

If the meeting had been scheduled at a time that was mutually convenient, and he didn't go, fine. Criticize. But, as it was, he could not have shown up himself and made the two rallies in Texas the next day. So, he did what he could.

Some felt like he thought he was too good.

Based on what? Is there some evidence of his acting as though he is too good to be with people? Did anyone even consider that his schedule might have been the reason?

I am not on twitter, but I will tell you my perspective. I see things being said about Bernie that I do not agree with and that I think are possibly unfair.. So, I try to give another perspective. I am not trying to school black people. I think everyone wants to know facts. But I am not even trying to school everyone but blacks, either. I'm trying to give info that I think everyone may not know.

I would do the same for you, if I saw you being attacked on DU. Because of my own opinion of you, I would see those attacks as unfair and probably coming at you because someone didn't know about you. So, I might say that I had been posting with you and to you for a while and had never seen anything that deserved an attack. And, depending on the nature of the attack, I'd add something specifiic. Would I be trying to school DU, or just trying to give an attacker info I think he or she might not have, so I could defend and support someone I thought deserved it?

There are a number of ways someone might react to my attempt, depending on the result one seeks. One way might be to barrage me with a wall of personal insults. That might not be the most productive way from my perspective, but, as I said, it depends on the result one is seeking.

[bravenak]

65. Man. It is how the primaries roll.

We gotta make our voices heard so we actually stop dying in the streets and put in jail cells. Even if it mean confronting people.
It's different when you have thousands of supporters harassing only black people for days on end. Even republicans don't do that to us on twitter. It's like no conversation can be had without the approval of the self appointed overseer of black facts and accuracy. What started as jokes, ended up being real. Brutally real. Still going on, the bashing of black folks by your allies. What can I say but that it makes the group look overbearing and clueless.

[merrily]

68. Yes, you HAVE to make your voice heard, both individually and as a people. If you

recall, "let no one silence your voice" was something I posted to you. It may even have been my very first post to you. I don't know if I agreed with your specific point or not, but I was adamant that criticism or an alert should not make you shy away from speaking your truth. As for BLM, my god, I cannot fault them. If anything, I'd say do more and, if you give me advance notice I'll join you.

I would never fault BLM for demonstrating. The only things I've been trying to address with you on this thread are possible reasons for Bernie's reaction. Humanly, I don't think he could have been at that meeting. That's all I'm saying.

Still going on, the bashing of black folks by your allies.

I am not allies with people who bash by race. Millions of people support Bernie. I cannot be responsible for what they do, only for me.

[bravenak]

71. No. But they are the actual problem.

I think he will recover very soon. He seems to be. Thank you.

[merrily]

72. You're welcome. Thank you.

[George II]

73. Even though Clinton had an Arkansas engagement that SAME night she was criticized...

....for not being there - "it's a short flight from Phoenix to Arkansas" (which is false, it's 4-5 hours)

Phoenix to Dallas is an even SHORTER flight, and non-stop, and his Dallas rally was the NEXT day, not the same night!

There goes that excuse.

[merrily]

81. I did not criticize Clinton for not being there, so that has nothing to do with my post.

However, you excusing her while saying Sanders had no "excuse
is interesting.

As far as Sanders, he had to fly from the east coast to Phoenix in order to be at netroots in the first instance. (I assume. AFAIK, no events closer to Phoenix were scheduled close to that evening.)

He spoke at night, after O'Mallaey. He had to fly to Texas for two rallies in two different Texas cites the next day. That's three long, high stress events in three cities, after flying across country. And he had to get some sleep at some point. So, no, I don't think the "excuse" of not being able to attend a meeting of indefinite length after the Phoenix rally goes anywhere. It's really easy to say "Oh, that's very do-able when you are not the one hauling ass and giving speeches that you hope will get you a Presidential primary win.

[Luminous Animal]

34. I want hold on to some things you say and take this step by step because I respect you and like you

#1 Did anyone from the BLM movement ask for a dialogue with the Sanders (or O'Malley of Clinton) campaign prior to NrN?

Seriously, I want to keep the communication open. Because the first step in any activist goal is asking to speak to your target first. To lay out your goals. Did Black Lives Matter ask Bernie or Martin to meet face to face prior to shutting it down?

[bravenak]

35. They were supposed to meet up with both candidates afterwards.

O'malley stayed and flubbed his way through, but handled it. Bernie did so so, got kinda mad and told them he's been fighting for civil rights for 50 years, if they didn't want him there he'd leave. He got cut off early, because they protested Omalley first. He left and sent an aide to the meeting. They seem to take offense at him not showing up himself since omalley, who got it worse, did.

I don't think it was made to where they could meet before hand, they wanted to use the time to get the message about Sandra Bland out in public.
There is still time to meet up and try to get on the same page.

[Joe the Revelator]

41. RE: Sandra Bland

I'm veering off topic a bit, but why do you think this hasn't picked up the attention it should? I consider myself fairly plugged in, and i didn't even know the ins and outs of it until this weekend. In a year of really fucked up stuff, her death is certainly near the top of, but it seems to not be talked about as much as it should. What's your take on it?

[bravenak]

44. She's black. If she were a missing white girl like Natalie Halloway, there would be

lifetime movie specials up the ying yang.

[Joe the Revelator]

45. Here's the thing that's bothering me....

To me it seems like Michael Brown got a lot of attention. Eric Garner got a fair amount. But the three most atrocious examples (imo) of just outright bullshit, Sandra Bland Tamir Rice and Bounkham Phonesavanh have gotten very little attention. Maybe my views on #BLM are evolving as I sit here even. Maybe 'saying there names", something that seemed like a small, unhelpful demand, really is the first step. Those cases need more attention and if that's the case, there are probably so many more that i don't know about.

[bravenak]

49. Women are deemed worth less than men. Black women even more so.

A cop could rape and murder me and nobody would know or care. And white dude can go on a reservation and rape rape rape rape, and nobody cares. They do nothing. They notice there was a sexism issue, they got called out by the black community. They changed and started pushing women up front. It was needed. So now Sandra Bland. Who knows next week? Me? My mama? My sister? My husband. Tired of walking around in fear knowing anything can be done to you and it WILL be your fault. You lunged. Looked like a demon. Whatever. Missed a turn.

[bravenak]

57. I do get it and it's perfectly legitimate. Good night. I'm a fumblethumbs right now anyway.

[Luminous Animal]

46. And I see that as a HUGE problem. Why target human beings before you ascertain they deserve to be a

target? They both flubbed in their own way. But that brings us to my original point. If you want an advocate, you need to converse with that human being that may be your advocate before yelling at them.

"I don't think it was made to where they could meet before hand, they wanted to use the time to get the message about Sandra Bland out in public."

I agree with you about this. But a better strategy would been to let O'Malley's and Sander"s campaign to know this and see their reaction with that knowledge.

You get a whole lot more information about your targets when you've been up front honest about your intention to make them a target.

[bravenak]

47. I think this was about elevating black lives to the top of the agenda. We're dying.

It was more, this is whats wrong, how are you gonna help? They already researched the candidates way before hand. It was not about past records or votes (none of that is saving our children) it was about the future and who will earn our support. They will fight for the person who gets their support. It was about our lives not his campaign. Putting the candidates on notice that we have been jailed and killed and shushed and had our issues push back in preference of what white liberals want. We need our lives more than money. It was about Sandra Bland and Tamir Rice and Trayvon, and Mike Brown and everybody else. We are tired of being treated like animals or slightly intelligent children to be promised shit that never comes.

[merrily]

59. I watched the video and I didn't think Bernie was mad. The media all said he got testy and I didn't

think that either. I thought he said what he said mildly. Something like "I've been fighting for civil rights for 50 years, but if you don't want me here, I will leave. I am not going to outshout anyone."

"If you don't want me here, I'll leave," can be taken in several ways, but I don't think his body language or tone of voice was angry.


If you had flown from D.C. to Phoenix to give a speech, with the understanding that there would be a meeting after it, and you got shouted down instead, how would you react?

Sending an aide may well have been the plan all along for the reason I posted above: Bernie had already flown from somewhere to Phoenix, and had to fly from Phoenix to Texas for an event in Dallas and then an event in Houston the next day. Two events the next day, not in the same city. He probably wanted someone who could stay at the meeting as long as it took. Before anyone thinks "age," let me hasten to add that that schedule would have daunted me when I was 19.

And yes, he got cut off early, but the reports from msm and twitter say he walked out, which was not the case.

Thing is, once someone decides that a person is a certain way, the prism through which he is viewed is set. At this point, I think anything Bernie says or does is going to be scrutinized to a level that other candidates will not have to meet. That maybe no one who isn't perfect could meet.

[bravenak]

61. I'm used to getting crazy shit like nigger shouted at me. I would have done much better.

Used to it. Just like those activist are used to people acting dismissive. It's a perception thing and it's up to him to change it and be approachable.

[merrily]

62. Yes, you would have. Because you have had experience with it and expect it. My point is he had

no reason to expect it and every reason not to.

Just like those activist are used to people acting dismissive.

Who acted dismissive?

To me, going on as if they were not there would have been dismissive. Or worse, having security escort them out or calling the police. I have seen politicians do all those things when someone attempts to disrupt a speech or event.

[bravenak]

63. Gotta expect it running for president.

You guys need to trust your candidate more. He coulda bounced right back without all the drama and mad black folks all over the internet. I know it's not you. Do you know that there are Bernie supporters STILL harassing black folks on Twitter. At this point, they are way more of a problem than Bernies little slip up. This is why i kept repeating for people to just stop. I have never seen anybody win a fight with black twitter. They will make fun of harassers and trolls until they give up and delete their accounts. Saw it with Nicole Sandler earlier this year, she flamed out and went full racist. I swear I really be trying to help when I say this stuff. Not just trying to speak for black people, BUT, tryimg to let you guys know what they are saying. As it was building up, I was like let me warn DU not to do it. They done read it now, so too late. No new member coming over from black twitter. Sigh. Screaming into the wind as usual.

[merrily]

66. I don't know how many events where Presidential candidates are speaking have been interrupted

that way without security stepping in. And, if you have already have a meeting scheduled after the event, I don't really think anyone would expect it.

You guys need to trust your candidate more.

You know I am not "you guys." I am one person trying to have a dialogue on a message board with someone I like and respect. I don't want to be a poster child, to be responsible for everything any other Bernie supporter does, I can't control them. I consider myself lucky if I control myself. The same thing happens on DU. People insult me for things other people posted. I don't know how I am supposed to deal with that, but, more so, I don't know why they are complaining to me instead of to the person who posted it.

You guys need to cut that out. *attempt at mild humor*

You also know that I do trust Bernie. That is one of the biggest reasons why he is my candidate. Is he "a politician, just like everyone else?" Yes, he's a politician and has that in common with all other politicians, but I don't think he is just like all other politicians. Though his new do made me suspicious that he might knuckle under to the imagemakers too easily, just as they all do.

He coulda bounced right back without all the drama and mad black folks all over the internet

. What drama did he create?

This is why i kept repeating for people to just stop

After resisting all along, I finally joined facebook, just so I could like Bernie. So far, I am still resisting twitter. I don't know that I would try to meddle in black twitter, anyway. I believe people should be able to have their own spaces, if they want them. But, as I explained in another post to you on this thread, defending is just something I do, especially if I think additional info might be useful

I swear I really be trying to help when I say this stuff.

I know that, as much as one human can know another from fonts.

Not just trying to speak for black people,

Nothing wrong with that, either, if you feel you have the gift.

[cui bono]

67. Bernie's record is not only be stated to black people, it's being stated to white people too.

It's being stated to anyone who attempts to swiftboat him by making him out to not be good on racial/social justice. Enough is enough. Why is the AA community not leveling the exact same accusations - or 'observations' - at Hillary? She had the same white crowds in the same locations as Bernie yet only Bernie's crowds were pointed out as being "lily white" and only Bernie is being asked "when are the 'minorities' gonna get to play?".

So I'm sorry if you feel insulted by someone repeating a candidate's record, but then how about not ignoring it? In election season repeating a candidate's record is perfectly normal. You need not take it as any sort of insult. The fact remains that it would not be necessary to repeat it if there weren't a concerted effort to swiftboat him. And ONLY him. Surely you saw the infamous vile OP "Not Enough, Bernie". FFS, the infamous poster was purposely trying to link Bernie to overt and truly ugly racism. That same poster has posted at least 2 other smears of Bernie and they get rec'd even though they are complete lies. So the people who rec them DO need to be told something because they are reccing complete and utter bullshit.

No one on here doesn't think Black lives matter and doesn't see the rampant racism that seems to have been let loose since Obama got elected, but Bernie supporters are sick of him being unfairly targeted to the point of a swiftboat attempt.

Hillary is the candidate who ran an ugly race-baiting campaign in the recent past. Hillary had the same white crowds. But only Bernie, who has a fantastic civil rights record is the target of talking points and swiftboat attempts. This makes it pretty clear it's about taking him down in order to get Hillary in, because otherwise you would see the same people who keep posting these smears against Sanders posting the same shit against her. And some of what they post wouldn't be smears, it would be a recounting of the race-baiting campaign tactics she used. Somehow that's just fine and dandy though.

[bravenak]

70. This is the problem. Sigh. I tried. I really tried.

You basically just posted at screed at me doing exactly what hundreds of posts have done the last few days. This is the problem, not Sanders record. It is his OVERZEALOUS supporters who post angry bitter recriminations at black people. We are tired of it. We want to know what he will do in the future in terms WE can digest and take in, not what YOU think we should think is the most important thing to us. Please please believe me that it is his supporters, not him. He can only do as much as you let him. But if black people collevtively feel harassed by his supporters, it's time to back off and let us talk. To each other. Without your corrections and directing how we should discuss him. As of now, we spend more time discussing his rude, condescending, over explaining, overbearing, obnoxious, paternalistic supporters. Please realize this is what I have seen on thousands of posts and tweets made by black liberals. If you do not believe me still, and think you need to explain his record and the situation to me just one more gain, don't. Go look up Imani Gandy on twitter and see how his supporters have been harassing that highly educated woman with lectures about stuff she could write books on. Please go look.

[bravenak]

22. Yeah. So? Our FOUNDING FATHERS were racist slavemasters. I'm used to American racism.

Hate it, but damn damn used to it.

[bravenak]

26. You ain't never dealt with it. You can be all bout it bout it. I have shit to do.

[TDale313]

29. seriously, stop. please.

Bernie supporter here. You're not helping.

[Agschmid]

31. Yup.

[Scootaloo]

32. let me put it to you this way

say you order a pizza, because goddamn it's never a bad time for ham and pineapple.

When the guy arrives, you pay him by giving him a bill that has the face of a slave-owning genocidal maniac of an antisemite on it.

But your pie only costs $16.95

So for change, he gives you three bills with another slave-owning genocidal maniac on it, and a coin bearing the face of a slave-rapist.

You pass the three bills back to the delivery guy while exchanging mild pleasantries about road conditions, and there, done, you have your eight slices of hawaii in a box. let's not even talk about Hawaii right now.

Yup. three dudes whose combined activities make the Nuremburg Trials look like a Judge Judy case dominate our currency exchanges that happen for everyone, everywhere, all damn day.

Racism permeates our national culture like mold permeates a motel mattress.

[Juicy_Bellows]

3. Yep.

Leveymg has a good thread on the catalyst of this meme as it were. All that was needed was a spark and the whole thing lights up. I really don't think Sanders is going to take too bad a blow here though.

[Joe the Revelator]

6. I don't think he is either...its just annoying how transparent it seems to me. nt

[Juicy_Bellows]

9. I agree, Casper the friendly ghost isnt more transparent.

It should be obvious and we should be able to approach it logically but there are too many cooks in the kitchen and they cant decide whether to make poutine or poison.

[MisterP]

83. it even reflects how he campaigns: immediately there was a surge in C-SPAN

videos of him addressing the various dimensions of bigotry as important on their own terms and damning exactly what he and his faction had been accused of neglecting since the Earth was formed

[Thinkingabout]

8. Thanks for providing these links, though Rovian in likeness, it did provide names and information of

great Clinton supporters in the past and now. If this post was intended on smearing the Clintons, it did not work, it only proved the great relationship between the Clintons and poc.

[Joe the Revelator]

10. Ok? nt

[Juicy_Bellows]

14. I think the links are there if one needs context.

The other, more pertinent message is that some people are running with scissors to try and filet Sanders over some serious distorted bullshit.

If i misrepresented the OP i apologize.

[Joe the Revelator]

18. You did not

[2banon]

19. "people are running with scissors to try and filet Sanders over some serious distorted bullshit"

Spot on.

[Juicy_Bellows]

21. Cheers! Thank you.

[beam me up scottie]

87. "some people are running with scissors" DUzy!

And falling down the stairs with them.

[Gman]

37. None of this has a single thing to do with Bill or Hillary

They weren't there. The issue is the way Sanders handled BLM.

[Joe the Revelator]

38. Its not just about netroots.....its about the attacks from this flank since he announced.nt

[Gman]

39. If he were running a decent campaign,

one wouldn't have to wonder if he's a Democrat or Republican for all the lily white faces.

[Joe the Revelator]

40. That's an unfair and a disgusting sentiment.

You should be ashamed of it. Seriously.

[Gman]

42. Rather blunt, yeah but

That's what it looks like. sanders has control over that. Either he doesn't care, his staff is inept or something. I don't think he's racist he's a good man. But that's the way it is.

Just all the more reason I think he's not serious about winning.

[Joe the Revelator]

43. How does he have control over who turns out for his rallys?

And it's not like he's attracting a Palin crowd. He's attracting progressive's progressives as far as I can tell.

[Gman]

50. By early on keep talking about a cross section of issues

That appeal to a much broader cross section of people. Focus groups, polling on these issues. The pros know how to do it. Even recruit and place POC in the crowd to ask specific questions about POC issues. Lots of ways. But you don't run a campaign for the Democratic nomination and let the candidate be seen time after time after time with these 99% white faces. They at least should know this. I think at that the level they do unless they are terribly incompetent. Or, Sanders really isn't serious. I think it's the latter. Nobody st that level is that incompetent.

[cui bono]

69. No, because no one is actually wondering that, they are just saying "lily white" to swiftboat him.

I guess you are one of those swiftboaters judging by that post.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

48. You're right. Rove was famous for turning someone's strengths into a weakness....

I half expect an attack on his vote against the war.

Something along the lines of, "Can we trust him to recognize the danger?" kind of attack.

[Lunabell]

51. Hillary and Bill went there in 2008.

I think she and Bill were low down back in 2008 against Obama.

[George II]

76. Apparently Obama doesn't think so.

[stevenleser]

80. And I think that's the problem with trying to use this. Obama wasn't so offended he didn't hire her.

She served as his direct report in the most important position he had to offer for 4+ years.

The AA community doesn't need to be told what to think about this or anything else. Some folks are over the campaign stuff of 2007-2008, some are not at all, and many are somewhere in between.

None of it is a shield for Bernie or O'Malley or anyone else, particularly about stuff going on right now.

[Moonwalk]

53. So let's get this straight. This is a two-wrongs-make-a-right thread? I mean, if Hilary did...

...make such comments, then how does that excuse Bernie if he's guilty of what he's being meme'd as doing?

We'll grant that it's unfair to go after one without going after the other, but Hilary's wrongs, if viable, don't excuse Bernie's, if viable. Either they both need to be exonerated, or they both need to change their ways or emphasize that they have changed their ways.

Frankly, so long as they have changed their minds and hearts on the subject, I'm good with them; now is now, and I'll take what they are now, not what they were years ago. I also think it'd be awfully nice if we stopped attacking our own. I really don't understand why we can't respect our candidates and support them against the GOP; so far, all I see on this forum is attempts to take them down for the GOP.

That doesn't seem very productive to winning an election.

[George II]

75. If one wants to dig up everything anyone said during the heat of a campaign eight years ago...

....one can find lots of things, true, half-true, or not true. That is the case with just about every politician campaigning for office.

I have yet so see a single person say that Sanders is a "racist". About the worst things I've seen said about him is that he's having a hard time communicating with the black community.

[99Forever]

77. Yes sir.

As disgusting as that is, it describes exactly what's being done.

And those being used, just play along.

Fucking oh well.

[JoePhilly]

78. Its not about Bernie (or Bill or Hillary).

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=467989

[Stellar]

82. Think about it...

some African-Americans are still pissed about that ish.

So lets get this straight...Hillary and Bill made some questionable 'racist' comments in 2008

I wish I could find the clip of Bill when he went on Rush Limbaugh's show to talk about Obama. You know Rush was the king of the teabaggers and he was happy to hear all kind of made up bs Bill was dishing out. Not only that Bill even went on FOX news - - - can't find that either. Olbermann was all over his crap when he did that. Bill was trying to win some of those southern states for Hillary and he did.

[Zorra]

84. Hillary has become insignficant. Too many people don't trust her. nt

[Doctor_J]

85. corporate media is an amazing weapon

And Hillary wields it expertly

[AtomicKitten]

86. Rovian tactic of attacking opponent's strength (agree hugely hypocritical from Clinton camp). <nt>